Mecum Auction in Florida today

[gossp]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

A McFarlan for 17K ? That seems very low, even if the body is of questionable originality.

I think the odd body made the car bring less than the chassis was worth. The flippers were asleep on that one. 

[rocketraider]

Alcohol, bragging rights, gotta-win mindset, coupled with more money than sense are what sends auction prices stupid. "Investors" (ruination of the car hobby😠) also drive stupidity.

 

Running prices out of reason is a sport to some of this crowd too. Granted, I've been to only GAA and Raleigh Classic, but you see the same things at smaller auctions.

 

I've known enough shady and unscrupulous car builders that I would never buy a car at one of these auctions.

 

A Mopar friend got invited to tag along to BJ-Scottsdale in 2012. He told me that was the only place he'd ever seen a man wearing a full length mink coat and Louis Vuitton sunglasses, if that gave me some idea of the type people these high-zoot auctions attract.

[George Cole]

26 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

I was just getting ready to dig the picture out when I saw it posted.  Thanks Mike.  Neat car, but the wooden contraption on the back completely ruins it.  McFarlan never made a boat tail...much less a wooden one that looks like a boat.  They would have been better off mounting one of the wrecker frames advertised here in the Forum Parts.  Now that would have been neat and period correct for CCCA.

[George Cole]

Here's the 1930 Pierce Arrow which was driven across the blocks for $18k plus fees...only a grand above the reserve.  Even with what looks like an incorrect interior, it should have been worth twice that.  This is the one my wife was pissed about me not bidding on.

[John Bloom]

19 minutes ago, George Cole said:

Here's the 1930 Pierce Arrow which was driven across the blocks for $18k plus fees...only a grand above the reserve.  Even with what looks like an incorrect interior, it should have been worth twice that.  This is the one my wife was pissed about me not bidding on.

I’m pretty sure that car has changed hands 3 or 4 times in the last 24 months.  And each time discussed here. 
 

 

 

 

 

[mike6024]

That's nice. $18k.

[mike6024]

1 minute ago, John Bloom said:

car has changed hands 3 or 4 times

Has serious problems? Engine, drivetrain?

 

[alsancle]

For 18K even Ed would be in on that.

[Cadillac Fan]

8 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

I’m pretty sure that car has changed hands 3 or 4 times in the last 24 months.  And each time discussed here. 
 

 

 

 

 

Yes.  With asking prices up to $50k

[George Cole]

7 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

Has serious problems? Engine, drivetrain?

 

It was driven across the blocks, not pushed.  And not smoking.

[pkhammer]

These auctions can be entertaining and I'm sure some extremely nice, high end cars go across the block on the weekends. The lesser stuff seems to cross the block earlier in the week and I have personally observed the level of "quality" of these cars. They look pretty nice in photos and from 20' away but up close inspection can reveal a real nightmare. I talked to a mechanic in a shop that was fixing one of these auction purchases show me some real gems of engineering. One had a 1/2" drive socket u-joint scabbed into the steering shaft that said "China" right on it. A lot of these vehicles are just crap someone is trying to get rid of.

[John Bloom]

9 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Yes.  With asking prices up to $50k

At one point when it was being listed, the son of the individual who restored it jumped on and provided some information and pictures of it during his dad’s ownership.  I don’t know the car other than I find it strange to publicly see it change hands so often. 

 

unless there is some mechanical kiss of death, it seems like quite a bit of car for a sale price in the teens. 

[1912Staver]

3 hours ago, George Cole said:

I was just getting ready to dig the picture out when I saw it posted.  Thanks Mike.  Neat car, but the wooden contraption on the back completely ruins it.  McFarlan never made a boat tail...much less a wooden one that looks like a boat.  They would have been better off mounting one of the wrecker frames advertised here in the Forum Parts.  Now that would have been neat and period correct for CCCA.

 

I guess if you end up with a car that has a completely missing body this is better than nothing. Not much better however.

[Pfeil]

11 hours ago, George Cole said:

No.  Standard bidder fee: $200.  Gold level bidder fee: $500.  The bidder fee was a one-time fee for the entire auction.  Buyer's commission: 10% on site bidder, or 12% telephone or on-line bidder.  Plus 7.5% FL & Osceola County tax.  And there may be a title fee as well.  The minimum buyer commission was $1k for a car, $500 for a motorcycle.

 

Hammer prices for some of the Chevelles, 442s, GTOs, Camaros, Mustangs, etc., were insanely high...probably directly proportional to alcohol intake.  (There was a bar in the auction hall.)  However, there were several deals to be had on CCCA Full Classics, including a very nice looking, running, and driving 1930 Pierce-Arrow which went for $18k.  (My wife was pissed at me for not bidding on it.)  Also a 1931 Lincoln dual-windshield touring car with poorly done interior which was driven across the block for $32k, a 1930 Lincoln 4-passenger coupe which barely met reserve for $42k, a 1925 Rolls Royce Shooting Brake which looked okay for $22k, a 1919 Baker electric which also barely met reserve for $50k, and a 1917 McFarlan boat tail roadster, (with a rear body section which looked like it had been made from a wooden boat,) for $17k.  All prices are excluding commissions and fees.  There was an especially nice and quite rare 1929 Franklin Victoria Brougham with bidding stalled at $40k.  The Franklin had been professionally restored for $142k in 2006 and all receipts and restoration photos came with the car.  The owner said he'd put 1.5 miles on it since it had been restored.  He started it and it seemed to run fine.  I asked him what his reserve was and he said it didn't matter, as he will sell the car for whatever it is bid to by the end of the auction on Sunday. 

 

And yes...thousands of people elbow-to-elbow on the floor in the auction hall, having to scream in each other's faces to be heard over the deafening, amplified sound of the auctioneer.  Even though there were signs at the door restricting entrance to bidders only, I saw non-bidders enter without being challenged.  There was a separate section of bleachers in the hall for the non-bidders although there weren't a lot of people sitting there.  It was fairly easy to keep others at a double-arm's length in the tents while looking at the cars, but not so in the auction hall. 

Besides my wife and I, there were barely a handful of people wearing masks.  

 

Although all pictures were provided by the sellers, Mecum has them locked on their site to prevent copying.  I was able to do screen shots and then save them for my own reference, but won't post them here due to potential copywrite infringement.  I took a few pictures of cars I was interested in while there.  Although lighting was not good, here's a sample.  1929 Franklin, 1930 Lincoln Coupe, 1931 Packard shovelnose sedan, 1933 Hudson Essex Terraplane rumble seat roadster, and a gorgeous 1929 Essex boat tail, rumble seat, roadster which crossed the block for $135k.

Thanks for posting some real cars

[Frank DuVal]

3 hours ago, George Cole said:

This is the one my wife was pissed about me not bidding on.

George, console yourself knowing if you bid, the winning bid would be greater than the $18K. Limited only by how high the winning bidder was willing to go against you.😎

 

 

[1937hd45]

Rebodied with one that looks correct and it could be on the lawn at Pebble Beach in five years. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[motoringicons]

Some prewar cars did well. There were some very average/low quality Model A Fords that all sold in the 20K range. During the first weekend, a very well worn, poor quality, older restoration 1930-31 Packard STANDARD Eight phaeton sold for about 150K. But the real surprise was this Dodge Brothers that sold today. There were LOTS of bidders on this car up to about 300-350K and then a couple that duked it out to the end.  I realize it is a "movie car", but, personally, I never really cared for this movie....

Edited January 17, 2022 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

OVER a HALF MILLION for a DB Touring car????????????????? That's Biden wall art money.

[JV Puleo]

Which shows how disconnected I am from the world of (to use an oxymoron) pop culture. I wouldn't pay an extra dime for a movie car regardless of who once sat in it. I do have a question about the McFarlan. I've never seen one much less taken one apart. Was it any good? I know other expensive cars were extremely well made. I've worked on numerous Silver Ghosts and PIs and I'll take Ed's word that the top end Pierce Arrows are in the same category. I'd say the same about the FRP/Porter we've discussed simply because the original designer was so well known and respected. I'm sure Locomobile fits this description as well, at least through the early to mid-20s. What I am certain of is that none of the movie star type buyers of the McFarlan were impressed by much more than the price. A lot of people presume that more expensive means better...but that is often not the case.

[gossp]

6 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

Which shows how disconnected I am from the world of (to use an oxymoron) pop culture. I wouldn't pay an extra dime for a movie car regardless of who once sat in it. I do have a question about the McFarlan. I've never seen one much less taken one apart. Was it any good? I know other expensive cars were extremely well made. I've worked on numerous Silver Ghosts and PIs and I'll take Ed's word that the top end Pierce Arrows are in the same category. I'd say the same about the FRP/Porter we've discussed simply because the original designer was so well known and respected. I'm sure Locomobile fits this description as well, at least through the early to mid-20s. What I am certain of is that none of the movie star type buyers of the McFarlan were impressed by much more than the price. A lot of people presume that more expensive means better...but that is often not the case.

until very recently a good friend of mine had a McFarlan touring car, it was an absolute muscle car for its era and a couple eras after it. 

[1937hd45]

The Fatty Arbuckle McFarlan may be the most famous, a bit newer that one in the weekend auction. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I have been interested in McFarlan's for some time . Primarily because many of the earlier ones  used a Teetor Hartley engine. The cars themselves are a bit big for my taste. But I am attracted to cars with a bit of a sporting nature rather than outright luxury. From what I have read about them they were a high quality product. I have only ever seen one in person. It's now in the Fountainhead collection in Alaska. Pretty impressive car.

 I like It's a Wonderful Life as a movie, my wife makes sure we watch it every Christmas season. But that sort of a price for the Dodge is just crazy.

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

If you have problems with "collector car" prices, high end kitchen remodeling will drive you totally out of your mind. I have to help gut one on Thursday. One I really liked cost $200,000.+ in a new custom built home, two years later it was in a dumpster because the new owner had different likes. It is THEIR money, it allows skilled works to also make a living. 

 

Bob

 

 

That is EXACTLY what happened next door to me!!  (I also mentioned it here: )

 

 

After the new owners paid nearly $700K for the house, the kitchen was too 'dark', and she didn't like cooking with gas.  They immediately tore it all out and replaced the darker granite counters with a white quartz, and replaced the stainless steel appliances with white ones (with ones equally expensive), and removed the gas cooktop with an electric 'induction' one.

 

Craig

[rocketraider]

Wonder did one-a them HGTV shows foot the bill?

 

Never understood anyone paying near full-market for a house and first thing they do is gut and remodel. If you didn't like the house why did you buy it? Kinda like what some of these knuckleheads do with cars- what is the point in undoing a nice original or correctly restored car just to put your own questionable stamp on it?

 

Me, I LIKE a gas stove... cookin' with gas, baby! I also like Formica countertops, vintage appliances, and colored tile and bathroom fixtures (pink, light green or blue, almond, tan etc)... is it any wonder I'm on an OLD car forum? Where OLD things and style are appreciated?

 

Damn having the same thing everyone else has or is told they should have, be it car, house, whatever. Following the herd absolutely not my style.

[nearchoclatetown]

3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

OVER a HALF MILLION for a DB Touring car????????????????? That's Biden wall art money.

Worth every penny!

[George Cole]

4 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

George, console yourself knowing if you bid, the winning bid would be greater than the $18K. Limited only by how high the winning bidder was willing to go against you.😎

 

 

Hey Frank, yes, I understand.  But the bidding process was slow and seemingly strained to get to $18k.  The auctioneer was pushing hard to get the last couple of grand, so it appeared it might not go much higher had I been in the mix.  Then again, you never know.

[John348]

16 hours ago, John Bloom said:

I’m pretty sure that car has changed hands 3 or 4 times in the last 24 months.  And each time discussed here. 
 

Common sense tells me there is reason why it changed hands so many times and why it on sold for $18K, that is pocket change for a lot of the dealers that were down there, I am not talking about people just spending money, I am talking about the dealers who brought in inventory and were looking to change their floor plan.  There is something we don't see in the photo's. For all we know there is visible smear 2' long of JB weld over crack on the block. 

 

I had most of all the coverage I live stream on the computer, I can't tolerate the TV coverage with constant commercials, and the two talking heads giving the play by play, who were just out and out wrong on the cars I am familiar with anyway. At least the Barret Jackson Team seems to have done some sort of research on the vehicles before they open their mouth. One thing I do like better with the coverage of Mecum is they don't focus on the bidders and make them the stars of the show, they don't even mention the winning bidders name, where as at Barret Jackson they must tell us "that another car bought by Ron (or somebody else)" like the viewer really gives a crap. 

 

  

Edited January 17, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

22 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

Easier said than done. All W30s were built at the Lansing plant, and Lansing did not leave build sheets in the cars. If one is lucky, you will sometimes find a Fisher Body broadcast card in the interior that will show the W30 code, but even then it has been documented that cars built prior to Dec 1969 didn't get that code.

Unless you get a 442 exported new to Canada. Then you can get the GM Vintage Vehicle documents for $120. These show all the build info, production codes, options, colors, etc. As per my 1972. It also helped that I got a lot of original doc's from the original owner.

[Ed Luddy]

Ok, who needs a Hirohata Merc? Here's mine. 1/12 scale porcelain #20 of 100. For far,far less than 1/12th the price!

[TAKerry]

I dont quite understand the auction bashing. Like a certain tv or radio channel no one is forced to participate. I have bought a lot of antique motorcycles and construction equipment at auction. Always had a good experience and a good time. One needs to be a bit diligent and guarded though. I am sure at Mecum and BJ there is a catalogue and a preview time. Although its been a few years I would always get there a day before and go through things. I would get the catalogue in advance, pick out the vehicles I wanted to bid on. We would have a few levels and make marks as noted. The piece we WANTED would be highest priority and we would figure the value, and what our top bid would be. Next level would be A NICE PIECE TO HAVE if the price was right. Yet another level would be IF THE PRICE IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE which is a vehicle that we may have zero interest but the value was too great to pass up (flipper). Once at the auction site all of the vehicles marked were thoroughly inspected with some being scratched because they were just too bad to bid on. Our WHAT WE WILL HIGH BID price was established. I travelled with my brother and we were a checks and balances type of deal. Keeps one from getting emotional with the high bid. I dont think we ever bid more than we wanted and we won quite a few times in all of the above categories.. Also lost a lot but didnt loose any sleep.  This formula worked very well whether buying a scissor lift at construction auction or a high end motorcycle.

 

If one just shows up with a blank check and buys something because it looks pretty on the block then buyer beware!

 

George C brought up a memory of a what if? Henderson 4 motocycle. It fit the nice piece to have category. We knew it would go out of our range so didnt figure on bidding. It was a NR and bidding stalled at something like $25k. We didnt hesitate and jumped right in. Became a bidding war between us and the other guy. We finally tapped out at $35k or so. At the time this was easily a $50k motorcycle, I cant imagine the value now. BUT, had we kept bidding it may have gone to $75k who knows??

[joe_padavano]

3 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I dont quite understand the auction bashing.

 

Yeah, but... When Joe Sixpack watches these on cable, he immediately thinks his POS that has been rotting into the ground for the last 30 years is worth a million bucks. On the other hand, the increase in value of 60s cars has led to the introduction of a lot of previously unavailable repro parts in the last two decades, so there are two sides to this.

Edited January 17, 2022 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

I’m amazed real bidders at the auction keep bidding when they can’t see the person bidding against them. The mystery bidder always seems to drop out just before the reserve is met. Amazing how they know they won’t ever have to open their wallets. The seller is happy, the auction house is happy and I will bet the buyer is overjoyed he won! That is until he finds out the car isn’t worth driving home a lot of the times. LOL but this is the current TV entertainment reality show craze. Go to a non TV but legitimate  auction and you don’t see anything like this bull. Spend the time driving your car, dvr the show if you really need to see it and fast forward 95% of it, you will have more entertainment. 
dave s 

Edited January 17, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[alsancle]

17 hours ago, George Cole said:

Here's the 1930 Pierce Arrow which was driven across the blocks for $18k plus fees...only a grand above the reserve.  Even with what looks like an incorrect interior, it should have been worth twice that.  This is the one my wife was pissed about me not bidding on.

 

 

There are three sold entries in Mecum's database for this car:

 

1. 2022 Kissimmee  19,800

2. 2021 Orlando 17,760

3. 2021 Kissimmee  26,400.

 

This 32 brought 55k which I think is all the money in the world, especially given the door gaps.

 

[Walt G]

I don't attend a lot of auctions - last one I did I bought my 1930 Packard 733 around 2016 or so  one before that was when Austin Clark auctioned cars at his museum - I made the bid pallets for him for that which had to be 45+ years ago.

McFarlan - have seen a fair number of them, I guess compared to most people - there was one at Steve Babinsky's shop a few years ago, a friend from around the Albany, NY area had two in mostly chassis form about 50 years ago - Vernon Stone, who was a very cool guy and friend from the Franklin club.  I never drove one but had the chance to do a fairly close inspection of them and was indeed impressed , expect they were some what truck like to be the pilot of.

SO the comments here make me wonder re "the " famou$ "Pebble" lawn party - how many cars there are rebody/repro replicas?  Does that have to be stated it is a replica on the entry form to be considered by the selection committee?

[alsancle]

25 minutes ago, Walt G said:

I don't attend a lot of auctions - last one I did I bought my 1930 Packard 733 around 2016 or so  one before that was when Austin Clark auctioned cars at his museum - I made the bid pallets for him for that which had to be 45+ years ago.

McFarlan - have seen a fair number of them, I guess compared to most people - there was one at Steve Babinsky's shop a few years ago, a friend from around the Albany, NY area had two in mostly chassis form about 50 years ago - Vernon Stone, who was a very cool guy and friend from the Franklin club.  I never drove one but had the chance to do a fairly close inspection of them and was indeed impressed , expect they were some what truck like to be the pilot of.

SO the comments here make me wonder re "the " famou$ "Pebble" lawn party - how many cars there are rebody/repro replicas?  Does that have to be stated it is a replica on the entry form to be considered by the selection committee?

 

Maybe we need a McFarlan thread.  I know there is a forum member (Jcrow) with one.

 

When you fill out your entrance application for Pebble they want to know everything.   But if they are filling out a McFarlan class,  that is very different than trying to get your rebodied Packard in to the Packard class.

[John348]

55 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

There are three sold entries in Mecum's database for this car:

 

1. 2022 Kissimmee  19,800

2. 2021 Orlando 17,760

3. 2021 Kissimmee  26,400.

 

This 32 brought 55k which I think is all the money in the world, especially given the door gaps.

 

Most likely the seller/owner is just buying their own car back, and might even have a deal worked out with Mecum in advance, for all we know Mecum might even own it, after all they are just pushing tin to get green. It is good publicity, gets people to purchase bidders passes for on line bidding,

I have noticed especially with the BJ coverage sort of what could be interpreted as a 'pump and dump' scheme. I recall seeing K/5 Blazer going across the block for some stupid money on Tuesday, and one of the talking heads went on to comment how Blazers are the "next big thing" and "how BJ has some of the finest examples coming up in the next five days"  They made a great attempt to inflate the price on those Blazers coming up on the docket. Who owned those Blazers? Who bought the Blazer that sold for the high price? No one knows. I have two friends of mine who sold cars at BJ Mohegan Sun and the cars sold for less then BJ cataloged them for and they ended up going to BJ's showroom in AZ, and both cars ended being sold at BJ's in Scottsdale.

I am pretty sure Mecum has a similar business model, but it does allow people to buy and sell cars. and provides entertainment.

 

More then likely Dodge Touring car was purchased for a business proposition. Just think what a major department store Like Macy's in Herald Square would pay to rent that car for a week for photos?   A Wonderful Life is Timeless, $20,K easy, just to get tourist traffic in the store  

 

 

[edinmass]

21 hours ago, 32tatra said:

I have been in this hobby over 50 years, and have been involved with three major clubs in the New York area.  In all that time, I only know of one member of the different clubs, that ever brought a car at one of these auctions.  Matter of fact he brought two cars,  1953 Ford Panel truck street  rod and a 2014 Mercedes Benz.  This makes me  wonder, how many of these buyers belong to the AACA???? Or other clubs?

The other thing is I would like to see. Is the kitchens of these guys spending all this money.  I notice that when a guy spends a lot of money on a car, and his wife is sitting next to him, they kiss and smile at each other.  I can't see a guy spending this kind of money on a car and then telling the wife she can't have her $100,000 kitchen!! 

Just once, I would like to see the a guy buy a big money car and then turn to the wife and say "There goes our IRA, we will be having tuna fish tonight."

With the news media telling us how hard times are with Covid and everything else, what are these people's secret that they have so much money, they can buy a car with issues and not worry about it!  I guess if I ever win Powerball, I could be like that!

 

 

 

A 100k kitchen? In 2004 when I built my house, the granite alone was 80k.........ironically, today it would be less than 30. 

[alsancle]

My problem with the Dodge is that there is nothing remarkable about it and if you didn't tell me what it was I would just think it was any other old DB.

 

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

A 100k kitchen? In 2004 when I built my house, the granite alone was 80k.........ironically, today it would be less than 30. 

Say Ed , not to be a D**K, but at least a couple of times on the forum you have stated you are just a regular guy , of regular means. How does that square with 80 G's worth of granite ? In 2004 my whole place was worth about $200 G's Canadian, and paying the mortgage , student loans and childcare left both my Nurse wife and I with dust in our wallets at the end of each month. And we were considered to be on the verge of upper middle class by Canadian standards. Still the same 50 year old arborite on our counters today. A few more chips , stains and burn marks.

 

 

[John348]

45 minutes ago, alsancle said:

My problem with the Dodge is that there is nothing remarkable about it and if you didn't tell me what it was I would just think it was any other old DB.

 

 

I don't disagree but there must be some sort of paper trail, and it will be just like OJ's Bronco. It will make money as a tourist attraction 

Edited January 17, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)