Car Club Declining Membership

[31 LaSalle]

I am based in the uk where I Am a member of the PRE 1950 AAC which has been established 57 years. I joined because of my love of pre 1950s american cars

the club have now decided to change the name to  AAAC  ( all american auto club )   I assume this is to increase or halt the decline of membership

by allowing any year car. should we all embrace these changes to what's seen by many younger people as an old mans hobby

what's your thoughts

 

[TAKerry]

From the outside looking in I would say yes. 

[R W Burgess]

13 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

That Wednesday part. Not for the working crowd. Aleinates most people under 65.

Just our club, up to your club to pick the day, like a Saturday morning when most people don't work. I'll be glad when I never work again. :-)

[8E45E]

From an Australian Packard Club newsletter:  https://1956goldenhawk.com/The Packardian October 2022-o.pdf

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

19 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

From an Australian Packard Club newsletter:  https://1956goldenhawk.com/The Packardian October 2022-o.pdf

 

Craig

Sad, but true and a sign of the times.

[1935Packard]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:31 AM, 8E45E said:

From an Australian Packard Club newsletter:  https://1956goldenhawk.com/The Packardian October 2022-o.pdf

 

Craig

 Quite a read.  

[James Peck]

The same seems to be happening in the tractor hobby as well. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, James Peck said:

The same seems to be happening in the tractor hobby as well. 

And from other hobbyists, I have heard:

---Toy trains

---Antique clocks

---Antique furniture

 

While we should always share enthusiasm with others,

there is no need to despair, I feel.  There is a tendency to

see a trend or a graph and think that that graph--in this

case, gradually declining popularity of the hobby--will

just continue on its current trajectory forever.  The past has

proven that such assumptions are wrong.  The future will

work out in ways that we can't envision. 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Hans1965]

I never had American cars of the 40s or 50s around me, when I grew up.  I had my first car before my father had his first ( we usually borrowed my grandpas BMW 520, if need be). Still decades later I fell in love with these big land yachts, starting with a 1981 Pontiac Firebird. The next was already my 1953 Buick, then the 56 Cadillac Coupe etc. I try to infect with my car virus as many people as I can. In fact by living this as much as I do, I hear sometimes , Hans, you are doing it right, enjoy your hobby as much as you can, we took you as example and bought a camper that we were dreaming of for many years... 

 

I am working on my cars with a 30 year young man, that is fascinated by exactly the same cars as me and he picked up this virus when he was a kid (how, I don't know) We came to know at a car meet and I let him sit behind the steering wheel of my 56 Cadillac. He was more than happy. 

 

When I go to car meets here, they are packed with people. Young people, too. Give them time to move from a VW Rabbit to something older. But that's the start. When I drive around with my cars, people are turning their heads and I hear regularly things like " what a beautiful car!". When I park with one of my oldies especially young boys always come around, dragging their mothers behind them, shy and a little afraid, but then it is on us to spark the interest and give them an experience for their little brains and hearts. I just love it. 

 

I certainly believe there will always be new care takers and interest in these cars, simply because they are drop dead beautiful. Not all youngsters look for speed and ease of use. I let my young friend drive my cars as I have absolute trust that he takes care of them as good or even better than I do. When he was driving my 49 Buick Super Convertible you could see his eyes sparkle. This young boy restored all of the gauges on my 52, perfectly, and helped me endless hours already. Currently he is replicating my car with a 3D printer on a small scale.  He measured all of the dimensions for days and took a million photos. I am stunned to see that, how it is slowly coming together. 

 

Traditional clubs, nevertheless are a thing of the past. The young want informal meetings, need no president and no news letter. Still they like to gather, just organized by social media, come and go. There is nothing bad about it. Could you imagine at 25 or 30 to go to a club with members that average 60 years of age. Noooo! 

 

Prices for cars may go down over time, lucky new buyers. Do I care? Not at all. I did not buy them as investment. Others go on cruises, I have my cars. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Hans1965 (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

One thing missing in this discussion is PARTICIPATION.   As a 50 year member of AACA (In 2023) and our local club, I have found that ,any new members want something in exchange for their dues, but fail to participate.   Participation is viewed negativily by many people, as evidenced by post membership interviews.   Some people just hate to be asked to contribute anything.    Volunteers to run for offices in the club, be on a commitee for tours, refreshments, newsletter articles, judging, parking cars at shows, leading a ride, finding speakers, membership records, etc.,etc., etc.   

Everything that happens in a local club, happens because somebody volunteered to do it.  Participation is the glue that binds us together.    50 years later our local club is still pretty dependent on many of the same old volunteers., but without new people helping we would folded years ago.   We began as a Model A Club, became a Antique Car Club, now I guess we're a Car Club.  New people with similar interests, but not identical interests.   Just more nice people enjoying the automotive hobby together.   Our annual Car Show is bigger and better and there is someting for everyone , including the non-collector public, to enjoy together.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Paul Dobbin
reposition text (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

It’s been said before but social media has probably hurt clubs more than anything else. I say that as many clubs don’t have any or have bad sites.  Just like eBay has hurt newspapers by taking away the cash cow want ads. We all use the computer to find out information much faster each day. There is little need to get that from group meetings. It use to be if you wanted to learn how to fix a king pin you would talk to someone in your club that had done it now go online and see it done instantly. We have a group of guys that get together every Saturday morning at 7:30 for breakfast and talking. No one wants to organize activities but they all relate what car shows are in the area and if any are going or if there is a good restaurant that makes for a good nights cruise. Social media is only going to play a bigger role in any club’s stability, so find young people knowledgeable and willing to set up a good site that is easy to navigate and I would bet you will see an increase in younger membership. 
Sorry for my rambling on about something said before but I really think it takes multiple reminders to get thru an old thick head like mine. I’m sure many others feel the same way and still others that don’t realize that is true. 
dave s 

Edited November 26, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[StanleyRegister]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:31 AM, 8E45E said:

From an Australian Packard Club newsletter:  https://1956goldenhawk.com/The Packardian October 2022-o.pdf

 

Craig

When the aging people pass away, why don't the people who buy their Packards join the club?  There must be about the same number of eligible Packards there as there were 20 years ago - why isn't there about the same number of club members?

[13White]

I think I am probably as interested in old cars as I have ever been; but clubs just don't really appeal to me. Maybe others feel the same. I think I can participate and enjoy even though I don't have a matching jacket.

[John_S_in_Penna]

56 minutes ago, 13White said:

 I think I can participate and enjoy even though I don't have a matching jacket.

 

A good club can boost your enjoyment of car activities immensely.

Friendships benefit everyone;  and why not participate with friends who enjoy

the same activities?

 

Knowing others, you can learn from their experience--and reciprocally

benefit others in the process.  Who has a good transmission shop close by? 

Where did you send your Buick Dnyaflow for rebuilding?  Who has a stash

of parts for a 1920 Cunningham?  Maybe you'll get to know some car executives

and gain some little-known insights.

 

When well done, it can be the difference between going on a 100-mile drive

all alone, or participating in a town parade with cheering, floats, and banners,

and bringing joy to thousands. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

And some folks enjoy keeping their own council and foregoing the inevitable cliques and petty politics of organized "fun" ........bob

[Frank DuVal]

4 hours ago, 13White said:

I think I can participate and enjoy even though I don't have a matching jacket.

And when a club fails from not enough members left to do the work, another show/tour/tech session is no longer around for you to participate in without helping to do the work. 

[13White]

21 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

And when a club fails from not enough members left to do the work, another show/tour/tech session is no longer around for you to participate in without helping to do the work. 

I don't really care for the tone of your reply; you have no idea what I participate in, or what clubs I have belonged to and for how long. I have done plenty of the work. Have a nice day.

[Frank DuVal]

I'm sorry for the tone. That's the problem with written words in a forum. One can not tell tone unless the writer is good. Nor can I tell what history precedes statements written. I can only comment on what I read, with the limited English I have, being an engineer.

[Pfeil]

17 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

I'm sorry for the tone. That's the problem with written words in a forum. One can not tell tone unless the writer is good. Nor can I tell what history precedes statements written. I can only comment on what I read, with the limited English I have, being an engineer.

You probably should have just put it below instead of quoting, but I know exactly what you are saying and it's true. When key players disappear, it all disappears. Where I'm from it's hard because it's fiercely independent. People prefer going their own way.

[hidden_hunter]

On 12/5/2022 at 10:18 AM, 13White said:

I think I am probably as interested in old cars as I have ever been; but clubs just don't really appeal to me. Maybe others feel the same. I think I can participate and enjoy even though I don't have a matching jacket.

That’s one of the problems I’ve had with clubs, I really don’t care about some squabble from 20 years ago about the primer being the wrong colour 

 

I think in some ways mergers are preferable to accepting newer cars - it basically makes the rally’s impossible for instance so why would I get involved etc

 

The other thing I’ve seen a bit (including on here) is ripping off other members, I’ve seen things sell for cheap on eBay and then someone try and flip it for hundreds more on the forums here. We wonder why people don’t want to get involved in the hobby

 

Everyones action’s both positive and negative reflect the community

Edited December 6, 2022 by hidden_hunter (see edit history)

[nick8086]

Come to think of it.. I never got an email or phone call from the local club..

 

In my 8 years in the AACA.

[JACK M]

10 hours ago, nick8086 said:

Come to think of it.. I never got an email or phone call from the local club..

 

In my 8 years in the AACA.

I've been getting post cards often lately.

[ted sweet]

i got believe region get any notification of new aaca members in their area?

[ScarredKnightfan]

So much to say to this, but many of you have already voiced my thoughts.

 

The National Monte Carlo Owners Association disbanded just prior to COVID-19; the last official convention was in 2019. I know others are trying to get another club going.

 

My Mom was a member of a book club that recently disbanded because of dwindling membership.

 

I had been invited to join a radio club, but it closed shop because they were losing members.

 

A local writer's group in town stopped meeting because of so many online writing workshops. While I sometimes participate in the virtual options, I sure miss the in person gatherings and discussions.

 

Today's world is so much different in so many ways than the heydays of cruise nights and organizations-clubs. BUT, I still see hope. Participation is definitely key.

 

 

Cort, pig and cow valves with pacemaker
2003 MGM LS + 1981 cmc SC; need 1975 Chrysler Cordoba
"I don't know if there'll be snow" | Burl Ives | 'Have A Holly Jolly Christmas'

[Steve Moskowitz]

3 hours ago, ted sweet said:

i got believe region get any notification of new aaca members in their area?

If I understand what you really meant to say, no we do it the other way around.  We let new members know of regions in their area.  We also from time to time help interested regions in learning about unaffiliate members in their area.  All the region has to do is ask us.

[marcapra]

On 11/15/2022 at 11:12 AM, 8E45E said:

I'm finding that with vintage radios that only play AM.  

 

No one listens to AM anymore, and shortwave as we know is more or less obsolete with online streaming.

 

Craig

True, that's why I plug an Ipod into the phono jacks of my 1930 Edison radio and bingo, I get Internet radio or my Itunes.  I know radio people will say that's cheating, but at least I can listen to something besides AM radio.  

[rodneybeauchamp]

Thought I would share my two bobs worth. 😀😀😀😀😀

In Australia we have “Historic/Concessional” registration for vehicles 25 years or older, including LHD, modified, hot rods and restored/original vehicles. This gives 90days of use per year. Some states are more restrictive in use but so far in South Australia we have no restrictions on where we choose to drive. We have a log book system that must be filled out each day and there are penalties if not filled out.

 

In order to gain concessional registration you MUST BELONG TO AN APPROVED CAR CLUB.

 

OK so I joined my local area car club (mixed makes) that is ten minutes from me but found they were more into social events that happened mid week (most members were retired) than into car stuff. I was working so that precluded me from going to many in the first few years. (It was also annoying)

 

In the last two years they decided to drop both automotive swapmeets and a toy fair as they were too difficult to organise, yet these were the primary source of the clubs external income! (300 plus members)

 

They also insisted that members had to attend a minimum number of meetings or events to qualify as a member. (Thank goodness for Covid and not being able to attend!)

 

And they raised membership fees this year. (Why????)

 

 

So early this year, I joined another club that focuses on American GM cars (and allows other American based makes too)

 

1. Fees for this club are about $40.00 per year CHEAPER!

2. The club puts on events and pays for members and partners admissions (Film night at a cinema, tram museum visit, Christmas luncheon)

3. Uses social media Facebook for events and communications as well as text and email.

4. Electronic newsletter only (I think)

5. Rent a club room for meetings.

6. No raffles

 

Their major income source is the one car show per year that they ask all members to help with which provides enough monies to cover room hire, insurance etc.

 

So far, I have really enjoyed my time with this new group as their philosophy regarding members seems to align with my thinking also. So even though meetings will be a 180km round trip (over 100miles) I am far happier to attend. And funny, they all seem to be interested in the cars too!

 

So car clubs are not all doom and gloom, it is just a matter of finding one that fits! 😀😀😀😀😀😀

[ted sweet]

i wouldnt like 90 days per year

[1935Packard]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:58 AM, StanleyRegister said:

When the aging people pass away, why don't the people who buy their Packards join the club?  There must be about the same number of eligible Packards there as there were 20 years ago - why isn't there about the same number of club members?

 

Could be that a small number of collectors are gobbling up a lot of cars, or that cars are being inherited by family members that aren't very interested in car club membership.  Both explanations are consistent with the same number of cars logging fewer miles per car; they are around, but not as often on the road.  But I think it's also the reasons noted above; younger people today aren't as interested in the "club model" of paying dues and getting a newsletter.  

[rodneybeauchamp]

1 hour ago, ted sweet said:

i wouldnt like 90 days per year

Ted, I thought that initially myself, however most members I speak with can’t make 90days per year.
 

That is almost every weekend for two days. And like many, if you have two vehicles then 180days.

 

I found I could register a vehicle (concessional) for three years for much less than it cost to register full time. So the economics makes good sense. And the full insurance cover is also way less than if registered full time.

 

But it might not suit everyone!

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀

[Frank DuVal]

Oh, 90 days here and there, not 90 days consecutive. Then I understand and that is not so bad.

[hidden_hunter]

1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said:

Oh, 90 days here and there, not 90 days consecutive. Then I understand and that is not so bad.

Yep, we basically just have to fill in a log book that you have to produce if asked 

 

Victoria is 45 days inititially and then you can request another 45 days - outside of the fact it's cheaper rego, I believe some of the thinking was about trying to make it less practical to run wedding car hire businesses etc on cheaper registration

[rodneybeauchamp]

16 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

Yep, we basically just have to fill in a log book that you have to produce if asked 

 

Victoria is 45 days inititially and then you can request another 45 days - outside of the fact it's cheaper rego, I believe some of the thinking was about trying to make it less practical to run wedding car hire businesses etc on cheaper registration

One of the requirements is that you cannot use the vehicle for hire or reward.

 

18 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Oh, 90 days here and there, not 90 days consecutive. Then I understand and that is not so bad.

And it is any day or days you chose. For a tour lasting several days, fill in the log book each day. That is not onerous, just the date, destination and signature. If others drive your vehicle they need to fill it out also that day.
 

Main thing is to make sure it is filled in before the journey. If not, you are driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle with all the penalties that entails.

 

This system works fine for me and when I was running two classic cars, would struggle to complete 90 days on each.

BTW each club issues the log books and keeps a register as part of the system.

 

Have never been pulled over or asked to check my log book so far.

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀

[0001]

I come and read here a lot but seldom(if ever) post on this forum and I suppose some of you will flame me for this one. Over the last month or so of this thread I had to laugh and shake my head in disgust over some of the things written and it's shown me just how far out of touch some people are. 

One glaring problem I've seen here is the attitude towards younger car people and modern technology. Several times here people have posted how the younger generation is not interested in old cars, history, etc.  This could not be further from the truth! The cars are still out there, owned by someone, and the population (and potential member pool) has never been bigger. I'm in my early 50s which probably makes me one of the younger ones here. I've been into old cars, tractors, hit and miss engines and history in general most of my life. I own a couple prewar cars and was a past member of the CLC. I talk to younger people all the time who are very much into the same things I am and very enthusiastic about it. So why don't they join your clubs? Short answer: It's YOU! The members who've run these clubs since the 60s are still trying to run them like it's the 60s. The general attitude that young people aren't interested shows, and it keeps people away. Why do you think they aren't interested? Is it because they can't yet afford a show quality car like yours? Is it because they don't buy the reprint manuals off your swap meet table or because they don't sign up for your Tuesday afternoon, $100 per plate luncheon. Maybe it's just because you've done nothing to get them interested.

With technology, there's no information that can't be acquired within seconds on a smart phone or computer. I had to laugh at those complaining that they aren't getting a printed membership list anymore. Seriously, who today wants their mailbox and end table cluttered up with expensive printed books, manuals and newsletters that can be accessed immediately, anywhere, anytime online? The thought that you have to be in a club and go to meetings to get information and find cars and parts today is a joke. Parts and information that used to take years of searching for can now be located in seconds on the internet, I don't need to take half a day, travel to a meeting and buy dinner to find out from another club member that their Nephews sons friend's cousin "might" know where to find the part I need. Younger people work and have children, they can't do weekday events, they can't travel two states away and spend thousands for a club event and they tire quickly from the older members talking down their cars that may not meet the "standards" or worse yet, blowing off a young person with a really good car as if they don't deserve it or maybe shouldn't be able to afford it at that stage in life. Nothing irritates me more than an older person looking at a proud younger persons project car and making comments like "They ruined that one", or "If you can't afford to restore it right then you shouldn't have it at all."  All of those scenarios have happened to me at different times in my life and yes, it turned me off to organized clubs and the hobby in general.  At least those young ones are involved, working on and learning about the cars and as they get older and have more time and money they'll get better cars and make them right...unless of course the older crowd frustrates them and they quit the hobby.

I can and do, go to car related events nearly every weekend and hang out with like minded people from children to those in their 90s and 99% of those events and people have no affiliation with a "club". The enthusiasm for cars, both antique and new is still strong, it's just approached in a modern way. Clubs and their members have failed to keep up, technology, online social networking and the attitude that anyone younger isn't interested has left them behind to die a slow death. I don't write any of this to be mean, it's just an uncomfortable reality. If you still can't figure out why no one see's the need to pay dues to be in your "club", well...it's that out of touch mentality that's the root of the problem, not the cars or the people.

[Jim Skelly]

I agree with most of what you say, but "there's no information that can't be acquired within seconds on a smart phone or computer" is greatly exaggerated.  

[1912Staver]

Jim's comment is spot on. Yes, information pertaining to newer / older but quite common makes, models is easy to find.  But no, once you get beyond the most popular 70 % or so of vehicles information dries up rapidly. Either on line or for that matter in print. That is what makes ownership  / restoraton of the orphans and oddballs extremely time consuming and difficult.

 Same with regards to parts, the further you get away from the mainstream the exponentially difficult the parts situation becomes. Pre 1925 and other than Ford almost no parts exist, at least not from commercial venders who will have things listed on a website.

 Had I  decided to restore a 1962  Impala 22 years ago I would have been driving it probably 15 years ago. But I wanted a medium size,Brass Car and could not possibly afford a running example.

So a 1912 , 40 HP , basket case entered my life. 22 years { I know exactly when I bought it because it was about a month after my son was born } in and still a very long way to go. The car has been hobby owned since at least the early postwar years. Each owner has found a bit more for it, and restored a few more parts of it. But I doubt it will be running within my life time. Thats about 75 years ,and counting of bit by bit restoration in the hands of at least 5 early car guys. 

 If it was a matter of doing a few quick web searches , a few UPS deliverys and starting her up I would have done it years ago. I guess actually you could go that route . Send a few emails, drop the whole mess off at one of the handfull of shops that have the ability to undertake this sort of work. And drop off a cheque for a couple of hundred G's. If only !

  Really just a reminder that there is not a one size fits all situation in the old car hobby. Clubs, parts, budgets, IT strategies, you name it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

4 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

But no, once you get beyond the most popular 70 % or so of vehicles information dries up rapidly. Either on line or for that matter in print. That is what makes ownership  / restoration of the orphans and oddballs extremely time consuming and difficult.

True! Just Google information on servicing a Graham. Glad I joined GOCI! GO ahead, find the pattern to make a water distribution tube. It IS in the club's database.

 

But the part about people looking down their nose at younger people's cars kept me out of AACA for 35+ years. If it wasn't fully restored, the members of the local club back then poo-pooed it and ignored the owner, go away kid, you bother me, like WC Fields.

[JV Puleo]

12 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

I agree with most of what you say, but "there's no information that can't be acquired within seconds on a smart phone or computer" is greatly exaggerated.  

I also agree...in fact, I'd say the original statement is utterly absurd and not applicable to any subject studied seriously, not just old cars. The internet is a fine source of information for a High School term paper...if you are able to filter out the erroneous (which very few are able to do). A good friend of mine, a retired professor at Trinity College in Dublin, once said "the internet is the most efficient means of disseminating bad information that has ever been invented."

 

As far as cars go...once you get back before 1925, as 1912Staver has noted, real information and parts are virtually non-existent. There are no shop manuals (and never were any), the period literature, like owner's manuals, tells you very little about how things worked much less how they went together. And, the more obscure the car, the more difficult this likely is. The company that built my car went out of business in 1924...their printed material (most of which I have) is full of errors because they prepared it before the cars were actually built and then changed the design, apparently continuously, throughout production. Comparing this to something like a '55 Chevy is tantamount to "apples & oranges."

[MCHinson]

4 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

But the part about people looking down their nose at younger people's cars kept me out of AACA for 35+ years. If it wasn't fully restored, the members of the local club back then poo-pooed it and ignored the owner, go away kid, you bother me, like WC Fields.

Sorry to hear that you had that experience. There is obviously a lot of variation in different chapters and regions of AACA. I was a young poor police officer with what I now realize was a fairly crappy Model A Ford when I was first introduced to our local AACA Chapter. I was welcomed with open arms, encouraged, and made to feel like an important member of the club. I have now been a retired Police Lieutenant for over a decade and am still active in that club. Our club, while not perfect, is a good group of folks who as a group are welcoming to newcomers. Our local club is also growing, not shrinking. I think that the right leadership, the right attitude, and the right local activities can go a long way to keeping the future bright for any club.   

[1912Staver]

A number of posts have mentioned that car club membership does not feature all that many younger people bcause of various reasons . Time and money seem to be the most mentioned. 

 Here is a data point that I found in a 1964 issue of the Model A Ford club magazine.  The photo is the best I can manage , my scanner is kaput.

 It shows the age of the Model A club members in 1964. the center 3 catagories where the lion's share of the members were found covered the ages 20 - 49, the average age in 1964 was 35.5 years. from 50 years old to 60 years old numbers dropped off rapidly. From 60 - 70 only 2.6 % of the members were that old.

 I realize Model A Ford's were not all that old in 1964, but did the younger generation in 1964 really have that more time and disposible income compared to the same age groups today ?

 A similar age chart of current AACA members ages would be interesting as a comparison. I have a feeling that those currently over 60 would be a lot more than 2.6 % of the 2022 membership.