Are restoration "projects" becoming less popular?

[Str8-8-Dave]

So at age 67 I found and bought  a model 8-66S Special Coupe, the 3rd 1931 Buick I have owned, with the idea I might actually be able to finish this one, which is to say I did not finish the first 2.  The first, an 8-86 coupe, became a fixture at my parent's home when I was 12.   I learned to smoke my dad's cigarettes in it.  I broke the cat's tail in the driver's cowl vent door (cat walked up the running board and it's tail was between the door and cowl when I pushed the vent door pedal inside the car closing the vent door on the cat's tail, the ensuing noise caused me to drop my cigarette).   Later, at age 20, I talked my dad into giving me the car and I disassembled it to bare frame and did a kid's restoration of chassis and components and a pretty good restoration of the engine.  I never finished it because it had suffered a fire and much of the body wood was burned out of the car.  I gave up on it and sold it. 

 

In about 1987 I bought the second car remotely, an 8-57S,  without looking at it first, one of life's hard lessons.  I realized the error in my ways after I hauled it from Marietta Ohio back to Michigan behind a 6 cylinder Ford Econoline van on a rented flat bed car trailer.  Someone had sand blasted that car to death and painted it with a vacuum cleaner spry gun.  The window glass was all etched from blasting.  There was white sand under the carpet.  I rounded up quite a few new parts and planned to remove the body, restore the fram and overhaul the engine but my heart was just no in it and I sold it off and bought a sailboat.

 

The car I bought this time was much different.  I bought it on E-bay after careful study of pictures and a pretty good description by the seller.  The heavy lifting had been done on this one.  The owner of the car contracted a shop to do a good restoration of a good original complete car.  The car had been carefully taken apart, body, fenders, hood, gas tank cover, gravel pan, running board aprons all stripped, prepped and painted maroon and black.  The chassis and running gear had been restored to a high standard along with the engine.  The chassis and drive train had been reassembled, artillery wheels stripped, varnished, painted and shod with new BF Goodrich reproduction tires from Coker Tire and the body had been set back on the car.  Then the original owner died. 

 

The car sat stored under a car cover in a heated shop for several years.  The restorer wound up owning the car and just wanted to get out from under it so it was listed on E-Bay and I bought it for a price I knew was well below what had already been invested in it and knowing to finish the car would take a lot of time and probably as much money as had already been spent on it.   The stuff I have done to the car has been documented in a thread I update under the Me and My Buick thread on this website.   It's stuff that is still challenging for someone 70yrs old in declining health, but it's not the major stuff involved in pulling bodies, prep and painting same, overhauling engine and drive line.  It's still technically challenging and has forced me to grow in the hobby. 

 

The emphasis I bring to this car is a desire to end up with a car that is authentic which has caused me to be bull headed about stuff like making the Marvel heat control system work like it did when the car was delivered new.  Many think that's nuts today because the heat control system IS troublesome and not really required with today's fuels.  I fabricated much of the internal parts of the heat riser, exhaust damper and supporting heat control and accelerator linkage taking the car from having  a piece of bent rod hooked to a wooden gas pedal with no heat control to having a heat knob on the dash that controls the heat control system as it did originally and accelerator linkage that can now be connected to a reproduction gas pedal.  And guess what- it all works.  

 

I won't take you through everything I've done to the car here because this is supposed to be a treatise on how the restoration hobby has evolved over the years.  The point I'm trying to make is as a hobbyist who still wants a big piece of hands-on restoration experience but ground-up restoration is not practical because of cost and effort required I bought an interesting partially completed project.  I take a lot of satisfaction in taking a half-done car and doing the research and thinking to make it viable and authentic.  I was so lucky to have found a willing hobbyist in GA who has an original 31 Buick 8-66S.  He has been a treasure-trove of information, helping me with many pictures and text messages that have guided my attempt to restore my car authentically.  He has crawled under his car with a cell phone to take pictures of original body hardware, stood on his head to photograph behind the interior seating revealing how the interior of the car and the rumble compartment were separated, partially disassembled the window shade to identify which way the shade was oriented in the car to make the return spring work correctly.  My car had no windshield or wiper system when I brought it home.  Dave sent many pictures to help me understand how the VV windshield was installed and sealed  and helped me identify key pieces of wiper control linkage.  Another contributor had factory drawings of some of the wiper linkage from which I was able to fabricate tandem wiper linkage and the right hand wiper pivot assembly.  This is the detailed minutia that is within the scope of what I can do at my age that I hope will result in a complete authentic if amateur restoration.  There are cars out there that are partially restored like mine that offer the opportunity for aging hobbyists to still enjoy hands-on restoration.  Partially done cars where the majority of the heavy stuff is done to a high level can be had at attractive prices.  I like to research to find out how stuff was done originally.  I like to work the little projects, photograph as I go along and I enjoy writing about it.  It gives me the satisfaction of being involved in my later years and passing along what I learn along the way.

 

Cheers-

Dave

 

"The project"  shown here with Trippe Jr. driving lights purchased from Steve Moskowitz

 

Yes- I'm bull headed, after a lot of advice to block off my heat riser this one works as it did when the car was delivered new.

 

If you can't buy the part- make the part.  This right hand pivot, while not an exact replica, comes pretty close per the drawing.

 

This is the fabricated wiper pivot on the car.

 

These upper wiper arms and the tandem link are fabricated to reflect the original parts.

 

Wiper setup on the car- outside view.

 

Tucked away in a parts box that came with the car was the wiper control linkage, a part I had never seen before, I didn't even think

it was a Buick part..  With help from Dave39MD I figured out what it was.

 

This is the wiper control mounted inside the car.

 

This inside view of the wiper system includes the restored VV windshield regulator board with original Ternstedt regulator handle and

Trico rear view mirro.  The little lever hanging below the regulator handle is the wiper control switch.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Str8-8-Dave
Add pictures and descriptions. (see edit history)

[edinmass]

OK, I admit it..........I would jump up and down with glee if the entire pre war car market fell through the floor and went down the toilet............then I would be able to afford the stuff I live and dream of..........

[TAKerry]

18 hours ago, padgett said:

Must admit that a 78 WS-6 (8 inch wheels & 4 wheel disks) with a 4-speed (T/A 6.6) and T-Tops would be hard to resist.

Car in pic is a 77 (actually very early build with 76 int), it is a T/A 6.6 but auto, disk/drum. I think the 8in wheels look so much better than the 7's. My current resto is a 1979 T/A 6.6(pontiac 400), 4 speed, 4 wheel disc. Cant wait to see how the 4 speed and 4 wh disk compare to the auto.

[60FlatTop]

This topic gets added to while I write!

 

My general policy on the project cars is to split cash outlay 50/50 between mechanical and cosmetic. In sweat equity I lean to the cosmetic more heavily. That gives me me a more salable car in the event of a change in plan (cash out for a different project).

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

It could also be a culture that is pushing them to minimalize and live in a cubicle in the city as the trendy neat thing to do.  Of course the whole pandemic thing kicked in,  then they realized that 400 square foot apartment isn't alot of fun when you are forced to live in it 24 hours a day for months at a time.  Might see a change in people wanting to live in the smallest minimalistic life if things don't get back to normal.

My wife use to tell me she didn't need such a big place as I got us,  or as much land as our 7 acres,  but boy, every day of the Quarantine as we took our daily walk around the property for exercise and had to home school the three children,  she sure was happy (and even admitted it to me almost every day) that we had such a good spread. 

We'll see. 

 

Hopefully, someday, you won't see the Mob marching up your driveway to take what they feel is theirs. Just sayin............Bob

[TAKerry]

18 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Kerry, how many hours into your restoration?  Looks really nice, btw!

Thanks Steve, I wouldnt have a clue! I worked on it for about 5 years, but there were times that it sat dormant for months at a time. I had NO budget allowed so the money was the biggest thing. As I got a few extra $ I would get some more work finished. Then through no fault of my own ( i paid up front, LOL) it sat at my mechanics for a little over a year getting the motor installed. Ironically the guy had the motor completely rebuilt in about 2 weeks, then it just sat, and sat, and.........

[60FlatTop]

2 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Hopefully, someday, you won't see the Mob marching up your driveway to take what they feel is theirs.

 

I bought my wife a Tahoe so the Feds will think they are already there.

[padgett]

I suspect that the Boomers had parents who went through the depression and learned thrift and the virtue of fixing things from them. Nearly everyone had been in or was connected to the military and the USA was on top. Heard the Japanese even renamed a city "USA" so could stamp "made in..."

 

Then came Vietnam and mass dissatisfaction. The Fuel Crisis and the NMSL (which made the import "buzz bombs" salable). Many cars became "40k and throw away". Just "throwing parts at a car" to meet the new inspections as mods became illegal had an effect. New systems have become so good that restomods are now common (have always had: Shelbys and Ford/Studillacs were just before the nomenclature. Today TV shows (even though many are staged) extol the virtues of 3,000 hp and rolling disk brake four link chassis. Shops extol the virtue of "plug and play" crate engines.

 

Since this is what they are being taught (and Fox body Mustangs are a dime a dozen) is no wonder the kids have little interest in prewar (pick a war) vehicles. No less people really (though Motor Trend (aka Velocity aka HD Theater) channel keeps begging for subscribers at giveaway prices). Just many different options (including not having a car).

Edited July 11, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

as many cars become much more affordable as the market realigns. 

Ed's statement caught my attention - the really choice stuff in rarity, popularity, and ... will always hang in there and do just fine.  Maybe it will never go up in value a dime more,  maybe it will drop a little, maybe restoration will not make sence for it values wise, or ....  Even when someone bought something in the 1950's for $500.00 and it seemed cheap it probably was a bit of an extravagance compared to the day to day - do the time value of money calculation, look at what else they could have invested in, 99.9999% of people would not have spent that to begin with for it, and ....

 

I have walked away from what are seemingly great deals and the bottom line is that I would not be happy with the car the way it is and I am not willing to come out backwards on its restoration.    Cars have certain values in any state of condition and for the most part the values are pretty defined.  Yes, there is some market uncertainty and yes there are some things more popular than other, and yes ..., but if you are waiting for the turnip truck to tip over in front of you then the wait will be long and arduous.

 

On the fluke, a very nice 30's Packard Convertible was offered to me recently - it was a fine car prior to restoration, though they felt it time and started into a well thought out restoration - and then his health failed.  And, as it was in thousands of pieces, what had been a decent priced car was now worth 1/3 of that.   Well, I passed on the car as I like to fuss on a car and I also do not want to loose money on a restoration.  To do what I wanted to do with it , the way I wanted it done, and with what I needed help with the car just did not make good economic sence.   That said though, the day after I said no, the car sold to another person (they always wanted one and it will make them a great car).  I see the new owner loosing money on the restoration, but equally they will be happy with some aspects that I am not and they are resourceful to some degree so my guess is that they will minimize their losses. 

 

A friend's shop is finishing a Jaguar 120 - the prior shop spent 200K on sheet metal work (on a really nice car to begin with) and ...   Well, a couple people working on X day in and day out at over $100.00 hr and ... (lets do simple math $100.00 an hour on a 40 hr week = a $4,000 dollar bill per each person touching it per week  - it adds up quick). When done, the owner will have over 300K in it - and it will not be worth that. 

 

And, then there are shops all over doing really high end stuff and have more work than they can do. If you can buy something for 1MM, spend even 1MM restoring it, and it is worth 2.5MM -  is that perhaps a good use of time and money if you have that kind of money to spend to do that ? 

 

As to values of cars as a whole - I am sure I am missing something here in the list, though large Horsepower Brass Cars are going to stay up there, CCCA Open/Convertible Cars too, Open/Convertible Fords always have a dependable value, the incredibly well restored stuff, the incredibly nice original stuff that looks much like it did on the showroom floor always does well, and then postwar you have Open/Convertible as well, plus Sports Cars, plus some Cult Cars, Muscles Cars, and .... AND THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF THINGS YOU CAN PROBABLY SPEND DECENT MONEY ON BUYING (and if they need restored then restoring them), YET YOU STILL MUST DO THE ANALYSIS. 

 

Where you see a lot of comments here on the AACA website involve costs of restoring big box sedans (which by the way is most of the hobby in surviving cars) and in rare and already expensive convertibles that need even more expensive restorations. 

 

By the way, there are a few things that I would like to have and due to obscurity most likely I will have to do a restoration that could cost more than the end value of the car (sidenote: I probably still will take offense though at someone thinking that is the norm).

 

Add'l by the way, my best friend just surprised me with buying a Mercedes 280SL - I told him one would make a good car for him, we looked at a few, Family/Kids/Houses/Finances got in the way, then it seems he took all my advise found a couple really knowledgeable people to help him find one, asked the right questions, and then had them set him up with an extraordinary car - I am impressed too.  What was funny is he did not ask me when time came as he said he thought I would not approve of his choice (what would I not have approved of - an incredibly nice original car that received an outstanding restoration to make it one of the better ones on the globe and to get bought for 1/3 of what owner had invested in it.  What is even better is that it is its original RED and not baby puke green). 

[John_Mereness]

48 minutes ago, edinmass said:

OK, I admit it..........I would jump up and down with glee if the entire pre war car market fell through the floor and went down the toilet............then I would be able to afford the stuff I live and dream of..........

Unfortunately, the stuff that drops to the floor is not what we are interested in.  But, the stuff we are interested in would stick with us no matter what its value.   

[60FlatTop]

A friend of mine removed two big limestone glacial rocks from between his house and garage. A few days later his wife said a woodchuck chased her. When he checked it chased him too. Must have been rabid. He just calls it fill now.

 

The biggest thing people in the country have to worry about is the refreshed demonizing of cash. Rural broadband has been working toward it. About 10% of the GNP takes place in casual exchange. It will hit those little towns bad. When the $20 welding job gets paid with plastic the net "income" will be $12. No lunch at the diner and no tip for the waitress at that point.

 

That is the same economical principle behind a lot of hobby funding as well. "We are the new indigenous."

[Rusty_OToole]

Credit card companies ding the merchant for substantial fees. Where do you think the cash back and air miles come from? I use plastic at major companies like Walmart but cash at small local stores. On a small purchase the fees could amount to 1/3.

[W_Higgins]

1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

 

I always liked tanks growing up.  Maybe it's time to get one as a new mate in the stable. Intimidation is one hell of a deterrent.  

Imagine a mob coming up the driveway,  then they see a tank coming down the driveway.  Would make for an interesting standoff,  or roll over. 

With all that's going on and the current trend to limit the police's ability to perform their duty,  they should make stand your ground laws legal in all states. 

 

Maybe in the recent past.  Today they would argue with the tank, provoke the tank, get in the path of the tank, and then cry victim when the tank did what it was designed to do all while on your own private property.  Afterward, the DA would issue a warrant to seize your tank while the mob continues to move on unfettered to the next house.  It has become a world where what is right is wrong and what is wrong is right.

 

[TerryB]

Remember, this thread is about individual restoration of automobiles and the increase or decrease in that part of the hobby.  It’s starting to go off the track which will have it deleted if it goes off too far.

 

I always had an interest in bringing back neglected vehicles to running and useable condition, improving their looks with “armstrong “ efforts to paint and interior and replacing broken or worn out parts.  This keeps it reasonably affordable and fun.  I enjoy looking at full restorations but the money involved to do that has always been an issue with my senses of value.  There have been many good looking cars recently in the Cars for Sale section that look like they could be great candidates for sweat equity improvements.  The biggest problem so far for me would be choosing one from the many listed.

[edinmass]

Terry......sorting out old neglected restorations is one of my favorite things to do in the shop. Cosmetic stuff doesn’t interest me much. Fortunately there is an endless supply of work in this category. Fixing the poor workmanship is frustrating and usually 80 percent of what I do. 

[TerryB]

In my motorcycle life I rescued several abandoned two wheel units for not a lot of $$$.  Cleaned up and running with cosmetic improvements was fun and not too expensive.  My favorite was a 1964 Vespa 125cc that had been literally put out for the trash.  I won several originality awards at the local fire company /Lions Club type car shows.  Seems lots of people had or wanted one back in the day.

[edinmass]

Early Vespa’s are a hot item down here in Palm Beach island................and they bring BIG money. 

[60FlatTop]

My comment was not on fees for credit card companies. It is the ability to charge income tax on the casual exchange of goods or services. Each transaction could have income tax levied. An average of 30 to 40% will be extracted. The push for rural broad band has been leading the move for about 15 years now and not getting traction. Just one big Sherwood Forest from Atlantic to Pacific. And it is discretionary spending and small businesses with their employees taking the brunt.

 

You don't see a lot of public officials or professional people carrying cash so it is a mute topic for them. A lot of studies have been done worldwide on the money grab. But the little places I go to meet for morning coffee or lunch, or the neighborly welding job aren't seen by the political side, much less dropping a $5 cash tip on a table. Their ignorance has far reaching collateral damage.

 

You won't even be able to sell a set of hub caps and give your wife $40 for the hairdresser without a third partner share.

[TerryB]

30 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Early Vespa’s are a hot item down here in Palm Beach island................and they bring BIG money. 

I still have it, it’s promised to my son when he gets his own place with a garage.  Living in the SF CA area might take him a while to find something he can afford.

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 

 

I always liked tanks growing up.  Maybe it's time to get one as a new mate in the stable. Intimidation is one hell of a deterrent.  

Imagine a mob coming up the driveway,  then they see a tank coming down the driveway.  Would make for an interesting standoff,  or roll over. 

With all that's going on and the current trend to limit the police's ability to perform their duty,  they should make stand your ground laws legal in all states. 

 

I actually know a little bit about tanks as my brother owned two hellcats, a chaffee, a full size tiger replica,  and assorted other armor.    Collecting them makes us car guys look like geniuses.    You need a winch to change spark plugs.

 

 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

I actually know a little bit about tanks as my brother owned two hellcats, a chaffee, a full size tiger replica,  and assorted other armor.    Collecting them makes us car guys look like geniuses.    You need a winch to change spark plugs.

 

Ok, time to make a confession. I built a home, with a “Man Cave” type garage. That’s not unusual. I always wanted a Sherman and a Half Track. Since I didn’t want to have to haul them around  to use them I bought a huge piece of property to put my house on. The floor in my garage has a footing four times larger than normal in a 12 inch concrete reinforced pad so you can park a Sherman. When I bought the land and built the house it was easy to afford a Sherman. By the time I was done and started chasing my armor, it became fantastically expensive. So I have a very large property to play with tracked vehicles, and a place to park them. I’ll probably still end up with a half track someday.  Yes anyone have a Sherman or a Chafee,  I wouldn’t even settle for a Studebaker weasel....... I have parking And a suitable  yard. I’ll be happy to store your tracked vehicle for free......as long as I can exercise them.  M-5’s are also welcome!

 

Sometime I will post about servicing a Tiger and going for a ride..........one of the coolest rides I have ever taken.......
 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, TerryB said:

I still have it, it’s promised to my son when he gets his own place with a garage.  Living in the SF CA area might take him a while to find something he can afford.

Trying to drive up the hills in the Bay Area on a Vespa could be quite a challenge. 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

he had a weasel too.  And a 25 ton M1 that couldn’t be stopped short of a missile strike.

[TTR]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

......sorting out old neglected restorations is one of my favorite things to do in the shop. Cosmetic stuff doesn’t interest me much. Fortunately there is an endless supply of work in this category. Fixing the poor workmanship is frustrating and usually 80 percent of what I do. 

Pretty much same in my world, except I deal with cosmetics also, but tend to place them as secondary concerns.

[auburnseeker]

Seems somebody didn't like my  Comment on protecting my own property so much for Amend #1. Oh well.

Just saw the Couple that protected theirs and are still threatened had their 2nd trampled without any charges filed. Sad Sad Day.

 

Any leads on a tank.  I just might need it.

 

You just have to ask any imposing Mobs,  do you feel lucky?

 

I can already hear the clatter of the tracks on the crumbled asphalt driveway.  (I need to replace it anyways)

Edited July 11, 2020 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[JustDave]

I believe prewar say 1935 and down are becoming less frequent,when I attend pomonaswapmeet I see a lot of 40 s and newer restorations that are just paint upholstery and get it to run,the day,of the body offfull blown resto in the garage is becoming less and less

[60FlatTop]

10 minutes ago, JustDave said:

body offfull blown resto in the garage is becoming less and less

 

Sometimes it goes unnoticed.

 

New shortblock, Imron on the cradle, and a low list of pieces.

 

35 year old car. "That's not an old car. Those are just used cars, all over the place, dime a dozen. Just saw one in a car lot 27 years ago." said the old guy.

[hidden_hunter]

I went through the entire engine of the 22 on the drive way (in hindsight should have removed the engine from the car would have made life easier) including replacing the rings, checking the bearings, servicing the valves and replacing the destroyed cam gear.

[JustDave]

I want to add to my original post I still believe pre 1935 cars getting a full blown resto are not as common as before.but the one thing I believe stops a lot of folks is the chrome,the price the wait the quality at least in california

[Joe in Canada]

18 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Don't believe everything you read.  We have been restoring professionally for 42 years and are busier now than ever and we hear the same from other restoration shops.  We recently booked 3  new complete frame up restos  (a '21, a'16, a '58 and a '57)  and have had more calls for work in the last year than I can remember.  We recently hired another mechanic and another painter/bodyman.  

Question?? What percent of the cars being booked for restoration today are complete older restorations being re-restored compared to tougher projects. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[zepher]

18 hours ago, alsancle said:

Or is this just a variation of the famous "3 P's of collecting":    Pursue, Purchase, Pleasure.

 

If it were up to me the 3 P's of collecting would be Pierce Arrow, Packard and Peerless.  😁

[keithb7]

5 minutes ago, zepher said:

 

If it were up to me the 3 P's of collecting would be Pierce Arrow, Packard and Peerless.  😁

You missed Plymouth! Lol. Comment coming from the peanut gallery! 

[zepher]

As for the younger generation not getting wrenching knowledge being passed down, for about 5 years starting 18 years ago, I was an avid member of a Nissan enthusiasts message board.

The board was dominated by the 'tuner' crowd but very few of the younger members even knew where to start when it came to modifying or maintaining their cars.

So for around 5 years I used to host 'install meets' at my house.

If you had purchased parts but didn't know how to install them or didn't have the tools but you were willing to learn, were mechanically inclined and were willing to help or you just wanted to come and enjoy some BBQ and hang out and maybe learn something then you were welcome to come.  My garage and my tools were for everyone to use as long as things didn't get out of hand.  No burnouts, no excessive engine revving no drinking or drug use.

The meets lasted from around 8 in the morning when the first cars started showing up to often past midnight before the last cars left.

It was great to see some younger people so willing to learn about their cars and those with knowledge willing to help others learn.

One of the meets I had 28 cars at my house and we completely took over the culdesac.

At the time the only older car I had at my house was my '64 Malibu convertible and I made sure to give a ride to anyone that asked for one.

I was hoping that by inspiring younger people to find pleasure in working on their own cars and to enjoy going for a ride in an 'old' car that it would bring more young people into the hobby.

Sadly, I don't know if that kind of meet would be doable in today's world.

What kind of crazy person invites dozens of 'internet' friends to their house for the day?  😀

Edited July 12, 2020 by zepher (see edit history)

[Michael J. Barnes]

Another reason for the decline of hobby restoration is staring in front of everybody participating here — computers and tablets. They did not exist when I was growing up, and likewise I suspect for many participants in this conversation. They are great for sharing chats like this, and for sharing knowledge. But they are a HUGE distraction from reading a book or going into the garage to take something apart or doing the hobby you like to do. I teach 10 year olds. Their minds may be broadened by building worlds in MineCraft, and coding is a real intellectual activity available to them. I ALSO know kids love to work with their hands — making paper for example. It is hard to offer them mechanical activities to explore their dexterity and yankee ingenuity (spoken from Canada). Different in high school where there is shop class. By the way, many automotive and marine repair shops near me (Vancouver area) are constantly struggling to find qualified help. We have good programs at technical school. Not enough kids are following that direction.

[JACK M]

1 hour ago, Michael J. Barnes said:

By the way, many automotive and marine repair shops near me (Vancouver area) are constantly struggling to find qualified help. We have good programs at technical school. Not enough kids are following that direction.

 

Tech schools don't make good mechanics unless the student already has the savvy.

But the guys that have the savvy don't really need that kind of education.

The so called 'techs' that I hired didn't know much with all that book learning.

Often the guy that does the best work cant even read.

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, JACK M said:

 

Tech schools don't make good mechanics unless the student already has the savvy.

But the guys that have the savvy don't really need that kind of education.

The so called 'techs' that I hired didn't know much with all that book learning.

Often the guy that does the best work cant even read.

Over  the years I had many “technical school” mechanics that were so-called educated..........probably more than 50. Only three were worth anything, and they would have been better off spending more time in my shop than at the schools they attended. All they had was a piece of paper and school loans when done. 

[1912Staver]

At one time I had a related but dual career track.  Auto mechanic , turned High School shop teacher , evolved into a Marine Engineer for the last 30 years of my working life.. I started out as a 99% nuts and bolts guy , but shipboard the automation evolved in a fairly relentless way. By the time I retired the amount of electronics I was dealing with was 

overwhelming.  These days, the age of  people like me is more or less over. Either a hands on mechanical guy or a dedicated electronics tech. And although the company I worked for had some very talented electronics people on staff, a couple of times a year something would come up that required a fly in manufactures tech.

The complexity of todays integrated systems for things like power management / prime mover control are such as to require a very specifically skilled tech.  The ship I worked on had PTO main generators taken off the reduction gear boxes of the propulsion shafts. So maneuvering would effect the loading on the prime movers and potentially the frequency of the 

ships buss. The integrated control electronics wer extremely interactive and complex. No school teaches this stuff , just a decade or more with a major manufacturer.

I would like to see the world return to a kinder , simpler stage of technology . When I started in the Marine field in the mid 1980's there was almost nothing apart from the communications radios and radar that an Engineer like myself couldn''t  trouble shoot and repair. As time went by more and more became the realm of dedicated tech's only.

These skills require a very special trainee. If you have that sort of potential there are probably a wide range of careers that are more progressive and better paying than either the Marine or Automotive field.

Greg in Canada  {also Vancouver area }

[JACK M]

6 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 The integrated control electronics wer extremely interactive and complex. No school teaches this stuff , just a decade or more with a major manufacturer.

I would like to see the world return to a kinder , simpler stage of technology . When I started in the Marine field in the mid 1980's there was almost nothing apart from the communications radios and radar that an Engineer like myself couldn''t  trouble shoot and repair. As time went by more and more became the realm of dedicated tech's only.

These skills require a very special trainee. If you have that sort of potential there are probably a wide range of careers that are more progressive and better paying than either the Marine or Automotive field.

Greg in Canada  {also Vancouver area }

 

This is why the hobby will be very different in the not so distant future.

I have a nephew that is ASE certified and makes a pretty good living, but wouldnt know how to get a stored car running.

[junkyardjeff]

I have no desire to to start on a rusty project these days,I will take on projects that are in decent shape that have not ran in years but no major body work.

[1912Staver]

16 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Over  the years I had many “technical school” mechanics that were so-called educated..........probably more than 50. Only three were worth anything, and they would have been better off spending more time in my shop than at the schools they attended. All they had was a piece of paper and school loans when done. 

 

Hey Ed, can I come and work for you ? No need for any further tech school time, I can go straight onto the tool's.  Just fooling ,apart from the { lack of ] income I am getting used to being retired. The main reason I went the Marine route is that back in my youth the Artic oil industry was paying very high wages for Engineers. 

The thought was to do a few seasons in the White Hell, and use the proceeds to start my own restoration shop. The 1980's recession put a end to the Canadian Artic oil activity and my self employment ambitions. I did "OK" over the next 30 years in the Coastal marine enviroment , but wages were less than 1/2 of what the

Artic guys were making a season. Alaska off shore industry is still producing. The Canadian Artic is still dead all these years later.

 

Greg

Edited July 12, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)