Would you go electric?

[Jubilee]

  Electric conversion on old car/truck/tractor would be insane IMO.

What would be the point?

  I did recently add a 1000 watt 48 volt electric kit to a 35 year old

drop frame ladies bicycle for my wife. It was a challenge. Luckily, I have the shop, tools, welders, and can still see well enough to get it done.

   She’s eighty and hasn’t been able to get her on her Trek for a couple of years and has been riding the old drop frame. But, her mileage had fallen off to 6-8 miles recently. ( I’m still riding 20).

  Now, with electric power, when and if she wants it, she’s good for 40-45 miles at 15-20 mph. I have governor set at 20. (Top setting is 45 for heavens sake) Pedal assist or full electric, her choice. It’s a blast for her.

   My apologies to the AACA for bringing an electric bicycle into the forum.

 

[mike6024]

I actually would if an ideal conversion were available
I have been given a golf cart to drive around the property where I happen to be working now. So if my car had an electric motor I feel I have some sense of what it would be like. I would be missing the shifting, sound, building rpm, but that is alright.

I would not put the body on an EV chassis. I'd want the steering, suspension, braking and etc to remain the same. All that would change would be the acceleration.
 

[Bryan G]

For a "modern" vehicle? I can imagine that someday, if apples to apples (as far as purchase price & driving range) I might go for one. Our only late model vehicle these days is my wife's and I doubt she'll buy a new one again. My plans are to run 30-90 year old vehicles for the rest of my life (honest.)

 

As for the conversion of a collector car: to me, the engine is very much the heart of the automobile. Change that and you change the whole character. I could never so much as own something with a transplant (like a SBC, etc.) The exception I would consider would be a vehicle where the engine was missing or truly beyond repair, and a replacement was unobtainable. Even then I think I'd prefer some oddball transplanted gas engine.

[plymouthcranbrook]

I cannot imagine converting an old car to battery power. That said should this ever become widely available while I am still able to drive/or still alive I would take a hard look st it.

 

 

https://www.toyota.com/mirai/

 

[junkyardjeff]

I would consider a newer electric car to drive around town but never do a conversion.

[J.H.Boland]

There's a guy north of Toronto that installed electrics in a nicely restored 1918 490 Chevy. He's been trying to sell it for ages for $32,000 CDN ! To see it, go to Kijiji, item # 1573582812. Seems like a waste to me. It's likely a lot faster, but you still need to stop it !

[TerryB]

No use going faster if you can’t stop.  Most modern electric cars use regenerative braking, the electric motor becomes a generator, to slow down.  Maybe this conversion is more like driving a big golf cart.

[Cadillac Fan]

Yes.  Looking at the electric f150. 

[John348]

3 hours ago, J.H.Boland said:

There's a guy north of Toronto that installed electrics in a nicely restored 1918 490 Chevy. He's been trying to sell it for ages for $32,000 CDN ! To see it, go to Kijiji, item # 1573582812. Seems like a waste to me. It's likely a lot faster, but you still need to stop it !

 

not like they are easy to stop to begin with

[MotiveLensPhoto]

I don't see if for my antique car. I don't drive it enough to make it worthwhile. Either my next daily car or the one after will be electric. I have business in rural Virginia and I'm concerned about access to charging when I'm out there. I'll find out next week. Probably getting a tesla unless someone comes out with a decent sized one that isn't a pickup.

[Matt Harwood]

Love our Audi E-Tron. Insanely fast and it does require some acclimation. No shifts feels weird, but it accelerates like a rocket sled and doesn't let up. So smooth that you completely misjudge speeds on the highway. You know how you settle into a pace that "feels" about right? I did that the other day in the E-Tron and looked down to find I was going 98 MPH. All without any noise or vibration. Extraordinary. I look at it as a comfortable luxury SUV that gets OK fuel economy but as a perk, the gas tank magically fills itself every time I park it in my garage. Our electric bill last month (the first full month of having the car and the outlet in the garage) was about $30 more than the same month a year earlier. Can you drive your daily driver all month for $30? I can.

 

Would I convert an old car to electric? No. As others have said, that's not really the point. I like the sound and feel of an old engine doing its thing. Replacing it with technology kind of removes the whole reason for having an old car in the first place.

And no, the big, bad [political party you hate] isn't going to force you to drive an electric car or convert your old cars to electric power. Do you honestly think the oil cmpanies are going away without a fight? Seriously?

[pkhammer]

  So just imagine the conversion has been done to your '40 Ford, Tri-Five Chevy, Model A, or whatever it is that you own. You get in and back silently out of your driveway. You select drive and mash down on the accelerator and silently zip down the street. No engine noise, no shifting, no double clutching, no smell of gas, oil or grease............it just doesn't even sound like an experience I would enjoy not to mention the originality of the car has been destroyed.

   Ok, MAYBE convert a Volkswagon Beetle, Corvair, Falcon or a Valiant. One of those might make an acceptable candidate now that I think about it or better yet an electric Pinto, Vega or Gremlin for a daily driver.

[wws944]

As big a fan of EVs as I am, I would have a hard time wanting to convert an older car.  Though it seems relatively easy to mount an electric motor to the front of a conventional transmission, that is only the start of the problems.  You have to add 1000 lbs of weight to the car for the batteries - which of course requires changes to the entire suspension, braking, steering, etc.  Speaking of brakes and steering, they then need to be converted to an electric system.  And if it is a more modern old car, an electric air conditioning system needs to be devised and so on.  It would be a never ending project.

 

I know a fellow who converted a Porsche 914 to EV.  He has been working on it as a hobby for over 10 years.  I was amused at his cabin heating system.  He found a couple of womens hair driers that would work on DC.  Wired them in series to match the battery voltage and they then blow hot air through the HVAC ducts.  (No need for cooling as he can just lift off the roof.)  He also did a lead-acid to Li-ion battery conversion a few years ago - which added to the costs, but also gave him a lot more range and usability.  While it is quite driveable, it is definitely still a "work in progress"...

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, pkhammer said:

 

   Ok, MAYBE convert a Volkswagon Beetle, Corvair, Falcon or a Valiant. One of those might make an acceptable candidate now that I think about it or better yet an electric Pinto, Vega or Gremlin for a daily driver.

Oh sure, pick on the smaller cars! You would be amazed at the number of Corvair electric conversions that have been built (or started...) over the years. Starting with GM's Electrovair, then Electrovair II. Just buy an electric and leave the Corvairs to sound right!😆👍

 

Here is a recent conversion tale:

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,1121996,1121996#msg-1121996

[wws944]

1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said:

Oh sure, pick on the smaller cars! You would be amazed at the number of Corvair electric conversions that have been built (or started...) over the years. Starting with GM's Electrovair, then Electrovair II. Just buy an electric and leave the Corvairs to sound right!😆👍

 

Here is a recent conversion tale:

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,1121996,1121996#msg-1121996

 

Besides his suspension being a mess, he has a belt driving an alternator for 12V?  LOL!  That is what DC-DC converters are for.

[ply33]

2 minutes ago, wws944 said:

 

Besides his suspension being a mess, he has a belt driving an alternator for 12V?  LOL!  That is what DC-DC converters are for.

I discovered the DC-DC converters being made for golf carts recently. An organization I am with has a remote solar powered weather station and our transmitter got fried by an over voltage condition due to how the solar controller and batteries are configured. Easiest solution was to drop in a golf cart DC-DC converter that takes an input voltage between about 10v and 50v and outputs 12.8v with way more wattage than we need. Marvelous little device, apparently intended to run 12v headlights on a vehicle class that has a wide range of battery voltages.

[OHMJR]

Or, when the electric goes out.....just nothin' better than a full head of Steam!

 

 

[wws944]

56 minutes ago, ply33 said:

I discovered the DC-DC converters being made for golf carts recently. An organization I am with has a remote solar powered weather station and our transmitter got fried by an over voltage condition due to how the solar controller and batteries are configured. Easiest solution was to drop in a golf cart DC-DC converter that takes an input voltage between about 10v and 50v and outputs 12.8v with way more wattage than we need. Marvelous little device, apparently intended to run 12v headlights on a vehicle class that has a wide range of battery voltages.

 

Yes - all modern EVs, and hybrids for that matter, use a DC-DC converter to go from the 3-400V traction pack to power the 12V accessories (and maintain the 12V battery) like the alternator in an ICE car would.

Edited August 13, 2021 by wws944 (see edit history)

[Buick35]

I might consider it for my 74 MG B but not my 35 Buick unless GM wants to do it for free.

[Walt G]

Only if forced to and all the gasoline stations closed up. Electric bills are high enough as it is, hot summer - so a/c, winters I have an electric heater in the garage to keep the temperature moderate so not to see the lacquer on my Buick and Packard crack.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Maybe I would buy a new electric and probably will if the product evolves on the track that it is.

 

Retrofitting on a collector car is not for me.

 

[Pfeil]

14 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Do you honestly think the oil companies are going away without a fight? Seriously?

Take a look at the major oil companies portfolios. They are into all energies imaginable and in-imaginable. They will survive with no problem whatever happens. 

[Lahti35]

No, It would kill the thrill for me. Only way I would enjoy an electric antique is if it was electric when built.

 

Daily driver is a different story but there is a long way to go to a stable grid for charging and plentiful resources for all those batteries needed. Current manufacturing cannot meet current demand let alone a global scale thirst for EV's. 

[Paul Dobbin]

As I mentioned once before,  my friend Ted Holden had a 1917 Milburn that we considered running in a electric car rally down the east coast of Florida.   His 14 Great American Races and my 11 races made us competitive.  However the Milburn was way to slow and the range was way to short.  That's a car I would consided putting a modern electric motor in.   Probably like putting a Corvette engine in a Model A Ford as far as AACA is concerned, but it would be fun.

[plymouthcranbrook]

8 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said:

As I mentioned once before,  my friend Ted Holden had a 1917 Milburn that we considered running in a electric car rally down the east coast of Florida.   His 14 Great American Races and my 11 races made us competitive.  However the Milburn was way to slow and the range was way to short.  That's a car I would consided putting a modern electric motor in.   Probably like putting a Corvette engine in a Model A Ford as far as AACA is concerned, but it would be fun.

I think(knowing almost nothing about older electrics)that in some cases changing a motor or going to a modern battery system is certainly understandable to make the car more usable. What is the point of having it if you for all intents and purposes have a mobile lawn orniment?

[Bleach]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:08 PM, pkhammer said:

better yet an electric Pinto, Vega or Gremlin for a daily driver.

At least it won't explode if you get rear ended in one. 😜

[wws944]

4 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

As I mentioned once before,  my friend Ted Holden had a 1917 Milburn that we considered running in a electric car rally down the east coast of Florida.   His 14 Great American Races and my 11 races made us competitive.  However the Milburn was way to slow and the range was way to short.  That's a car I would consided putting a modern electric motor in.   Probably like putting a Corvette engine in a Model A Ford as far as AACA is concerned, but it would be fun.

 

A fellow named Raymond Carr drove a 1912 Baker Electric from Astoria, Oregon to Atlantic City, NJ in 1995.  I managed to contact some of his family a couple years ago, and they were kind enough to send me a copy of a booklet he had published describing details of the adventure.  He bought the Baker from the Harrah Collection in 1986 and did a lot of restoration work on it.  The Baker's electrics were pretty much stock, though he did have the original motor rewound for a higher top speed of about 30 mph.  Batteries were modern, for 1995, lead-acid.  He left Astoria on May 28th, and arrived in Atlantic City on July 3rd - mostly driving on U.S. 30.  Had a crew following him with a generator for charging in the outbacks.

 

A year later, Carr drove a 1909 Stanley Steamer from Anchorage, Alaska to Bar Harbor, Maine.  And in 2000, he did an "around the world in 80 days" trip in a 1939 Ford. They sent me booklets on those trips as well.  Fun reading!

[OHMJR]

On 8/12/2021 at 8:00 PM, wws944 said:

As big a fan of EVs as I am, I would have a hard time wanting to convert an older car.  Though it seems relatively easy to mount an electric motor to the front of a conventional transmission, that is only the start of the problems.  You have to add 1000 lbs of weight to the car for the batteries - which of course requires changes to the entire suspension, braking, steering, etc.  Speaking of brakes and steering, they then need to be converted to an electric system.  And if it is a more modern old car, an electric air conditioning system needs to be devised and so on.  It would be a never ending project.

 

I know a fellow who converted a Porsche 914 to EV.  He has been working on it as a hobby for over 10 years.  I was amused at his cabin heating system.  He found a couple of womens hair driers that would work on DC.  Wired them in series to match the battery voltage and they then blow hot air through the HVAC ducts.  (No need for cooling as he can just lift off the roof.)  He also did a lead-acid to Li-ion battery conversion a few years ago - which added to the costs, but also gave him a lot more range and usability.  While it is quite driveable, it is definitely still a "work in progress"...

Guess the one thing I've learned and been taught in life is "electricity", (AC or DC), it has it's advantages and faults as well. Case in point, (thank God for Big Ben alarm clocks) power is out in the morning, no lights, no heat...5 oil lamps get lit for showerin' and shavin' and a log or two in the stove for heat. As far as vehicles go, there just isn't a charging station deep in the Gila Wilderness, places I enjoy beyond civilization.....They'll just have to impress me beyond fossil fuel....

[charlier]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:58 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Our electric bill last month (the first full month of having the car and the outlet in the garage) was about $30 more than the same month a year earlier. Can you drive your daily driver all month for $30? I can.

 

Okay Matt, I'll bite, How many MILES did you drive in that month for $30? 

 

 

 

 

 

[wws944]

6 hours ago, charlier said:

 

Okay Matt, I'll bite, How many MILES did you drive in that month for $30? 

 

I can't speak for Matt, but in my case $30 of electricity (using PG&E off-peak rates) would propel my Model 3 about 650-700 miles.  That is not counting the fact that I have a solar system on my roof which provides "free" electricity during the day.

 

My off-peak EV-A rate is $0.18366/kWh - so $30 would buy 163.3 kWh.  My car shows a lifetime energy usage of 244 Wh/mile (4.1 miles/kWh).  Doing the math, 163.3*4.1=669.5 - let's call it 670 miles.  More around town, and less on the highway.

Edited August 16, 2021 by wws944 (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

Lots of early electric cars had range of about 50 miles.   That means less than 25 miles out and a maybe we can get home for

a re-charge.  Not for me.   My dentist has a 10 year old Tesla and his family lives 150 miles away.  Says he might make it but always stops for a re-charge on weekend trips home.   Not for me either.   I asked if he was going to buy another one or a new battery,

"Undecided",  I'm not!

[TerryB]

If it indeed is a 2011 Tesla it’s a roadster that used the Lotus body.  Newer Tesla models have much more battery range.  The roadster has become very collectible.

[wws944]

20 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

With some exceptions. Electricity, regardless of how it is generated, is destructive to the environment. But, in my opinion, electricity generated by a hydrogen fuel cell would be the most practical, and least harmful to the environment. Admittedly, the safest hydrogen cell is still considered extremely dangerous. But, hydrogen, extracted from the Martian atmosphere is still the most viable energy source for any future bases established by humans on Mars.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/hybrid-technology/hydrogen-cars.htm

 

H2 won't be viable as a transportation fuel for a very long time.  I doubt if it will ever be viable for passenger cars.

 

H2 cars, such as the Mirai, are EVs in the sense that they have electric motors and a battery pack.  It is just that the battery pack is fairly small, and the FC converts H2 for the bulk of the power.  A pure EV has a much larger battery pack and no need for the added complexity and inherent inefficiency of the FC.

 

Where does H2 come from?  The page you linked to briefly mentions the problem in the last couple of paragraphs.  Most commonly from methane (natural gas - CH4) reformation.  However it is more efficient, with less pollution, to burn the gas directly in a modern combined cycle natural gas plant and use the generated electricity to directly charge a battery.  Same with electrolysis - which is a very energy inefficient process.

 

Someday, maybe decades from now, we may have enough surplus energy from solar cells and other renewables that we can use the excess 'inefficiently' to replace existing production of H2 (for ammonia, fertilizers, steel making, and such).  And then after that, it may make sense to use additional excess for transportation.  Perhaps air travel first - where weight of large battery packs really matters.  Again, I can't see where it will ever be viable for passenger cars.

[wws944]

1 hour ago, Jack Bennett said:

I agree with all you’ve said, and I do welcome your comment. I designed, and could build, a ceramic cased, self reciprocating electric motor which would power a car with no external power requirements, ever. But the process of manufacturing this motor would produce a carbon footprint which would equal driving your 350ci Chevy for many years. So, I’ll just keep working on my old cars, and driving my fossil fueled KIA. My post was more a thought stimulant than a documentary based on scientific data…..thus my closing comment on using hydrogen fueled equipment on Mars. If someone took a few minutes away from CNN, MSNBC, NBC, FOX, Afghanistan, Haiti, COVID, falling hair and a sputtering prostate, to read the post and check the link, the effort I put into the few minutes it took to post it was a complete success.😃

 

  Well, the topic has been debated endlessly for years on a couple of threads at the Tesla Motors Club forum.  I'd provide links, but most here would probably rather use the time enjoying their old cars.  I also have a friend who is leasing a Mirai.  So I can claim to have ridden in one.  Not sure what he will do when his lease is up.

[huptoy]

Now it is popular to use electricity with batteries to save costs.  The state of Ohio has a  license plate surcharge for electric vehicles to make up for lost fuel tax to pay for road maintenance.

[wws944]

On 8/9/2021 at 4:41 PM, Laughing Coyote said:

We all see it and hear it all over the news and on the web.  The big blue marble is getting hotter and the weather is going crazy.  I know a lot of us car guys and gals have put in a lot of time, money and sweat into our cars.  My question is:  If a company came up with an affordable aftermarket electrical system that can be adapted to fit your car would you swap out the engine and go electric?  Just curious what the responses would be.  Also how would the AACA change if more of the older vehicles were converted over to electrics?  

 

 

Youtube personality Bjorn Nyland, in Norway, does a lot of videos reviewing and testing EVs.  Basically an EV hasn't been tested until Bjorn does his famous banana box test, 1000 km test, Arctic Circle test, etc - along with some scenic Norwegian countryside views and junque food reviews along the way.

 

He recently visited some folks in Sweden who had converted a 1966 Chevy Impala convertible to EV using a Tesla Model S rear subframe and a battery pack of their own design.  It looks like a very clean conversion.  I think the video Bjorn made is pretty good, with lots of the right questions asked, and technical details.  So maybe some folks here would enjoy viewing it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8McUViPbh6M

[Brass is Best]

Electric cars have no soul. They are an appliance. 

[Peter Gariepy]

45 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

...cars have no soul. They are an appliance. 

 

99% of the population agree.

[1935Packard]

I'm the odd man out on this, at least on this forum, as my next daily driver car will definitely be an electric vehicle.  I think they're a major improvement over gas cars, primarily for environmental reasons but also for their low cost of driving and maintenance. It's hard to imagine converting one of my existing classic cars to electric, but I am pretty interested in my next antique car being one of the pre-1930 electrics. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

6 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:

I'm the odd man out on this, at least on this forum, as my next daily driver car will definitely be an electric vehicle.  I think they're a major improvement over gas cars, primarily for environmental reasons but also for their low cost of driving and maintenance. It's hard to imagine converting one of my existing classic cars to electric, but I am pretty interested in my next antique car being one of the pre-1930 electrics. 

 

Not the odd man out.

Like you, if I buy new again, it will be electric.  Nothing to do with their mode of power (well, except they're darn fast) :), and everything to do with cost of ownership (including environmental).