Period images to relieve some of the stress

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[30DodgePanel]

6 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

 

I had hoped that plate on the side of the frame might help but the photo is too small.

 

Any better?

 

 

My guess is 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

10 hours ago, twin6 said:

Another mystery car.  I thought "where's the mother-in-law seat?" and then wondered if that's her, after disposing of the seat (and son-in-law).

First El Camino mule?

[HK500]

Facel-Vega factory photo titled " Coupe 2 portes - 4 places. Reference "F.V.S"   The F.V.S was was the immediate predecessor to the HK500.

[1912Staver]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:06 PM, wayne sheldon said:

I think we need a prewar photo about now?

This one showed up in the model T forum a few days ago (Thank you Rich B). So far, no really good guesses what it is/was. Certainly an unusual car. My first thought (for about two seconds) was Hupmobile, long chassis model 20 of 1911 or 1912. However, clearly it is not. While the car appears to be rather small, relatively speaking, the hood is too long, hubcaps and several other details are not right for a Hupp 20. The long chassis Hupp 20 was usually a touring car, of small proportions. Based upon the size of the men, it does appear to be about a Hupp 20 size? This car looks almost like a half-size Ford 6-40 roadster/model K? 

 

 

Possibly an Otto ? They have a long hood and greater than normal for the era set back of the radiator. I have not seen one in person , but a couple of them have survived. This might be a smaller car however going by the size of the people seated in it.

 

 

[LCK81403]

This is a mystery car.  I don't think it is an Otto.  A 1910 Otto ad shows a touring car with a hood (bonnet) that is not as long as the mystery car.  Also a prime recognition feature of the Otto was the arched front fenders and straight rear fenders.  The mystery car has straight fenders at the front and curved at the rear.  Comparing the mystery car to the 1910 Otto there is a significant difference in the dash, with the mystery car having a curved (pressed ?) dash whereas the Otto has a more or less straight dash.  The Otto also mounts the gas headlamps differently than the mystery car.

 

The mystery car apparently has a splash shield under the car that encloses and protects the drive components including the engine, transmission and universal joint.  In old Auto Journal texts in the 1907-10 time frame I read about splash shields, and sometimes the shields were a selling point, or item of note, for a car model.  I believe Hugh Dolnar mentioned shields in some of the articles he wrote.

 

[1912Staver]

I agree about the detail differences. But the general similarity is there. An early prototype or perhaps a owner modified car ? The front spring design is completely different . But many people developed aftermarket " improved " suspension accessories, some of which saw success and many which sunk without a trace. 

 Perhaps this is a car based on an Otto that has been modified to showcase an enterprising owners big idea.

 Of course it may also simply be a different car altogether.

 

Greg

[twin6]

[coachJC]

[coachJC]

Looks like someone may be having some car issues...hoods up and you can see some feet on the far side of the car.

[LCK81403]

The identify of the mystery car may now be solved.  The closest match of identity features seems to show a 1908 Maryland.  The mystery car has the unique or peculiar mating of the rear of the running board with the front of the rear fender.  The front and rear fenders and the integration of running board with rear fender appears to be a very good visual match for mystery car and '08 Maryland.  This fender-running board-fender profile is different with the 1910 Otto (the yellow museum car).

[keiser31]

12 minutes ago, LCK81403 said:

The identify of the mystery car may now be solved.  The closest match of identity features seems to show a 1908 Maryland.  The mystery car has the unique or peculiar mating of the rear of the running board with the front of the rear fender.  The front and rear fenders and the integration of running board with rear fender appears to be a very good visual match for mystery car and '08 Maryland.  This fender-running board-fender profile is different with the 1910 Otto (the yellow museum car).

Not a Maryland. The front springs on the car in question are full elliptical springs. The springs on the others mentioned have a frame on top of a lower set of springs.

Edited April 22, 2021 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

3 hours ago, coachJC said:

Looks like someone may be having some car issues...hoods up and you can see some feet on the far side of the car.

 

This one was identified by Varun Cutinho on facebook as a 1910 Pierce-Racine. 

 

Proof photo from the Detroit Public Library collection.

 

 

[30DodgePanel]

Unusual body with curved doors. 

Chevy special body type?

 

[BobinVirginia]

I absolutely enjoy learning about cars of yesterday. Thanks to all of you for sharing knowledge about vehicle brands lost to time. 

[BobinVirginia]

I hope to carry on knowledge of early American car manufacturing to other generations. I’m a gen X person that knows a lot regarding the muscle car era. However, the prewar cars and knowledge is getting lost. Please share anything you want! The knowledge is well received! I could care less about topic! 

[1912Staver]

8 hours ago, keiser31 said:

Not a Maryland. The front springs on the car in question are full elliptical springs. The springs on the others mentioned have a frame on top of a lower set of springs.

 

 

The car matches the Maryland in every respect except those front springs. I think it must be either a very early version that used full elliptic springs or a modified from stock car.  Maryland is a pretty obscure car so possibly some used springs like the photo car. possibly a hold over from the Ariel car that the Maryland was developed from. 

[wayne sheldon]

I am somewhat surprised, and pleased, by how much interest and effort this mystery car has garnered. I have looked (more closely than most do!) at many thousands of early car photos over the years. I thought that this might be a tough one. Other than my two second first impression, it didn't ring any bells for me.

Size is difficult without known comparisons. However, the man in the bowler hat reminds me of me when I sit in some small early cars (I am six foot even), right down to the trouser cuffs riding high. From that, and figuring the other fellow is probably of average size (for the day), I suspect this car is rather small, likely about the size of a Hupp 20, only longer chassis. Looking at the Otto in the museum photo, with a model T delivery truck behind it, I suspect the Otto is considerably larger, even slightly larger than a model T in size (ever seen a Hupp 20 parked next to a brass era T? I have.

The Maryland comes quite a bit closer. However, none of the Maryland photos have a good size reference. Checking with Kimes and Clark, I find that the Maryland had wheelbases beginning at 100 inches, and stretching up to around 116 inches. The Maryland was manufactured for four years (1907-1910). The front spring bothers me a bit. I would accept that changes were often being made in those early years, between models, parts availability, and year changes as well as simply making-do with something that happened to be handy when needed. But what really bothers me about it. is the set-back position of the radiator. The mystery car's radiator is clearly a few inches behind the front axle's center. The Maryland, if anything, the radiator's face is a couple inches ahead of the axle's center.

I even looked at the Ariel in Kimes and Clark. It may have been the forerunner of the Maryland (according to Kimes and Clark), but nothing shown of the Ariel really resembles the Maryland details.

The Maryland may still be a contender? 

Somebody, somewhere, will know this one the minute they see it! Meanwhile?

 

Thanks all for you interest! I just figured it was a good one for a mystery.

[hook]

A lot of Franklins have lions on their grille..........Come to think of it, this one does too! Now 48 years later I don't think I'd let her sit on my hood now.

 

 

[J.H.Boland]

11 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Unusual body with curved doors. 

Chevy special body type?

 

 

This was likely purchased from a dealer as a cowl and chassis, then sent to a local body builder to be fitted with the neat C cab panel delivery.

[alsancle]

Ok,  who knows of a LHD Three Wheeler?

 

 

[LCK81403]

Wayne, who doesn't like a good mystery?  Mysteries are to research, document, speculate, postulate, document; it keeps a person's mind involved in the subject matter.  I do like the complimentary fender and running board flow lines of the Maryland and the mystery car.  I do realize that it may only be a common feature and not the true identifying feature.  The general appearance of the mystery car kind of suggests an underslung but obviously it is not an underslung.  Nonetheless it does seem to have a "low rider" look about it that was common with the underslung cars.  In a way that I can't quite understand, mystery car has some design element of the 1907 Colt Runabout, although the fenders most resemble the Maryland.

 

Now this raised an case in point.  Are we confident the mystery car actually has a gasoline engine?  Notice that most of these early cars had several large levers that were involved with the drive train and brakes.  No such levers are evident on this mystery car.  The length of the hood of this car is remarkable for its length, and also the apparent fact that there is leakage of some fluid where the left-rear corner of the hood meets the cowl.  Also under the cowl there is apparent leakage of a fluid.  Is it possible this car is a steamer?  That could explain the length of the hood that would cover the steam engine and boiler.  The two passengers in the car could be sitting on a water tank.  Hence the apparent wet spots at the hood/cowl, and under the cowl/floor board could simply be leaking water.  ?

[dictator27]

The car has a crank handle which would eliminate the steamer idea.  The top of a lever (gear shift?)can be seen above the cowl.

Edited April 23, 2021 by dictator27 (see edit history)

[LCK81403]

Well, yeesh, your are correct.  It does have a crank handle; presumably that rules out the first and only hand cranked steam engine.  Ha.

 

I hear "Maryland my Maryland" playing in the background.

 

 

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[twin6]

[HK500]

On 1/30/2021 at 5:36 PM, edinmass said:

The Singer Josephine Baker with a Delage. Body by Letourneur et Marchand.  There's another picture in a French magazine that identifies her and it's the same car, but this is a much better photo.  Note the center door handle.

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[ply33]

I have to say that @Dave Gelinas (XP-300) has been posting a lot of incredibly good photos! Thanks!

[Walt G]

37 minutes ago, ply33 said:

I have to say that @Dave Gelinas (XP-300) has been posting a lot of incredibly good photos! Thanks!

I agree completely!  And they are not all Buicks either!!!   Thanks Dave...................

I just noticed we are at 320 pages and 275,000 views , I guess there are a few of us out here that like period photos and images - this has gone well beyond what I ever expected it would.  Many thanks again.

WG

[Pilgrim65]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

I have to say that @Dave Gelinas (XP-300) has been posting a lot of incredibly good photos! Thanks!

I must also thank him also , particularly loved his period Hollywood images  showing some old stars with great cars 

many thanks 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)

[HK500]

What city?  What streetcorner? and which series custom coachbuilder's work can be just barely seen in the window?

[Walt G]

I won't start to post sales literature as that would change this format a bit, but did want to share this with you. It is a sales flyer from the inside of a sales catalog ( folder was an addition for the motor show) in 1931 for WYLDER & Co. Coachbuilders of Kew Gardens in Surrey , England. They show their coachwork on a British Talbot chassis. There are 14 pages in the actual catalog with some fantastic bodies on an assortment of chassis. Many styles from town cars and open tourers to a club sedan that is a exact duplicate of a V16 Marmon that was current at that year in the USA.

4 minutes ago, HK500 said:

What city?  What streetcorner? and which series custom coachbuilder's work can be just barely seen in the window?

Maddox was the Lincoln dealer in California and the location is most likely Los Angeles. To dark for me to tell what the coach builder was but a look at the Custom Body Salon program of that era may give a clue, I will look later to see if it does and report what I may find if anything.

[Fossil]

Dave thanks for the photos and if you have an extra one of those Oscar Mayer delivery vans laying around I'll take it. 😁

 

 

[58L-Y8]

52 minutes ago, HK500 said:

What city?  What streetcorner? and which series custom coachbuilder's work can be just barely seen in the window?

1928-'30 Lincoln L quarter-window convertible victoria by Dietrich, appears to be Style 181

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

4 hours ago, ply33 said:

I have to say that @Dave Gelinas (XP-300) has been posting a lot of incredibly good photos! Thanks!

 

4 hours ago, Walt G said:

I agree completely!  And they are not all Buicks either!!!   Thanks Dave...................

I just noticed we are at 320 pages and 275,000 views , I guess there are a few of us out here that like period photos and images - this has gone well beyond what I ever expected it would.  Many thanks again.

WG

Thanks guys your the best.

[jukejunkie1015]

Seattle Dealerships.

 

Kurt M

Tacoma WA

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by jukejunkie1015 (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Scroll to "Auto Show Section' for 1913:  The Toronto World - Google News Archive Search

 

(I posted the 1911 "Auto Show Section" in a previous post.)

 

Craig

[Walt G]

Kurt, wow thanks for sharing those, I Love that Auburn dealership in the first photo. Do you know if that building still exists?

[Walt G]

The New York City Rolls-Royce dealership in the mid to late 1920s would have sales flyers/folders printed of cars that were for sale that they took in on trade on a Rolls-Royce. All kinds of cars, besides R-R as can be seen here in a partial view of the sales folder . Would be an interesting article to cover the R-R and Packard used car sales in the 1927 to 1935 era in New York City that I have material on.