Just how safe are mechanical brakes ? ? ?

[POLSKA]

I'm 73 and have always been interested in antique cars & trucks.  I've owned a '46 stock Ford PU and a '52 Chevy modified 5 window PU.  I grew up on a small farm and we had a '31 Chevy coupe which had a wagon like bed in place of the rumble seat.   As a kid, it was a lot of fun, however, I can't remember anything about its stopping capabilities.  

 

My question is, just how safe are mechanical brakes considering todays roads and drivers?  In my search for a vehicle to attend meets and go cruising on weekends with the lady, I tend to favor cars/trucks from the mid to late 30's that haven't been modified.   At my age I don't intend to drive over the speed limit and, in all likelihood, I would drive at or below the limit depending on the road conditions.   I live in a moderately congested traffic area but can easily escape into the countryside where there is less traffic.  

 

If I can't find a vehicle mentioned above, another one of my preferences would be buying a 30's to mid 40's car or truck that has been updated with a 12 volt conversion and hydraulic brakes.   Although a nice example of this type is difficult to come by.  

 

Thank you for your interest and I look forward to your input.  

[61polara]

All Chrysler products of the 1930's had hydraulic brakes as well as some of the independents.  GM switched in the mid 1930's but Ford held out until 1940.

[Walt G]

We are the same age. I have owned and driven thousands of miles in pre WWII era cars that had both types of brake systems - hydraulic and mechanical ( cable) brakes. Both are great OR not so great , it depends upon if someone who knows what they are servicing or working on has them adjusted properly. I owned a Packard sedan, a year apart, same engine, one with , one without the juice or cable brakes - both stopped really well but had been adjusted to perfection by someone who really knows what they are doing. 

[LI_BENTLEY]

If mechanical breaks are adjusted right and have the correct lining they are good enough for most conditions.  If you tend to follow too close or drive a little too fast do not drive any old cars.  Also you cannot brake all the way down hills as a newer car can.   Apply brake hard, let off too cool them then apply hard again, do not keep on.

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, LI_BENTLEY said:

Also you cannot brake all the way down hills as a newer car can. 

At least with an old car, one can gear down.  And if it has free-wheeling or overdrive, ensure its locked out before the descent.

 

Craig

[1937hd45]

If everyone is driving FASTER than you, why worry about stopping, at 72 I don't. 

 

Bob 

[Layden B]

I am with Walt on Hydraulic vs mechanical brakes. It is all in the quality and care for the system.

I have heard over the years from several sources that the 1930s Ford mechanical brakes if in good condition and adjusted properly, were just as good at stopping and more reliable than hydraulic. The problem lay in that so many mechanics or owners were not willing to put in the time and expense to rebuild worn parts and adjust them properly. Of course at that time with single master hydraulics if you had a problem it was a REAL problem because it could lead to a loss of all braking. 

[SC38dls]

13 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

If everyone is driving FASTER than you, why worry about stopping, at 72 I don't. 

 

Bob 

Here’s why! And I’m 78 with hydraulic brakes! 
dave s 

Edited February 13, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[1wonton]

One good think about mechanicals is that you don't have to worry about corroded cylinders if you don't drive the car for a long time.

[Brass is Best]

I drive thousands of miles a year on mechanical brakes. Some cars I drive only have rear wheel mechanical brakes. If adjusted properly mechanical brakes work just fine. They worked fine when they were new. There is no reason they cannot work fine today. When mechanical brakes got a bad rap was when shoddy mechanics tried to work on them. You should have no reservations about buying a car with mechanical brakes.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Brass is Best (see edit history)

[John Byrd]

POLSKA, we had an old Anglia that I drove regularly for several years with the mechanical brakes, and no one riding with me ever guessed anything was different. It stopped straight, and in a very reasonable time/ distance. Like the guy said above, good components, proper adjustment and it will be as good as most early hydraulic versions !

[rocketraider]

You need to make sure the person adjusting mechanical brakes understands the use of this:

 

Craftsman Ford brake adjuster tool.

[leomara]

I had a 1933 Chevrolet coupe in high school, drove all over the place, never had any problem with the mechanical brakes.  Like anything else they require proper setup and maintenance when needed.

[Buick35]

Hi,I'm going to be 73 on the 22nd of this month and I have a 35 Buick with mechanical brakes and they stop just fine.I just have to be aware of my stopping distance. I think there should be a 73 club with old car owners.

[JV Puleo]

I'll endorse what Walt and Laydon have said. There is nothing wrong with mechanical brakes...the salient factor is the contact between the tire and the road. The problem, if there is one, is that mechanical brakes HAVE to be adjusted properly and that adjustment has to be kept on top of. Most drivers did not do that and blamed the brakes rather than acknowledge they didn't, or couldn't, set them up properly. Hydraulic brakes are self equalizing and very forgiving (until they fail completely).

Edited February 14, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

2 hours ago, rocketraider said:

You need to make sure the person adjusting mechanical brakes understands the use of this:

 

Craftsman Ford brake adjuster tool.

I have a Ford Motor Company version. It is a great tool.

[Brass is Best]

30 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

I'll endorse what Walt and Laydon have said. There is nothing wrong with mechanical brakes...the salient factor is the contact between the tire and the road. The problem, if there is one, is that mechanical brakes HAVE to be adjusted properly and that adjustment has to be kept on top on. Most drivesrs did not do that and blamed the brakes rather than acknowledge they didn't, or couldn't, set them uop properly. Hydraulic brakes are self equalizing and very forgiving (until they fail completely).

Hydraulic brakes also need to be adjusted to be top notch. It is amazing how much difference proper adjustment makes.

[46 woodie]

The problem with mechanical brakes is that the pulleys, shafts, bushings, rod's, rollers and levers wear out. I have owned Model A Fords since 1968 and they all had mechanical brakes. I can't tell you how many times I have heard a Model A owner say that they did a brake job on their Model A, but it still did not stop quickly, only to climb under the car and be able to move the brake levers a 1/4" because of the slop. A totally restored brake system on a Model A will set you back a couple grand if done correctly and will stop just fine if done right.

[yachtflame]

Somehow your folks survived with mechanical brakes! 

[nat]

     The "parking brake" on a modern car won't do much to stop a vehicle that's traveling at road speed.  With mechanical brakes, the "hand brake, (AKA), "emergency brake" should be nearly as effective as the service brakes.

     My 24' Dodge only has rear wheel brakes which eliminates the complexities of front cables or linkages.  It also more than doubles the the need to pay attention and watch out for idiots. 

     If the service brakes are external bands, don't pull out into traffic after hosing them down or fording a stream.  If all you've got are rear wheel brakes,  carry a good charge of cargo or travel with your three largest friends in the back seat. 

     What could possibly go wrong? 

    

[1937hd45]

On the road brake adjustment? 

[tcslr]

Each are good. Maybe mechanical a bit better than hydraulic - of the era. Early hydraulics had a single cylinder. Failure of the single master - well, no brakes at all versus say not-so-good mechanicals. If my choice are poor versus none, choice. 

[Marty Roth]

8 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

I drive thousands of miles a year on mechanical brakes. Some cars I drive only have rear wheel mechanical brakes. If adjusted properly mechanical brakes work just fine. They worked fine when they were new. There is no reason they cannot work fine today. When mechanical brakes got a bad rap was when shoddy mechanics tried to work on them. You should have no reservations about buying a car with mechanical brakes.

I absolutely agree. over the years, at least half a dozen of our long distance tour-driven cars are/were mechanical brake models, and some even 2-wheel brakes. We never had a problem, and I'm sometimes admonished for "more-than" keeping up with traffic, and /or "Assertive" driving, even in our Brass and Nickel-era cars!

[jdome]

No doubt that todays braking systems with dual master, power assist, anti-lock and forward collision/self driver are better than anything 1930's, mechanical or hydraulic. However, I just looked up the statistics. According to NHTSA 29% of all US accidents are rear end collisions. Its not the brakes, Drivers are the problem.  

[1937hd45]

7 minutes ago, jdome said:

No doubt that todays braking systems with dual master, power assist, anti-lock and forward collision/self driver are better than anything 1930's, mechanical or hydraulic. However, I just looked up the statistics. According to NHTSA 29% of all US accidents are rear end collisions. Its not the brakes, Drivers are the problem.  

Someone is going to become very rich after inventing the system that interrupts the cellphone chat to warn the driver on their phone of their impending crash into the car in front of them. 

[Jim Mead]

I’m all for the 73 club, just wait three years to implement. That said, I drove a Model A to High School (“He’s weird”, do the math), built my 1925ish Ford T from parts and thus have much experience with “single wheel brakes” as well. The Cadillac Single Cylinder  Model T can be harrowing, requiring the foot brake, fully retarded spark in low gear and feathering of the reverse lever to keep her “in hand” under severe declivity conditions. Lots of fun with 4 up. 
 

But none of that prepared me for my first experience with a heavy’20’s car with only rear wheel mechanical brakes and 4.5 inch tires. As proud new owner of a Packard 6,  7 Passenger Touring, I rode her backwards off the trailer not knowing what to expect. Half way down I applied the Bendix foot brakes, with my hand on the parking brake in case. 
Huh - felt just as light, controllable, confident and sure as the three shoe Girling juice brakes on the Alfa Romeo. 
 

I really wasn’t expecting that. Have had no surprises since. Just the usual mindfulness of stopping distances. 

“Ask the Man who Owns One”

[arcticbuicks]

if the car has four wheel mechanical brakes i find them fine,some early cars with just rear can skid or not stop fast enough i find ,i have had no problem,just that most people do not seem to service them right back to the pedal 

[Restorer32]

After spending the last week trying to fix the Antilock Braking System on my RAM pick-em-up I was wishing it had mechanical brakes.  Those I understand.

[Brass is Best]

7 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Someone is going to become very rich after inventing the system that interrupts the cellphone chat to warn the driver on their phone of their impending crash into the car in front of them. 

But it is an important call...

[Matt Harwood]

Mechanical brakes: no fluid to go bad, no seals to fail, no lines to rust, no hoses to rupture, no master cylinder to fail, no wheel cylinders to leak, no moisture to absorb, no periodic flushing of fluid, no contamination of brake pads/shoes, no fluid compatibility to worry about, no boiling fluid that leads to brake fade.

 

The method of force application is largely irrelevant to brake performance. Brake shoe material and tires are far more critical to stopping the car. Mechanical brakes aren't inferior, they're just different. It's another system on a car that most mechanics don't understand so they insist on "upgrading" to a system they do understand rather than fixing the original equipment, as if they're smarter than the guys who designed the car in the first place.

 

As others have said, adjustment and maintenance are far more critical than the type of brakes you have.

[Restorer32]

I was surprised to find that a 1949 VW we recently restored and showed at Hershey had mechanical brakes.

[1wonton]

13 hours ago, nat said:

     The "parking brake" on a modern car won't do much to stop a vehicle that's traveling at road speed.  With mechanical brakes, the "hand brake, (AKA), "emergency brake" should be nearly as effective as the service brakes.

     My 24' Dodge only has rear wheel brakes which eliminates the complexities of front cables or linkages.  It also more than doubles the the need to pay attention and watch out for idiots. 

     If the service brakes are external bands, don't pull out into traffic after hosing them down or fording a stream.  If all you've got are rear wheel brakes,  carry a good charge of cargo or travel with your three largest friends in the back seat. 

     What could possibly go wrong? 

    

Also carry a good change of underwear, just in case.....................................

[Str8-8-Dave]

19 hours ago, Walt G said:

has them adjusted properly.

Walt Gosden definitely hit the key item for mechanicals.  Proper setup and adjustment are crucial. I would add that all the linkages and bell cranks, especially at the cross shaft must work correctly to get the best out of mechanical brakes.  Shoes and drums also have to be healthy, I.E., not worn to limit, free of grease and glazing.   All that said don't expect sport car brake performance from a 4,000-pound car on old narrow design tires and drum mechanical brakes.  Expect longer stopping distances and plan accordingly.  I have a car whose brake shoes were re-lined properly, has clean glaze-free drums and all mechanical linkage works correctly, is properly lubricated, and after 2 good days work following the 31 Buick Spec's and Adjustments manual, is adjusted properly.  The car stops adequately, and it won't be asked to stop from 70mph, ever, on my watch.   The shoes are wearing in, and I have adjusted the brakes up a couple of times already.  

[60FlatTop]

I tend to look at thinks systemically. There are a lot of things working together in most stuff.

 

Back in the early days of computers I always specified a motherboard with a replaceable battery. I never cared that much about the battery. I just knew there were a lot of enhancements to a board that had one.

 

Hydraulic brakes fit that line of thinking for me. If the car has them there are going to be a lot of other good things that come along with them.

[Grimy]

18 hours ago, Buick35 said:

I think there should be a 73 club with old car owners

A club for youngsters?  🙂

[60FlatTop]

10 hours ago, jdome said:

ts not the brakes, Drivers are the problem. 

Back in the early 1980's I had a cubical in an engineering area and the trade magazines circulated from desk to desk. One informative article left a lifelong impression on me.

It was for a fast action factory door. The article stated the the John Deere combine factory in Davenport, Iowa had suffered many collisions with the slow doors as new combines were driven from the plant. With the new fast acting doors collisions were bought to zero, a wonderful investment.

 

I hung a sepia toned copy of that article on the bulletin board.

[Grimy]

Every car in my vintage fleet except the Jeepster has mechanical brakes, and my two oldest cars have 2-wheel mechanical brakes.  Skinny tires limit stopping performance more than almost anything else, whether brakes be mechanical or hydraulic.  Know your car's performance limitations as well or better than its capabilities!

 

The final halt in mechanical brakes is not as "crisp," shall we say, as with hydraulic brakes.  A new mech-brake acquisition needs a full assessment of condition and correction of any tractor mechanic repairs or adjustments in the past.  Position of the levers for greatest mechanical advantage is essential.  When I acquired my 1925 Pierce almost 30 years ago, I had to spend a LOT of time correcting rods that had been bent by previous owners instead of understanding and correcting the position of the levers.  RTFM!  Few if any have self-adjusting mechanisms as on more modern cars, so adjust frequently--it's a 3,000-mile item on my cars' maintenance schedule. 

 

For infrequently driven (vs daily drivers) collector cars, I find mech brakes need far less of my attention than hydraulic brakes.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Grimy
fix typo (see edit history)

[trimacar]

3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

It's another system on a car that most mechanics don't understand so they insist on "upgrading" to a system they do understand rather than fixing the original equipment, as if they're smarter than the guys who designed the car in the first place.

Oh man, is that so true.  Thought process, two wheel brakes no good, go to four, mechanical no good go to hydraulic, drum no good go to disc.

 

My favorite comment about drum brakes is "they fade if you make more than one panic stop".  The comment is that if you have to make more than one panic stop in a very short period of time, the brakes aren't the problem, it's the driver.

 

I've driven a 1911 Buick, rear wheel brakes only, set up by a master mechanic.  Doubt I've ever been able to stop a car as well as that one.  Condition, adjustment, correct brake lining material.....

[Paul Dobbin]

    I'm also a 50 year user of mechanical brakes.   I've driven antique cars in the 48 contigious States, no aqccidents and I can only say it's up to the

    driver to know his equi[ment and adjust his driving to that equipment.   Lots of steep hills and sudden stops require the driver adapting to

    conditions.  Like slowing down, shifiting down and not rifding the brake).  Otherwise mechanical brakes are great if used properly.  I agree with            everthing Walt sai in his post #3.

    Polska,  Mechanical brakes are SAFE!   It's some drivers who are not an blame the brakes.

[SC38dls]

I had a Honda S2000 with about 60,000 miles on it. I took it in for the service call and the comment was the brakes were still in good condition for being original pads. The manager asked me how that could be. My answer - simple I just don’t use brakes I drive the car!  I walked away got in the car and left. The guy was still shaking his head. Drive the car correctly for the traffic and conditions you are in and mechanical or any other kind of brakes properly set up will work fine. Don’t drive correctly and any car will have a problem and it’s at the steering wheel. 
dave s