Period images to relieve some of the stress

[alsancle]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:49 PM, John_Mereness said:

 

 

Interesting.   My first thought was that this became this.  But I don't think so.  They are both RHD.

 

 

 

[hook]

Just think how many trees that your little flash drives have saved. This is 4.5 mega bites in 1955. Then for those who thought Chevrolet was the only division that toyed with coming out with a sports car. Then, like the Borg said: "resistance is futile" 1918 flu

Edited April 6, 2021 by hook
left out (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Derham Body Co. of Rosemont, Pa. built this town car body on a Chrysler Chassis in 1937. Lower body structure below the belt line was Chrysler sedan and modifications were done above that and to the interior. With the Great Depression going on the demand for custom bodied luxury cars grew less , among one of the reasons was that the wealthy people who could afford a custom car did not want to be "in the face" of many who had no jobs nor enough to eat, so some cars were still being built for customers by Derham but were not as dramatic in appearance. Derham also became a dealership for Chrysler about 1937 so had a ready supply of chassis/cars that could be altered for customers, a good number of Chrysler 8 and 6 cylinder cars would see the factory bodies modified to give those cars a unique look . The last sales catalog Derham issued for custom cars was in 1967.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[8E45E]

2 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Derham also became a dealership for Chrysler about 1937 so had a ready supply of chassis/cars that could be altered for customers, a good number of Chrysler 8 and 6 cylinder cars would see the factory bodies modified to give those cars a unique look . The last sales catalog Derham issued for custom cars was in 1967.

 

I do know Derham did some alterations to Packards and Hudsons after the war, including a 1951 for the Mrs. Barit, the wife of the President of Hudson at the time.

 

Craig

[Walt G]

Craig, you are correct. Derham would work on any car a customer wanted! They took on the Chrysler franchise as a backup for extra $ income on a regular basis . In the late 1940's - 1947-48 they did full customs on Dodge chassis, at least two I am aware of and have photos of . In the late 1950s and early 1960s with much revolutions ( today deemed/labeled  unrest?) going on in South America and Cuba they had a increase in work to armor plate and bomb proof automobiles as well.

Walt

[58L-Y8]

9 hours ago, hanski said:

It's a Meteor (Philadelphia).

Thanks, I knew there were a related contemporaries to the Biddle, the Meteor also of Philadelphia and the Argonne of Jersey City, N.J.   

 

AJ:  I don't think that was a Stutz...it was an Hispano-Suiza!

Edited April 6, 2021 by 58L-Y8
Hispano-Suiza (see edit history)

[hook]

2 hours ago, Walt G said:

Craig, you are correct. Derham would work on any car a customer wanted! They took on the Chrysler franchise as a backup for extra $ income on a regular basis . In the late 1940's - 1947-48 they did full customs on Dodge chassis, at least two I am aware of and have photos of . In the late 1950s and early 1960s with much revolutions ( today deemed/labeled  unrest?) going on in South America and Cuba they had a increase in work to armor plate and bomb proof automobiles as well.

Walt

Hey guys,

While we're on the Derham subject. I saw this Caddy in Hemmings back in 2019. They said the present top was vinyl, but the original was leather. Just like the top on your former 1931 Franklin Derham Walt. It was listed as a 1948.

Bill

Edited April 6, 2021 by hook
left out (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Bill, Yes indeed. This Cadillac has the Derham script badge emblem that was starting to be used by them in about 1941. If you look on the photo of the 1937 town car I posted just in front of the lower front door bottom hinge you will see a small triangle shield shape. That was the Derham badge in use just about from the teens up until 1941. Leather roofs - yes I recall the installation on the 1931 Franklin victoria very well, the upholsterer had a devil of a time trying to get hides large enough to do the job without a lot of seams being placed where they weren't originally.

If you get a leather roof soaking wet with rain for an extended period of time ( like a 4 plus hour session driving from long island to the center of NY State for a Franklin Club meet) the leather roof swells, stretches and gets a lot of sags. First time I saw that I almost passed out! But the sags go away once it drys out. Like some of the people who read this and contribute we have had decades of just about every kind of experience with the pre war cars and some are very unique just to custom built ones. I never owned or restored a car that I then didn't drive for tens of thousands of miles after it was done- every mile I drove it made me think 'this is what all the $, time and effort spent was all about' - going down the road in a car with running boards and headlamps mounted on a bar between the front fenders.

Walt

[58L-Y8]

Padded formal tops in landau leather or Hartz cloth fitted to luxury sedans largely became Derham's stock and trade in the postwar years.  The CCCA Museum Archives have digitized the remaining Derham files they have in their collection.  Although Derham was still capable of more extensive modifications, they became rarer as the decade wore on.

 

Walt: That 1937 Chrysler Derham town car appears to be based on a lwb 1938 DeSoto.  Talk about democratizing the formal town car!  One can only imaging the owner's consternation when being chauffeured in Fifth Avenue traffic and noticing 1938 DeSoto Skyview taxis that were the same make and model as his  luxury car, how declasse'!

[twin6]

A few accessories visible on this '28 Packard six (5-33) sedan.

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, Walt G said:

Bill, Yes indeed. This Cadillac has the Derham script badge emblem that was starting to be used by them in about 1941. If you look on the photo of the 1937 town car I posted just in front of the lower front door bottom hinge you will see a small triangle shield shape. That was the Derham badge in use just about from the teens up until 1941. Leather roofs - yes I recall the installation on the 1931 Franklin victoria very well, the upholsterer had a devil of a time trying to get hides large enough to do the job without a lot of seams being placed where they weren't originally.

If you get a leather roof soaking wet with rain for an extended period of time ( like a 4 plus hour session driving from long island to the center of NY State for a Franklin Club meet) the leather roof swells, stretches and gets a lot of sags. First time I saw that I almost passed out! But the sags go away once it drys out. Like some of the people who read this and contribute we have had decades of just about every kind of experience with the pre war cars and some are very unique just to custom built ones. I never owned or restored a car that I then didn't drive for tens of thousands of miles after it was done- every mile I drove it made me think 'this is what all the $, time and effort spent was all about' - going down the road in a car with running boards and headlamps mounted on a bar between the front fenders.

Walt

Do you have any further information on this 'post-delivery' or 'after-sale' rebody by Derham on this 1940 Studebaker Champion:  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1887799-1941-red-studebaker-convertible    ?

 

Craig

 

 

[alsancle]

13 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Do you have any further information on this 'post-delivery' or 'after-sale' rebody by Derham on this 1940 Studebaker Champion:  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1887799-1941-red-studebaker-convertible    ?

 

Craig

 

 

 

 

I thought much Derham documentation survived?   I would be highly skeptical of that Studebaker minus some strong provenance.

 

[edinmass]

Try these........

[34LaSalleClubSedan]

15 hours ago, edinmass said:

Try these........

The great golfer from the 20's & 30's. Gene Sarazen.

PMCC at the proving grounds testing who is faster.  The Twin Six- V12 Packard, or a golf ball hit by Mr. Sarazen. Its the Macauley Speedster.

Thanks Ed, I have never seen such a great pic of the dash before.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by 34LaSalleClubSedan (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

4 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Do you have any further information on this 'post-delivery' or 'after-sale' rebody by Derham on this 1940 Studebaker Champion:  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1887799-1941-red-studebaker-convertible    ?

 

Craig

 

 

That 1940 Studebaker Champion Phaeton by Derham was an individual commission by Frank Tracy Griswold II, millionaire, race car builder and driver:

1940 Studebaker Champion (conceptcarz.com)

Its been written up in the SDC Turning Wheels and Antique Studebaker Review publications.

I

Edited April 7, 2021 by 58L-Y8
Publication write-ups noted (see edit history)

[8E45E]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

 

I thought much Derham documentation survived?   I would be highly skeptical of that Studebaker minus some strong provenance.

 

I also believe their records survive.  That is why I am hoping someone here has access to Derham documentation, and would be able to post copies of the work order for the car above, and the two 1940 President convertibles made for the New York World's Fair, in addition to what we already know about these cars.

 

Craig

Edited April 7, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Craig:

Here's the link to the CCCA Museum Archive viewer of the Derham files they have:

CCCA Museum Archive Viewer

You'll find not only the period photo but a group of correspondence between Mr. Griswold and Derham.  It is body #2388, cost $2,500 in addition to the 1940 Champion sedan basis. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by 58L-Y8 (see edit history)

[8E45E]

6 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Craig:

Here's the link to the CCCA Museum Archive viewer of the Derham files they have:

CCCA Museum Archive Viewer

 

Thanks!  I knew they survived, but was unaware they are able to be viewed online.

 

Now you know with I'll be doing for the next couple of evenings after work!!

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

You are welcome!  Although their Derham files are incomplete as documentation was somewhat dispersed through carelessness, its still unusually good with much interesting material. 

[alsancle]

Thanks.  This is why you can't paint your car Rosso Barrett (Red in honor of Tom Barrett) because guys like me immediately wonder.

[alsancle]

Renault.

The AACA should have a Gokart/Peddle Car class.  If they did  I would win with this.

[alsancle]

This picture is from the 1950s.  If this car made it to the 70s and was restored it would be a bright embarrassment today.

[alsancle]

This one has the stork to give it away easily.  You don't see Chauffeur driven 2 passenger cars to often.

[bryankazmer]

any idea of the coachbuilder on the Hisso?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hi

[alsancle]

6 minutes ago, bryankazmer said:

any idea of the coachbuilder on the Hisso?

 

Sorry.  Nope.

[alsancle]

Sunbeam.

[alsancle]

A proud owner and his V16 taken in the early 1950s.

[alsancle]

[twin6]

[Walt G]

19 hours ago, alsancle said:

This one has the stork to give it away easily.  You don't see Chauffeur driven 2 passenger cars to often.

I am guessing , but although I do not know the coach builder for the Hispano uUiza, I think the location for the photograph as well as for the one for the Sunbeam race car is at the Brooklands auto race track in Weybridge, Surrey, England. . I have been to that rack several times for the Brooklands Society annual reunions and the banked poured concrete track surface in the back ground is what is telling me where it is as well as the pedestrian bridges built over the raceway.

[nzcarnerd]

4 hours ago, Walt G said:

I am guessing , but although I do not know the coach builder for the Hispano uUiza, I think the location for the photograph as well as for the one for the Sunbeam race car is at the Brooklands auto race track in Weybridge, Surrey, England. . I have been to that rack several times for the Brooklands Society annual reunions and the banked poured concrete track surface in the back ground is what is telling me where it is as well as the pedestrian bridges built over the raceway.

 

I am not so sure about that photo of the Hisso being at Brooklands.

 

From looking at the circuit in an aerial photo there don't seem to be any more footbridges other than the well known one. I don't know that for certain though.

 

 

The structure of the bridge in the bridge in the Hisso photo is different. 

 

I was there on a wet day in February 2014 and took this one.

 

 

Notice the ends of the bridge sides are 'angled'. whereas in the Hisso photo they are straight up.

 

Another shot from back in the day.

 

[dibarlaw]

8 hours ago, twin6 said:

Great photo of a 1910 Model 2 Buick truck delivering a new 1911 Model 14 Buick.

[hook]

13 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

 

I am not so sure about that photo of the Hisso being at Brooklands.

 

From looking at the circuit in an aerial photo there don't seem to be any more footbridges other than the well known one. I don't know that for certain though.

 

 

The structure of the bridge in the bridge in the Hisso photo is different. 

 

I was there on a wet day in February 2014 and took this one.

 

 

Notice the ends of the bridge sides are 'angled'. whereas in the Hisso photo they are straight up.

 

Another shot from back in the day.

 

 

[Captain Harley]

On 4/4/2021 at 2:11 PM, 58L-Y8 said:

Chrome-plated side-mount covers AND Fenders too!!!

Don't forget fender lights and cowl lights too.  Plus, it looks like the sun visor over the windshield is chrome plated!  And purists complain about people today over chrome plating their antique cars.

 

Capt. Harley😉

[hook]

From what I see on the diagram of the track, there are several bridges. Also, if you look at the construction photo you will see men on the bridge showing that it's more than just a foot bridge. The square end foot bridge must be somewhere else on the track. Maybe in the paddock area. Please forgive my previous post with quote, I hit the button before I added my comment.

 

Bill

Edited April 9, 2021 by hook
left out (see edit history)

[Captain Harley]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:38 PM, John_Mereness said:

A '29 Packard 640 roadster with a running board spotlight.  Instead of the stock factory supplied CM Hall spotlight mounted on the left windshield stanchion bracket.

There is something about running board spotlights that just get to me!🤩  I've got two of them:  one in my bedroom and one in the living room.🤪  The car and the light are just pure class!

[Matt Harwood]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:40 PM, John_Mereness said:

 

I like photos like this. Someone had a ridiculous idea and they did it, but by virtue of wearing suits, ties, and hats all the time, they still look like very serious people. This is completely silly but with those two guys there, I would totally believe they're doing something important and not foolish.

 

Dress for success indeed.

[Walt G]

The roadster is a 1929 series 645 and has a Rollston body, not the factory catalog coachwork.  History of the Rollston/Rollson Company is in issue #1 of the new Crankshaft magazine and shows this car as well as many other cars that have the bodies built by that company that was located on the west side of New York City . It's final location was at 601 West 47th Street, the same building today is home to Toyota of Manhattan. Rudy Creteur who was the head of Rollston was a great guy, excellent memory of what he built and for who in the pre war era. He and Austin Clark and I used to go out to lunch on a regular basis - oh the stories that Rudy could tell about some of the customers !  Priceless.

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I like photos like this. Someone had a ridiculous idea and they did it, but by virtue of wearing suits, ties, and hats all the time, they still look like very serious people. This is completely silly but with those two guys there, I would totally believe they're doing something important and not foolish.

 

Dress for success indeed.

I believe that was considered 'proper' attire at the time, even during some recreational activities.  In school, there was a dress code in place, and when one looks at period street photos from the era, almost everyone is dressed up by today's standards.

 

Craig

[md murray]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

I believe that was considered 'proper' attire at the time, even during some recreational activities.

I'm always fascinated by the old photos of the early club meets in the 1940's and 50's. Young men wearing a tie and jacket on a weekend for a vintage car club outing seems other worldly but it was only a generation ago.