Would you go electric?

[auburnseeker]

So did they get the person responsible for the dealership in Kenosha, I believe it was?  After last summer the jails should be full beyond capacity.

[John348]

1 hour ago, Brass is Best said:

 

It all smells of socialism. 

 

So does SOCIAL SECURITY, but I bet more then half of this members of this site have no problem collecting that, what happened to Would you go electric?

Edited October 26, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I don't think we are going to see EV semi's here in British Columbia anytime soon. The hills on all the highways are almost beyond belief unless you have seen / driven them first hand. This isn't Kansas.  The hills give even the most powerfull diesel's a real work out. Motorhomes burn to the ground going up the worst of the hills with reasonable frequency . The heat generated catches things on fire. The odd Semi as well. An EV semi would need a battery almost as heavy as the payload.

[John348]

1 minute ago, 1912Staver said:

I don't think we are going to see EV semi's here in British Columbia anytime soon. The hills on all the highways are almost beyond belief unless you have seen / driven them first hand. This isn't Kansas.  The hills give even the most powerfull diesel's a real work out. Motorhomes burn to the ground going up the worst of the hills with reasonable frequency . The heat generated catches things on fire. The odd Semi as well. An EV semi would need a battery almost as heavy as the payload.

 

Tesla has been working on Semi's for awhile. Terry B' son has been working on that project, and another company Lordstown Motors was working on it, as well among others. That is where the money will be. Maybe not in the mountains yet but in the flatlands it will start, maybe even Europe, short 300/250 mile drop and return with a fresh charged return unit 

[mike6024]

13 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

EV semi would need a battery almost as heavy as the payload.

The weight of the battery is a major factor. I've always said the great game changer would be if you could have a 3rd rail like with BART where the moving vehicle is supplied with power. Completely impractical apparently!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhIMtkYX1ew

 

[mike6024]

Might be practical on the flatlands.

[Avanti Bill]

I doubt there would be any EV's if it were not for the subsidies from the feds and states.  This is political as anything posted to the forum.

[8E45E]

54 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Funny how now we are talking wildfires, power tools, trucking, semis, regulations and organic TP.   If thats not off topic I don't know what is.

Oh. wait.  Electric semi trucks are a thing!

 

https://www.tesla.com/semi

 

A little behind schedule, but coming soon.  https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37143659/heres-why-the-tesla-semi-will-be-delayed/

 

 

 

That has the appearance of an updated 1974 Paymaster.

 

[John348]

26 minutes ago, Avanti Bill said:

I doubt there would be any EV's if it were not for the subsidies from the feds and states.  

 

Same could be said for fighter planes, submarines, bridges, tunnels, hospitals, powerhouses, stadiums, railroads, highways, and on and on and on, this just happens to be the narrative used by certain people that don't want to accept a particular item. Imagine if we had this same negative attitude about the space program? As the Russians were trying to develop a space program? 

What happened to we can figure this out and make it it work better mentality? Why do we insist on saying it won't work? I don't understand this negative outlook for no reason.

Yes there are subsidies, and without mortgage most people would not own a house. Those industries employ lots of people and create lots of jobs, who buy lots of goods, who pay lots of taxes, (more then millionaires) who all feed the machine. So as a retired union electrician I am more then happy to own/lease an electric car      

Edited October 27, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Who's going to pay for all new EV Semis?  Who's going to foot the bill from China to procure the rare earths?  Make them cheaper and better than the most potent Diesel Semi and they will sell themselves free of any subsidies.  That's the way the market is suppose to work,  not by regulating out existing proven practical options. 

That regulating thing coming back again.  I seem to see a common thread here. 

[John348]

4 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Who's going to pay for all new EV Semis?  Who's going to foot the bill from China to procure the rare earths?  Make them cheaper and better than the most potent Diesel Semi and they will sell themselves free of any subsidies.  That's the way the market is suppose to work,  not by regulating out existing proven practical options. 

That regulating thing coming back again.  I seem to see a common thread here. 

Did they tell you that at the last shareholders meeting? 

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

All evident to the contrary. (source)

So how does one get an accurate emissions output of a forest fire?  I imagine the type of trees,  shrubs underbrush and dead growth,  number of cars,  type of cars,  type of building materials consumed are near impossible to accurately estimate, much less even get a remotely close figure on. 

Even our cars,  the computer controlled ones, are still a guess,  a much narrower window but they don't operate with zero tolerance for the parameters to set off a check engine light so it's still a range.  Are they reporting only the high or only the low.  That alone could probably drastically change the results.  

[auburnseeker]

Just now, John348 said:

Did they tell you that at the last shareholders meeting? 

?????????????

[mike6024]

California’s 2020 Wildfire Emissions Akin to 24 Million Cars

California’s 2020 wildfire season thwarted the state’s fight against climate change, spewing enough carbon dioxide into the air to equal the emissions of millions of passenger vehicles driving over the course of a year.

Those roughly 9,600 fires burned nearly 4.2 million acres, killed 31 people, and emitted an estimated 112 million metric tons of carbon dioxide, according to a California Air Resources Board report released Dec. 31. The number is akin to the greenhouse gas emissions of 24.2 million passenger cars driving in a single year, according to a calculator from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

And the emissions figure is expected to increase as the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection calculates final wildfire acreage from the end of the year.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/californias-2020-wildfire-emissions-akin-to-24-million-cars

 

‘Off the chart’: CO2 from California fires dwarf state’s fossil fuel emissions

It’s estimated that the 2020 California wildfires have already generated more than 91 million metric tons of CO2 (as of Sept. 15), according to data from the Global Fire Emissions Database (GFED). That’s about 25% of the annual emissions from fossil fuels in the state, Niels Andela, an atmospheric scientist from Cardiff University in the U.K., told Mongabay.

“This year is really, really off the chart,” Andela said. “We estimate … that this is the highest year we have on our record, at leas

https://news.mongabay.com/2020/09/off-the-chart-co2-from-california-fires-dwarf-states-fossil-fuel-emissions/

 

[John348]

Randy,

You have to lighten up, just for your own sake, it's not healthy.   If it is cost prohibitive and it is for commercial use companies are not going to buy them. UPS posted their largest profit ever today, and they announced that they are going to increase their prices by 6%. The technology is going to be in the cost. This country has the most brilliant minds in the world at the best engineering universities in the world, and they are working on it, we went from putting a monkey in space for 15 minutes to three men to moon two landing and all three back in 7 years but everyone was behind it, not defeated before we started 

[1937hd45]

22 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

So as a retired union electrician I am more then happy to own/lease an electric car      

Ok, You are the expert I can ask for an answer. At 71 changing a light bulb is the end or my electrical knowledge house electricity and car electricity. If an electric car crashes into a tree and the four passengers are trapped inside, would a good Samaritan be electrocuted before the electric car starts to melt? What does the fire department use to put out the fire? 

[Frank DuVal]

4 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 Don't worry once they get the majority electric they will start tightening the screws but it will be too late as there won't be an alternative.  Competition is healthy.  Once you can only get one particular type of something then the free market is no longer in control.  

Wait, which "side" are you on? This argument firmly says EV and ICE are the way to go! And, a plug in Hybrid is perfect, as you have two sources of energy, no monopoly!👍

[John348]

1 minute ago, 1937hd45 said:

Ok, You are the expert I can ask for an answer. At 71 changing a light bulb is the end or my electrical knowledge house electricity and car electricity. If an electric car crashes into a tree and the four passengers are trapped inside, would a good Samaritan be electrocuted before the electric car starts to melt? What does the fire department use to put out the fire? 

 

I am not a retired Fireman. Police Officer, or EMT just so you know I am NOT TRAINED  IN THAT FIELD AT ALL AND NEVER CLAIMED TO BE I don't know how to extricate people, that is not part of my job description. I know on my 2019 GMC 2500 Diesel there are all kinds of notes and tags telling where the Fire Department should cut the cables. The first thing I would do is call 911. I just could not stand there and watch someone die. If it is melting as you suggested then it would indicate that it is plastic and non conductive. The first thing I would do is to get air into the car and the would be to get a window broken I do have an impact tool in my console

 

To answer your question I don't know what the Fire Department uses, because I was not a Fireman

 

I don't know what your point is, if your looking for an 'ah ha' moment or just a 'joke' either way I don't get it

[Frank DuVal]

Fire Departments have been training for battery powered vehicles since the first Insight rolled off the dealer's floor. Isn't that close to 20 years training? Same 300 to 400 volts power. Just more amp-hours today.

[auburnseeker]

Last time someone told me to lighten up on here I got a 1 week suspension,  so that's not going to help,  letting you stew for over a week and be cut off from friends and cars.  yeah that's great therapy. 

 

I'm sure they told George Washington and Ben Franklin to lighten up,  it's only some taxation.  Just relax.  

Those not vigilant to what is going on around them, will wake up one day to no freedom and no cars.  I'll do my part to maintain both or go out trying to protect the right to enjoy both for anyone that so chooses to. 

[1937hd45]

23 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

 

To answer your question I don't know what the Fire Department uses, because I was not a Fireman

 

I don't know what your point is, if your looking for an 'ah ha' moment or just a 'joke' either way I don't get it

 

The point of asking was to maybe save someone from being electrocuted in the act of saving someone in a burning electric car after it crashed, or are they so perfect they don't crash? I'll let the guy with the cell phone call 911, sorry I showed some concern. 
Bob 

[John348]

4 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

The point of asking was to maybe save someone from being electrocuted in the act of saving someone in a burning electric car after it crashed, or are they so perfect they don't crash? I'll let the guy with the cell phone call 911, sorry I showed some concern. 
Bob 

 

Well,  Bob what would do? I never claimed to be an expert in firefighting, and I never said they never crashed, you were not showing concern you were trying to be wise guy and you got called on it

Edited October 27, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Millions of acres burned in forest fires every year is nothing new, easy to research that it’s been going on for a long time.  It’s just sensationalized more now.

 

Other difference now is more subdivisions in wooded areas, thus more houses burned and more deaths.

 

Also, a LOT of “acres” reported burned are just scrub brush, not Bambi filled forests…. Same with Federal land oil drilling, it’s often scrub brush areas which no one wants, which is why it’s Federal property in the first place.

 

Solar panels have been improved tremendously, but not everyone has 30 or 40 thousand dollars laying around to put in a system, regardless of payback.

 

I’m mostly worried about electrical military aircraft, in dogfights all those long extension cords will surely get tangled….

 

So many things to worry about….

[mike6024]

To answer Bob's question, you theoretically could get electrocuted by touching a crashed car. The voltage is so high they do not want firefighters cutting any cables because they could get electrocuted. If they need to cut open a crashed car to get someone out, they need to avoid cutting where any main power cables run. And of course if one of those cables were shorting (making live contact) with the steel body, then the whole thing is dangerous. So just stand back and watch. Use your cell phone to take a video so you can post it online.

 

These voltages obviously would kill you:

 

Tesla Model S and Model 3 batteries run at nominal voltages of about 375 volts and 350 volts, respectively. (Published figures vary slightly.) The Porsche Taycan's batteries run at 800 volts nominal.

[mike6024]

With nearly $3 million in federal money, Santa Rosa CityBus plans to buy 4 electric buses, in 1st step toward a zero-emission fleet

 

So how many tons of CO2 will this "save" and how does that compare to that released by fires? These buses are really costing $1 million plus each. The federal free money doesn't cover the whole purchase price.

[John348]

17 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

To answer Bob's question, you theoretically could get electrocuted by touching a crashed car. The voltage is so high they do not want firefighters cutting any cables because they could get electrocuted. If they need to cut open a crashed car to get someone out, they need to avoid cutting where any main power cables run. And of course if one of those cables were shorting (making live contact) with the steel body, then the whole thing is dangerous. So just stand back and watch. Use your cell phone to take a video so you can post it online.

 

These voltages obviously would kill you:

 

Tesla Model S and Model 3 batteries run at nominal voltages of about 375 volts and 350 volts, respectively. (Published figures vary slightly.) The Porsche Taycan's batteries run at 800 volts nominal.

 

This much I do know the amperage is what gets you not the voltage, you might want to check that info.

Edited October 27, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[mike6024]

5 minutes ago, John348 said:

his much I do know the amperage is what gets you not the voltage, you might want to check that info

 

 

OK fine. You want to touch a 400 volt line and figure you will be OK as long as there is no amperage. HaHaHa. Let me watch you!

 

 

[John348]

Just now, mike6024 said:

 

 

OK fine. You want to touch a 400 volt line and figure you will be OK as long as there is no amperage. HaHaHa. Let me watch you!

 

 

 

Done it many a time, you never got hit with a spark plug wire? that 10,000 volts

[John348]

41 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

 

 

OK fine. You want to touch a 400 volt line and figure you will be OK as long as there is no amperage. HaHaHa. Let me watch you!

 

 

 

I never wanted to touch 480/277 volt cable/wire, but I knew people were not trained to do so, and I only did it when I felt I had no other choice and the situation was safe.  Again this is for splicing feeders, I got paid rather well to do so as I should have. I could not let you watch me because you most likely do not have the safety certifications and training to allow you in those areas where that work would occur. So HaHaHa maybe after if you can finish a four year apprenticeship and you can pass a few tests, and maybe if you have good attitude we would let you in that authorized only room. It's not polite to make lite of other peoples jobs. Brach circuit splices were done live everyday in the ceiling, but I did not do residential work so most of the lighting circuits were 480/277 in NYC

Edited October 27, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

To answer Bob's question, you theoretically could get electrocuted by touching a crashed car. The voltage is so high they do not want firefighters cutting any cables because they could get electrocuted. If they need to cut open a crashed car to get someone out, they need to avoid cutting where any main power cables run. And of course if one of those cables were shorting (making live contact) with the steel body, then the whole thing is dangerous. So just stand back and watch. Use your cell phone to take a video so you can post it online.

 

These voltages obviously would kill you:

 

Tesla Model S and Model 3 batteries run at nominal voltages of about 375 volts and 350 volts, respectively. (Published figures vary slightly.) The Porsche Taycan's batteries run at 800 volts nominal.

 

Thank you! Glad you took the time to post an informative reply. I'll just keep a safe distance from things I don't understand. 

 

Bob 

[MarkV]

This topic and reading these responses I have nothing to say in response to some of the comments with the exception of three words:

 

free market economy

[John348]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

Thank you! Glad you took the time to post an informative reply. I'll just keep a safe distance from things I don't understand. 

 

Bob 

 

Bob,

Wasn't that the answer I gave to your wise guy set-up question you asked me? I stay away from things I am not trained to do?  At least I was going to call 911 and was going to attempt get a window opened to get fresh air in for the victims. If your going to keep a safe distance and be a spectator you might as well keep on driving.  How would you open the door in a late model ICE vehicle that is in drive that hit a tree? I don't know either.  

 

Hope you did not hurt yourself when you tripped over your own two feet walking your comment backwards, when you landed on your backside don't worry I am sure nobody else noticed but me. I did not start with you, you started in with me with your "expert" comment. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[sebastienbuick]

In France the V8 engine is the symbol of America, and if you take away the V8s, it's like taking away a value from America.
So NO and NO I will never put an electric motor !
And I don't like electric cars, they don't have any engine sound. I greatly prefer the sound of V8 engines !
Here in France and in Europe we hear every day (on the radio, TV, advertising on the billboards) of electric cars and it is very sad.
On Sunday, November 6 there is a demonstration because they want from here can from time to prohibit the circulation of old cars and gasoline and diesel cars before 2006 around the city of Toulouse.
They want when 2030 there are only electric cars circulating in Toulouse . 
It's really very very sad, we stress every day by asking until when we will still have the right to ride  

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, mike6024 said:

To answer Bob's question, you theoretically could get electrocuted by touching a crashed car. The voltage is so high they do not want firefighters cutting any cables because they could get electrocuted. If they need to cut open a crashed car to get someone out, they need to avoid cutting where any main power cables run. And of course if one of those cables were shorting (making live contact) with the steel body, then the whole thing is dangerous. So just stand back and watch. Use your cell phone to take a video so you can post it online.

At the annual new-car autoshow a couple of years back, I looked under the hood of a brand new GM electric, (Volt, or Bolt, can't remember which.)  There was a large red sticker with huge arrow pointing to an electrical cable and in big bold text, stating the First Responders must cut it before doing anything to the car in case of an accident.   

 

Craig

[Brass is Best]

If EVs are so good they should be built and sold on merit. Not by legislation forcing us to buy them when our gas powered cars are regulated out of use. 

[Peter Gariepy]

56 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

If EVs are so good they should be built and sold on merit. Not by legislation forcing us to buy them when our gas powered cars are regulated out of use. 

 

Both Tesla and GM, the USAs two largest sellers of EVs, no longer receive subsides by the Government as they have exceeded the 200,000 benchmark set by legislation.  So, in fact... they are sold on merit.

[Bhigdog]

Hertz Corp. just placed an order for 100,000 Teslas to be delivered next year...............Bob

[Peter Gariepy]

1 hour ago, Brass is Best said:

If EVs are so good they should be built and sold on merit. Not by legislation forcing us to buy them when our gas powered cars are regulated out of use. 

 

FYI:  I agree.  Lets cut all subsidies for EVs.  

 

While we are at it, lets cut the $20b a year in subsidies to the fossil fuel companies in the USA alone.  (source)

 

Another interesting fact... the fossil fuel industry worldwide is subsidized $500b a year.  Yes. $1/2trillion dollar per year. (source)

 

And for the record... no one is forced to build, sell or buy EVs.

[bryankazmer]

8 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

FYI:  I agree.  Lets cut all subsidies for EVs.  

 

While we are at it, lets cut the $20b a year in subsidies to the fossil fuel companies in the USA alone.  (source)

 

Another interesting fact... the fossil fuel industry worldwide is subsidized $500b a year.  Yes. $1/2trillion dollar per year. (source)

 

And for the record... no one is forced to build, sell or buy EVs.

and let's have either one CAFE requirement or none, not a truck subsidy

[Avanti Bill]

And this isn't political?