Are restoration "projects" becoming less popular?

[JamesR]

Seems like many in the boomer generation once took great pride in bringing a rusty abandoned vehicle back to life. As we - and the cars - get older, however, it seems like it's harder to do. And I sense a really strong "save money and buy it restored rather than restoring it yourself" sentiment, which I perfectly understand.

 

I'm in my early 60's and I'm working on my second "driving project" - bringing back a  car that's already running and driving (65 T-Bird) into a more presentable condition (with the limited tools, resources and experience at my disposal.) It's the easiest type of restoration - in fact I call it "refurbishment" out of respect for people who do real restorations  - yet it's hard enough (for me) that I won't ever do it again. Oh, and expensive, too.

 

Just wondering if serious restoration guys are also less likely to become involved in projects in 2020 than they were 15 years ago. If so, what will happen to those old cool vehicles that have been abandoned decades ago, but are still in solid structural condition? I put a '57 DeSoto wagon project  I found on ebay (i.e., not mine, but an interesting car) on the for-sale forum. The bidding is up to $3100 with a couple of days left, which means it's wanted by someone, but I'm wondering what are the chances it will be restored vs. made into a rat rod by a younger person? Or just become an as-is item that's endlessly flipped?

Edited July 10, 2020 by JamesR (see edit history)

[zepher]

I think project cars are becoming far less desirable than they were in past decades.

I see the decline being related to the overall cost of even a basic restoration and the dwindling knowledge base needed during any type of restoration.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by zepher (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

We are in the midst of a refurbishment (30 A) & it is rewarding to see the improvements.  All chassis components being done this year, admittedly with a small one man restoration pro doing a lot.  I am already into this car for what a shiny, maybe older restoration would be however it is fun to see the incremental improvements.

 

I would say time is the biggest obstacle for me.  I have seen great restorations done by hobbyists (meaning complete teardown and seeing things through) 3 ways:  by someone young enough to not be involved with a career and family, a HS friend did one that took him 3 or 4 summers, I got to help a bit, and 40 years on he still has it, or in retirement or on nights and weekends for workin folks, that can take decades, especially on a more complex car.

 

I would like to do one in retirement, likely a Ford, we'll see.

 

My same friend also has a 40 Packard acqiured soon after he finished his Chevy.  Also about the same time full time employment started.  He back cornered the Packard sometime in late 80s, picked it back up maybe 7 years ago and is close, but not there yet.  Fits and starts, shorter term projects can be more fun. Also, I think he wants to sell that one so less motivation and even though he is talented, surely the temptation is there to cut a corner here and there. 

 

Completed cars are cheaper in the long run but restorations and even refurbishments, or what I might call end to end sorting has it's rewards.

 

Just like maintaining a very original car and... (to steal John M's tagline 😁)

Edited July 10, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[F&J]

The pony ride is over.  Very few people want do any restoration for quite a few years now, and it won't ever go back., it's getting worse.

 

Variety of reasons, too many to type.

 

One thought flaw in many long term collectors of project cars or even owning just one sitting for decades, is saying you'll restore it after retirement. because:

 

...I've always thought that they "let" us retire into our later 60's because they know we are worn out and tire easily.   Trying to do a full restoration starting in your mid 60's might be a shocker when you realize that spending 5 or more years doing one as another daily job, you might quit right away when you know the clock of life is ticking away, and you'd rather enjoy a simple life rather than work so hard again.

 

One bright side of owning a stalled project for decades, is that many have at least found the parts they needed over those years, and that definitely gives better odds at finishing a prewar car or newer one that is not well supported by lots of aftermarket parts. 

34 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I put a '57 DeSoto wagon project  I found on ebay on the for-sale forum. The bidding is up to $3100 with a couple of days left, which means it's wanted by someone, but I'm wondering what are the chances it will be restored vs. made into a rat rod by a younger person? Or just become an as-is item that's endlessly flipped?

Wagons of that era have been in good demand for quite a while now.  Those buyers primarily are wanting to drive them as much as possible as they are like part truck and useful.  A few are show restored that I see, but most people will just fix it up and run it.

[39BuickEight]

Overall car assembly and mechanical knowledge continues to decline, while the cost of the restoration process continues to rise.  The result is fewer driveway projects are started, and fewer still finished.

 

example, my father taught me maybe half of what he knew, and I will probably do the same with my kids

Edited July 10, 2020 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

4 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Overall car assembly and mechanical knowledge continues to decline, while the cost of the restoration process continues to rise.  The result is fewer driveway projects are started, and fewer still finished.

 

example, my father taught me maybe half of what he knew, and I will probably do the same with my kids

 

Sadly, this is exactly correct. Nearly every automotive forum that I frequent is composed primarily of people who take their older cars to their "mechanic", who usually has even less of a clue as to how to fix it. No one seems capable of doing anything themselves anymore.

[1935Packard]

 

25 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Overall car assembly and mechanical knowledge continues to decline, while the cost of the restoration process continues to rise.  The result is fewer driveway projects are started, and fewer still finished.

 

example, my father taught me maybe half of what he knew, and I will probably do the same with my kids

 

Yup.  Speaking as a (relatively) younger forum member who was never taught how to do anything on a car, the only realistic way I could get into the old car hobby was to be ready to hire mechanics to fix things.  

[edinmass]

Most of the above IS ACCURATE..........but there is hope.........I think we will begin to see speciality guys doing component restoration...........total coach building from scratch will just about disappear, but service and rebuilding of the components will stay around. I expect my future will be sorting old restorations that have not been run in years, and fixing the issues the owners didn't even know they had when the car was freshly restored. There is a lot of interest in driving and owning the cars....just not dumping in money by the boatload to own it. I think we will actually see some pre war stuff make it to the crusher....the hard leftover projects.......maybe they will be cherry picked for good spares, but there are going to be more cars than owners for a lot of the off brand sedans that were poor drivers when new. On the bright side, I will be able to buy a few cars every year or two, play with them, and then pass them off and find another interesting one. The good stuff is still getting better.........its the bottom 35 percent of the market that is going to hell.

[JamesR]

51 minutes ago, F&J said:

I've always thought that they "let" us retire into our later 60's because they know we are worn out and tire easily.   Trying to do a full restoration starting in your mid 60's might be a shocker when you realize that spending 5 or more years doing one as another daily job, you might quit right away when you know the clock of life is ticking away, and you'd rather enjoy a simple life rather than work so hard again.

 

One bright side of owning a stalled project for decades, is that many have at least found the parts they needed over those years, and that definitely gives better odds at finishing a prewar car or newer one that is not well supported by lots of aftermarket parts. 

 

 

"Another daily job"...this is so true. And a job that you don't get paid for...and when you run into problems, there's no immediate support staff to guide you. Can be demoralizing. That's why I even take several-day long breaks on my current easy project if I run into too many issues. Of course, if you're redoing a 1st gen. Mustang or '55 Chevy, the job is made easier by the enormous aftermarket industry that supports vehicles like that, but I wonder what will happen to those industries of the restoration boom ends.

[alsancle]

"Less popular" is an understatement.   "Extinct" seems closer to what I see.   That doesn't mean there isn't lots and lots of maintenance work for any shop that stays open,  but I see the days of the ground up restoration as over.

 

Ed,  you will do a great job sorting and it will be better than the alternative of digging ditches.

[TerryB]

It’s not common to see dad or grandpa with his head under the hood anymore.  Cars are too complicated and it takes specialized tools to do the work.  Young people are not as exposed to fixing things themselves as the world has become more disposable, it’s easier to buy a new one than fix the old.  In my time as a Boy Scout leader the other leaders and I taught kids how to do things with tool and many were excited to do it.  We made birdhouses, built things as public service projects and in general tried to fix what we could ourselves.  We even did automotive stuff like holding a meeting at the garage of an independent local repair shop.  It’s the exposure to DIY that is not common as it once was.  In defense of taking it to a mechanic vs DIY here are two photos of Chevy engines, which one would you like to work on?  No brainer  for me which one I would take to a professional mechanic.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by TerryB (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

I live in the heart of antique-car territory, with many

restoration shops and supporting specialties around.

The shops here are always busy, with waiting lists--

even through recessions.

 

I don't see myself as slowing down in my interests.

I tend to like the less-often-seen cars--whether it's

an uncommon pre-war marque or a more common

1970's car in an unusual conversation-starting color

combination.  For those, you usually have to take a

decent car you find and bring it up to show condition.

 

I'm not having off-the-frame restorations done, but

I'm doing my share to keep the upholstery shops,

chrome replaters, body men etc. occupied!

 

[SC38dls]

One major problem with saying you will do it when you retire is a lot of us can’t retire in our 60’s anymore. I’m 74 and the only reason I am now retired is the virus killed my business. I was set to step back next year, turning it over to my employees with me only being in an unpaid advisory position until they were comfortable managing it. Thankfully my only daughter has no interest in it. But that plan is gone. 
Now I have the time, maybe the money but I would be taking it from other current plans/ideas my better half has. So just keeping the 38 Studebaker refreshed and running as a daily driver will be the only project this broken down old guy will take on.  
Hopefully the younger generation will take up the slack we old folks are slowing down with. 
dave s 

[60FlatTop]

Over the years I have accrued five "collector to me" cars. They all run, drive, and are licensed; reliable and ready to go. Always a list of to do things but generally saleable. I am considering selling three and buying some basket case. I find the daydreaming, planning, and organization process to be equal or better than driving at times, especially when there are choices of cars. I will be 73 in a couple of months.

I have been active in the hobby all my life and always driven and maintained my cars. And maintained a good network of friends and businesses for support. It is business as usual for me.

Where I see the old guys struggling is the person who wants to pick up where foggy memories left off as they chose a career path and family early in life and don't really know what they are overlooking at the late entry. Kind of a Kodachrome syndrome. I read that into the Forum and my general routine of car stuff.

 

Purchases of restoration projects certainly may be low. Laughably low. I started a picture file called "SunkIn" a few years ago. It is a whole collection of of advertisement pictures of the most poorly presented cars I have ever seen. I am sure these sellers are whining about the market. These are real horror pictures. Most I look at and think, couldn't you just hook a chain to the car and drag it one tire rotation to get it to ground level. There was one shot inside an abandoned service garage where the dirt on the cars was washed away and a line of rust across three decklids from condensation dripping down off a cold water line. Stuff like that doesn't sell well. How about that garage with the 20 fore lorn Lincolns recently. I have been buying, cleaning, and selling those cars to fund my habit for half a century and hope to do it another 30 years. Most of mine sell in a couple days. Using online formats, 12 to 18 hours. But they look good and I add some spiff value.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Guy I am working with messaged me wed to apologize for delay on phase II, rear brakes, spring, clutch.  He is building brakes up and we will exchange, here when we pull rear to do clutch.  Heis a little delayed due to A & T engine jobs.  Little guys with skills have some time left...

 

 

[padgett]

I do not usually have "project cars" but a running/driving 1999 SLK with good cosmetics for less than a grand ? Point is kids today can buy cars familiar to them just like we could long ago for little (probabaly less than anything equivalent from the 50s) or nothing so unless there is a family tie, why look further back ?

[TAKerry]

Not sure how much fact is in the above conjecture.2017-11-09_12-04-53 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr

Here is my car that I did a complete resto on. Not a single nut or bolt that wasnt touched. I did everything, including lots of panel work to get rid of the rusty bits, except the motor. Yes, it does take a commitment, in my case about 5 years. I am a carpenter by trade, build fine furniture as a hobby and never worked on a car in my life. I wanted to try something different than woodwork for a change and decided to give cars a shot. I took this project on when I was about to turn 50. I read just about every car publication I can get my hands on, and there is the same rhetoric, that the car hobby is dying. I have been reading this for years now. I believe there is just a change of guard so to speak. My guess there are quite a few people on here that wouldnt even consider my car above an antique. But there are plenty of younger guys that still enjoy the car hobby, that may not have a clue what a brass car is. The more things change the more they are the same. I am currently working on another restoration project hoping to be done within the next year. I am just a one man band working out of my garage, I think there are still some of us left.

[W_Higgins]

There have always been people in this hobby that sub-out work.  That is nothing new.  To me the biggest difference is that people used to love and collect objects and now they are more inclined to collect experiences.  It's a long drawn out thing to debate why but that's what I see -- many people would rather spend their money on a cruise than an object they park in their garage.  The antique furniture, clock, and other markets are suffering the same issues.  People don't want all the care and feeding that comes with owning "stuff".

 

 

[padgett]

Must admit that a 78 WS-6 (8 inch wheels & 4 wheel disks) with a 4-speed (T/A 6.6) and T-Tops would be hard to resist.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Kerry, how many hours into your restoration?  Looks really nice, btw!

Edited July 10, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

6 hours ago, JamesR said:

I sense a really strong "save money and buy it restored rather than restoring it yourself" sentiment,

 

The problem with doing that is your new "toy" is just that, another toy. I don't see any  pride of accomplishment or joy of ownership in buying another person's dreams. But that's just me. Your results may vary.............Bob

Edited July 10, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Plenty of Pre-WWII cars being done - it is just really expensive and for most you cannot buy parts from any more than a really specialized person (who typically has just reinvented the wheel as they could not find what they needed) and even that is often tough.

 

What is sad is when someone buys something to get in way over their head matched to not buying critical reproduction parts when they are commonly available (friends are restoring a 1930 Packard 740 Roadster and it would have been a ton easier and less costly project if the owner had picked up some prized parts 10, 20, and 30 years ago).   

 

And, it took 1000's of people to make it to begin with. 

 

"I am going to ... " = famous last words

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

When I was a kid 50 or 60 years ago you could walk down the street on a nice Saturday morning and there would be  one guy building a picket  fence, another tuning up  his car, another working on his boat, or planting rose bushes. Everybody did everything for themselves. You don't see that anymore. It seems young guys today know whatever they do for a living just barely enough to get by, and professional sports on TV.Anything else and they are completely ignorant. But would be offended if you said so.

 

I first noticed the difference when trying to sell some project cars in the 80s. Was surprised that some cars would not sell for $500 but would sell for $2500 if they ran and drove. I did fix some of them, doing $200 worth of work for $2000 is ok by me but did not have time to get them all going. Eventually sold them or parted them out but learned a lesson, times have changed, project cars today are very little in demand.

[keithb7]

I’m 49. Am I an old guy or a young guy? I am not a formally licensed mechanic. I took shop class in high school and got the bug. I specifically remember learning all about primary and secondary ignition systems. To this day, the ignition system image projected on the screen in class, and my teacher Mr. Doi, is still very fresh in my mind. I had no idea that in 2020 I’d be using those same principles to set the dwell in my 1938 Plymouth. 
 

I purchased a mostly stock 1938 Plymouth in 2019. A good price. It ran, but barely. It was indeed in the wrong hands at the time. The poor car was cobbled together.  I took it home. All last fall and winter I worked on every system in the car.  I brought that car back to life. Since I put the car on the road this spring. I’ve almost put 500 miles on it, so far. 

 

I am far from a qualified restoration person either. I’ve never restored a car before. However so far  I’ve done all the work myself. Its been a fantastic and very rewarding experience. I rebuilt my first tranny. I rewired my first electrical system. Re-bearing’d and re-sealed my first axles. Rebuilt my first complete brake system. On and on the list goes. The only professional  I paid, was to replace the exhaust system with new. Custom built.   

 

I will admit that I am not throwing huge cash at my ‘38. I am frugal. I hope to retire someday, and my preferred date is getting closer. So currently, I save alot more pennies than I spend. My old car is my hobby. I have no plans to try and sell it for what I put into it. However, saying that, I also don’t want to put $20k plus into a car that would sell for $12K probably. 

 

Many 20-ish kids relish my ‘38 Plymouth. They do show lots of interest. That’s encouraging. However, I agree most don’t seem to have a clue about car repairs or maintenance. They are literally stunned when I tell them I’m mostly just a self taught hack mechanic. That I do all my own work. I tell them I started turning wrenches when I was 16. I had to. I could only afford wore out, junk cars. 33 years later I’m still at it. 
 

I guess I’m sorta an odd duck compared to most people. When I go on vacation, for a book I’ve been known to bring along my 1942 Dyke’s manual to study up. 

 

I started a You Tube channel to share my old-car learnings. I pass along instructions and tips that I have learned. My hope is that someday in the future, some young car fans will be inspired to pick up a wrench and dig in. 
 

Tonight my wife and our adult son, went our for a cruise in my ‘38. He’s 23. He enjoys the old car. He likes the styling and nostalgia. I have taught him to wrench on his own car. He has assisted me several times in the garage. As I too assist him look after his year 2000 car. Last fall he tore down my spare 1949 flathead 6 engine. He gets the whole car maintenance and repair thing. He’s no gear head. He’s an Accountant. Will he want to follow in my footsteps someday? Looking after my ‘38 when I cannot? I’m not sure yet. However at 23, I too had no interest in a 1938 car. I grew into the hobby. My son asked me tonight, “Dad will you own this car when it turns 100?”. I replied, “I sure hope so... 18 more years to go. “ We both smiled. 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Don't believe everything you read.  We have been restoring professionally for 42 years and are busier now than ever and we hear the same from other restoration shops.  We recently booked 3  new complete frame up restos  (a '21, a'16, a '58 and a '57)  and have had more calls for work in the last year than I can remember.  We recently hired another mechanic and another painter/bodyman.  

[edinmass]

16 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Don't believe everything you read.  We have been restoring professionally for 42 years and are busier now than ever and we hear the same from other restoration shops.  We recently booked 3  new complete frame up restos  (a '21, a'16, a '58 and a '57)  and have had more calls for work in the last year than I can remember.  We recently hired another mechanic and another painter/bodyman.  

 

I agree all the good shops are very busy.......but there are less and less of them every year. The hobby will not go away, and it’s likely to pick up as many cars become much more affordable as the market realigns. The supply and demand balance for workers is the biggest issue today. The skill set to be a good or great restoration technician is hard to find for one reason...........not only do you need to have good skills with your hands, you need to have a decent head on your shoulders.  Add it all up and most people today just don’t want to work in an industry that’s making your hands dirty and can be physically hard on you body. 

[F&J]

26 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Don't believe everything you read.  We have been restoring professionally for 42 years and are busier now than ever and we hear the same from other restoration shops. 

Your reply backs up what most of the replies have said.  Meaning that the original question in post one asks if "people" (individual hobbyists) are not restoring cars as much as in the past.  Anybody that thinks there are just as many of those individuals still buying projects and jumping right in like the old days, are mistaken.  That's backed up by the dismal prospects of trying to sell a project car in the last decade, and it's definitely getting worse. 

 

Your 2nd sentence is only about what you see as a restoration shop for well funded people who never did any of their own work. There seems to be less shops to choose from that are still willing to do older cars, so that also sends more jobs to shops that still survive. There is only one repair shop in my area that will even accept vintage cars for repairs or minor servicing.

 

I read along on your own sales ad on the 1933 Packard conv project, and as time went by, I could sense that you were perhaps shocked by the lack of interest by saying "I guess I'll part it out, anybody want to buy just the rear body shell?"

 

(I was almost done typing this when Ed made his reply that backs up what I said)

 

One last recent observation on the AACA thread about what car would you go back in time to buy as a new car....I was a bit surprised that over 90% were somewhat modern cars, with just a scant few that mentioned prewars.

 

 

[alsancle]

15 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

There have always been people in this hobby that sub-out work.  That is nothing new.  To me the biggest difference is that people used to love and collect objects and now they are more inclined to collect experiences.  It's a long drawn out thing to debate why but that's what I see -- many people would rather spend their money on a cruise than an object they park in their garage.  The antique furniture, clock, and other markets are suffering the same issues.  People don't want all the care and feeding that comes with owning "stuff".

 

Do you think that has something to do with getting to a certain age?   I've observed that in general people spend the first 70% of their lives accumulating stuff and the last 30% trying to get rid of it.   Somewhere there is a transition from objects to experience for a lot of people (but not all).  

 

Or is this just a variation of the famous "3 P's of collecting":    Pursue, Purchase, Pleasure.    The "Pleasure" being emphasized more as you get older?

[alsancle]

46 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

I agree all the good shops are very busy.......but there are less and less of them every year. The hobby will not go away, and it’s likely to pick up as many cars become much more affordable as the market realigns. The supply and demand balance for workers is the biggest issue today. The skill set to be a good or great restoration technician is hard to find for one reason...........not only do you need to have good skills with your hands, you need to have a decent head on your shoulders.  Add it all up and most people today just don’t want to work in an industry that’s making your hands dirty and can be physically hard on you body. 

 

Like the proverbial stopped clock,  Eddy is 100% right.    The only part I'm not completely sure of is interest picking up as cars become more affordable.   I think that leisure interests change over time and puttering with cars may go out of style as basic mechanical skills diminish and parts availability dries up.

[edinmass]

I confess to agreeing with the “I am 100 percent right” portion of you comment. It shows incredible insight on your part! 🤣

 

What is really changing is how people spend their off time and entertain themselves. I just don’t get the video game thing.........And now I try to watch almost no tv, as it seems there isn’t anything worth my time watching......at all. Even the news, which for many years I enjoyed is so dam corrupt, full of talking heads who don’t even know one thing about history, science, or can’t have an intelligent conversation with people they are interviewing.............I find much more time for my car stuff..........I’m sure I am way too deep into the hobby/work/passion of pre war cars, but it seems much more harmless and better for my mental health to spend time in the shop than just about anywhere else except a show or tour. I’m becoming the old grumpy curmudgeon that all my early car mentors were.......and I’m enjoying it. Trying to teach these young people today how to fix something is just a waste of my time. They all want to be McGiver and only put in one weeks work of effort to get there. I find the companionship of my dashboard, wheel, and shifter the most appealing way to pass some free time now............the exhaust note and over run of a big pre war engine is my music......no radio needed. Just the open road and a tank of gas. Breakfast is over.......time to take out some ridiculously cool car for a spin.............what shall it be????? I’m feeling the need for speed..........or, in this particular moment, the need for Speedster............the 851 variety! 😷

PS- I’m looking forward to next week, rolling up my sleeves and dialing in a totally new type of platform for me. Maybe I should say “rolling up my sleeve valves”!

Edited July 11, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

I don't know what it's like where you guys live but real estate prices in Melbourne makes it difficult for people to be able to afford space for a project (they have shot up significantly in the last 20 years) 

[MCHinson]

I don't think that they are any less popular, just a bit less affordable for many people. The changes in technology and the education system do mean fewer people have the experience of doing maintenance on their own cars and thus fewer people feel competent to work on older cars (or newer cars). The economy over the past decade or so has also caused shrinking of the middle class that used to be the sweet spot for home restoration. I am a retired law enforcement officer. Due to my pension and my own small business, I am in better position financially to enjoy the hobby now than I was earlier. I have spent the last three years restoring a 1938 Buick Century. It was fun and a lot of friends have followed it on this forum as well as facebook. The imminent death of the hobby has been being lamented for many decades but it is still here. HPOF seems to have become more popular than total restoration. As newer cars become hobby cars, many of them are "modern" enough that they are reliable enough and take less mechanical work, so it is easier and cheaper to simply maintain them than restore them. I think that is another reason you find less people doing full (expensive) restorations. There will always be room in the hobby for these multiple facets of the hobby.    

[SC38dls]

Restorer32. The industry/hobby is even better than you say. In my book a 21, a16, a 58 and a 57 would be 4 not 3 but I’m an old guy doing old math. LOL

 

dave s 

[F&J]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I think that leisure interests change over time and puttering with cars may go out of style as basic mechanical skills diminish and parts availability dries up.

The Boomer generation is what was continuing the hobby of fixing up an antique car.  20 odd years ago some Boomers facing middle age crisis all had to have a big new Harley which led to a one year waiting list on a new one, which made used ones much more valuable on resale.

 

Then they got over it, sold their Harleys and the market was flooded.  Maybe those same guys are just sitting on a beach now.  I'd like to. LOL

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, F&J said:

The Boomer generation is what was continuing the hobby of fixing up an antique car.  20 odd years ago some Boomers facing middle age crisis all had to have a big new Harley which led to a one year waiting list on a new one, which made used ones much more valuable on resale.

 

Then they got over it, sold their Harleys and the market was flooded.  Maybe those same guys are just sitting on a beach now.  I'd like to. LOL

 

You wouldn't last a single day sitting on the beach.

[W_Higgins]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Do you think that has something to do with getting to a certain age?   I've observed that in general people spend the first 70% of their lives accumulating stuff and the last 30% trying to get rid of it.   Somewhere there is a transition from objects to experience for a lot of people (but not all).  

 

Or is this just a variation of the famous "3 P's of collecting":    Pursue, Purchase, Pleasure.    The "Pleasure" being emphasized more as you get older?

 

No, I don't see it as an age thing.  This hobby has already been thorough a few generations so if that were the case it would continue to cycle.  Hobbies don't die with old people because they are making more old people every day. I see it as a societal change and since I tend to see everything in the world through the lens of money, in a most general sense I attribute this change to the death of the pension.  As a friend once told me years ago, "There is no more 30 years and a gold watch".  Prior generations would have their father get them a job at Bethlehem or GM or wherever after their grandfather had gotten him a job there.  There was a predictable path to their life.  The current working generations know no such stability.  Now you couldn't hope to retire with any form of pension tomorrow unless you got on that train at least 20 years ago (except of course for public jobs and whatnot where they are all underfunded and waiting for their own crash -- isn't it interesting how many retired school teachers we see in his hobby, though?).    

 

As a result I think everyone has reassessed what is important to them given the instability in the world the last couple of decades.  With no assurance of a comfortable retirement waiting on them, or even that they will have the same job five years from today, rather than looking out across the horizon and seeing a destiny they can control they see at least a few job changes and probably a couple of moves.  People don't want to be weighed down by "stuff".  They want to put on their flip flops, throw their Ikea furniture to the curb, and move on.  Life is more like a series of hurdles rather than in the past where it was rungs on a ladder.  Stuff is just something else to drag them down.  People adapt to the societies in which they live and this is not now a society that lends itself well to being burdened with tonnage.  Disposable house, disposable furniture, disposable cars.  Now a whole generation of pensioned boomers are exiting the market and chucking their possessions to the proverbial curb and there aren't enough replacements in society coming along to pick it up.  However, you can collect all the memories that you want from experiences (experiences that don't require "stuff" as the entry fee to participate) and you don't need a U-Haul truck to move them.  

 

Also, let's face it, a lot of us haven't been the best stewards of the hobby.  Even people with their act together have had projects lingering in the garage that will never get finished.  It's covered in boxes with so much stuff on the floor that you can't walk around it.  It is a burden during their life and becomes a burden for the children after they pass and the children that grow up looking at this learn from their parent's mistakes and want something different.

 

  

 

[auburnseeker]

It could also be a culture that is pushing them to minimalize and live in a cubicle in the city as the trendy neat thing to do.  Of course the whole pandemic thing kicked in,  then they realized that 400 square foot apartment isn't alot of fun when you are forced to live in it 24 hours a day for months at a time.  Might see a change in people wanting to live in the smallest minimalistic life if things don't get back to normal.

My wife use to tell me she didn't need such a big place as I got us,  or as much land as our 7 acres,  but boy, every day of the Quarantine as we took our daily walk around the property for exercise and had to home school the three children,  she sure was happy (and even admitted it to me almost every day) that we had such a good spread. 

We'll see. 

[keithb7]

@W_Higgins you've said some very great points here. Yes indeed, disposable everything these days. It breeds the need for new, shiny, latest, greatest stuff. It keeps people spending lots of money and the economy propped up. During my working and growth years I have watched the transition. I started out in the proverbial factory with a union job and a golden egg at the end, when it arrived. I got bored and moved on. My retirement funds are self directed now. The companies I have worked for, for the past 27 years have no obligations for pay me when I retire. I have seen and lived through the transitions. I have seen people around me at work sent packing with a pay-out when the company "re-structures" every 5 years. There is no stability. I agree, you have no idea how long you'll be working where you are now. The company decides and then off you go. Every dollar I spend in my 5th decade is a dollar removed from my retirement fund. I love old cars. Look at my signature below. My cars are listed. Far from popular, nor desirable models by the masses. Yet I get to dabble in the hobby. I get to learn. Have fun. I still get out and cruise for ice creme. Part of me has to live for today. I am  enjoying my younger years responsibly, yet I also hold back to plan for the golden years. Would I love to drop off a 1962 Corvette at a restoration shop, and pick it up later, completely like new? Sure, sometimes I would l love to have that car, in that condition. Then other times I remember and feel the bond I have developed with my own cars. From all the work I have done. The confidence in the car, and knowledge learned. I find myself sometimes walking past the two old girls in garage as I tuck them in for the night. I rub my hand on the fender as I walk by. I find myself thinking, thanks for the great cruise tonight. Weird....

[JamesR]

40 minutes ago, W_Higgins said:

Even people with their act together have had projects lingering in the garage that will never get finished.  It's covered in boxes with so much stuff on the floor that you can't walk around it.  It is a burden during their life and becomes a burden for the children after they pass and the children that grow up looking at this learn from their parent's mistakes and want something different.

 

 

Yes, if you've ever been through the passing of both parents, you know what the above statement is all about. Very true. I've made a vow to not burden my own children with my junk like our dad kind of did with us...but then I bought another car project a couple of years ago. 🤨 

 

Alsancle said:

Quote

I've observed that in general people spend the first 70% of their lives accumulating stuff and the last 30% trying to get rid of it.  

 

That's what I'd like to do. OTOH, I should have the project car as a saleable vehicle pretty easily in a couple of years so that I can move it on out when I'm no longer able to drive in 25 (or maybe more) years. I like the old cars, in part, because it's one of the few areas where you can still bring order to chaos by repairing and maintaining them. Kind of difficult to do that with the world at large anymore.

[60FlatTop]

18 hours ago, padgett said:

so unless there is a family tie

 

It was a while ago that I noticed a family line of succession on quite a bit of the "higher end" stuff.

 

When you are looking at today's octogenarian that's a guy who may have entered the car buying market in the mid to late 1950's. That $400 used car lot Duesenberg would have been quite a stretch on an average paycheck. It was more likely bought by a guy who died 20 years ago.

 

There are some interesting provenance stories behind a big chunk of the old cars out there, most interesting after they achieved collector recognition than not. It is still going on. I am pretty sure one or two of my nephews will carry on my more desirable cars.

 

Cars will always be a hobby. It has been one of the most adaptable, yet rarely recognized for that adaptability due to what I call dogma in the generational views (myopia?)

 

In 1999 I sold my first project car online. It was an Ebay sale of a Rover TC 2000. According to the northern California buyer, people in his area had to be an heir to get one. He was excited and getting ready to strip it down for a full refurbishing. After selling locally for a long time the idea of a car going 3,000 miles away and getting stripped down sure took the weight of potential "warranty" complaints away. I wanted more of that.

Bernie