Leif in Calif Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I don't know when roundabouts started showing up in the US, but I'd guess about 25 years ago. My town is in the process of adding a string of "mini-roundabouts" that are really just an 8 ft island to the middle of all the intersections on one crosstown street. I idea is to keep people from using this street to zoom through when others get congested, there by making it safe for bicycles, which the city council thinks we should all be using. Actually, I think anything that allows you to continue on without coming to a full stop is a plus, especially in an old car. Now Caltrans has a new idea; the TURBO roundabout. If drivers show they can figure it out, I'm sure well see many more. I note that there is no way to go around again if you are confused.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 That is indeed a miserable, dangerous intersection which cannot help but benefit from a roundabout. I'm happy to see width that can easily accommodate trailers. I remember "traffic circles" in WashDC more than 50 years ago which seemed to encourage competitive "who's chicken?" driving for space within them. They were no fun for a recent arrival.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CChinn Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 In theory, this solution would work if everyone entering the roundabout understood the different lanes. That is easier said than done IMO. There will be the distracted drivers or the one’s not paying attention who will get in the wrong lane and realize it at the last minute and try to drive over the lane divider to get to the proper lane. Unfortunately there will likely be another car right where they want to go. Accident! We have a similar traffic circle in Pinehurst, NC, but without the lane dividers. Last minute lane changes occur regularly. It has been a source of irritation for the community for years. Traffic congestion and backups have been the main complaint. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Of course the idea seems to have originated in the UK. When we lived there we got used to how to maneuver and they proved to be a safe and excellent way to keep things moving. When they first began showing up in this country it was obvious that those unfamiliar with them were either over-cautious or crazy -one extreme or the other. In places here where they've been around a while and commuters have become used to them, things are so much smoother Toss in a few "tourists" though and things can get pretty scary. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Yeah, this will end well... As some one who grew up in Massachusetts and learned how to navigate all the "rotaries" there, the "me first" attitude of US drivers doesn't bode well for traffic circles. Here in Northern VA, we have new two-lane traffic circles, and despite the solid lines, people persist in changing lanes without looking, as if they owned the entire road. Good luck with this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Yeah, this will end well... As some one who grew up in Massachusetts and learned how to navigate all the "rotaries" there, the "me first" attitude of US drivers doesn't bode well for traffic circles. Here in Northern VA, we have new two-lane traffic circles, and despite the solid lines, people persist in changing lanes without looking, as if they owned the entire road. Good luck with this. Yup, it's the "This is My Lane" mentality here than can really screw things up quickly. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif in Calif Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 I think they may need a clover leaf at each exit to allow drivers who chose the wrong lane to go back for a do-over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 14 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Yeah, this will end well... As some one who grew up in Massachusetts and learned how to navigate all the "rotaries" there, the "me first" attitude of US drivers doesn't bode well for traffic circles. Here in Northern VA, we have new two-lane traffic circles, and despite the solid lines, people persist in changing lanes without looking, as if they owned the entire road. Good luck with this. Yes, I grew up in eastern Massachusetts too and my first experience with rotaries was in Dedham in 1954 riding with my brother. Don't know when they started but they were an abomination then and still are today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Holy Yikes!! Glad I dont have to go through that. We got the first round a bout in our county about 15 years ago. Everyone was fighting tooth and nail. We now have several and they all work fine and everyone has gotten used to them. All of ours are single lane though. There is one on a main highway near my home that at least once a month a driver, usually a big truck will go straight through though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearheadengineer Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I have experience with roundabouts - operating both cars and bicycles. I commend your city council for considering cyclists - all too often roads are designed without thinking about vulnerable users. However, I do not like riding a bike through a roundabout. They are designed to keep traffic moving (good thing) but this means drivers enter at pretty high speeds - with their attention focused to their left (not a good thing when you are directly in front of them at only 15-18mph). When I’m driving a car I think they work fine and I know of one local example that has proven to reduce slowdowns since it was opened about five years ago. Multi-lane versions work OK although if you don’t know what’s coming you might get in the wrong lane and miss your planned route. I used to travel to the UK quite a bit and that took some getting used to (every visit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) They,ve been a round, pun intended, for years. They work fine for the familiar but can be confusing at first. There are still accidents but they are almost always minor. The circles pretty much eliminate deadly T bones....bob. Edited January 2 by Bhigdog (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Try the circle at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. Twelve roads meeting, no lines marking the way. It’s fun to watch what happens from the top of the monument. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I grew up in Edmonton, and they work great if one knows how to use them and not stop, and most importantly, USE THEIR SIGNAL LIGHT; especially when they plan to exit the circle! As said, the idea is to keep traffic moving. The most dumbassed thing Calgary did a few years ago was build one that straddles a main CP Rail north-south railway track which is the complete antithesis of a traffic circle when a train is present. Because its a main rail line, there are minimum 75-100 railcars with pushers in the middle or the rear, vehicular traffic comes to complete halt for a good ten minutes, and after the train is long gone, its a total clusterf*ck for another 20 minutes before traffic moves freely again after who decides to let who enter or leave the circle. Google ariel view of our city's incompetent traffic engineering's effort here: Google Maps Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 25 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said: Try the circle at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. Twelve roads meeting, no lines marking the way. It’s fun to watch what happens from the top of the monument. There's the right way, the wrong way, and the French way. They do make great airplanes though................Bob 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 47 minutes ago, 8E45E said: I grew up in Edmonton, and they work great if one knows how to use them and not stop, and most importantly, USE THEIR SIGNAL LIGHT; especially when they plan to exit the circle! As said, the idea is to keep traffic moving. The most dumbassed thing Calgary did a few years ago was build one that straddles a main CP Rail north-south railway track which is the complete antithesis of a traffic circle when a train is present. Because its a main rail line, there are minimum 75-100 railcars with pushers in the middle or the rear, vehicular traffic comes to complete halt for a good ten minutes, and after the train is long gone, its a total clusterf*ck for another 20 minutes before traffic moves freely again after who decides to let who enter or leave the circle. Google ariel view of our city's incompetent traffic engineering's effort here: Google Maps Craig On the plus side, the police station is right next to this horrible idea so they don't have to travel far to take accident reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Once while driving my 15 passenger van, towing a 24 ft enclosed trailer through a single lane round about, I could have sworn I passed myself. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Gary_Ash said: Try the circle at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. Twelve roads meeting, no lines marking the way. It’s fun to watch what happens from the top of the monument. I think Clark Griswold got stuck in that circle for a few hours! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmsue Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Roundabouts can work very well but can be a real experience while vacationing. We're getting a 'Divergent Diamond' interchange to hopefully prevent accidents. Fingers crossed ........ Go to the 42 second marker to begin the show and tell of the new design Anyone ever seen one of these....or driven on one? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrData Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) My little town also in Sonoma County like the OP, installed a roundabout at what was a five way intersection. It took about a year longer than planned due to weather and dealing with undocumented water systems. Eventually it was opened. Given my town’ issues dealing with creating a one way street, I was quite skeptical about it, but most people are able to navigate it. Of course, there is still a measurable proportion of entitled drivers who feel they own the road and the heck with everyone else. Not to mention the overly entitled bicyclists… Edited January 2 by DrData (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Here in New York, we are not immune to roust-abouts... My favorite one is where State Route 76 crosses Interstate 87 in Malta. There are 5 roundabouts on Route 67 each no more than 600 feet from the other. It can be a nightmare the first time through. Between watching signs for the correct lane to watching drivers about to cut you off, you need eyes on all four sides of your head. Her is an aerial shot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Thanks for the ammunition guys!😁 The Town of South Boston VA is having the child-bearing hots to install one at the southern entrance to the town. I think it's going to be one of those close-coupled ones that creates more problems than it solves. Hearing on it is the 18th and I intend to be there. Another little town 20 miles away put one in several years ago and it's barely 45 feet across. Nightmare for any vehicle bigger than a KIA. The traffic engineer who just had to have it got to see the daily collisions from his office window. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke01 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, wmsue said: Roundabouts can work very well but can be a real experience while vacationing. We're getting a 'Divergent Diamond' interchange to hopefully prevent accidents. Fingers crossed ........ Go to the 42 second marker to begin the show and tell of the new design There is one operating in Lexington KY and another planned. The new design is more efficient than the old one but you have to be alert and visualize how it works before you go through it. Also, it would be to your advantage to put your phone down while driving through the intersection. Zeke Anyone ever seen one of these....or driven on one? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I grew up in and for over thirty years worked field service work all over the greater San Francisco Bay Area and beyond! Having vacationed a few times in Southern California, I am convinced that the Bay Area freeways are far worse than anything in Southern California! I once "clocked" my travel through a highway interchange that I went through several times every week. Two tenths of a mile in TWENTY MINUTES! It was like that every day! My thirty mile commute had gone from its original thirty minutes to two hours each way over twenty years. We ended up in Grass Valley, where the local clueless think fifteen cars lined up at a stop sign is a major gridlock! Enter (a few years ago now?), roundabouts. I have a simple question. Who the blankety-blank ever thought that people incapable of figuring out a simple single lane all directions four-way stop-sign intersection would be able to understand and use a roundabout?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Divergent Diamonds are very common up here now. Very easy to navigate, if, you don't look at the traffic and just follow the signs. Really really have fixed heavy traffic standing still issues, typically at Interstate interchanges. Not nearly anyone talking about them being a problem, like they talk about disliking roundabouts, which are also being installed on rural but now overcrowded roads. They too solve traffic standing still issues on two lane intersections. Traffic, yep, from all the people trying to get to work. Funny thing, you bring jobs to an area and suddenly people complain about all the traffic. Well, why are YOU here? To get a job of course! And that brings more jobs to provide services to the people who came for jobs. If you want a nice highway with no traffic, well, no Northern Virginia traffic, move near Glenn, US 58 is 4 lanes in a lot of places and not many vehicles per day. Oops, sorry Glenn, now they will come! Oh, just don't employ them, they will leave.🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: I have a simple question. Who the blankety-blank ever thought that people incapable of figuring out a simple single lane all directions four-way stop-sign intersection would be able to understand and use a roundabout?! That's not a problem with the roundabout. In my view, if they are single lane, and follow the standard custom that the people in the roundabout always have the right of way, then roundabouts are easier. There is no question of who arrived when and who has the right of way. Traffic moves better too. Diverge from that custom though, and you can have an unbelievable mess. I've seen a few. Bardstown, KY and North Bend, WA come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Kingsley Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 They have put in a few here in the Hudson valley and they have made every road more dangerous and annoying to drive. People are too impatient to wait two or three minutes at a traffic light so now everybody has to fight for the same circle of pavement at the same time. Three of them were put in on a strait road with only one other road meeting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearheadengineer Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, DrData said: Not to mention the overly entitled bicyclists Yeah. Imagine thinking that drivers should pay attention and maybe slow down for two seconds or move over a foot so you can make it home alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 We have our very first DIVERGENT DIAMOND at the ground level entrance to our new terminal at Louis Armstrong International Airport, formerly known as Moisant (MSY). Another I'm familiar with is at exit #407 of I-40 in Tennessee , where the new Buc-ee's was built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmhowe Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 My wife and I spent a year in England back in the 1980s. Three days after arriving in England, we had to drive from Cambridge to Cardiff, Wales. We counted nearly 100 roundabouts on that trip. We were seriously challenged in Swindon, Wiltshire where five roundabouts were looped together in a pentagonal configuration. We went round and round until we were almost dizzy before we successfully launched our Austin A35 onto the proper highway. After that, we were never again threatened by a roundabout. We actually found the roundabouts to be a remarkably efficient way of handling traffic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Trucker Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) Gotta relate this some how to old cars... This is Columbus Circle in NYC, built in 1905 to relieve traffic congestion. How did it work out, New Yorkers?? Trolley car heading for a T-bone accident? Paris has nothing on New York city! Edited January 3 by Crusty Trucker (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said: Divergent Diamonds are very common up here now. Very easy to navigate, if, you don't look at the traffic and just follow the signs. Really really have fixed heavy traffic standing still issues, typically at Interstate interchanges. Not nearly anyone talking about them being a problem, like they talk about disliking roundabouts, which are also being installed on rural but now overcrowded roads. They too solve traffic standing still issues on two lane intersections. Traffic, yep, from all the people trying to get to work. Funny thing, you bring jobs to an area and suddenly people complain about all the traffic. Well, why are YOU here? To get a job of course! And that brings more jobs to provide services to the people who came for jobs. If you want a nice highway with no traffic, well, no Northern Virginia traffic, move near Glenn, US 58 is 4 lanes in a lot of places and not many vehicles per day. Oops, sorry Glenn, now they will come! Oh, just don't employ them, they will leave.🤣 They're already coming. Ya gotta remember Caesar's is building a casino here in Southside. Even with the temporary "tent" casino traffic (and real estate pricing) is slowly becoming insane. Apparently those casino jobs pay pretty good! There's a couple of divergent diamonds on I40/I85 between Greensboro and Burlington NC. I've had to navigate them a couple times but anymore I try to stay off the Interstate if at all possible. I'm a two-lane kinda guy, for both old cars and modern cars!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Here in Northeast Illinois and in Southeast Wisconsin where I do most of my driving roundabouts are the new rage. Happy that the states have so much extra cash that they can convert not only faily busy intersections but some that only get a few cars an hour. That said as we get used to them there is a certain percentage who see a game of chicken as a goal. And some have an attitude of “he’ll see me and stop” when they enter the circle without looking to see if anyone is near them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I like the well designed ones. Whoever decided that it was a good idea to put a right turn lane coming into a traffic circle though should be placed right in the middle of the mayhem, or the pedestrian crossing immediately at the exit of the circle. Locally the first one installed was near the Outdoor Farm Show here, 15000 people a day coming and going each day in about a 1 1/2 window in the morning and then again in the afternoon. That circle eliminated 2 mile long backlogs, well until someone not familiar with them tries to turn left coming into it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th Son Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 This brings a whole new meaning to "Hurry up and Wait". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 roundabouts. The really big ones can look cool. but overall I just don't like them and having to deal with them. Arizona has a number of them now and it's just a hassle most the time. I prefer a standard intersection but I would like to see yield signs utilized instead of all these stop signs and lights. of course this all only works if people are courteous drivers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Very common here, especially in Canberra which is known as the city of roundabouts - they work exceptionally well there. The things that work in there favour there are 1) you take a wrong turn and in the ACT there is generally a parallel road that might take one or two minutes longer but will get you there 2) in peak they control them using traffic lights 3) the roads were designed with them in the first place so they're large and purpose built 4) you have excellent visibility on most roundabouts so you don't even have to slow down in most cases and can go through them at 50mph. The main parts of Canberra with bad traffic are the areas where someone had a brainwave and messed with it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlestown Mike Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Of course, the real issue is too many cars, right? "So if everyone just stayed home, I wouldn't have any problems getting around." Seriously, a little driver-to-driver courtesy along with adequate knowledge of the rules of right of way and there would be far fewer crashes. I can't count the number of times I arrive at a four-way stop and the driver (who has already stopped) on my right INSISTS I go firtst. I saw my first Diverget Diamond here in PA. Some of you may have encountered it on your way to Hershey. It is in Shrewsbury( just north of the MD/ PA line) at the interesection with the ramps for I 83. As long as you follow the signage, it is quite an improvement over the traditional design. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 30 minutes ago, Littlestown Mike said: Of course, the real issue is too many cars, right? "So if everyone just stayed home, I wouldn't have any problems getting around." That was one thing that COVID did show though, how many totally unneccesary trips were being made 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 hours ago, rocketraider said: Thanks for the ammunition guys!😁 The Town of South Boston VA is having the child-bearing hots to install one at the southern entrance to the town. I think it's going to be one of those close-coupled ones that creates more problems than it solves. Hearing on it is the 18th and I intend to be there. Another little town 20 miles away put one in several years ago and it's barely 45 feet across. Nightmare for any vehicle bigger than a KIA. The traffic engineer who just had to have it got to see the daily collisions from his office window. This was pretty much the same attitude when they installed the first one in our county. The circles they have installed are pretty small, and one of the arguments against was that farm equipment and big trucks would not be able to navigate. Most of them have small centres that are lined with a curb and ornamental plantings in the middle, BUT there is a large apron with stamped concrete that is "O.K." for use by longer vehicles. All of the ones installed in our county have been finished with success, traffic is much easier to maneuver at these intersections and they are all much safer. They're not as bad as a lot make them out to be. I suppose it depends on the location. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, Crusty Trucker said: Gotta relate this some how to old cars... This is Columbus Circle in NYC, built in 1905 to relieve traffic congestion. How did it work out, New Yorkers?? Trolley car heading for a T-bone accident? Paris has nothing on New York city! I’m actually shocked that Columbus’ statue is still there. I thought it would have been cancelled by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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