Would you go electric?

[maok]

1 hour ago, Brass is Best said:

Electric cars have no soul. They are an appliance. 

Similar words were used over a 100 years ago regarding horses and horseless carriages

[Peter Gariepy]

6 minutes ago, maok said:

Similar words were used over a 100 years ago regarding horses and horseless carriages

 

https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/01/get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/

 

...My banker called on me to say: “Winton, I am disappointed in you.”

That riled me, but I held my temper as I asked, “What’s the matter with you?”

He bellowed: “There’s nothing the matter with me. It’s you! You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”

[1937hd45]

On 8/9/2021 at 7:41 PM, Laughing Coyote said:

We all see it and hear it all over the news and on the web.  The big blue marble is getting hotter and the weather is going crazy.  I know a lot of us car guys and gals have put in a lot of time, money and sweat into our cars.  My question is:  If a company came up with an affordable aftermarket electrical system that can be adapted to fit your car would you swap out the engine and go electric?  Just curious what the responses would be.  Also how would the AACA change if more of the older vehicles were converted over to electrics?  

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

15 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

On 8/9/2021 at 4:41 PM, Laughing Coyote said:

We all see it and hear it all over the news and on the web.  The big blue marble is getting hotter and the weather is going crazy.  I know a lot of us car guys and gals have put in a lot of time, money and sweat into our cars.  My question is:  If a company came up with an affordable aftermarket electrical system that can be adapted to fit your car would you swap out the engine and go electric?  Just curious what the responses would be.  Also how would the AACA change if more of the older vehicles were converted over to electrics?  

 

 

I'd be tempted.

AACA judging should NOT change, but I'll bet local club outings will have some interesting things to see and discuss under the hood of our antique automobiles.

Already happens today with modified antiques, so it's not a big change IMHO.

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

On 8/9/2021 at 7:41 PM, Laughing Coyote said:

We all see it and hear it all over the news and on the web.  The big blue marble is getting hotter and the weather is going crazy.  I know a lot of us car guys and gals have put in a lot of time, money and sweat into our cars.  My question is:  If a company came up with an affordable aftermarket electrical system that can be adapted to fit your car would you swap out the engine and go electric?  Just curious what the responses would be.  Also how would the AACA change if more of the older vehicles were converted over to electrics?  

 

My original reply was lost or removed. No, Too old to own an electric, but I have a 354 HEMI to put in my Model A. 

 

Bob 

Edited October 13, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I say that people who think electric cars is the “solution” can’t see behind the wall.

 

Yes, nice clean electric, just plug it into the wall socket.

 

But, that power has to come from some generating facility.  Coal, gas, nuclear, hydroelectric.  Sure, solar and windmills, but those two are insignificant in the overall power production. Both of those have operating costs and depreciation/ life of asset/ payback that are not favorable.

 

In the end, the use of electric vehicles doesn’t   help the environment near as much as some would preach to you….

[1912Staver]

And the majority of them are far from cheap, even with all the Gov. handouts / taxpayer subsidies .

[61polara]

Maybe if I get the same rebate from the government.

[Brass is Best]

3 hours ago, maok said:

Similar words were used over a 100 years ago regarding horses and horseless carriages

 

There are still horses...

[Brass is Best]

4 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

99% of the population agree.

 

You must be watching to much CNN as you edited my quote and took it out of context. As I stated before "Electric cars have no soul. They are an appliance." 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Brass is Best (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

I would never change my existing antique cars;

but it would be interesting to own an early electric.

 

I think an early electric would be best suited today

to drive on local streets of a small town.  Their speeds

are quite low, often below 20 m.p.h.

 

And the AACA has a non-geographical region dedicated

to the early electrics, in case anyone needs support!

[1935Packard]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I say that people who think electric cars is the “solution” can’t see behind the wall.

 

Yes, nice clean electric, just plug it into the wall socket.

 

But, that power has to come from some generating facility.  Coal, gas, nuclear, hydroelectric.  Sure, solar and windmills, but those two are insignificant in the overall power production. Both of those have operating costs and depreciation/ life of asset/ payback that are not favorable.

 

In the end, the use of electric vehicles doesn’t   help the environment near as much as some would preach to you….

 

It depends on where you are, I think, and how the source of energy for your grid is changing.

 

The people who care about electric vehicles for environmental reasons also tend to be committed to cleaner energy sources, too.  In our county, where environmentalism is a big deal, you can choose from three power sources for your energy:  (1) A basic plan, that sources about 50% of your power from renewables; (2) an intermediate plan that is based 100% from hydro, solar, and wind, or (3) a premium plan that is 100% renewable energy plan based solely from wind and solar.  https://ebce.org/our-power-mix/.    A lot of people with EVs get the premium plan, so their cars are being powered 100% from solar and wind.  

 

Nationwide, the picture is different.  But the electricity mix in the United States is changing a lot.  20 years ago, the dirtiest source, coal, was the most common source of electricity.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electricity-net-generation-by-fuel/.  These days, coal is down to about 20% of the US grid, while natural gas (cleaner and generates less CO2 than coal per amount of energy) is about 40%. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3. Sources vary based on where you are, but the electricity sources are on the whole getting cleaner over time, making an EV a cleaner option over time.  That's how I understand it, at least.

 

 

 

 

[3macboys]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:58 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Love our Audi E-Tron. Insanely fast and it does require some acclimation. No shifts feels weird, but it accelerates like a rocket sled and doesn't let up. So smooth that you completely misjudge speeds on the highway. You know how you settle into a pace that "feels" about right? I did that the other day in the E-Tron and looked down to find I was going 98 MPH. All without any noise or vibration. Extraordinary. I look at it as a comfortable luxury SUV that gets OK fuel economy but as a perk, the gas tank magically fills itself every time I park it in my garage. Our electric bill last month (the first full month of having the car and the outlet in the garage) was about $30 more than the same month a year earlier. Can you drive your daily driver all month for $30? I can.

 

Would I convert an old car to electric? No. As others have said, that's not really the point. I like the sound and feel of an old engine doing its thing. Replacing it with technology kind of removes the whole reason for having an old car in the first place.

And no, the big, bad [political party you hate] isn't going to force you to drive an electric car or convert your old cars to electric power. Do you honestly think the oil cmpanies are going away without a fight? Seriously?

 

 

I'm hoping that you will give an update on the Audi as you continue to live with it.  As you live where you do get winter, though not extreme cold, I think that it will be interesting to hear from someone with continuing real world experience in a climate where a good portion of the North American population lives.  

 

It occurred to me today that one real issue with electric is evacuation orders and the like - I read an article where they were shutting down the power to 25k customers in California due to expected high winds and the fire risk if trees were to fall onto power lines and cause wild fires - so what happens if a fire is started and those 25k customers suddenly need to leave?  Between wild fires, hurricanes, flash flooding and any number of other reasons evacuation orders are not uncommon and frequently the power is turned off to prevent other issues so my question is what does one do if your only means of leaving is an electric vehicle that may or may not have a full charge?  Don't get me wrong I think that there is a place for electric vehicles, particularly intercity delivery, school buses and those that only travel short distances for work etc but I do not foresee a time that the ICE will be obsolete.  

 

And in answer to the original question - No I would not covert to electric.  This year I have driven the old cars more than I have in a long time and still didn't spend $1000 in fuel, there is no way that a conversion is going to make financial sense.  

[trimacar]

Of course it’s debatable, as all things are..but we’ve missed the opportunity to have more nuclear energy….Look at France as a model, the large majority of that country’s power comes from nuclear.  Cleaner than any fossil fuel and more economical than most other sources.

 

The US has infrastructure problems, the electrical grid included. Until that infrastructure is upgraded, all electric cars is a pipe dream.

[Digger914]

Now that I'm retired, most of my occasional daily driving is city / residential, usually 5 - 10 and seldom over 40 miles round trip. 

Convert my old summer fun convertible to electric, only if I absolutely had to. Convert my 115 hp Merc outboard boat motor to electric, if I only knew how.

Convert my daily driving, boat towing Tahoe to electric, NEVER. Trade the old Tahoe for a couple grand difference on a newer old Tahoe Hybrid with lower mileage, assorted electrical problems and needing a two grand battery, could be an adventure. 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Digger914 (see edit history)

[mike6024]

I am living in a threatened power outage area right now.

 

"Pacific Gas & Electric Co. is considering a second intentional power shut-off this week in parts of 20 California counties, including portions of the North Bay, the utility said.

The shut-off would start Thursday morning, when dry, windy conditions are again expected to ramp up wildfire danger, the utility said. It would include 1,481 homes and businesses in Sonoma County, 1,774 in Lake County and 3,750 in Napa County."

 

In the past I have had power out for a full week, but that was mainly due to an active fire situation. The planned outages can go from 8 hours to 36 hours usually. They do not just switch it back on when the winds die down. They must inspect ALL the power lines before turning it back on, because theoretically there could be a tree branch laying on a power line.

 

It got very windy Sunday night. Seemed strange. Nothing unusual at all, until late like 10 pm the strong winds kicked up out of nowhere.

[nick8086]

After they fix this mess out side of my house.. lol..

 

Still a big no...

 

 

Next you  will see a sticker on your car Cancer/Reproductive Harm" Prop 65 Sign...

The warning labels can be found on many kinds of products, such as electrical wires, jewelry, padlocks, dishes, flashlights, and pesticides, to name just a few.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

I’m 50. Things have changed so much. They keep on changing. I think about what this world has evolved into in my lifetime, so far. I can’t image it’ll improve any within the next 50 years. Sometimes I think about oil and gas. Will there be gas readily available in 25 years.? I don’t know. If I cannot get gas for my ‘38 Mopar, I’d have to consider whatever options are available at that time. I’m not saying a firm no to a possible conversion. I’m just not sure it’ll be electric. 
 

Today. No. I will not entertain an electric conversion in my ‘38 car. How will I feel in another 15 years from now? We’ll see. Things evolve. I too must. Or be left behind. 

[maok]

1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

I’m 50. Things have changed so much. They keep on changing. I think about what this world has evolved into in my lifetime, so far. I can’t image it’ll improve any within the next 50 years. Sometimes I think about oil and gas. Will there be gas readily available in 25 years.? I don’t know. If I cannot get gas for my ‘38 Mopar, I’d have to consider whatever options are available at that time. I’m not saying a firm no to a possible conversion. I’m just not sure it’ll be electric. 
 

Today. No. I will not entertain an electric conversion in my ‘38 car. How will I feel in another 15 years from now? We’ll see. Things evolve. I too must. Or be left behind. 

Gas/petrol will be available, however, its price will increase dramatically in the next 10-15 years due to less demand and as more EV's go on the road.

 

Will people pay $5-$10 per litre ($20-$40 per gallon) for gas??

 

[nick8086]

I would pay the price..

 

Will people pay $5-$10 per litre ($20-$40 per gallon) for gas??

 

At my age I have to go out  and start three car every week..  Just to kept up the battery's .. just not going out - covid 19..

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

11 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I

And the AACA has a non-geographical region dedicated

to the early electrics, in case anyone needs support!

I didn't realize the AACA had this.  The HCCA has had such a group for years.  Once in a while they have a tour - because of the speed and distance constraints, they call it a "stroll" - for early electric cars.

[60FlatTop]

11 hours ago, trimacar said:

we’ve missed the opportunity to have more nuclear energy….Look at France as a model, the large majority of that country’s power comes from nuclear.  

Decades ago France standardized nuclear power plant construction and operation. An experienced builder or operator can travel the country and optimize an related job.

 

The United States has been reinventing the nuclear wheel since they got it rolling. I would bid a US nuclear power plant job at $0 just to get the change orders.

 

On the wind side, our community was proposing a specification for turbine farm code. I recommended the just copy any profitable design in use that wasn't government subsidized. Well, I don't have to go to that meeting any more.

 

You know, I bet the French build a pretty good nukey submarine, too.

[ply33]

11 hours ago, 3macboys said:

. . . It occurred to me today that one real issue with electric is evacuation orders and the like - I read an article where they were shutting down the power to 25k customers in California due to expected high winds and the fire risk if trees were to fall onto power lines and cause wild fires - so what happens if a fire is started and those 25k customers suddenly need to leave?  Between wild fires, hurricanes, flash flooding and any number of other reasons evacuation orders are not uncommon and frequently the power is turned off to prevent other issues so my question is what does one do if your only means of leaving is an electric vehicle that may or may not have a full charge?  . . .

Maybe it is different elsewhere, but the gas stations in my area do not seem to have backup generators to run their pumps and billing systems: When the power fails it is not possible to purchase gasoline. I don’t know how others handle it, but I usually don’t fill my tank until it is 1/4 or below, so on average I have 3/8 to 5/8 of a tank of gas. Depends on car, but that would be between 80 miles (my old Plymouth) to 200 miles (my PHEV).

 

From what I have read and my experience with my PHEV, EV owners (at least the ones who live in a house) typically top up the charge every night. With Time of Use billing the middle of the night is usually the cheapest time to “fill” the car. Just plug the car in when you get home and the scheduling built into either the car or the charger (or both) automatically starts charging when the price is lowest. If you have a fairly typical current model EV with 220 to 260 mile range and you have a longer than average 60 mile commute then when you get home you will have 160 to 200 miles of range left when you get your fire, flood, etc. evacuation orders. Not much different than for a gasoline fueled vehicle.

[wws944]

I didn't mean to (re)start a big political thread with my post.  Just thought the job the guys in Sweden did on the '66 Impala was particularly cleanly done and interesting.  With 550 hp on tap - from zero MPH to as fast as one would feel comfortable driving a '66 Impala, I wouldn't exactly call it soul-less.  Later in Bjorns video they show a '64 Impala hardtop that is in-progress.  The body is on a rotisserie and the original X frame is being modified separately.  So you can really see what they did.

 

For the record though, I'm not a huge tree hugger.  Nonetheless, both my wife and my daily drivers 'plug in'.  After six years with the Volt, and three years with the Tesla, I'd find it hard to buy a new ICE powered car for daily driving.

Edited October 13, 2021 by wws944 (see edit history)

[Digger914]

7 hours ago, maok said:

Gas/petrol will be available, however, its price will increase dramatically in the next 10-15 years due to less demand and as more EV's go on the road.

 

Will people pay $5-$10 per litre ($20-$40 per gallon) for gas??

 

 

Long before the internal combustion engine created an almost insatiable demand, gasoline was a flammable waste byproduct of oil refinement. When the demand for gasoline drops below its natural production, the cost of gasoline will be nothing compared to the cost of delivery when and where you need it. 

 

Today gasoline is a perishable commodity which looses octane with age. Be it hybrid, hydrogen or plug in, as the world switches from gasoline, the pump price of gas will drop with demand until the point where maintaining a usable supply becomes as economically undesirable as it was 120 years ago.

 

I recommend watching Horatio's Drive, a PBS documentary of the first coast to coast road trip. Converting the value of money from 120 years ago into today's dollars, people who needed gas paid through the nose to have this waste byproduct delivered to locations where it wasn't stocked and readily available. 

[Peter Gariepy]

13 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

 

You must be watching to much CNN as you edited my quote and took it out of context. As I stated before "Electric cars have no soul. They are an appliance." 

 

I paraphrased it.  The point is still valid.  "...cars have no soul. They are an appliance."  The overwhelming majority of the population considered an automobile an appliance. The mode of power:  Gas, electric, steam, rubber bands, doesn't matter.

 

Also consider this:  There are more Tesla car clubs in the USA than AACA regions.  So obviously many people don't agree with you.

 

https://engage.tesla.com/pages/clubs

 

[1912Staver]

A major limit to green power and electric cars is going to be raw materials for battery's. Iron , steel, aluminum , plastic and crude oil is all found in very large quantity's . This fact make IC vehicles a practical reality.  The rare metals and even the lead used in battery's is a vastly more scarce material. It just does not scale for general, world  wide use.

 

Just a guess, but I suspect there are probably as many Corvette clubs as Tesla clubs. 

In Canada at least, Tesla's are still a very expensive car. Top model is close to $150,000.00 CDN. Cheapest $56,000.00. 

Toyota Corolla can be had for as little as $20,000.00. $36,000.00 buys a lot of gas even at todays pump price.

Edited October 13, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

Just now, 1912Staver said:

A major limit to green power and electric cars is going to be raw materials for battery's. Iron , steel, aluminum , plastic and crude oil is all found in very large quantity's . This fact make IC vehicles a practical reality.  The rare metals and even the lead used in battery's is a vastly more scarce material. It just does not scale for general, world  wide use.

 

I agree IC vehicles are not going away completely.

 

However, I question your other assumptions. Virtually every major auto manufacturer in the world have announced multiple billion dollar investment in electric car technology.  They've done their homework much more than you or I. They are not doing this for altruistic reasons, but instead for capitalistic, profit driven reasons.

 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/09/27/ford-to-lead-americas-shift-to-electric-vehicles.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-strategy/vw-boosts-investment-in-electric-and-autonomous-car-technology-to-86-billon-idUSKBN27T24O

 

[1912Staver]

I absolutely agree, very high priced vehicles have always been major profit spinners. It's great if you are in the club, you know the club that 90% or so of us can never afford to be in. For the rest of the people in the Western World we need something that fits into a shrinking disposable income situation. How much is inflation currently ? And what was the pay raise for 90% of us this year ? Get used to a period of several years { or possibly longer }  with less and less in the wallet .

Edited October 13, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Pete O]

There are differing, valid reasons for people being attracted to antique cars.

 

Some people like antique cars just for the way they look.  These are the resto-rod guys out there who clothe a modern chassis with an antique car body.  These are the guys who would convert to electric without hesitation.

 

Some people like antique cars for the overall experience they provide- the sight, as well as the sounds and smells and feelings of running an antique machine.  Count me in this group.   For me, there would be no point in owning an antique car that was created with a gasoline engine if it had to be replaced with an electric motor.

 

As for what the AACA should do, they've already done it.   They have judging classes for Modified cars, and an antique converted to electric is a Modified car.

[wws944]

11 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

A major limit to green power and electric cars is going to be raw materials for battery's. Iron , steel, aluminum , plastic and crude oil is all found in very large quantity's . This fact make IC vehicles a practical reality.  The rare metals and even the lead used in battery's is a vastly more scarce material. It just does not scale for general, world  wide use.

 

Modern EVs don't use lead-acid batteries.  (Except the small 12V battery.  And that is changing.)  Lithium-based batteries are MUCH better in almost every way.

 

Lithium is an extremely common metal.  They are literally scooping it out of dry lake beds in South America.  More interesting is nickel and cobalt that are used in the more energy dense Li-ion cells.  Nickel is fairly common, cobalt less so.  Lots of research efforts to reduce the amount of cobalt vs nickel.  In any case, battery packs can be recycled and the metals recovered for reuse.  Elon calls used battery packs "high grade ore".  Eventually, say in 20-40 years, this will form a closed loop where the amount of new metal which needs to be mined will drop.

 

An alternative Li-based chemistry that is commonly used is "iron phosphate" (LiFePO).  Not as energy dense but iron is a lot cheaper than nickel and especially cobalt.  The Chinese seem to have cornered much of the market on this.  But some of the key patents run out next year.  So we could see a lot of non-Chinese manufacturers coming soon...

 

So-called "rare earth" metals, like neodymium, are typically found in the permanent magnets in the motors.  Again, recyclable at end of life.

 

I know a fellow who converted a Porsche 914 to EV about 10-12 years ago.  He initially used lead-acid batteries, but later converted it to LiFePO.  While the car is quite drivable, it is still very much a work in progress.

 

One of the things that surprised me about the Swedish Impala is that he used NMC (nickel-manganese-cobalt) battery cells in the pack, rather than heavier and less energy dense LiFePO.  This is more in line with many modern EVs and a key to his comments that weight-wise, the Impala was about the same as before with the ICE and its components.

[1912Staver]

My mention of lead was in the context of solar green and wind power generation. Sorry for not being more clear. EV's only help if the power source is not fossil fuel derived.

[Brass is Best]

1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

I paraphrased it.  The point is still valid.  "...cars have no soul. They are an appliance."  The overwhelming majority of the population considered an automobile an appliance. The mode of power:  Gas, electric, steam, rubber bands, doesn't matter.

 

Also consider this:  There are more Tesla car clubs in the USA than AACA regions.  So obviously many people don't agree with you.

 

https://engage.tesla.com/pages/clubs

 

 

Because the majority has always been right... Who cares. Not me.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Brass is Best (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

I paraphrased it.  The point is still valid.  "...cars have no soul. They are an appliance."  The overwhelming majority of the population considered an automobile an appliance. The mode of power:  Gas, electric, steam, rubber bands, doesn't matter.

 

Also consider this:  There are more Tesla car clubs in the USA than AACA regions.  So obviously many people don't agree with you.

 

https://engage.tesla.com/pages/clubs

 

 

No as has been stated by many enthusiasts a gasoline powered automobile is a living breathing thing. They have personality and can take on a life of their own. They have a soul. 

[Peter Gariepy]

7 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

 

No as has been stated by many enthusiasts a gasoline powered automobile is a living breathing thing. They have personality and can take on a life of their own. They have a soul. 

 

Breathing? Maybe, in some context.

Living, Personality and Soul?  I love my old cars, and they most certainly have personality to me. But I could say the same thing about a train, plane or toaster.

[Walt G]

I will not go electric, can understand doing so and most all of my travel is local for groceries, etc. but I have also lived long enough to see blackouts with loss of electricity due to storms . Then gasoline generators get fired up to create electricity to light the house , get other units to function etc. We went to gas for heat some years ago and eliminated the oil tank in the ground. Although I have an electric razor to shave with I still prefer soap,water and a sharp blade to do the best job , but I also like cars with running boards, hand cranked photographs, ( although I do have a 1938 Wurlitzer jukebox that is electric powered) , manual type writers, and when I write my stories/articles it is with a pencil on a sheet of paper not directly on a computer  etc. Perhaps sometime within the next decade even with all the "chip" technology and computer ( electric) up to date modernism 'get real, get with it' thought - the title of a song from a few years back will also mean more to all of us " When everything old is new again".

Edited October 13, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

13 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Breathing? Maybe, in some context.

Living, Personality and Soul?  I love my old cars, and they most certainly have personality to me. But I could say the same thing about a train, plane or toaster.

 

Planes, trains and ships certainly. Not so much on a toaster. I still hate electric cars though.

[wws944]

1 hour ago, John Smeltzer said:

 

LOL - that was almost me last week.  We spent a couple weeks with my daughter, son-in-law, and (first!) new grandchild.  They recently bought a house with a 5.5 kW backup generator.  Generator hadn't been run in years.  So I set about to try and get it running.  Replaced the spark plug, a badly cracked crankcase vent pipe, horrible looking air filter, etc.  Tried cleaning out what used to be gas in the gas tank - but the in-tank screen still seems kinda plugged up.  Unfortunately didn't get to the point of actually starting it up before we had to leave.

 

Next visit I'll change the oil and try to clean the gas tank out some more.  Hopefully then it will actually start.  To test it out, I plan to plug my Tesla into it and try charging for a bit.

 

Oh - the road trip from the San Jose CA area to the Seattle area and back in the Tesla?  (~900 miles each way)  Piece of cake.  Really not much different timewise from a ICE car - thanks to the Superchargers along I-5.  The inns we stayed at overnight both ways even offered free EV charging.  So we woke up each morning with a "full tank".

[Frank DuVal]

OK, how did Pepe know it is a gas powered van? Most of Europe buys diesel vehicles. 

 

Whole lot of roadside assistant versions of EV chargers, none on trailers.

 

 

[TerryB]

Another take on gas vs….