Str8-8-Dave

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  1. Hi Bob; Thanks for your response to my questions about Marvel tuning. You made quite a few points in your post, some of which I found useful and some I respectfully disagree with. Again, this is meant to be a RESPECTFUL response, please don't take it any other way, these are just my opinions and the reasons I hold them. I value your input and appreciate that you took the time to comment. On the topic of just blocking off the heat riser system: I'm not going to just block off my system after spending a lot of time doing an authentic restoration. I believe my system works correctly, it doesn't leak exhaust or vacuum. Every last piece of the linkage is accounted for and adjusted so it works properly. In the heat off position you can lay your hand on the exhaust pipe that connects the manifold damper to the riser body after the engine runs long enough to open the radiator front shutters and the riser casting is cool until engine compartment heat takes over. I absolutely agree with your point that this system can cause trouble if it leaks but I actually think it helps these engines run better at low engine speeds because it keeps fuel from condensing out of the fuel air mixture in the lengthy plumbing from carburetor to combustion chamber. In warm weather it probably doesn't contribute anything when running down the road at 35mph or better. For me, 80 percent of it's value is it's authentic portrayal of what the designers intended and since it works correctly it may contribute some value in making the car run well, especially at low engine rpm. It's interesting to note that manifold heating systems are still in use today for emissions and low speed drivability. It's also noteworthy piston engine aircraft use carburetor heat with manual control to this day to prevent carburetor icing and many small aircraft still use Marvel carburetor and heat control systems. Your statement on retarding the spark: I hadn't thought of that but it's probably a convenient way of reducing engine vacuum and rpm, therefore manifold velocity and if you can get a setting that will run fairly well under that condition the mixture will probably be quite well adjusted for normal spark advance and timing. Trying to adjust idle mixture at very low rpm is also probably why the 1931 Specifications and Adjustments manual and the marvel Carburetor and Heat Control as used on 1931 Buick both state the heat should be in the full on position while making the adjustment. The lower the manifold velocity the more chance for fuel to condense out of the fuel air mixture. About the wood float: I consulted with Jon, AKA Carbking of The Carburetor Shop on material selection for my float. He told me not to try to make a reproduction of my cork original from cork available today because most of it is recycled by gluing cork bits back together and he stated emphatically "That stuff doesn't float" and then suggested use of balsa. So I looked up flotation properties of virgin cork, not recycled cork, and balsa and balsa actually floats better than the cork stuff does. What I did was make a dimensionally correct reproduction of the original cork float from a piece of solid balsa, then sealed it before assembly with 3 coats of butyrate dope which is hot fuel proof, not affected by gasoline, alcohol or nitromethane, then drilled the mounting hole for the float arm screw and coated the screw with dope, assembled it, then brushed the areas where the mounting hardware is exposed with more dope. Then I tested it's flotation and it's clearance to the float bowl casting carefully. I did have a flooding issue, first with the original float, then again with the balsa float but that turned out to be a light film of corrosion on the interior wall of the float valve seat. Since that has been cleaned off and polished there is no flooding. I can run the car in the garage with the float bowl cover removed and that float is always up and there is no fuel leakage. The only commercially available replacement float available for 31 Buick is sold by Bob's Automobilia and it is made of nitrophyl plastic. I had really bad experience with floats made of that material in 1969 when my then brand new 1969 Pontiac Ram Air IV GTO coupe caught fire shortly after being started in my garage. That car had about 11,000 miles on it at the time and if I had the car back today in the condition it was in just before it burned it might auction at Barrett/Jackson for around $250,000.00. The car had the original GM 4MV Quadrajet carburetor on it when it burned. My insurance company repaired the car and paid for everything except the Quadrajet carburetor which they deemed was the cause of the fire. I recovered the carburetor and took it apart and tested the float and it sank in a coffee can of gasoline. I had another one of those floats fail in the car before I got rid of it but was fortunate enough to not have it catch fire again. I exited the freeway on a cold winter day and it tried to stall on me and I smelled fuel so I held the brakes with one foot and kept the throttle open enough to keep if from stalling until I got where I was going. I checked that float in gasoline and it sank so I replaced it which fixed the problem until I sold the car. Later I learned the nitrophyl material was not closed cell and it relied on an applied coating to prevent fuel saturation which apparently was prone to failure. The info you provided about float level and venturi valve fitment: That was good information and I intend to verify both items. Classic and Exotic Service in Troy, MI sells a reproduction venturi valve. Your last point about advancing timing might be useful but I'm going to proceed with caution. I'm not convinced that retarded timing causes black sooty plugs for one thing , that's more likely a fuel air mixture issue. Simply advancing the timing without knowing how much total timing advance the engine sees is risky to it's health. I'm also curious about your conclusion that old low octane fuel is less volatile than modern higher octane fuel when I know for a fact the higher the octane rating the higher the flash point temperature of the fuel and the slower the flame propagation. High octane fuels were developed to prevent detonation or preignition in high compression engines. The 31 Buick engines were all around 4-5 to 1 compression ratios and today's gas lawnmowers have higher compression than that. A bigger concern for modern higher octane fuels in our low compression engines is completing the combustion cycle before the exhaust valve opens to avoid burned exhaust valves and high exhaust temperatures due to fuel still burning after the exhaust valve opens. I try to run only ethanol free fuel and as far as I can tell the ethanol free stuff is only available in 84 or 85 octane which is if anything, too high octane for our low compression engines, the flame propagation rate is low and it is clearly aimed at higher compression engines According to the 1931 Buick specifications and Adjustments manual my 60 series engine is allowed a maximum of 34 degrees total timing advance at 3,000 rpm. That was a fairly good total advance specification for passenger car engines right up to the 1980s after which cars all had knock sensors and engine control modules that can think and make adjustments a lot faster than I can. Buick didn't put any more timing marks on flywheels than necessary to accomplish correct initial timing and point synchronization in the dual point distributor supplied. For 60 series you get an 11 degree BTDC mark for cylinder #1 and a synchronizing mark for cylinder 6 90 degrees later on the flywheel. I won't try to put much more than the specified total of 34 degrees advance in the car. The problem then becomes how to time to 34 degrees total advance without a timing mark at 34 degrees BTDC. There's no room to put a degree wheel on the front of the crank. Instead I figured out to closely calculate the 34 degree point on the flywheel using the teeth count on the starter ring gear. Conveniently the specs and adjustment manual states my 60 series ring gear has 123 teeth. So if I divide 360 degrees by 123 I get just under 2.9 degree tooth spacing. If I then subtract the 11 degree initial timing from the 34 degree total timing I'm targeting I need to move the flywheel ahead another 23 degrees or about 8 ring gear teeth. So I can then start from the cylinder one 11 degree mark and advance the flywheel 8 teeth and I should be very close to 34 degrees BTDC. Having positioned the engine at 34 degrees BTDC and working with an already synchronized dual point distributor I can time for 34 degrees BTDC statically by holding the centrifugal advance mechanism in the fully advanced position and rotating the distributor to get the primary point to just break. This might be a safer way to see how much more timing advance can be safely put into the engine. Thanks again for your input... Dave
  2. Buick spec's and adjustments manual says the oil filter s system should send 1 quart per hour at 25mph. That doesn't sound like a lot but if you are getting that much oil to the rockers it should be pretty evident. If in doubt start tracing your oil supply backwards from the oil filter discharge connection at the side of the cylinder block. Loosen it while the engine is running and see what you get. If you have good oil there and little flow at the rocker arms you probably have blockage oil passage in the block to the head, the head and or rocker shaft. and stands. If you have little or no flow at the head fitting what do you get at the other end of that brass line at the filter? Still nothing check the filter in fitting. If still nothing how about at the branch fitting at the side of the crankcase that has a small line going to the oil pressure gauge and another that connects to the line that feeds the filter. Still nothing, remove the branch fitting and inspect it for blockage. You won't want to run the engine with the fitting removed or you will pump a lot of oil onto the floor unless the supply from the pump is blocked. Whatever you do DO NOT replace the branch fitting with a standard brake line tee or other arrangement. That branch fitting should have the Buick logo cast into it and it is a calibrated orifice to allow 1qt/hr@25mph and it prevents loss of oil pressure to the mains and rods. One other observation, you said you converted to a spin-on filter. Most spin-on filters have a one way check valve arrangement built in so when you shut the engine off the oil doesn't all drain back to the oil pan resulting in a dry start every time. This makes the filter a one-way device and the intake is the series of holes around the outside and the filter discharge port is the center port. If you plumb it backwards you would only get the amount of flow that would leak past the check valve that the oil pressure is holding shut. Make sure you have it plumbed correctly. The other item at risk with no oil flow is the front ball bearing on the generator. That line next to the oil hole you have your finger pointing to drips overflow oil from the rocker shaft into a passage leading to the generator bearing. The rear one has an oil cup that needs occasional attention. Let us know what you find... Dave This is the calibrated fitting and it is still screwed into the cylinder block adapter fitting. Note the Buick logo. Here are the places to check for oil delivery in order. This is my 31 8-66S which came to me with the most amazing Rube Goldberg oil filter setup complete with a plumber's nightmare of lines and unauthorized fittings where the Buick oil metering fitting was supposed to go. I tore it all off, made my own oil lines and installed a spin-on filter system disguised as an original cannister filter from Bob's. The oil filter arrangement and unauthorized fitting(s) extraordinaire that came with my car....
  3. This is for someone who has good knowledge of the Marvel TD-2-S 2 barrel updraft carburetor used on 1931 Buick 60 series cars. My car has a carefully restored sound heat riser that is adjusted correctly and has good leak free tubes and nice tight throttle shaft pivots. With the heat control in the off position you can put your bare hand on the outer exhaust transfer pipe and the riser body is cool even after running for 15 minutes. I had trouble with flooding. I built an exact replica of the original cork float except the material is balsa which has slightly better flotation performance. It is thoroughly sealed with fuel proof butyrate model airplane dope and has excellent flotation. But even though I carefully ruled out float bind or interference or with the bowl cover or fuel saturation I continued to have flooding incidents that included having raw fuel discharge from the bowl vent while the engine is running. I finally removed the float valve and seat and looked at the 2 parts with my watch making magnifiers and found 2 defects. 1: The interior wall of the seat that the needle valve inserts into was coated with gray corrosion which I polished off with Happich Simi-chrome polish and some Q-tips to avoid removing metal. I also observed wear marks on the 4 sharp corners of the needle valve and very carefully filed those down just flush with the wear marks. When I started I could cause the float needle valve to drag or stick as I inserted the needle valve into the seat tube with slight side pressure. After correcting the defects the needle slides smoothly with no drag or sticking with light side pressure applied to the needle valve. I installed the float valve back in the carburetor and the flooding has been eliminated. Valve lash is set to 0.010", 0.002" to the loose side so if the head gasket settles a bit no valve clearance falls to less than the minimum 0.008". The distributor was restored completely and has new points, condenser, rotor cap and wires and plugs are fresh. Full advance timing was set carefully with a volt ohm meter to 11 degrees BTDC for cylinder #1 and synchronized to fire cylinder #6 11 degrees BTDC at the "Syn 6" mark on the flywheel. The fuel source is 94 octane methanol free fuel in a clean outboard tank. It delivers fuel to the inlet side of the original AC fuel pump. There is absolutely no debris in the float bowl of the carburetor. The Marvel Carburetor manual describes adjustment for this carburetor as a process of setting the air control valve knob correctly. It suggests setting the air control knob even with the end of the ratchet spring as a starting point. Then it says to put the heat control in full on position and start the car. After a brief warmup it says to adjust the air control knob for a smooth idle. After the engine finishes warming up it says to retard the spark, idle the engine, turn the air screw out until the engine hesitates, too lean. Then it says turn the air screw back in 3-4 notches at a time until the engine runs smoothly. To verify the adjustment it says to open the throttle a small amount and let it snap back to idle. If it stalls it's too lean. If it rolls it's too rich. If it continues to idle smoothly you are done. I did all the steps as the Marvel carburetor book describes EXCEPT I did not retard the spark. Not sure why yo would set the carburetor all up to run with the spark retarded when it will never otherwise be run with the spark retarded. After I got a nice idle I tried opening the throttle and letting it snap back. I found if I revved the engine a bit it would spit back thru the carburetor. Then I tried setting the air valve knob richer a few clicks at a time until I eliminated the carburetor sneezing under engine acceleration. While the car still idles acceptably it is obviously too rich at idle, I get black soot out the tail pipe at idle. How can I lean the idle mixture while maintaining rich enough mixture to prevent carburetor backfire? The restored heat system on the bench An really good dimensional copy of the original cork float was made of balsa, sealed with butyrate fuel proof dope. This picture shows it in a float bowl full of fuel. Red areas on this marked drawing show where the wear points are on the needle valve. Areas above the wear points were dressed down even with the wear marks to eliminate the step. This combined with polishing the inside of the seat tube eliminated a pesky flooding problem. This is a picture of the air control knob set to a mixture that is just rich enough to avoid carburetor backfire when opening the throttle. This shot of the tail pipe was taken after the carburetor was adjusted to eliminate carburetor backfire and after the engine idled. It is a sooty black indication of a too rich mixture.
  4. I second that emotion. Both doors on my 31 8-66S 2dr coupe were sagging. The hard rubber rectangular shims used are installed between the top chassis rail and the lower wood sill of the body. They are available in 1/8" and 1/4" thickness and have a hole in the center that the body bolt must pass thru. I shimmed mine and got really good results. My doors both sagged at the rear enough to make them drag on the sill moldings. I loosened all the bolts and add shims to the #2 body bolt which is pretty much directly under the A-pillar or hinge pillar if you like. You can find my post which has pictures and descriptions at https://forums.aaca.org/topic/309205-my-1931-buick-project-the-saga-begins/ I have 3 pages of banter going on there related to my project but lucky for you the door alignment post is second from the top of pg. 1 Good luck and let us know how you do... Dave
  5. I agree the original thermostat was probably a 160 or 180, changing the thermostat probably won't fix it. Thermostats only control minimum temperature, not maximum temperature. The rest of the cooling system and engine condition such as cooling capacity of the radiator(is the new radiator thermal capacity equal to or greater than original?), water pump condition, cleanliness of the water jacket and exhaust leaks into the cooling system via the head gasket or a cracked head or even cylinder block are the items that will affect maximum temperature. If the car spark-knocks on acceleration the timing could be too far advanced or if this were a high compression engine the fuel octane level could be too low. If it pops out the exhaust the timing could be too retarded or the fuel octane could be too high. If you are getting a normal temp reading at 35mph and the gauge is accurate and the rest of the system is healthy the 195 thermostat probably would not make the car overheat at idle or higher speeds. Something else is wrong. Is there foam in the radiator or are you getting heavy white deposits on plugs? Is anti-freeze coolant getting into the oil making it milky? If running straight water do you get water beads by wiping the dipstick with clear cellophane? These are all signs of exhaust leaking into cooling system. If it is losing coolant out of the radiator, I.E. radiator boil over, is the radiator cap the correct pressure rating and is it working? The boiling point of water goes up about 3 degrees per PSI of pressure in the cooling system so straight water wouldn't boil until 242 degrees with a 10 psi pressure cap.
  6. Anyone know where I can buy either stainless or chrome 1/2" 13 thread per inch x 7" long carriage bolts or honest to goodness bumper bolts with 6" long un-threaded bodies and 1" thread at the end? I've tried Bolt Depot and McMaster Carr and even though the McMaster catalog says they are only threaded 1" the bolts I got had 5-1/2" of thread. I will use them if I cant find anything else but correct bumper bolts would only have 1" of thread on the end, rest is straight unthreaded shank. Any leads highly appreciated.
  7. Anyone know where I can buy either stainless or chrome 1/2" 13 thread per inch x 7" long carriage bolts or honest to goodness bumper bolts with 6" long un-threaded bodies and 1" thread at the end? I've tried Bolt Depot and McMaster Carr and even though the McMaster catalog says they are only threaded 1" the bolts I got had 5-1/2" of thread. I will use them if I cant find anything else but correct bumper bolts would only have 1" of thread on the end, rest is straight unthreaded shank. Any leads highly appreciated.
  8. I suspect if you got your drafting board out and laid out the opening of the housing casting over the flywheel, then developed the maximum possible parallax by drawing lines from the index mark on the housing tangent to the top and bottom edges of the housing opening closest to the flywheel and intersecting the flywheel then mathematically calculated the possible error in degrees by dividing the distance between the points where the lines of parallax intersect the flywheel into the circumference of the flywheel you would find a possible error of +/- a degree or 2. You would have to sight the cylinder 1 timing mark at one of the worst possible angles then sight the cylinder #6 timing mark at the opposite worst angle to make that large an error in point synchronization and assuming you viewed both marks from the same position you could only be off on absolute timing by half the possible error you developed mathematically. If you are really worried about parallax effect on absolute timing why not make a pointer that can be attached to the housing aligned with the index mark on the housing then bent into the opening on the crank centerline so it is within a 1/16" of touching the flywheel? That would eliminate the parallax issue altogether. If you take reasonable care to stand so you are looking from the same place each time you line up the marks you will be close enough on point synchronization even if you are a little off on the absolute timing. There is probably enough lash in the gears, shafts and bearings involved to cause a larger error in absolute timing than the parallax will cause.
  9. Hello to all; The next project I decided to work on was the rumble lid. I brought the car home from Cary, IL in April of 2018 with a warning from the seller that the hinge adjustment on the lid was unknown and he strongly recommended I place a piece of card board or other protective material between the lid and the lower panel before attempting to open the rumble lid lest I damage the paint. Because of that warning and because there were many other more pressing projects to work on I never tried opening the rumble lid until a couple of weeks ago. As it turned out the bottom of the lid did hit the top lip of the lower panel on the car but with a little careful coaxing I got the lid opened without any paint damage so the assessment and fit corrections could begin. The lid really had a couple of fit problems, one being the interference to the lower panel, the other being differences in lid to body gaps and when the lid was closed the top left corner of the lid was floating about 1/2" high over the gutter on the left side of the car when the right side of the lid was closed against the gutter. The lid was also missing the latch and handle and the corner bumpers which are screwed into a couple of iron straps that attach diagonally to the wood under the rain gutter in the body opening and the striker was poorly attached. I had 2 finish painted iron straps that came with the car and I never understood what they were. They turned out to be the diagonal straps the lid corner bumpers screw into. I didn't have the bumpers and was preparing to make them when I got a tip that Gary Wallace Early Chevy Parts in Missouri reproduces the bumpers for early Chevy cars so I ordered a set from him. I also learned from my friend Dave39MD's pictures of his original Buick 8-66S rumble lid bumpers that my car was missing some upholstered triangular trims designed to hide the iron bumper brackets. I was able to make those after understanding their size, shape and how they attached to the bumper brackets. I tried numerous adjustments to just correct the lid interference to the lower panel with no luck. There are 2 oval holes in the hinge castings that the 1/4-20 lid attaching studs pass thru which allow 1/4" of movement of the lid fore and aft. Once that adjustment is made there are 4 other countersunk round screw holes in the hinge casting that are used to lock the adjustment in place. The adjustment range of the oval holes was inadequate to correct the lid to lower panel interference so I tried elongating the oval holes which also proved to be unsuccessful. Someone from Buick pre-war technical thread I started to gather ideas about how to fix the fit of my rumble lid stated he was able to correct the fit of his rumble lid on an Oldsmobile body by loosening a nut that held the hinge pivot to the side strap and adjusting the pivot location. Unlike other GM car lines of the times there is no adjustment arrangement for the hinge pivot location on 31 Buick cars as the pivot was welded to the steel side strap. I read in a Buick Historic Alliance reproduction of a cross carline Fisher Body manual that if the lid drags on the lower panel a series of wood wedges could be installed between the lower wood bar and the lower panel to force top of the lower panel out. I tried inserting a wood wedge between the lower wood and what I thought was the lower panel but I found out the lower panel was not directly attached to the lower wood bar, it is crimped over a knife edge panel which was screwed to the wood bar in many places before the finish painted lower panel was installed. I thought of several methods of moving the top lip of the lower panel out including installing a pressure beam over the lower wood bar to bend it out, fabricating a cam hinge pivot screw to replace the concentric shoulder screw used originally to move the lid forward away from the lower panel. I finally thought of force fitting some taller wood uprights between the lower cross member and the lower wood bar to tip the wood bar out and the knife edge and lower panel with it. I made up a couple of ash uprights to install next to the original uprights that were about 1/4" taller than the original uprights and that seemed to work. I was able to tip the top lip of the lower panel out just enough to get the lid to clear. Next I tackled the problem with the high upper left corner of the lid in the closed position. A more careful look at the lid height revealed that while the upper left corner of the lid was 1/2" high the entire left side of the lid from the hinge pin forward was actually high, it was worst at the upper left corner then tapered down to about 1/8" high at the hinge pivot. I was able to lower the lid a bit at the hinge pin by removing a little wood from the hinge area of the lid frame but that did very little to correct the high top corner issue. Correcting that all fell into place with installation of the latch, adjustment of the striker height and installation and adjustment of the corner bumper assemblies. Once these items were addressed the lid closed tight at the latch which pulls the lid down onto the right corner bumper and puts just enough preload on the right side of the lid to force the left side of the lid down against it's corner bumper. It does all this without slamming the lid, the lid can simply be moved toward closing until it's balance shifts and it closes with a nice ka-plunk under it's own weight. The left corner of the lid at that point is closed with slight pre-load on the bumper, the corner of the lid cannot be pushed further closed. Dave... The initial problems with the rumble lid fit were interference or drag of the rumble lid on the lower or valance panel lip and.... the top left corner of the lid would not close down flush with the upper panel on the outside or against the gutter below the lid. Here is a picture of Dave39MD's right side lid bumper in his original 31 Buick 8-66S. This view under Dave39MD's corner trim shows the end of the iron strap the bumpers screw into. A pair of these bumper straps came with the car in a box and I didn't recognize what they were until I Saw Dave's pictures. The corner bumper assemblies came from Gary Wallace Old Chevy Parts and are reproductions he sells. This is a picture of one of the hinges. They offer limited lid adjustment at the slotted holes and are then locked into position by installing wood screws in the round countersunk holes. The hinge pivot locations are not adjustable because the pivots are welded to the side straps. I thought of a couple of schemes to get clearance between the rumble lid and the top lip of the lower panel out after figuring out the method of inserting wood shims to correct the drag issue described in a 1931 Fisher Body cross carline manual could not be used. The first idea was to install a pressure beam over the lower wood bar per the sketch below. Another idea was to fabricate a cam screw to adjust the position of the hinges to move the lid forward away from the lower panel but that could be an expensive machine shop job. I finally settled on the 2 uprights pictured below which are force fit between the lower crossmember on the floor of the compartment and the lower wood bar just above the new uprights and bow the top of the lower panel out to clear the lid. To correct the high top left corner I tried removing a bit of wood from under the hinge on the left side of the lid wood frame. This had very little effect on the high corner but did correct the height at the hinge where the lid was about 1/8" high. The real fix for the high corner was installation of the latch assembly shown below along with.... proper height adjustment of the striker plate the latch works with to pull the lid down onto the corner bumpers. I made a couple of steel shims to get the striker mounted low enough in the car to pull the lid down into a range where the corner bumpers could level the lid. Here is a bottom view of the corner bumper mounting strap installation. After installing the latch and striker with the shims the lid would not latch. However once I adjusted the bumpers a bit the lid closes with just enough preload so there is no clearance between the lid and the bumpers and it closes by just letting it go and having it close under it's own weight. Now the lid closes level on both sides. The last piece of this project was making the upholstered corner trims. Chevy cars of this era used metal triangles to trim the corner bumper brackets. I asked Dave39MD to measure his triangles which is nearly impossible installed. He gave me the dimension of one of the sides and I used a piece of cardboard and some trial and error to come up with the likely final shape. Dave39MD also stated he did not believe his car's original triangles were metal and we discussed and figured out the substrate for the Buick's triangles was likely trim panel board. That's what I went with and I contact cemented the vinyl upholstery over the trim board. The last pictures are of the final product.
  10. Hi Bill; I actually got some reproduction brackets and installed a Bob's Automobilia filter cannister. Thanks for your generous offer... Dave
  11. Hi Chris- Great pictures, description and tip on sources for the bumpers. The pictures here are of another Chevy Dave 39MD sent. Note they are different in that they used sheet metal with a folded rib with short pieces of 1/4" bar stock welded under the triangles which were then drilled and threaded for the bumper studs. While it looks like in these pictures the triangles are spot welded, my Buick triangles hang from bolts in the upper back rails at 3 points. Chevrolet was a leader at GM for improved mfg. processes which probably explains the differences... Thanks again Chris Dave
  12. Hi Chris- Yes, that was the approach for the dragging lid. The hinge wood removal was to try to level the lid. Every time I do a project on the car I discover parts that are missing. This time it is the triangular corner irons and the lid bumpers that attach to the irons. Dave39MD sent pictures of his original parts so I know what they look like. The iron plates are easy to make but the bumpers are not so easy. I'll figure it out. Thanks for your input to this thread, your suggestion about the knife edge helped me understand the construction and figure out a fix. Dave
  13. So I win- I think. I talked about doing a cross car beam and screwing it to the lower bar. The idea was to force the center of the knife edge and the lower panel attached to it out by either tapering the cross car added beam creating a high spot in the center which would push of the lower bar or doing a series of shims between the added cross car beam and the lower bar. I finally realized if I could lift the bottom of the lower bar it would rotate the knife edge and lower panel rearward. I made some cardboard patterns and devised a couple of crutches that are a force fit to go between the lower wood sill and the lower rear bar. I used my belt sander to ramp the crutches so they could be rotated into position and used them like sisters to the original upright posts the lower bar sits on. Gorilla glue makes wonderful lubricant while still wet allowing me to easily rotate the crutches into position. I also talked about making an eccentric pivot bolt for the left hinge but I don't have a lathe or any welding equipment. I still think that is a valid idea but it's a machine shop job. For now I settled on the crutches and removing some wood on the rumble lid's wooden frame under the left side hinge. The goal was to get the left side of the lid to sit down a little lower when closed. The results were I now have a lid that closes without rubbing and the left side of the lid does sit a bit lower but I didn't take much wood off and similarly the lid still sits a little high on the left. Eventually I may explore the cam screw arrangement. I also got the latch and deck lid handle along with the strike installed and they all work. I discovered the triangular corner braces and adjustable lid bumpers are missing from the top corners of the opening so will have to figure out what those consisted of and either find or make a set. Thanks for all the input on this... Dave I dreamt up these nifty crutches to force the lower bar up and the lip of the lower panel rearward in car. The crutches are a force fit between the lower sill and the lower bar. I removed some wood from the lid frame where the hinge mounts to try to resolve the high lid. It helped, the left side of the lid does sit lower, but I didn't take much wood off. I installed a reproduction latch and deck lid handle and got the original striker for the latch installed. Conspicuous by their absence are the 2 corner braces the rumble lid bumpers are installed on.
  14. Chris- I absolutely agree. If I do anything with the lower bar I will attach a cross beam in front of it screwed at the ends to the lower bar and either contour it to make it bow the lower bar out slightly or shim between it and the lower bar. I identified the spot that needs to move out very slightly and it is just left of center of the valance panel. Another idea I am noodling rather than removing wood from the rumble lid frame under the left hinge is to make an eccentric hinge pivot bolt for the left side. This would allow the pivot center to move down and forward in car and could be locked in position with the locking set screw on the threaded flange of the hinge bracket. Doing something like that made from scrap bolts without modifying the original pivot screw would be reversible and therefore harmless. The area where the lid rubs the top edge of the valance panel is defined by the far left and right edges of the tape. This was determined by propping the lid open t the point of contact and sliding a 3x5 card in along the gap between the lid and valance panel. One idea to push the valance out slightly would be to add an ash stringer (poorly represented by the blue artwork, the red dots are supposed to be the attaching screws) across the interior of the lower bar attaching it at the far left and right ends. It could be either tapered to bend the lower bar and push the valance out or it could be a straight piece attached at the ends and shimmed locally to push the bar and valance out. Th left side of the lid is high and even with the hinge adjusted to the end of the elongated slots it is slightly rearward on the left top. One way to correct the left side lid height would be to remove wood from the lid frame under the hinge mounting area to let the lid down, then file the adjustment slots to allow the lid to be moved forward. A less destructive idea would be to fabricate an offset hinge pin bolt which could lower the lid and move it forward. It could be locked into the final adjustment with the set screw on the hinge pin boss. If nothing else my artwork was better in this picture...
  15. I can tell you they did on mine. There is no clearance above the lower wood bar but if you reach under it there are 2 pieces of sheet metal with a good 1/2" gap between, one is the knife edge and the other is the painted valance panel. The left side of my lid continues to be high. I had it out of the car all day and did a minor cleanup of the wood where the left hinge attaches to the wood structure of the lid. Not being able to adjust the hinge pivot bracket on the side bracket leaves me with little choice but to take more wood out from under the hinge. I give up for tonight...