The "Victoria Coupe" body style of 1914-1930

[Steve_Mack_CT]

9 hours ago, K8096 said:

If you like them so much why didn’t you buy this one AJ?   

CT roots by chance?

[wayne sheldon]

5 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

 

 

 

Anybody know this car? There is one almost identical to this for sale (listed on Hemmings). The one on Hemmings is said to be a very original car, and looks like a very old but well kept car? In this photo, the car appears much more fresh and sharp looking. I had stumbled across this photo and a couple others of this car while searching for something else on the internet, and wondered if it could have been the same car? However, I would hate to think a car this nice and fairly recently would have been allowed to degrade to the level of the car listed for sale on Hemmings. 

The cars appear to have similar dual spare tires, outside rear view mirror, same optional bumpers (much better looking on this car!), and even the same flower vase on the passenger side pillar. Big difference in the appearance of the radiator shell. So much alike? But too different?

[8E45E]

7 minutes ago, CHuDWah said:

Are those really Victoria?  Hard to tell from pic angle but they appear to be 5-window coupe (no backseat/jump seats) rather than Victoria.

I believe you are correct.  Not until 1937 did Terraplane offer a 'Victoria Coupe'.

 

Craig

[K8096]

7 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

CT roots by chance?

No.  There’s another maroon one in Torrington, CT I believe.   

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yes featured in the Fenster Packard book I believe, have seen the car but not in ages.

[Joe in Canada]

I have owned this 1930 Cadillac 353 five - passenger opera coupe for almost 40 years. Was owned by two others who passed it around in baskets before I got to sort it out. Yes it was a major undertaking but it was a fun project that I enjoyed doing. It sat in the back corner of my barn for more years that I want to admit to before finishing the restoration after I retired. I guess it was my own barn find. Has been on a few AACA national tours Sentimental, Glidden and vintage tours and many tours this side of the boarder over the years. A great driver after getting rid of the 4.75 gears it came with and now 360s. 

You know you have a scarce car when you google your make, model and year a picture of your car comes up.  Yes it has everything factory correct (to my knowledge) it came with from air intake cover to interior sun visors.  

Edited November 8, 2021 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[3macboys]

There's this one that some one hot rodded that's been for sale on Kijiji for sometime in Ontario.  When you read the description I can't believe that they did what they did to it and how much more it would be worth if it had been restored but still really like the body style.   This is one that I wonder if it could be put back to original?

 

 

Up for sale is a very rare 1931 Chrysler 5 passenger Victoria Coupe (Vicki) Only 488 where made. This car is power by a 440 Big block Chrysler with a 727 Torqueflite 3 speed autoTransmission. This car ride on Air suspension front and back has power steering , power front disk brakes, tilt steering, classic gauges, clock rear view mirror, floor lokar shifter, electric fan , 8" ford rear end, 6 wire wheels, many more features... This car is the only one known to exist here in Canada and possibly the US ..Asking $ 58,000.00 or best offer please see pictures .

[34LaSalleClubSedan]

1 hour ago, 3macboys said:

There's this one that some one hot rodded that's been for sale on Kijiji for sometime in Ontario.  When you read the description I can't believe that they did what they did to it and how much more it would be worth if it had been restored but still really like the body style.   This is one that I wonder if it could be put back to original?

 

 

Up for sale is a very rare 1931 Chrysler 5 passenger Victoria Coupe (Vicki) Only 488 where made. This car is power by a 440 Big block Chrysler with a 727 Torqueflite 3 speed autoTransmission. This car ride on Air suspension front and back has power steering , power front disk brakes, tilt steering, classic gauges, clock rear view mirror, floor lokar shifter, electric fan , 8" ford rear end, 6 wire wheels, many more features... This car is the only one known to exist here in Canada and possibly the US ..Asking $ 58,000.00 or best offer please see pictures .

Yes, it was once a very rare car. How sad

[Hudsonite]

I used to own this ‘20 Hudson Super Six 4-passenger coupe.  Classic features seen in other similar models such as front folding passenger seat, package compartment immediately behind driver seat, etc. 

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, Hudsonite said:

I used to own this ‘20 Hudson Super Six 4-passenger coupe.  Classic features seen in other similar models such as front folding passenger seat, package compartment immediately behind driver seat, etc. 

 

 

This is exactly the style I'm thinking about.    I like the later era Victoria style but there is something about the earlier style that I'm really attracted to.   On later cars,  "high hat" is the death of styling, but on these early cars they seem very regal to me.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

AJ aroind the same time we bought the 120, Tom had a 24 Packard victoria coupe, a very original unrestored but complete running car.  Took him a while to dial in market on it but I recall it was a very interesting car with the front passenger jumpseat.  I thought it was pretty cool and wonder where it ended up.

[J.H.Boland]

I once owned this rare '29 Reo Flying Cloud Victoria . It has the usual Victoria seating arrangement but one thing I found cool was the false bottom it had in the hat box behind the driver's seat. I'm told it was to conceal your prohibition era booze. The car still hasn't been restored.

[dibarlaw]

Since Jim posted an unrestored example photo I thought I would also. Here is the 1932 Buick 96 Victoria Coupe friend Peter and I whent to look at last February.

First 2 photos as we saw it buried in its tomb for over 20 years.

 

In the light of day and on a rollback going to the new owner,  Not Peter nor I.

[chistech]

Here’s a 31’ chevy 5 passenger coupe I restored a while back. A fairly rare body style for 31’ chevy.

[Tim Crowder]

On February 10, 1912 the Kline Motor Car Company in Richmond Virginia created a one off convertible coupe. This was a roadster for summer driving with a complete hard top for winter driving. I was able to obtain the original top from the Kline family and its now in the permanent collection of the Virginia Museum of History and Culture. This top is complete with both doors and all beveled glass including the windshield.

[JayG]

Here's my 1931 Buick 96 5 passenger coupe.  It has the folding front passenger seat as previously described.

[Joe in Canada]

This 32 Chevy Victoria convertible belongs to a club member up here. The car was her fathers who passed away just before the restoration was completed. My thoughts are this is the nicest year and model Chevy put out. I took this shot on one of our vintage tours up here in the north.

I have to say Lynne and I put this weekend tour on where this stop had a vintage theater and memorabilia movie collection where the car is parked. Included 4 theaters the fellow built using the decor from very old theaters. He played very old movies you could sit and watch. Or just wander around and look at the exhibits or have a picnic lunch by the river. An extremely nice spot for a tour stop and sorry for getting side tracked. Have to start a new tread on great tour stops you have been on.  

[zepher]

On 11/7/2021 at 6:24 AM, RansomEli said:

My Franklin mentor owned a 1929 Franklin Victoria Brougham. He lived in Chula Vista, CA. The paintwork was Earl Scheib, chrome was done surruptitiously at the Rohr Aircraft plating department, and upholstery was Tijuana  vinyl. But the car just looked great and ran wonderfully (my mentor was a machinist at the Coronado Navy base).

 

And I just loved the body style. He promised me the car "someday", but when he died the widow sold it to someone else. The pictures below are not the actual car. His was a pale yellow body with black fenders.

 

 

 

One of my unlces has a 1929 Franklin Victoria Brougham that he has has since the late 50's.

If I remember correctly, his has the Orion headlamps and is a great looking car.

 

[1937hd45]

I parted with my 1911 Hupmobile, but would find room for this Vicky if I had the funds. Bob 

[alsancle]

This is Dick Shappy with one of of this Cadillac's.   I've noticed that Caddy of the 1914-1920 era seemed to have this body frequently?

 

[hidden_hunter]

The basic design lasted for nearly ten years with the roof line being then part that changed the most. You can see the arrangement from the type 57’s of the mid teens through to the v63’s of the mid twenties 

[HarryLime]

I wonder if this would qualify here . I love it . 1933 Rolls Royce body by Binder-Paris .

[Walt G]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

This is Dick Shappy with one of of this Cadillac's.   I've noticed that Caddy of the 1914-1920 era seemed to have this body frequently?

 

White also offered a coupe similar to this body style in the 1910 era. Austin Clark had a blue one that he loved and drove often, the car Austin had went to Warren Kraft's ownership and then the Dragone's sold it upon Warren's demise to Mark Smith. A similar car to that was in the St Louis area in unrestored condition in the early 1970s and to the best of my knowledge was never restored and may still be in storage . That car had at least  one of the curved corner glasses broken and gone. Body looked like a giant china cabinet of the era on wheels. The St. Louis White coupe was shown to me by a fellow in the Franklin Club who knew the fellow that owned it.

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, HarryLime said:

I wonder if this would qualify here . I love it . 1933 Rolls Royce body by Binder-Paris .

Not sure about in France, but in England, a 2 or 3-passenger business coupe was often called a 'Doctor's Coupe'

 

Craig

[HarryLime]

This  RR has a full rear seat , maroon leather . Interior is trimmed in rosewood .

[kbeach]

There are some good examples of the small front passenger seat in this topic. 
Does anyone have or know of one for sale? Needed for my 1928 Stutz Victoria Coupe. It would be very close to the 1927 Stutz pictured in the first post.

Thanks

[Joe in Canada]

21 hours ago, kbeach said:

There are some good examples of the small front passenger seat in this topic. 
Does anyone have or know of one for sale? Needed for my 1928 Stutz Victoria Coupe. It would be very close to the 1927 Stutz pictured in the first post.

Thanks

Try Jeffery Person in Kansas I know he had a 30 /31 Cadillac Victoria a few years ago he was parting out. You never know and I have patterns for the passenger seat hardware if needed. Great people to deal with.

Dick Shappy in Road Island was / is doing a 31 12 cyl Victoria but I do not recommend that route at all. I dealt with him on parts and it went south real fast. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[alsancle]

This has the small passenger seat and the hat box.

 

https://www.prewarcar.com/352102-graham-paige-model-827-opera-coupe-1929

 

This impressive Graham Paige is original and untouched, a true survivor.

The designation 'Opera Coupe' refers to the unusual seating arrangement. A fixed driver's seat with a storage compartment behind it, a folding passenger seat and a 2/3rd rear seat for a lady in chic clothing. Of the six LeBaron-style bodies built by Briggs, few had this configuration.

The first owner sold it, with 59,000 miles in 1953, for $150.00. Sixty years and 7,000miles later, the current owner became the new 'keeper'. It still has its factory; paint, upholstery, interior window shades, rugs, etc. Even the lighter works!

The powerful and smooth Continental Motor, with 322 cubic inch 120 horsepower straight-eight engine and Warner 4-speed manual transmission. The chassis components include fully hydraulic brakes (recently overhauled), a working Bijur 'one-shot'lubrication system, oil filter and leather 'gaiters' on the springs.

This unique Graham Paige has won the first prize at the Concours d'Elangance Soestdijk 2019in the preservation class. And has been exhibited at the prestigious Amelia Island Concours and some cars hows in Europe.

The car is in good driving condition and has been used by the current owner for various tours.

The Graham Paige is also eligible for the Mille Miglia.

 

[oldcarfudd]

Please don't drive it in a mille miglia!

[Grimy]

I owned this 1925 Pierce-Arrow series 80 "4-passenger coupe" (factory designation in quotation marks) from 1995 to 2016, when I had to sell it for space and funds when the 1918 Pierce I had been chasing since 1998 became available.  This car was restored in 1983 and had 6,000 miles on the restoration when I acquired it, and I had put another 6,000 on it when it was photographed and subsequently sold.  The purchaser had fond memories of his mother having an identical car and he recalled sitting on the folded-down back of the dickey seat to see out the windshield.  Sadly, he passed away a couple of years later but willed the car to the Pierce-Arrow Museum at Gilmore in Hickory Corners, Michigan. The Museum's Executive Director brought the car to the 2019 PAS Meet in NE Indiana and most graciously allowed me to drive it all three touring days.

 

 

[pmhowe]

Grimy,

How would you compare the Model 80 with the 1929 and 1930 * cylinder cars? I had a 1929 PA - a coupe, not a Victoria - which I loved, but had to sell. I doubt I will ever be able to afford another, but might be able to get a Model 80 or 81. Would I be disappointed?

Thanks,

Phil

[edinmass]

Phil.....they are apples and oranges. A series 80/81 is basically a 40 mph car on the flats. A 1929 that is correct and sorted is a 55mph car..........but a 30 is a better choice for many reasons. Personally, I only own 1931 and later Pierce Arrows.......for good reason. The 1921 to 1928 cars Pierce built are fine machines, but parts availability is poor at best, driving envelope is in the “faster than slow but slower than fast” range. They are more affordable than many other similar cars but their styling can be stodgy. You can buy a 80/81 for the same money as a Model A. 

[Grimy]

17 minutes ago, pmhowe said:

Grimy,

How would you compare the Model 80 with the 1929 and 1930 * cylinder cars? I had a 1929 PA - a coupe, not a Victoria - which I loved, but had to sell. I doubt I will ever be able to afford another, but might be able to get a Model 80 or 81. Would I be disappointed?

Thanks,

Phil

Phil, I have a 1930 roadster as well, so I think I can do a decent comparison.  The S80 is 6 cyl (vs. 8 cyl for 1929-30), 289 cid (vs. 366 for all except 340 cid on 1930 C) and is much more primitive.  Now I happen to appreciative "primitive."  I still have a S80 5-p sedan which had an amateur 'refurbishment' in 1962.  As nice as the coupe is, there was a different, -- better -- feel that I can't really describe to the sedan which had never had its body off the chassis. 

 

The S80 is at best a 45 mph cruise with factory 4.45 gears (although 4.64 and 4.88 gears were specified by the factory for different sales areas).  My sedan was originally sold to SF and thus had stump-puller 4.88s which gave a cruising speed of 36-37, and engine was screaming at 40-41.  I finally installed a Mitchell 26% OD which made it a completely different car:  49-50 mph cruise, effective final drive ratio of 3.61 in OD.  Your coupe probably had 4.08 gears shared with open cars; sedans and victorias had 4.42s.  The 8-cyl cars have gobs of low-end torque compared to the S80s.

 

All S80s had 130" wheelbase.  Your 1929 coupe was 133 inches, and the LWB cars were 143 inches.  In 1930, the Model A (LWB) was 144", the Model B open cars and coupe were 134", Model B closed cars were 139", and Model C (sedan and coupe were the only body styles) had 132".

 

The S80s have adjustable main jets on the carb, so you need to slide the mixture control a bit "RICH" above 35 mph or when climbing a hill.  And, of course, you are continually thinking about the Motometer and vacuum tank reserve capacity while driving a S80.

 

As @edinmasssaid while I was typing, it's apples vs oranges.  If you don't mind "primitive" and "slower," a S80 is fine.  The build quality is the same.  If you get a S80, I recommend a refurbished original or an older high-quality restoration.  That said, I find that my dear friend Ed has always been snobby about S80s.

 

Happy to discuss further if you wish, or if you have a car in mind--PM me.

 

George AKA Grimy

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Phil.....they are apples and oranges. A series 80/81 is basically a 40 mph car on the flats. A 1929 that is correct and sorted is a 55mph car..........but a 30 is a better choice for many reasons. Personally, I only own 1931 and later Pierce Arrows.......for good reason. The 1921 to 1928 cars Pierce built are fine machines, but parts availability is poor at best, driving envelope is in the “faster than slow but slower than fast” range. They are more affordable than many other similar cars but their styling can be stodgy. You can buy a 80/81 for the same money as a Model A. 

Very interesting, thank you for an honest bit of information. You could buy speed equipment for the Model A if you wanted to cruse faster. 

 

Bob 

[edinmass]

Bob, buy a Pierce, and I will help you tweak it.......👍

[JACK M]

[ron hausmann]

All - here is a 1924 Kissel Victoria Coupe, with those same characteristics that are the subject of this topic. Kissel made quite a few of these tru the years, some four passenger, some three passenger with storage. To me, this body design is so ugly that it actually starts looking pretty good after awhile. This car is known as “der Elephant”, and like so many rare Kissels, is a one-of survivor. Original and runs.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[BucketofBolts]

The 1924 Kissell looks so tiny compared to a modern vehicle. The Victoria coupe in the photos almost looks like it should be a "car-ride" at Disneyland. 

[Tph479]

Another play on names, not a Victoria Coupe, but a Coupe Sedan….which Ford called a Victoria!

[wayne sheldon]

Ron H, I love that car! I think I had spotted it in the background of a photo you posted recently?