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Grimy last won the day on June 7 2018

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About Grimy

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  1. The "inverted canoe" roof is characteristic of a Covered Wagon (brand) trailer. Attached is a 1937 Covered Wagon magazine ad.
  2. I grind my teeth when "cylinder(s)" is abbreviated "CLY" rather than "cyl." Do you pronounce the full word "KLY-inder"?
  3. The last 500 S80 cars in 1927 had the aluminum head (and rods) used for the S81 1928 cars, so a 1927 S80 with aluminum head may well be totally authentic and certainly need not be worthy of "horror." When the market demands, aluminum heads for S80 and S81 cars will be produced, just as they were 20 or more years ago for 1936-38 8-cylinder engines which carried factory aluminum heads. As almost all of us here know, aluminum heads are subject to deterioration if owners are not careful to keep cooling systems clean and well protected against corrosion; in the presence of dissimilar metals (iron in blocks, copper in radiators, aluminum in necks, etc.), the aluminum is the sacrificial material. The S80/S81 is a good, inexpensive "starter" car that is a CCCA Classic. I agree with Ed, they're not for people who want to go fast, but neither are Packards of the same vintage (Ed, your prejudices are showing).
  4. An issue with any engine substitute in a Series 80/81 is that there is but 1/4-inch clearance between the rear of the block and head and the engine side of the firewall, meaning that there is a very tight longitudinal fit. Torquing the back row of cylinder head nuts is a real adventure. Further, the long crank handle snout of the 80/81 engine protrudes through the sheet metal apron below the radiator, meaning that the sheet metal apron must be detached from the front frame horns to allow the cast aluminum crankcase to be removed from the chassis, posing a problem for front sheet metal treatment for any substitute engine. The cast iron cylinder block is relatively easily detached from an in situ crankcase in the event that bearings do not need to be addressed. Despite all the negativity here, in my experience most cracks in S80 heads can be successfully pinned, but don't use the DIY kits--have it done by professionals. On the other hand, the one-year only S81 engine, and the last 500 S80s of 1927, are equipped with cast aluminum heads which have not survived nearly as well as the iron heads. I'll wager a guess than almost half of the S81s extant currently wear iron heads from 1925-27 S80s. A facility in El Paso has offered new-manufacture aluminum heads to fit both 80s and 81s, but I do not know of a single one that has been actually delivered in the past 12 years despite their requirement for up-front payment--consider that a word of warning. The networking available within a single-marque club is essential when you need parts or reliable service vendors in this kind of situation. @58L-Y8 Sorry, I can't compare the Packard Single Six (later, just Packard 6) and the Series 80/81. I did haul a Packard 6 parts stash for a friend 15 years ago, and helped him decipher the Perrot front brake controls, but he sold the 1927 runabout before I got a chance to drive it. The Packard 6 came first, and even we Pierce folks agree that PAMCC was attempting to copy the Packard and gain market share and cash. As I've previously mentioned, initially the DeLuxe S80 was $650 more than the Packard 6, body style for body style, and thus not truly competitive on price. Recognizing this, the PAMCC introduced the $650-cheaper Coach series in only 2- and 4-door sedan variations. My own opinion is that the "cheapened" features of the Coach series saved the company no more than about $100 per car, meaning that PAMCC was taking large profits from the DeLuxe series.
  5. I agree. I think most of us who have been around for awhile make offers based on if the engine doesn't run decently, it will need a full rebuild--that's the only safe way unless it's a car you just have to have for sentimental or other reasons. The only way that seller could achieve 75% of his asking price is to cure the head problem first.
  6. Thanks, Bernie. I won't see the Godfather until this time next year. Get him to bring you to our meet in Lancaster PA next June.
  7. Ed, I agree with you! But we have different "business models." You operate a business and sell with a guarantee, and have warehouse space to pay for. Greg and I are amateurs and do the onesies-twosies, don't actively seek out cars to break up for parts, and we acquire excess to our own needs primarily on the basis of opportunity and close proximity. In the case of the engine I mentioned, I happened to find a CL ad where the car was already broken up--100 miles away--which a couple of young guys bought out of an estate, an unfinished just-begun restoration. We loaded my long bed dually above cab height, strapped everything down, and brought it to my place (overstuffed already). So this was quick-turn merchandise, and we made a call on the way home to an experienced, knowledgeable friend in PAS who we knew was looking for a block. The friend made a 12-hr run to pick up the accurately-described bare engine (carb and primer cups and already gone, no water pump). For space reasons, we wanted the big hunk of metal out of the way. Yes, that engine block is in his runabout now. You deserve the compensation you get for having a large inventory, accurately described, and which has in many cases been cleaned, magnafluxed, etc. Because "time is money" has never been more valid than now, you are entitled to get strong prices, especially for contracted-out restorations where nationwide searches are costing the owner $100/hr or better, or the owner values his/her time to the point that he/she doesn't need to haggle over every last nickel. . Greg and I are the dinosaurs of the hobby, pretty much doing the parts exchanges like they were done 50 years ago among hobbyists who have networked. And networking, at a bare minimum joining a marque-specific club and engaging with the ads and the knowledge transmitted in the technical pubs, is especially important for orphan cars like Pierce-Arrow. BTW, I sent the water pump, four Houdaille cast iron shocks and links, and some smalls to Greg in a single US Postal Service large flat rate box weighing 56 lbs! I told the clerk that in this shipment I was finally getting my money's worth! And I greatly appreciate your offer of your "not for sale" stuff if I needed it. Along those lines, I have a local friend who's doing a super-cheap refurbishment of a "field-find" (worse than a barn-find) Series 80 with sidemounts (first 80 I've seen with those as factory equipment) on a less-than-bare-bones budget, and Greg and I have individually sold him stuff at deep discount because it's a worthy project and he's a good guy.
  8. I'll sell YOU a S80 head for $2K, Eddie! Greg and I sold an entire engine 3-4 years ago for less than that with one phone call. Build *quality* of the series 80 is just as good as the senior cars. They are 45 mph cruise with the 4.45 (most common) differential, 36-37 mph with the deepest 4.88 set. The Company specified gear ratios by the selling territory, so SF and Denver cars got the 4.88s. I fit a Mitchell 26% OD with my factory 4.88s so can cruise comfortably at 50 now. Cruising speeds are probably not much different from other cars in their price range--as you know from your Packard experiences. An afterthought about the subject car: Seller says cracked head but I'd do a compression test to confirm, and ask whether head had been torqued before this happened. Again, if the center row of head studs has been changed to 1/2-inch, flee!
  9. I've owned a 1925 S80 sedan since 1994, and owned a S80 coupe for 21 years, so for once I may have more info than Ed... 🙂 Heads can be pinned (Lock-n-Stitch method, see their website), depending on where they are cracked. Heads are tough to find, as Ed says, about $750 for an uncracked one. A design defect, if you will, is that these heads from the factory had (arguably) a too thin mating surface to the head gasket--and we should expect that heads have been planed during valve jobs at least some times over the years, with the effect that the mating surface becomes very thin and not good at heat dissipation. On these engines, it is essential to spend an hour of tedious work with a dental pick removing the crud buildup where the studs exit the deck BEFORE installing a new head gasket. A more critical thing to look for, IMHO, is whether the center row (front-to-rear) of head studs is still 7/16. Often these heads have been overtorqued, pulling the threads out of the block where they enter the water jacket, and the studs are then drilled out and replaced with 1/2" studs. If the center row studs are 1/2, run away, because even a bit of overtorquing can cause a crack into the cylinder walls, especially if the car has been substantially overbored over the years. Because the listing seems to have no photos of either the interior or the engine compartment, I can't comment much on the asking price except to say that IF (1) the engine were running satisfactorily -- and we know that isn't true, and (2) there's is a decent, serviceable original interior, the car should be worth perhaps $15K as a driver. I note that it is a Coach series (less expensive then the DeLuxe series, which was $650 more at the time) with squared vs radiused quarter windows, single-piece windshield, wood-grained steel (vs. mahogany) window mouldings, and lesser upholstery.
  10. Yes, probably the 144" wheelbase. It has the long front door but short rear door. If both doors were short, it would be the 139" wb; if both were long, the 147" wb. However, it could be the 147" wheelbase with a deeper secluded rear compartment.
  11. One more point about Bedfords: they are dimensionally larger, both in diameter and cross-section, than of-the-era tires of the same nominal sizes. That's a cheap partial-overdrive effect, but usually the nominally correct size Bedfords will not fit in your sidemount wells or under your sidemount covers. It is frequently necessary to drop a size (e.g., from 700 to 650) for fender-mounted spares.
  12. I think that code is a serial number rather than production date. My 1930 Pierce roadster came with a set of 700x18 Bedford blackwalls installed when the car was restored in 2000, and they have given superb service. They run cool and show less than half wear after 10,000 miles. I liked them so much I bought a set of 700x17 Bedfords in 2009 for my 1934 Pierce, now with a little more than 10,000 miles and again more than 50% tread left. The 18s seem to have a bit more road noise than do the 17s. They are HARDY: In the first 1,500 miles I had two flats at speed (55-58 mph) on the 17s, most caused by the reproduction 17" tubes splitting at the bonded seams which were nowhere near any potential friction point. I replaced ALL the tubes with 16" light truck radial tubes and have never had a flat since (knock on wood). No damage to either tire. I like the pie crust sidewall and diamond tread pattern as of-the-era. I will happily buy another set of Bedford tires but will not use the "repro" tubes offered by the sole U.S. vendor of Bedford tires.
  13. Now that you're living on a peninsula, you don't have to go very far east or west to be in the drink.....
  14. Captain Whittell's house, Thunderbird Lodge, is on the EAST side of the Lake, Ed, but far west of you! 🙂
  15. Part of a mid-1980s Hemmings ad that I have kept in the "fresh memory" part of my brain as the best example of its genre: "Engine disassembled for your inspection..."