Period images to relieve some of the stress

[Walt G]

14 hours ago, Robert G. Smits said:

Another Electric NYC sightseeing bus from 1905

No stairs, no platforms to get up in or out to be seen. Yikes , just newsboys up at the left of the photo hawking the latest newspaper. Today everyone would be looking at their personal phone for the latest news, back then most people didn't have a phone either and if they did it was a "candlestick" version or perhaps even mounted to a wall. Yes, I like the printed word, so love paper, and yes I have a candlestick phone on my desk from the WWI era that works and was at one time in a mansion on James Street in Syracuse, NY and rescued when the mansions there were torn down in the name of "progress". I know that comment will lead some of you to think "he is a fogey and a geezer" well perhaps, and I do not deny my favorite vehicles have running boards - old or new.

[twin6]

Some public transport in California, with running boards.

[Robert G. Smits]

Some public transportation in rural Cuba October 2019. Sorry no running boards

[hook]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

No stairs, no platforms to get up in or out to be seen. Yikes , just newsboys up at the left of the photo hawking the latest newspaper. Today everyone would be looking at their personal phone for the latest news, back then most people didn't have a phone either and if they did it was a "candlestick" version or perhaps even mounted to a wall. Yes, I like the printed word, so love paper, and yes I have a candlestick phone on my desk from the WWI era that works and was at one time in a mansion on James Street in Syracuse, NY and rescued when the mansions there were torn down in the name of "progress". I know that comment will lead some of you to think "he is a fogey and a geezer" well perhaps, and I do not deny my favorite vehicles have running boards - old or new.

Well you can't carry your candle stick or wall phone with you but, I found one suited to us old geezers.

[twin6]

[Robert G. Smits]

Cuba public transportation in the larger rural settings. These are trucks left over when the Russian’s pulled out and converted to people haulers. People will stand along the highway for hours trying to get a ride to the next town. Even in Havana the wait at a bus stop can be so long that they have vendors with food and drinks 

[Walt G]

Big truck in Cuba hauling people - well, it would be just right at home working the distance between the flea market fields at Hershey hauling people 🙃!

[Robert G. Smits]

Walt. we can only dream!!!

[58L-Y8]

Here's a better look at Longyear Packard's press:

[58L-Y8]

One design feature that shows up occasionally on large cars in the early decades is the long, sweeping front fenders well before it became one of the primary aspects that renders the early 1930's Classics so appealing.  Except for a graceful, fillet transition to the running boards, the basic design is present.  The close-fitting front fender with long running boards were practical but lacked the graceful elegance.

 

Also seen in this image is another primary reason large seven passenger touring cars with powerful, big displacement engines, guessing Locomobile 48 here, are so rare now beyond their initial relatively low sales numbers due to their original high prices.  Once these behemoths entered the used car market, the cost to buy and maintain such a car was beyond the financial capability of the majority.   Their prestige having been usurped by the latest new luxury cars, only their capable utility and potential durability were qualities that made them useful as auto stage bus lines and for conversion to cargo and tow trucks.  The hard service lives thereafter pretty well extracted whatever use was to be wrung from them, except for the scrap prices gleaned from their material content.   Its amazing any examples are still extant.   

[J. Hawkins]

16 hours ago, Walt G said:

Sadovich was a very active dealer of Duesenbergs in Paris. He always made sure as many cars as possible got good press coverage in all the car periodicals in France such as La Carrossiere, Omnia , La Vie Automobile , Le Equipment . Not sure what connection he had developed with the A-C- D Company in Indiana , but it obviously was a good one and he was well known by coach builders in both France and England. I believe he even had a sales piece published in France on Duesenberg specifically. I have seen it and may even have one here someplace.  Sadovich would also make sure that there was a Duesenberg at the annual Salon in Paris and the concours in Monte Carlo and near Paris. The cars received good press at these highly acclaimed social events for the rich and famous and wannabes.

Walt

I'm interested in what kind of car is on the photo. Obviously this is transformable cabriolet Hibbard-Darrin. There were 4 such cars produced: J-195, J-254, J-319 and J-361. Which one is in the photo?

Edited May 1, 2021 by J. Hawkins (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Ok boys........try this one on for size......ID please!

 

 

 

 

Same marque, a bit later. And yes, it’s got an eight under the hood..........

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

I'm wondering how many besides the red one have survived?

 

Here is an Alvis with a Vanden Plas body.

[Walt G]

Mr.Hawkins, the press release information of the era that the cars here were pictured in ( either print accounts in periodicals or photographs) do not note the cars serial numbers so you can't look "in the era" for that kind of information to get an answer. I have never seen any car "ID" for any make ever mentioned. The dealer or manufacturer was interested in selling the product not providing specific data on a specific car they had for sale. Historians who follow specific marques through their course of ownership/life may be able to chime in here with the knowledge you seek.

WG

[Walt G]

CRASH and BOOM and AXE - C - DENT. these photos were all taken ca. 1936-1942 in the Mineola, Garden City area of long island. and came from a pile of negatives that were being thrown away when the files a major local photo studio who was a commercial photographer in that era were being disposed of 50+ years ago. I managed to borrow the negatives that a friend had picked from the trash and have prints made. SO much was just totally lost.

Anyway here are a few to make all of you think "oh geez, really" . This is what happened when the cars were only a few years old, dirt roads, wet conditions and narrow tires and no antilock brakes. Ka Boom.

1931 Chrysler coupe with 1936 NY plates and the small tag above the license plate is for a parking permit for " Roosevelt Field, Worlds Premier Airport" ( yes that is the airport where Charles Lindbergh started his solo flight to Paris)

1941 Ford convertible with a hickey in the hood, but all kinds of accessories on the nose.

Have lots more but don't want to upset to many people looking at this.

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

[41 Su8]

1941 Packard?

[ericmac]

16 hours ago, edinmass said:

Ok boys........try this one on for size......ID please!

 

 

 

 

Same marque, a bit later. And yes, it’s got an eight under the hood..........

 

 

 

 

Delage D-8 S?

[hanski]

Wikov cars.

 

Just now, hanski said:

Wikov cars. Sorry, missed the 'quote'....this is related to edinmass message.

 

 

 

[f.f.jones]

NEW YORK, NEW YORK....Lotsa rare Checker cabs

[Pilgrim65]

On 4/28/2021 at 7:20 PM, J. Hawkins said:

Unusual car ,never seen one before , looks 30s and I think it’s great , can’t make out the script on bonnet , what is it ? Thanks 

On 4/30/2021 at 12:05 AM, alsancle said:

A knew a kid in HS that has one of these.   And no, he didn't drop a 260 or 289 in to it.

Cool car then and now 

[J. Hawkins]

54 minutes ago, Pilgrim65 said:

Unusual car ,never seen one before , looks 30s and I think it’s great , can’t make out the script on bonnet , what is it ? Thanks 

Cool car then and now 

Pilgrim65, this is an experimental ZIS-Sport car, produced in the USSR in 1939. It had a 6-liter 8-cylinder engine with 141 hp. Top speed 100 mph. One such car was produced, its fate is unknown.

[HK500]

Ok here we go from easy to difficult:  1: Make & approx year of car.  2: Who is riding in the back seat? 3: what country is this? 4: What City and exact date did this occur?

[edinmass]

Too easy for me, so I shall pass and let others play. Nice photo. 👍

 

[8E45E]

23 minutes ago, HK500 said:

Ok here we go from easy to difficult:  1: Make & approx year of car.  2: Who is riding in the back seat? 3: what country is this? 4: What City and exact date did this occur?

1946 Daimler.  

 

DE36(?)

 

Craig

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, HK500 said:

Ok here we go from easy to difficult:  1: Make & approx year of car.  2: Who is riding in the back seat? 3: what country is this? 4: What City and exact date did this occur?

Queen Elizabeth and hubby.

[Walt G]

1933 Chevrolet phaeton and 1935 Plymouth

[LCK81403]

A junk car lot showing a pile of used wood spoke wheels, and one car with what appears to have a Tuarc steel wheel as its left rear.  This is an interesting photo that illustrates how wasteful of forest wood it was to not only create bodies for cars and to make wood wheel spokes.  Not just any cut of wood will do for a wood spoke.  There were a number of articles in the late teens and early 1920s about the depletion of second growth timber because of automobile production.  This subject area alone has a lot to do with supply and demand, conservation of forest products, economic production, and even recycling.

[Walt G]

"wasteful" - perhaps if viewed from today's perspective and values , thoughts about conservation etc. yes.  Take a step back to the era that that photo was taken - there were no real pressed steel body companies that were abundant , Budd of Philadelphia was one of the first in the mid 1920s.  Think also of how "wasteful" the use of coal to heat houses  was, provide fuel for stoves, fuel to power trains for mass transportation ( as defined in the era when there were no major air transportation nor coast to coast highways) also how ocean liners and most ships were fueled in that era. It is sometimes hard to put things in perspective if you are looking at things and stating a judgement call from what is current 80+ years later.  I am a local history historian as well, and it is often necessary to bring into reality for today's population why things "were so cheap" ( gasoline , taxes, new cars, used cars, house purchase) when the hourly wage was perhaps fifty cents. Gasoline was 16 cents per gallon.......

This is not a criticism of your statement , just trying again to put things into perspective .....

[Walt G]

The 8 x 10 photo this comes from on the back in someones scrawl handwriting notes  Stutz Speedway chassis, Elsworth's back yard , New Cannan, N.Y.

I am guessing it was taken in the 1950s. Sorry it is so dark, but that is what I have.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Walt G
added information (see edit history)

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

"wasteful" - perhaps if viewed from today's perspective and values , thoughts about conservation etc. yes.  Take a step back to the era that that photo was taken - there were no real pressed steel body companies that were abundant , Budd of Philadelphia was one of the first in the mid 1920s.  Think also of how "wasteful" the use of coal to heat houses  was, provide fuel for stoves, fuel to power trains for mass transportation ( as defined in the era when there were no major air transportation nor coast to coast highways) also how ocean liners and most ships were fueled in that era. It is sometimes hard to put things in perspective if you are looking at things and stating a judgement call from what is current 80+ years later.  I am a local history historian as well, and it is often necessary to bring into reality for today's population why things "were so cheap" ( gasoline , taxes, new cars, used cars, house purchase) when the hourly wage was perhaps fifty cents. Gasoline was 16 cents per gallon.......

This is not a criticism of your statement , just trying again to put things into perspective .....

Remember when publicity photos of factories and foundries belching smoke from their multiple tall chimneys were a positive sign of prosperity and good times?

 

Craig

Edited May 2, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

8 hours ago, HK500 said:

Ok here we go from easy to difficult:  1: Make & approx year of car.  2: Who is riding in the back seat? 3: what country is this? 4: What City and exact date did this occur?

 

There is a story behind those Daimlers which by coincidence is due to appear in the next issue of Beaded Wheels, the national magazine of the Vintage Car Club of New Zealand. It seems that 12 were ordered from Hoopers the body makers for the proposed 1949 tour of Australia and New Zealand by then King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (parents of the current queen). The cars - four 'all-weather', three limousines, and five landaulettes - were built and shipped ready for the tour - six each for Australia and New Zealand. Not long after the ship left UK the king became ill and the tour was cancelled. The cars were put into storage to wait for the next tour. History dictated that didn't happened until the new queen and husband Prince Phillip travelled in 1953-54. The six NZ cars were stored at the Public Service Garage in Wellington. The NZ part of the tour lasted for 39 days and the necessary cars were flown around the country to be used as needed, depending on the weather and circumstance. The royal couple travelled by train and aircraft for some parts of the tour and the cars were used for parades etc.

 

Of the 12 cars, two intended for Australia were sold to India before the tour. Of the other ten, seven have survived; one is in the the USA and of the others three are in NZ and three in Australia. 

 

The photo above looks to have been taken in Australia and I think is the all-weather model chassis #51702.

[58L-Y8]

Walt: This is as good as I can get it.

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said:

 

There is a story behind those Daimlers which by coincidence is due to appear in the next issue of Beaded Wheels, the national magazine of the Vintage Car Club of New Zealand. It seems that 12 were ordered from Hoopers the body makers for the proposed 1949 tour of Australia and New Zealand by then King George VI and Queen Elizabeth (parents of the current queen). The cars - four 'all-weather', three limousines, and five landaulettes - were built and shipped ready for the tour - six each for Australia and New Zealand. Not long after the ship left UK the king became ill and the tour was cancelled. The cars were put into storage to wait for the next tour. History dictated that didn't happened until the new queen and husband Prince Phillip travelled in 1953-54. The six NZ cars were stored at the Public Service Garage in Wellington. The NZ part of the tour lasted for 39 days and the necessary cars were flown around the country to be used as needed, depending on the weather and circumstance. The royal couple travelled by train and aircraft for some parts of the tour and the cars were used for parades etc.

 

Of the 12 cars, two intended for Australia were sold to India before the tour. Of the other ten, seven have survived; one is in the the USA and of the others three are in NZ and three in Australia. 

 

The photo above looks to have been taken in Australia and I think is the all-weather model chassis #51702.

As per the Daimler-Lanchester Owners Club site on surviving DE models:  DE Register | DLOC

 

A quote from a paragraph on the Royal Tour cars:

 

"Also in India, the Maharaja of Mysore bought at least four cars.

Firstly chassis 51703 (Hooper body number 9428), a DE36 allweather previously earmarked for the Royal Tour to Australia in 1953/54 and built in November 1948. This car is also in the Pranlal Bhogilal collection. The car, painted black, is in very good condition and running.  

Secondly, the Maharaja of Mysore bought chassis 51078, a Windover bodied DE27 from 1946, which is still in India in private hands and in great running condition.

Thirdly he bought DE36 chassis 51189, a Hooper bodied 8-seater limousine with body number 9201 also still in India, which is missing its body (and a few other essential parts) and which is going to be restored. And then the Maharaja of Mysore purchased chassis 51708 (Hooper body number 9495), the landaulette also surplus to requirements when the 53/54 Royal Tour was cancelled. This car is in the Manjusha Museum in Dharmastala, India and is being restored.

Finally, there is in India chassis 51116, a DE27 8-seater limousine with partitioning from November 1945 with Hooper body number 9221,  of which the condition is still unknown. This is probably also an ex-Mysore car. And recently (info December 2020) a DH27 with unknown chassis number was imported and restored in India."

 

Craig

[nzcarnerd]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

As per the Daimler-Lanchester Owners Club site on surviving DE models:  DE Register | DLOC

 

A quote from a paragraph on the Royal Tour cars:

 

"Also in India, the Maharaja of Mysore bought at least four cars.

Firstly chassis 51703 (Hooper body number 9428), a DE36 allweather previously earmarked for the Royal Tour to Australia in 1953/54 and built in November 1948. This car is also in the Pranlal Bhogilal collection. The car, painted black, is in very good condition and running.  

Secondly, the Maharaja of Mysore bought chassis 51078, a Windover bodied DE27 from 1946, which is still in India in private hands and in great running condition.

Thirdly he bought DE36 chassis 51189, a Hooper bodied 8-seater limousine with body number 9201 also still in India, which is missing its body (and a few other essential parts) and which is going to be restored. And then the Maharaja of Mysore purchased chassis 51708 (Hooper body number 9495), the landaulette also surplus to requirements when the 53/54 Royal Tour was cancelled. This car is in the Manjusha Museum in Dharmastala, India and is being restored.

Finally, there is in India chassis 51116, a DE27 8-seater limousine with partitioning from November 1945 with Hooper body number 9221,  of which the condition is still unknown. This is probably also an ex-Mysore car. And recently (info December 2020) a DH27 with unknown chassis number was imported and restored in India."

 

Craig

 

Of course it was the 1948 tour that was cancelled. The Australian government chose to sell two of its Daimlers while they were still in transit as it felt four were enough.

 

The 1953-54 tour went ahead and, from the point of view of both New Zealand and Australia, was wildly successful. It was the first time a reigning monarch had visited that part of the world.

[Walt G]

I want to keep you early Ford guys happy too. I don't have many Ford images or promotional material, but if any car had some kind of body/coach work modification or special build I am interested . This is a Taxi Landaulet style N. 3 with body by Anchor Top and Body Company or Cincinnati, Ohio and dates from January 1920, so was designed and built in 1919. Are there any car guys in Cincinnati who can do some research to see if the building that Anchor was in still exists? I don't have a street address but can possibly find one. The taxicab, limousine, and landaulet bodies Anchor built on the Model T chassis were sold by the George W. Copp Co. Inc. at 518 West 58th Street in New York, NY.

That had to be only a showroom as in Manhattan that is the upper west side and was and is more for luxury living space.

There is just so much stuff that has never been seen since it was new that still exists in collections but rarely comes into view for many people to see. I hope that this thread continues to encourage that. Share the wealth everyone, share the knowledge, it will bring some good feelings to many and perhaps can give them a "wow - I never saw that before" moment , that all of us indeed need.

Walt

[wayne sheldon]

That is an interesting one Walt!

Ford, it is well known, built and sold a variety of Towncars, limousines, and landaulets from 1908 until about midyear 1917.  With the brass radiator cars ending with the 1916 model year, very few (relatively speaking) of the black radiator towncar/landaulets were built. One of the many mysteries of the model T is why did Ford stop making and selling the towncars? Although it was mostly a niche market, the towncars actually sold very well throughout their production from Ford, and the profit margin on them was high. Speculation is that Ford had all he could handle supplying the demand for regular cars, and the odd cars with limited markets just weren't worth the trouble to him. Across the nine years that Ford did build them, many thousands were sold! Because most of them first sold directly into taxi service, they were used hard, and very high mileage. Very few real original such cars survived anywhere near intact. Most were worn out and junked when little over five years old. About a third of the "Ford-built" towncars existing today were built up from very poor remnants of an original car. Maybe a quarter of the ones today were basically intact real original survivors. The rest, today, are re-fabrications, ranging in quality from very nice to really nasty.

Of course, the demand for model T taxicabs didn't end when Ford quit building them. Unknown numbers of body companies offered after-market bodies to fit the Ford chassis. Many of them had some sort of towncar or landaulet in their lineup. And the truth is, that very little is known about almost ANY of them! Several known survivors exist to this day, and easily half of them, nobody even knows who originally built the body!? Somehow, even the real survivors of these, seem to have lost their body builder's tags somewhere through the decades.

Several people have recreated such black era T towncars. A few are very nicely done. (Again, some are horrible!)

 

A lot of missing pieces to that puzzle! Thank you for sharing one piece of it.

[8E45E]

NOT 'period' photos but of a National bodied 1919 Model T which is in the LeMay Museum.

 

Craig

 

[Walt G]

Wayne, that Copp Co. offered 6 versions of limousines and landaulets. the sales catalog shows 3 other ones plus a rear interior view.

It also lists details of the interiors and of construction , equipment and that they could be boxed for export! I believe I have a few other folders and catalogs on Model T coachwork not supplied by Ford Motor Company.  Copp notes that the bodies were hand painted with varnish and then sanded to perfection.
Brewster & Co. would finish that cars they did that same way. Just so many stories never told, it takes time to put the information together ( and know where to look to find it)  to get the accurate story and picture of how things were done. I have been doing this for decades and am still learning. It is not something you will find on Wikipedia. 🙄

The AACA magazine doesn't have the room for material like this, so I have been told. 

[8E45E]

Did Henry ever sell his Model T (cars, not TT trucks) as "chassis only" to aftermarket body builders such as these?

 

Or were Model T passenger cars only sold complete, and left up to the aftermarket coachbuilder to remove and either discard, or reuse parts from the original body?

 

Craig