Are cars from the 30's and 40's not selling?

[theconvertibleguy]

Or is it just small sample size on my part?

 

The reason why I ask is over the last six months I've seen the following come on the market, and almost all within my province. All convertibles for completeness

1941 Ford SD - 36k
1931 Ford Model A - 27k
1940 Ford Deluxe - 24k (needs minor work)
1939 Ford Deluxe - 50k
1949 Chrysler New Yorker - 27k
1949 Ford Custom - 45k
1951 Ford Monarch - 35k
1950 Mercury Meteor - 38k
1939 Dodge - 62k

A lot of these have been for sale for months, and almost all are at least Level 2 condition wise. Almost no price movement, and from the ones I've chatted with they won't budge. And yet they never sell. Meanwhile Stuff from the late 50's and 60's disappear almost immediately unless it's a resto or a "tribute" car. What am I missing here?

Also were Fords that popular back in the day, or does my neck of the woods just seem to have a ton of them? It's next to impossible to find ones from this era that aren't Ford or their ilk (Mercury, Lincoln)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I think early V8 Fords , As and Ts started cooling a while back.  But have a following now and will for some time.  The flexibility of these cars vs. Non Classic, non Fords makes a bit of difference.  But a good supply will soften prices for sure.

 

A decent A roadster is desirable for example stone stock or in modified form which can go from touring set up to traditional hot rod.  A lot of A folk appreciate all of these variants and like the parts accessibility. 

 

I also think Jr. Packards have appeal due to both being related to their Sr. Cousins and pretty wide support.

 

A 110 or 120 is around the same $ as some prewar open early V8 Ford choices.  We considered a couple Fords when we bought our car.  I think a market will be around for these cars for a while but the $100k 36 Ford roadster is no more really.

 

Buy what you like and not based on trends and your probably going to be happier in the hobby. 😊

[3macboys]

I wonder if part of it is a manual vs automatic transmission thing?

[1912Staver]

Manual trans cars from the 1960's are always hot sellers.

[TerryB]

Just a case of what you grew up with or always wanted.  Certain models and years of cars will always have a following but the “others” struggle to find buyers.  One thing for sure is finding parts and people willing to work on the prewar cars limit their desirability for those new to the hobby.  

[theconvertibleguy]

7 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Just a case of what you grew up with or always wanted.  Certain models and years of cars will always have a following but the “others” struggle to find buyers.  One thing for sure is finding parts and people willing to work on the prewar cars limit their desirability for those new to the hobby.  

Good point. I expected the 4drs and friends would be a hard sell, but even convertibles sit forever. Maybe it's a manual thing where most from then are "on the tree", which isn't something very common now.

[alsancle]

1.  Cars across all eras have slowed down in the last year.

 

2. 90% of the cars for sale are junk or overpriced or both.

 

3.  Good cars in appropriate colors at appropriate prices still find homes.

 

See the project thread.   Cars that need work are not desirable.  Most cars we see for sale need work.

Edited December 8, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Buick35]

I think Hollywood in the 70s helped get people interested with such movies as China Town,The Sting,Bonnie and Clyde and others

[Gunsmoke]

I assume prices are in Canadian dollars (reduce by 30%to translate to US$). In my humble opinion, the asking prices are at or above high end of market, and a $10K reduction in most of the prices would move these cars. Often what happens is owners get over their heads financially restoring cars like these and don't want to lose money, so hold on looking for that "one buyer". And we all know the newer generations (any one under 50) have little interest in pre 50's cars, prefer muscle cars and stuff more reliable. So like everything else in the consumer world, supply and demand.

[mobileparts]

It is assuredly an age group thing, first and foremost...

 

From the people who have the money to get into the hobby, there is definitively a lot more action for cars in the 1950s and 1960s.

And.... newer .... 1970s & 1980s and newer....

( I cringe when I hear a younger lad saying , " I am going to restore my 1985 Ford Truck..." but that phrase is not alone... )

 

These are, for sure, the Era of the people buying cars, presently... Remember, most of the people wanting a 1930... this or a 

1940...that is older than 70 years of age, for the most part....

 

And, most 70 + year olds, are already set with the vehicles they already own, and are also not used to hearing $ 25,000 for something that they believe ( or already bought years ago...) is a $ 10,000 car....

 

Of Course, there are many of us who would still add something to our collection or fleet, just because it is there... but it has to really 

" grab our attention " to join the family....

 

I said 15 years ago, that if you had an " A " or a " T " , that you had better sell it now, ( if you plan on selling it ) because nobody alive today is going to want one, for the most part... No young whippersnapper wants a car with a maximum speed of 32 miles per hour....

And that sure is indeed true today.....

 

Unfortunately,  as time keeps winding, that will be true.... Even the newest of the 1930s and 1940s cars, a 1949 --- will be 

75 years of age , as 2024 is only 24 + days away......

[Willy]

I don’t care what sells, or what doesn’t, I started my 1918 DB Touring,  and I plan to finish it. Same goes for my 1928 Whippet. To me, it’s not about money, it’s about my legacy - and I feel a responsibility to leave it restored after I’m gone. Old cars have a beauty that all who look at it admire - not so, with new cars.

[JV Puleo]

1 hour ago, mobileparts said:

... Remember, most of the people wanting a 1930... this or a 

1940...that is older than 70 years of age, for the most part....

Really? Those "70 year olds" (like me) were born in the 1950s and have no more personal involvement with the 30s and 40s than they do with brass cars. The problem is price...they would all sell if the prices reflected the market but car collectors seem to be oblivious to the fact that prices have fallen...that, effectively, we've priced ourselves out of the market. It will take time for reality to set in but it eventually will. If those cars appeal to an older age group it probably has more to do with how much time and disposable income they have. I suspect there would be a lot more people in their 30s and 40s in the market if the prices reflected the current reality.

 

I was helping my cousin clean up his parents property last summer. Geoff is a long-time Model A enthusiast and had piles of parts. One of the neighbors came by to look at a tractor we were selling and his son, probably in his 20s, asked Geoff if he knew anything about Model A's...because he'd just bought one. I've no idea what he paid and this is a wealthy neighborhood but there is no question that "20-something" was interested enough to actually buy one.

Edited December 8, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

Call me a curmudgeon, but i think a contributing factor is that young people today are less comfortable doing mechanical things than generations in the past.  Old cars will need someone who at least has the curiosity and interest in "tinkering" with an old car to even consider buying one.  I think that is rare in today's youth.  I think of generations past, when thy type of guy who became an Engineer, was someone with a curiosity into how things work and they frequently dabbled with taking things apart or building things........They could easily apply their passion and skill into an old car.  It is not uncommon today to see a young person who might study Engineering who can't "change the oil in a car", change a battery", "jump a car', Build a wooden birdhouse/doghouse, start a lawnmower and mow the lawn, etc.........  They are smart and have a high ACT score, and are wizards on their phone,  but aren't as curious with mechanical things as past generations.  If you don't have any idea how to work on a car nor do you have any interest.......and have driven a reliable Honda/Toyota/etc....your whole life.  The leap to buying and maintaining a Ford Model T is like some crazy idea to swim the Atlantic.  

 

Of course I realize that not all young people are as I described, but I bet in 1970 90% of the boys in high school could push start a manual car, Now 1% can.........the implications of that loss of basic "car troubleshooting skills" plays out in the hobby.  Most old cars are projects, young buyers can't do the work themselves and they can't afford or find anyone to do it for them.  

 

There's a reckoning coming.  HIGH end cars will still have deep pocket collectors buying them, but the run of the mill stuff probably has 10 old guys selling a car for 2 younger guys who are interested and the ratio is getting worse.  

 

A 50'd sedan with poor paint, that ran 3 years ago, in a model that is unremarkable and had high production numbers............if you are a seller of these, take any offer you get, the math going forward is against you.  

[CarNucopia]

23 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

Call me a curmudgeon, but i think a contributing factor is that young people today are less comfortable doing mechanical things than generations in the past. 

I’ve got to disagree with you on this. I’ve been a Miata owner for 30+ years and have a few JDM cars. As such, I spend a lot of time talking to enthusiasts under age 30. Honestly, I'm astounded at the level of complexity in their projects. That age group loves to modify their cars and do things like engine swaps. The other thing that boggles my mind is the amount of money they spend on their “builds”.
 

It’s not a lack of money or skill that keeps them out of the old stuff, it’s a lack of interest. I’d wager there are more car enthusiasts under the age of 30 than ever before. 

[theconvertibleguy]

2 hours ago, Gunsmoke said:

I assume prices are in Canadian dollars (reduce by 30%to translate to US$). In my humble opinion, the asking prices are at or above high end of market, and a $10K reduction in most of the prices would move these cars. Often what happens is owners get over their heads financially restoring cars like these and don't want to lose money, so hold on looking for that "one buyer". And we all know the newer generations (any one under 50) have little interest in pre 50's cars, prefer muscle cars and stuff more reliable. So like everything else in the consumer world, supply and demand.

I know my friend group is a small sample size, but the only person I know that's intrested in classic cars is myself. The reason is that no-one that arne't close to retirement can afford one anymore. So that probably isn't helping matter, now and in the future.

[John Bloom]

29 minutes ago, CarNucopia said:

I’ve got to disagree with you on this. I’ve been a Miata owner for 30+ years and have a few JDM cars. As such, I spend a lot of time talking to enthusiasts under age 30. Honestly, I'm astounded at the level of complexity in their projects. That age group loves to modify their cars and do things like engine swaps. The other thing that boggles my mind is the amount of money they spend on their “builds”.
 

It’s not a lack of money or skill that keeps them out of the old stuff, it’s a lack of interest. I’d wager there are more car enthusiasts under the age of 30 than ever before. 

I don’t doubt a word you say and I find it encouraging, but the thread was asking about cars from the 30s and 40s....not Japanese cars in the last 30 years. Clearly there are young enthusiasts and I think that is great.  As for “more car enthusiasts under the age of 30 than ever before”........not for cars in the 30s and 40s which is the thread topic.

 

my hope is those young enthusiasts will have some changes in taste over the years and fall in love with the old stuff. I know my interests have changed from my 20s to my 50s. 
 

 

 

[3macboys]

One other thought is that every one of those cars definitely has a market, however, it is not necessarily in their backyard.  The prices might be reasonable in the big picture but they are trying to sell in the small picture.   I've come across a lot of younger people who have an interest in this era, but they do not limit themselves to the 2 doors and convertibles.  I just had this discussion with my father this morning and you have to remember the younger people grew up with 4 doors and minivans.  

[zepher]

In the past, I have hosted 'Install Meets' at my house for Nissan enthusiasts to come and hang out and install whatever mods they may have purchased but they don't have the know how, tools or space to do so.

There were always a few of us with hands on knowledge that assisted those that were still learning.

We did everything from tune ups to suspension work to turbo installs.

My garage was open to those that came and the meets usually lasted from about 10am to well after midnight.

I had over 30 cars crammed into the cul-de-sac at one meet.

 

Long story short, I always gave anyone that wanted, a ride in the '64 Malibu SS Convertible that I used to own.

I know I got at least a few of those youngsters interested in 60's cars after they took a ride and looked over the whole car inside and out.

 

The younger crowd can get hooked on older cars if they are exposed to them.

It's our job as current caretakers of antique cars to get the next generation interested.

 

[Hemi Joel]

It seems to me that a whole lot of sellers think that their #3 cars are #1s and their #4 cars are #2s and pick their expected prices accordingly. In a rising market, on highly desirable cars, that might work. But not when things soften.

[jp1gt]

I must have champagne taste on a beer budget. Still can not afford what I want!

[EmTee]

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, Hemi Joel said:

It seems to me that a whole lot of sellers think that their #3 cars are #1s and their #4 cars are #2s and pick their expected prices accordingly. In a rising market, on highly desirable cars, that might work. But not when things soften.

 

It is what I call the "drunk billionaire" business model.   The idea is that you pick a price that only a drunk billionaire would be willing to buy at. I have seen it happen at auctions but never ever with anything I'm ever selling.   When I'm selling all the buyers seem to be stone cold sober.

[Brass is Best]

Great cars are always in demand and selling. Cars with problems not so much.

[Walt G]

8 hours ago, zepher said:

 

The younger crowd can get hooked on older cars if they are exposed to them.

It's our job as current caretakers of antique cars to get the next generation interested.

I totally agree with this. Younger people are interested but you have to be the one to smile and welcome them and talk about the older cars and the way they were made. How many have seen a straight 8 engine? or even a straight 6? Most older ( or should I say mature age wise) want to converse with their old buddies and do not draw the younger generation in. "We" aren't friendly and view them as "kids" who know nothing. BIG TURN OFF.

Also I think the younger crowd does not have the patience to seek out missing or needed parts or places to have them rebuilt and the patience to wait for it to be rebuilt. It is a button touch , instant satisfaction/gratification  world. If it is in good shape and working well then all is fine, if not then you are discarded. This also applies to ones activity in car clubs!  HUH? YES, 6 years ago I had heart surgery , up until then I was fine, active - belonged to a well known national car club for 45+ years and contributed to their publications for 30+ years. I got elected to their national board and attended meetings all over the USA. Then the surgery stopped everything, no travel, wasn't even allowed to climb stairs for almost a year. The President of the club had the club manager send me a letter requesting that I resign from the national board instantly  because I couldn't be at meetings in person ( even though their was audio communication at board meetings) Total disrespect - yes, I did resign, and also from my membership of the club which was for "healthy " people. I have never looked back, the majority of that board never questioned that President's actions. So be it. MY point is Have Respect for people, new or older generation, have some patience as someone once did for you...........

[Roscoe]

53 minutes ago, jp1gt said:

I must have champagne taste on a beer budget. Still can not afford what I want!

Don't feel bad, my friend. I'm a "bottom feeder" in the hobby- buy old, rough beasts and try to make them a little less rough, and enjoy them immensely- but my heart's desire are two cars that it'll take a miracle for me to get- a '53-62 Corvette, or a late 30's Packard sedan- I don't care if it's Junior or Senior. But those prices aren't coming down to my level yet.🤣

[3makes]

42 minutes ago, Walt G said:

I totally agree with this. Younger people are interested but you have to be the one to smile and welcome them and talk about the older cars and the way they were made. How many have seen a straight 8 engine? or even a straight 6? Most older ( or should I say mature age wise) want to converse with their old buddies and do not draw the younger generation in. "We" aren't friendly and view them as "kids" who know nothing. BIG TURN OFF.

Also I think the younger crowd does not have the patience to seek out missing or needed parts or places to have them rebuilt and the patience to wait for it to be rebuilt. It is a button touch , instant satisfaction/gratification  world. If it is in good shape and working well then all is fine, if not then you are discarded. This also applies to ones activity in car clubs!  HUH? YES, 6 years ago I had heart surgery , up until then I was fine, active - belonged to a well known national car club for 45+ years and contributed to their publications for 30+ years. I got elected to their national board and attended meetings all over the USA. Then the surgery stopped everything, no travel, wasn't even allowed to climb stairs for almost a year. The President of the club had the club manager send me a letter requesting that I resign from the national board instantly  because I couldn't be at meetings in person ( even though their was audio communication at board meetings) Total disrespect - yes, I did resign, and also from my membership of the club which was for "healthy " people. I have never looked back, the majority of that board never questioned that President's actions. So be it. MY point is Have Respect for people, new or older generation, have some patience as someone once did for you...........

If I were you, I would have named the club and the individual that asked for your resignation. That person doesn't deserve the respect of the title they held or hold. 

[theconvertibleguy]

53 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

Don't feel bad, my friend. I'm a "bottom feeder" in the hobby- buy old, rough beasts and try to make them a little less rough, and enjoy them immensely- but my heart's desire are two cars that it'll take a miracle for me to get- a '53-62 Corvette, or a late 30's Packard sedan- I don't care if it's Junior or Senior. But those prices aren't coming down to my level yet.🤣

I have the same problem. Always wanted a C1/C2 vette convertible, but the prices are beyond me. Probably for the best as I can't fit in one anyways

[West Peterson]

I think what you're really asking is, has the market value fallen on these cars? And the answer is yes, for the most part. Which is a good thing for those wanting to get into that segment of the hobby. Not so good if you were hoping to retire on the proceeds after selling one.

[rocketraider]

12 hours ago, Hemi Joel said:

It seems to me that a whole lot of sellers think that their #3 cars are #1s and their #4 cars are #2s and pick their expected prices accordingly. In a rising market, on highly desirable cars, that might work. But not when things soften.

The big televised auctions cause a lot of that.

 

alsancle's "drunk billionaire" analogy is spot on, because the complimentary drinks and unrelenting auction hype are designed to separate the drunk billionaires from their money. Then the auction house gets the side benefit of "we set a record price!!" which then convinces every yahoo with a rusty non-running hulk sinking into the backyard his pos is worth that much too.

 

"Car guy" TV shows are guilty too, especially when it's painfully obvious the hosts don't know diddly about the car they're presenting. It's all one big infomercial anyway.

 

And when interacting with people at cars and coffee or cruise nights, you can tell within a couple minutes who's been watching the auctions and TV shows!😛

[60FlatTop]

Forty years ago I looked forward to my monthly Hemmings Motor News. The ads from Art Burrichter, The Goldenrod Garage, Roaring Twenties Auto, and a few others had the same stuff at a time adjusted price. Nothing has changed but the date.

 

I never had an interest in athletic sports when I was a kid. The lifelong sport of buying and selling and stuff with old cars has given me all the fun the horse traders thought they lost when cars took over.

 

The comments about kids always entertains me. Being a Buick owner I have always been the young one in the bunch. The 85 year olds think I am a dumb kid at 75. The fun is going on the new fangled computer to see if they are paraphrasing Plato or Socrates. Neither one of them had munch use for the following generations either.

[Avanti Bill]

Car prices ebb and flow as market and economic conditions change.  We are in an ebb right now possibly because all the sudden money in the bank can make a safe 5 or 6% and the future is a little uncertain.  One thing is for sure though really nice cars always bring the money even when the market is soft.  The problem is that really nice cars represent probably less than 10% that are for sale.  Condition and desirability drive the upper end of the market but even a car that is not very desirable will bring more if it is flawless.  The bottom line is if you want more for your car improver it. 

[West Peterson]

There was a "classic" car dealer in the 1970s-80s who drove up the prices of Cobras, Shelbys, and Duesenbergs, among others. If he advertised a car priced such that it wasn't getting any "action", he'd raise the price the following month, and keep raising it until it sold. Funny thing, at that time it worked for him. I remember something he said: "You don't make money when selling cars, you make money when you buy them." In other words, if you don't buy them right in the first place, you're not going to come out ahead. I also remember that his gas tanks were ALWAYS practically empty. I couldn't understand someone selling Duesenbergs, Cobras and whatnot, and penny-pinching on the gas.

 

He ended up in prison for establishing a Ponzi scheme of some sort.

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, West Peterson said:

There was a "classic" car dealer in the 1970s-80s who drove up the prices of Cobras, Shelbys, and Duesenbergs, among others. If he advertised a car priced such that it wasn't getting any "action", he'd raise the price the following month, and keep raising it until it sold. Funny thing, at that time it worked for him. I remember something he said: "You don't make money when selling cars, you make money when you buy them." In other words, if you don't buy them right in the first place, you're not going to come out ahead. I also remember that his gas tanks were ALWAYS practically empty. I couldn't understand someone selling Duesenbergs, Cobras and whatnot, and penny-pinching on the gas.

 

He ended up in prison for establishing a Ponzi scheme of some sort.

 

Every gas tank in every car on every car lot in the Country is a whisker above empty.

[60FlatTop]

The general prices of cars are so high that if I price a car fairly the buyer grabs it up because he thinks he is stealing it from me. Then they come back whining when they find out it really was priced fairly. Even with a full disclosure of the condition.

 

I may feel a little sorry for them because of their greed but, happily, I have no empathy.

 

"Don't take this personally. It was those whom came before that set the ground rules."

[3macboys]

12 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Every gas tank in every car on every car lot in the Country is a whisker above empty.

That's because if it wasn't at 6pm it would be by 6 am - remember when dealers used to advertise that you'd get a free tank of gas when you purchased a car - now you leave the lot and are searching for the nearest gas station.

[Buffalowed Bill]

IMHO within the pre-war and early post-war cars that you are asking about the market is dependent on the Baby Boomers for it's health, as we have known it to over the last five decades. We are old and getting older. We are no longer colleting or restoring like we used to. To this point the market for the project car and it's addended parts car is all but dead. The high water mark for the BB's involvement is at least ten years in the rearview mirror. 

 

I'm a long time car collector who doesn't buy or sell often. Let me preface by saying that I really don't care what my cars are worth since selling is not my goal. My eclectic collection developed over 60 years, so I have been able to see what the values have done over decades. With very few exceptions my pre-war and early post-war cars are worth less then what I paid for them, or at least when they at their peak value. For the guy who sot to make a killing on the car that he bought decades ago-sorry Charlie!

 

For the car dealer or the flipper the profit is in the quick, short term movement within the market. The most successful dealers seem to be able to survive because of volume selling and their good reputation. For the dealer, volume sales help mitigate the losses on a single sale. 

 

It's a great time to be a younger enthusiast. It reminds me of the late 50's and 60's before the term classic car became a watchword for just another valuable commodity. A guy can now buy that car because you like it, not because of what you think that it will be worth in ten years. 

[Trulyvintage]

The OP is casting a broad net.

 

The biggest demographic change 

to occur in the last 3 to 4 years

are the moving trends of the 

middle class working folks from

urban areas to rural areas where

they normally would relocate in

their retirement years.

 

I have brought this up before.

 

These folks are now working 

remotely from home thanks 

to Covid and are buying vehicles

at a younger age.

 

Most do not belong to any of

the established conventional

car clubs or groups.

 

They have local communities 

based on shared interests …

one of which is cars.

 

 

Jim

[1935Packard]

Rather than think about the declining value of the cars I have, i’ll think about the declining price of the cars I want to buy.  
 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Deadpurpledog]

I’ve this to be a very difficult hobby for non mechanics and the very knowledgeable. . . .true for most investments.  Many sellers misrepresent knowingly or unknowingly, making purchasing really difficult.  Inspection companies are helpful to a point. . .yet, miss a lot.  Once you buy a vehicle, finding qualified honest mechanics can be challenging, as is sourcing parts.  Is it possible, that the combination of rising prices, concern for the air, Uber and difficulties mentioned earlier are weighing down value?

[EmTee]

Population demographics is the elephant in the room.  The 'boomers' are aging and represent the largest living generation and birth rates have been declining.  The market continuously attempts to reconcile supply and demand.