Restoration space options: which would you choose?

[zdillinger]

This is a question for all of you experienced restorers. I've owned and worked on a bunch of different old cars over the years but only ever totally restored one from a rusty hulk, my Model T Ford. I did it in one half of my two car garage and this approach definitely had positives and negatives. I have a new restoration project coming soon, a 1928 Pontiac 6-28 sedan. This won't be a full restoration at first, just sympathetic to get it running, but it has a few big-ish issues and I could see it taking a good long while to sort out. I'm looking for opinions on where to put this while I work on it.

 

Option 1: my half of an attached two car garage:

Pros:

- warm-ish during the long Michigan winter, or at least adjacent to warmth i.e. the house

- concrete floor

- plenty of light

 

Cons

- Limited space

- Have to be careful around my wife's adjacent car, i.e. any grinding, painting, etc. has to be done very carefully

- Fumes from rust penetrants, chemicals, etc. will get into the house

 

Option 2: Large pole barn with very high roofline/ceiling

Pros:

- Plenty of space around the vehicle

- Plenty of space for part storage, etc.

- Fewer constraints re: debris, fumes, etc. (my father-in-law stores some farm equipment in the back half of my barn but not a big concern overall, with plenty of distance between my proposed work area and his stuff)

- Plenty of workbench space, with two 8 foot long metal covered work surfaces put together in one corner.

 

Cons:

- Dirt/gravel floor (except for bench area and enclosed room, which both have concrete pads.

- unheated and uninsulated (but there is a small enclosed room inside the building that could be heated for a quick warmup, complicated assembly, etc.

- poor lighting, with very high ceilings making adding additional lights more difficult/less effective.

 

So... which would you choose and why?

 

Thanks,

Zach D.

[billorn]

[joe_padavano]

A disassembled project car takes up at least 3X as much space as an assembled car. The pole barn, as large as possible.

[1937hd45]

Option B

[tom_in_nh]

I vote like Bill, do both.

Now that we've made up your mind for you - get out there and make it happen!

 

[Borough Essex]

Option B when the Pontiac arrives then when the colder weather comes, have jobs you can do on it in the heated garage. That way you won't lose momentum. You could put your wife's car outside, but then that "might' create other issues:)

[Paul Dobbin]

Some of us didn't have the two optiona,  we made do with your option #1,   My first total restoration started next to the drivewy in front of our one car garage.   A rubberized  cover kept the project dry until I moved the whole thing to the backyard.    There I felt the deterioration was faster then my restoration, and moved my wife's 1965 Mustang Deluxe Convertible out and moved my 34 Ford into the one car garage.  (1972)    I had a brand new Ford Torino company car in the driveeay too.   That led to us moving to a home with a two car garage garage.  (1973)   By 1977 I had purchaed a 31 Model A Ford project and the Mustang was outside again,   

By 1979 I had built an additonal 3 car garage behind the house.  By the time the Model A was done, I had aquired s 15 Model T basket case in 1981.   For a brief time I had all the cars in garages.   Then to support my car habit , I bought and  sold cars like I did in collage..  Sometimes I had 4 cars in the 3 car garage, and no work space.   After buying a GMC motorhome & my 66 VW to tow behind,

I was forced to ask little old ladies in the neighborhood for garage space to rent.   That lasted until 2000 when I retired and rented RV and VW space away form home and began doing my restorations in a friends building.   By 2008 we had moved to NC and built a 2000 Sq Ft shop and storage fo 11 vehicles.

I guess it ends when we die and only get a tiny casket for all we can take with us.     It's been a fun life of cars and adventure.

Now, after typing this I feel like down sizing.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Where in Michigan are you located?

[Rusty_OToole]

This is a personal decision and no two guys will see it exactly the same way. I would lean toward doing the work in the garage as a matter of convenience. If necessary you could create a heated space in the pole barn at small expense. You will have to do what seems best and modify in the light of experience.

[Akstraw]

Pole barn.  Keep fumes, overspray, fumes, whatever from contaminating your garage, and creeping into your home.

[zdillinger]

14 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

Where in Michigan are you located?

Charlotte, a little town near Lansing.

[Gunsmoke]

IMHO, neither option will work well. In space terms, restoring a car will require at least 400-500 square feet of space, typically including an 11x22 space (230 ft sq) for the chassis to sit with room to work on it, at least a 8x15 (120 ft sq) workshop space for refurbishing parts, tools, machinery etc, and another 100-150 sq feet for storing parts removed from the car as well as any duplicate parts. Ideally all the space should be connected and heated year round, but the parts storage can in some cases be unheated and remote if space is dry and secure. I currently am restoring a Roadster using my 1 bay garage (11x20) and adjacent 14x20 workshop. There is no room for large parts, like fenders, bumpers, engine hoists etc, so I store those in a temporary car tent structure. These tents are fine in summer, but sweat like the devil in cold winters. As someone mentioned, you need close to a 3 car garage to comfortably restore a car. BTW, it also will take you 2-3 times longer than you think!

[Frank DuVal]

Both, that will give you an excuse to buy more tools!

 

Lots of LED fixtures to choose from for more light in the pole barn. Now if that means going up two stories on a ladder, then that takes time from restoration work. Especially after the fall. I like low roofs, 12 foot max for me. Above that, call for someone else.

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

Over fifty years, I have done more than ten full ground up restorations! I am a true "shade tree" mechanic! 

I currently have a two car garage, but cannot do a lot of work in it due to "smells". I have a small shop, with some work space and room for one car. I also have a small "mini barn". I can uncomfortably keep one model T size car inside, and have quite a bit of storage space for parts and collectables (fortunately one of my model Ts is a fenderless speedster which helps getting around it a lot!).

Another storage shed could have a small car put inside, except that it is full of a huge work bench, small lathe, big saw, and a ton of junk and antique car parts! In addition to those, I have a few other storage sheds full of family junk and some of my antique car parts and other collectables. 

The small shop is where I have a model T engine I am supposed to be working on, drill presses (a little one I use most because it is handy, and a big old beast that can do really tough or larger jobs!), grinders, welders (welding is always done outside!), and a work bench that is always cluttered and often has two or three projects being worked on!

Most of my real working is done in the area outside and between the small shop and mini barn. I have a permanent work bench with a big old blacksmith's vise, and several portable and/or temporary work benches I set up how I need them for specific restoration projects. I also have a model T frame set up with running boards and front fender brackets that I have straightened and fitted enough front fenders for three model Ts (so far!), and a home-made hydraulic jack press large enough in which to press twisted fenders in order to straighten them!

 

If I had a pole barn like you mention? I would build a couple "temporary" work areas, at least one walled in enough to hold the weather back. And those "temporary" work areas would most likely stay as long as I did!

[ch1929]

Kick the wife out of the garage, use the pole barn for parts storage.

[pkhammer]

Heat, light and space. Three things that are important (other than money and time!). If it were me I'd use the barn for storage (space) of parts and use the garage to do most of the work where I had heat and light. Move the Wife's car out when you have grinding or other dirty work to do. I personally can't stand to work in the cold and I'm sure Michigan winters can be uncomfortable.

[TAKerry]

What is the chance of having some more concrete placed in the barn where you will be working on the car? May be an expense that will come from the car budget and prolong the job a bit, but will make a more comfortable space and the owner of the barn may appreciate it when you are finished!

 

Having the car in the barn would be nice for the space and I would do that. 

 

One does not need a huge shop to restore a car. I did mine in the space of a one car garage. Actually a 4 bay garage but all of the restoration work was done in a single bay. It can and has been done before many times. I now have a 24 x 40 shop, with a car occupying at least one bays worth. Right now just sitting in the way, but the overall footprint doesnt need to be large.

[Larry Schramm]

Most of my work happens in a 20x30 building.  It has heat, running water, electric, and a bathroom.  Not big, but it works.

[31 LaSalle]

defiantly the barn lots of room and far enough away from the wife's car so no complaints from her 

[Restorer32]

No matter which you chose it will not be large enough in a couple years.  

[ron hausmann]

Whatever you do, it will be too little space in a year or two. Car guys automatically fill in all spaces.

[zdillinger]

4 minutes ago, ron hausmann said:

Whatever you do, it will be too little space in a year or two. Car guys automatically fill in all spaces.

Oh, for sure. This will make three pre-war cars in my current collection, but I've owned and sold off nearly a dozen others (mostly muscle cars and sports cars that no longer interest me). 

[yachtflame]

I have a 28’ x 40’ barn. I’m restoring a 1949 Jaguar MK V on one side and a 1930 Garwood 28’ wooden runabout on the other. I hung full length, two layers of 6 mil plastic 2” apart to make an air barrier. I use a propane salamander heater to heat the side I’m working on.

 My advice... keep your wife happy by leaving her parking alone. Enclose the needed area in the pole barn with plastic on sides and top. Place plywood where you need it on the floor, which keeps your feet warmer and only heat what you need. As for light, a lot of states are subsidized LED lighting. In MA, I get 4’ LED shop lights for $5. I’ve swapped out all 18 of my hanging shop lights making it quite bright in my barn.

 Good luck on the new project!

[SC38dls]

Pick one and as Nike says just Do It !  
Both will be used if your like most of us. I would love to have a barn again with or without concrete. Pour more if you can or put down plywood if possible. Get as much good clean working room as you can and just do it. Have fun, get it on the road asap and drive it. 
dave s 

[poci1957]

Detached is the way of course but if you are building a new structure you actually should ask do you really want a pole barn or a garage?  Some say you are either a garage or a pole barn guy and I find I am a garage guy.  

 

My previous country place had a large metal machine shed over 3000 sq ft and with all that space it seemed like the ideal.  It wasn't.  I was never able to eliminate mice, I was never able to heat it all, even lighting all that space was too much. In the damp spring and fall seasons the metal building sweated and soaked everything in condensation and there was nothing I could do about it.    

 

When I moved into town pole barns were seriously discouraged but I was allowed a 24x48 garage (4 stalls, almost 1200 sq ft) with 10ft walls to accommodate a lift.  And a small detached shed for parts storage.  This has been about perfect for me, maybe slightly larger like 30x48 would have been nice but I can heat, light and insulate it and I am very comfortable.  The cost (at least in my area) was just a little more than a pole barn for a much nicer looking building that fits the neighborhood.  And my wife's cars and the lawn implements live in the regular 2 car garage by the house.  Good luck with yours, Todd C     

[erichill]

Option B but improve the lighting and  some type of floor even if plywood under the car. You will constantly searching for dropped nuts/washers etc. 

 

[charlier]

Option "C" (is use BOTH locations).

 

Make up two To Do Lists, one for home garage, one for barn. Do all the "Barn" tasks (grinding, painting, chemicals, etc) in the spring/summer/fall. Do all the "Home Garage" tasks in the winter. 

 

Distance to the barn, lack of heat in the barn and any decent amount of snow on the ground will have a negative impact on progress for this project if you do it exclusively at the barn.

 

BTW, I did a full restoration in one-half of my two car garage at home. I took the shell to a body shop for the body and paint work. Did have the fumes concern, etc. Box fans and a partially open garage door helped a lot. The almost completely disassembled car (did not disassemble the engine) took up every square inch of space (except bathrooms) in my 1,900+ sq ft home. Ahhhh, the advantage of being single...

 

FYI, when I pulled the engine out of my project vehicle I moved the car parked in the other garage bay outside for the day but that was not during the winter. There was NO WAY if was going to do that task and certain others with my other car in the garage.

 

Using both locations might be an option for you if you can move the car and/or it's parts between both locations as the tasks or time of year dictate. 

[Larry Schramm]

Old cars are like Lays Potato chips.  Ya can't have just one.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, ch1929 said:

Kick the wife out of the garage, use the pole barn for parts storage.

Tell her that you will brush off the snow and get her car warm for her in the winter,

[Larry Schramm]

We all should know that happy wife = happy life.  My wife parks outside during the summer, but as soon as winter starts she is parking in the garage. Simple & done.

[keiser31]

43 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

Tell her that you will brush off the snow and get her car warm for her in the winter,

I always scrape my honey's windows in the winter. She lets me use the whole garage.

[Dandy Dave]

3 hours ago, keiser31 said:

I always scrape my honey's windows in the winter. She lets me use the whole garage.

Yeah, But you don't deal with this dang not so great North East weather we have here. 

[keiser31]

18 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

Yeah, But you don't deal with this dang not so great North East weather we have here. 

We DO get snow and ice, but not like where you live.

[marcapra]

Keiser knows your winter, since he came from there many years ago.  His dad was an automotive engineer in Detroit.  I know Charlotte, MI well.  I used to go there once a year for the big Stanton Antique Phonograph auction that they had at the fairgrounds in November and April.    

[Paul Dobbin]

On 7/22/2022 at 6:54 AM, ch1929 said:

Kick the wife out of the garage, use the pole barn for parts storage.

  Spoken like someone who lives alone.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Good one, Jack.

 

  Ben

[zdillinger]

I want to say thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I went ahead and did a little work to the barn space. Model T Ford for scale, and the mower will obviously be stored somewhere else. I knocked together some light supports and ordered 4 48" LED lights to hang. On the ground, I put an old piece of carpeting that I pulled out of our house when I refinished my dining room floor. 

 

So, its a start. The Pontiac won't be here until next week at the earliest, so I still have some time to tinker with the space. If nothing else, it got me off my butt and made me clean up out there and get rid of some clutter. 

[marcapra]

This might be a big job, but maybe you can have it insulated, walls and ceiling, and pave the floor with cement?  then, install some kind of heater in there, or furnace.  

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

7 hours ago, marcapra said:

This might be a big job, but maybe you can have it insulated, walls and ceiling, and pave the floor with cement?  then, install some kind of heater in there, or furnace.  

 YEAH!   With the loose change in your pocket? LOL

 

  Ben

[1912Staver]

14 hours ago, zdillinger said:

I want to say thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I went ahead and did a little work to the barn space. Model T Ford for scale, and the mower will obviously be stored somewhere else. I knocked together some light supports and ordered 4 48" LED lights to hang. On the ground, I put an old piece of carpeting that I pulled out of our house when I refinished my dining room floor. 

 

So, its a start. The Pontiac won't be here until next week at the earliest, so I still have some time to tinker with the space. If nothing else, it got me off my butt and made me clean up out there and get rid of some clutter. 

 

That looks like a great building!  I would invest in a 20 x 20 or so concrete slab in one of the corners. As time permits put up some light framing to partition off that space so it can be isolated from rodents etc. As a further step insulate and heat. Other than the concrete it does not have to cost a lot . And the improvements will pay off in spades as you progress on your projects.