Antique classification

[Buick35]

I don't think cars only thirty years old should be classified as antique. I think at least fifty. And why isn't there an ancient class? What's your thoughts? And one day I woke up and noticed every one was younger than me,even my doctor!

Edited October 18, 2022 by Buick35
Spell check (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

By many definitions, antique cars are those

at least 25 years old.

 

All of our varied opinions are man-made,

subjective, and in the scheme of things are

not all that important.  My thought:  Just enjoy

the cars of whatever age.  We're in the hobby

to preserve them. 

[1937hd45]

I just don't relate to the "New Antiques" that were built in my lifetime. 

 

Bob

[Peter Gariepy]

23 minutes ago, Buick35 said:

I don't think cars only thirty years old should be classified as antique. I think at least fifty. And why isn't there an ancient class? What's your thoughts?

The AACA and VMCCA defines an antique as 25 years and older. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

CCCA has more strict guidelines going up to 1948.

HCCA is 1915 and older.

Marque clubs are a bit more all inclusive.  Example VCCA supports ANY Chevrolet or GMC regardless of age.

 

This topic has been debated to death in the past in this forum.  Not sure another debate has any value. Let people enjoy their cars... whatever they may be. As for this forum, it supports the club's mandate of original cars 25 years and older.

 

[CChinn]

I’m not bothered by the 25 year or older definition and agree with Peter’s and John’s thoughts on the matter. That’s why I equally enjoy my 1940 and 1987 cars. They’re both fun to take care of and drive and I get to enjoy a different driving experience with these cars that are 47 years apart!

Edited October 18, 2022 by CChinn (see edit history)

[JACK M]

I suspect that when 25 years was assigned it was the same time that 100,000 miles was worn out.

In my mind it would be very difficult to change from 25 years because it's been the rule for so long. What, close to a hundred years?

Most state DMVs use that 25-year-old rule.

[wayne sheldon]

AACA and VMCCA started out with slightly different age or year classifications. Both had some sort of slowly advancing system. In the 1960s, their status was old enough that a lot of people wanted to include newer stuff. Several states had some kind of historic or collector status, some did not. A few years of debate happened, and several states and clubs settled on the 25 year rule during the 1970s.

Like the "R" and "P" words, this sort of thing will never be resolved in a way that everyone will be happy about it.

 

I like to see people enjoying whatever kinds of cars they happen to like! Whatever it is, whether I have any interest in it or not? I like that they like it. The only thing that really annoys me is when individuals are clueless about the difference between a personal vision and actual history. 

[Peter Gariepy]

If my memory serves me correctly the recently passed AACA Past President Earl Beauchamp started the Contemporary Historical Vehicle Association in 1967 to give owners of cars not recognized by other clubs an organization which would give their vehicles their much-deserved recognition. As I understand it, the AACA's recognition of all cars 25 years and older was in part a response to the pent up demand seen by the early popularity of the CHVA.

[intimeold]

This has been an age old question, in our hobby.  It is hard for some to think, 25 or 30 or whatever is old. To others that time frame, is a lifetime.

 

The AACA, along with State licensing agencies; have set a certain time frame; as to classify automobiles, motorcycles, trucks. etc. The States are not all thinking the same. Some have Antique, Historic, Classic, (Not to be confused with CCAA), and more terms to classify automobiles and such.  

 

So to make this short, somebody had to put a certain year/age number on classifications to have some organization. AACA is the forum we are on now; and 25 years old is the rule. Somewhere  else, go with the flow.

 

intimeold 

[Str8-8-Dave]

Many DMVs use 25yrs as the minimum vehicle age to assign historic vehicle plates.   In addition,  in Michigan,  you can have original Michigan plates for the model year of a vehicle that has attained the 25yr age to be assigned instead of the standard issue historic plate.  My 1931 Buick wears a nice set of 1931 Michigan plates legally registered to my car.   

[lump]

When I was a kid the AACA cutoff year was arbitrarily established at 1928 and older, as I recall. My parents had a '29 Model A roadster and had to park outside the show field at some events where this rule was enforced, such as at the Hamilton parade here in Southern Ohio (even though both my parents were official judges at the event). My dad's friends urged him to paint the steering wheel to look like the red rubber steering wheels of '28 Model A Fords, since this was the most noticeable difference to the average car enthusiast, but he refused. Said that wasn't honest, so we parked in general admission parking and walked into the show field. 

 

Personally, I think the 25-year-old rule is probably a good one. Keep in mind that choosing which cars are newer than those which appeal to a person are highly personal. Many of Dad's friends were horrified when a fellow club member displayed his 1955 T-bird among our antique cars at LeSourdsville Lake, near Hamilton, Ohio, yet that car is a mainstream collector vehicle today. I recall an older, well-respected gentleman cursing mad over, "...that G---D---ned used car in our show!"  Incidentally, that gentleman's car was from the brass era, yet he rarely ever drove it to any of our events because it wasn't really reliable for road trips.

 

I love antiques, vintage cars, muscle cars, etc. But I confess to having little interest in cars from the mid 70's and up. But after all, we are trying to get younger people interested in the old car hobby, right? So just like that guy with the '55 T-Bird, we need to welcome them all, and call them whatever their owners like. Let's not get names and classifications become differences between us, or possibly discourage any new hobbyists. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by lump (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

10 hours ago, Buick35 said:

I don't think cars only thirty years old should be classified as antique. I think at least fifty. And why isn't there an ancient class? What's your thoughts? And one day I woke up and noticed every one was younger than me,even my doctor!

Here's a thought - go start your own club and let us know how things work out.  

Terry

[wldavis]

It's like John_S says - it's all relative to when you were born as to what is an "antique".   I don't plan on starting my own antique car club, but I have

thought for many years that some sort of sliding scale (the more time that goes by, the more years old your car would need to be, to be an "antique").

Of course, a lot of old car owners would not like this.  So, since I was born just after WWII, nothing is "old" to me unless it is pre-WWII.

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

Many DMVs use 25yrs as the minimum vehicle age to assign historic vehicle plates.   In addition,  in Michigan,  you can have original Michigan plates for the model year of a vehicle that has attained the 25yr age to be assigned instead of the standard issue historic plate.  My 1931 Buick wears a nice set of 1931 Michigan plates legally registered to my car.   

As I mentioned in an earlier thread on the subject, Wyoming is trying to change theirs from 25 years to older:  

Craig

[trimacar]

As stated the 25 year rule is not going to change, and it's great for the AACA as it gets more cars and younger people involved.

 

My biggest pet peeve about the 25 year rule is not with the club, but with the States.

 

In Virginia, a vehicle with an antique plate does not have to be inspected, nor is there personal property tax on the vehicle.  In addition, the plate is permanent, no yearly fee.

 

So, when I see what is obviously a work truck with antique plates, or an obvious daily driver with antique plates, it's upsetting to me.  We now have a vehicle which is being used daily, is in unknown mechanical condition thus could be dangerous on the road to others, and pays no taxes. In addition, after the initial registration, there's no proof of insurance required. 

 

 

[8E45E]

8 minutes ago, trimacar said:

So, when I see what is obviously a work truck with antique plates, or an obvious daily driver with antique plates, it's upsetting to me.  We now have a vehicle which is being used daily, is in unknown mechanical condition thus could be dangerous on the road to others, and pays no taxes. In addition, after the initial registration, there's no proof of insurance required. 

It would be VERY difficult to get away with that here, especially in winter, as no one in their right mind would drive a true collector car in the salt.  The police patrols weren't born yesterday, and would immediately stop someone abusing the privilege if they saw a collector car being driven in it.  Work trucks and buses being used commercially MUST have an inspection sticker in place, which would nullify an older dump truck for example, being run on 'antique' plates.   And if they did, there is no way they would be able to get past a weigh scale riding on antique plates if they tried!!

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

35 minutes ago, trimacar said:

As stated the 25 year rule is not going to change, and it's great for the AACA as it gets more cars and younger people involved.

 

My biggest pet peeve about the 25 year rule is not with the club, but with the States.

 

In Virginia, a vehicle with an antique plate does not have to be inspected, nor is there personal property tax on the vehicle.  In addition, the plate is permanent, no yearly fee.

 

So, when I see what is obviously a work truck with antique plates, or an obvious daily driver with antique plates, it's upsetting to me.  We now have a vehicle which is being used daily, is in unknown mechanical condition thus could be dangerous on the road to others, and pays no taxes. In addition, after the initial registration, there's no proof of insurance required. 

 

 

Maryland is mostly the same. Although the law states, and I am paraphrasing, that with a 'historic' tag the car can only be used for limited driving, weekends, holidays, shows etc. Also if you have historic tags on a pickup truck it is forbidden to put anything in the bed. It burns me up when I pull into Lowes and see a guy loading his work truck that has historic tags on it. 

 

There was an article in the local paper a couple of years ago about a car being pulled over in the wee hours of the morning. The occupants were arrested for numerous offenses. The reason they were pulled over was because the car had historic tags, although it was only a 20 yr old car (md requirement). There is fine print in the law that says something to the effect that a car with historic tags cannot have any passengers if operated on a state highway. I have not looked into that one, but it stretches a bit for me.

 

Lastly, after my recent trip and participation to the wonderful show at Hershey in my 1977 Pontiac, my observation. If 80s-90s cars were excluded I would estimate a 20% loss. IF 60s-70s and on were excluded I would think 50%+ loss.

[ted sweet]

i was born in 1963 and my interest is cars from 1966 up to my 2006 mustang

Edited October 19, 2022 by ted sweet (see edit history)

[46 woodie]

I think that the "25 Year Rule" need's to be looked at carefully. My issue isn't with certain car clubs using the 25 year rule, but with insurance companies, as others have pointed out. Some states use the rule as their standard for writing insurance policies. 25 years means any 1997 vehicle can obtain Historical license plates at a cost reduction and in some states bypass inspections. They can also get antique car insurance also at a cost reduction. To me a 1997 vehicle isn't an antique car, it's just an older car that is driven every day and the owner is skirting the law using Historical plates. A little off topic, but the National Street Rod Association also uses the 25 year rule. They offer free, 23 point inspections and if your car passes you get a decal stating that your car has passed. Some of the requirements, such as directionals, etc  weren't available in the 30's, 40's and 50's so those cars must comply to the standards. Well, I see cars that were built in the '70's, '80's and '90's that have all the 23 requirements that came from the factory with a Safety 23 Decal affixed to their windshield, how fair is that.

[kgreen]

I think the real take-away from the OP is that at an older age, one should have a doctor, dentist, attorney and accountant that is younger than ones self.  If you wonder about that, then you're young and that advice doesn't matter yet.  Other than that I see nothing else to discuss on the topic.

Edited October 20, 2022 by kgreen
spelling (see edit history)

[Mark Gregush]

I am surprised that HCCA has not updated their cutoff date to 100 years or older. Think of all the new members they could get!

[ted sweet]

in nys its rare  to see a daily driver older than 2000

[Bhigdog]

Trouble is a 1997 car meets the antique definition. That's entering the era where cars went from unique styling and engineering to cookie cutter appliances. No excitement there...........Bob

[Peter Gariepy]

8 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Trouble is a 1997 car meets the antique definition. That's entering the era where cars went from unique styling and engineering to cookie cutter appliances. No excitement there...........Bob

That same argument was used for cars in the 70s and 80s also.

Times change.

You may not be interested in that era, but others are.  Someone born in the 90s are now in their 30s and 1990s cars were what they drove in high school and they have fond memories of them.

 

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

1 hour ago, 46 woodie said:

I think that the "25 Year Rule" need's to be looked at carefully. My issue isn't with certain car clubs using the 25 year rule, but with insurance companies, as others have pointed out. Some states use the rule as their standard for writing insurance policies. 25 years means any 1997 vehicle can obtain Historical license plates at a cost reduction and in some states bypass inspections. They can also get antique car insurance also at a cost reduction. To me a 1997 vehicle isn't an antique car, it's just an older car that is driven every day and the owner is skirting the law using Historical plates. A little off topic, but the National Street Rod Association also uses the 25 year rule. They offer free, 23 point inspections and if your car passes you get a decal stating that your car has passed. Some of the requirements, such as directionals, etc  weren't available in the 30's, 40's and 50's so those cars must comply to the standards. Well, I see cars that were built in the '70's, '80's and '90's that have all the 23 requirements that came from the factory with a Safety 23 Decal affixed to their windshield, how fair is that.

Maybe from a local government perspective reviewing the 25 year rule is worth considering.

Antique Auto Insurance companies aren't going to reduce the number of potential clients by changing the vehicle requirement age.  "Capitalism"

AACA and other clubs aren't going to change that 25 year rule unless there is a compelling reason. I see none.

[F&J]

Some people possibly try to spread their hate for 70s and newer cars because those are the vast majority of what shows up at the local shows and cruises.  These people also spread their hate at any prewar rods that do show up.  Wake up, the prewar "stock" hobby has been dying out at local venues and it won't get better as things always change.  

 

These people seem to believe that if a show excludes all the 70s and newer cars, then the shows will "magically" be attended by hundreds of early cars.   What makes our prewar hobby participation even lower at local shows is the people who won't take their prewar car because they don't want to be around late models and rods.  

 

me, I prefer looking at stock early 30s but those days are gone, they were at their peak back in the 60s and 70s at local shows here.  

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, F&J said:

Some people possibly try to spread their hate for 70s and newer cars because those are the vast majority of what shows up at the local shows and cruises.  These people also spread their hate at any prewar rods that do show up.  Wake up, the prewar "stock" hobby has been dying out at local venues and it won't get better as things always change.  

 

These people seem to believe that if a show excludes all the 70s and newer cars, then the shows will "magically" be attended by hundreds of early cars.   What makes our prewar hobby participation even lower at local shows is the people who won't take their prewar car because they don't want to be around late models and rods.  

 

me, I prefer looking at stock early 30s but those days are gone, they were at their peak back in the 60s and 70s at local shows here.  

This discussion reminds me the state the Rock & Roll music industry is in today.  There is no such thing as 'Top 40' radio anymore when it comes to Rock & Roll.  Like cars old & new/'instant collectible', what is considered 'rock & roll' music has gone several different directions; Hard Rock and Metal (which is often classed 'Alternative'), 'Adult Contemporary', and Kiddie Pop, just to name a few.  Now there are can be at least 5 different radio stations that play different types of rock which cater to different ages or groups of people without being in direct competition with each other, vs. in the 1970's there was only 'Top 40' on AM, and Progressive Rock on FM.    

 

How many here had parents who hated what their kids listen to, and in turn, how many disliked their dad's choice of music??  Same applies to cars, I find, where the kids have zero interest in their dad's vintage car, and sell it off, but their own kids love Tuner cars.

 

Craig

Edited October 19, 2022 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

Trouble is a 1997 car meets the antique definition. That's entering the era where cars went from unique styling and engineering to cookie cutter appliances. No excitement there...........Bob

That same statement can be used when describing cars from the late 20's through the early 30's. 

 

No offense meant to anyone that has a car that fits into this category, especially since I would love to have one in my garage!

[Peter Gariepy]

1 hour ago, F&J said:

Some people possibly try to spread their hate for 70s and newer cars because those are the vast majority of what shows up at the local shows and cruises.  These people also spread their hate at any prewar rods that do show up.  Wake up, the prewar "stock" hobby has been dying out at local venues and it won't get better as things always change.  

 

These people seem to believe that if a show excludes all the 70s and newer cars, then the shows will "magically" be attended by hundreds of early cars.   What makes our prewar hobby participation even lower at local shows is the people who won't take their prewar car because they don't want to be around late models and rods.  

 

me, I prefer looking at stock early 30s but those days are gone, they were at their peak back in the 60s and 70s at local shows here.  

This may be anecdotal but the local car shows here in Tucson have have a good cross section of cars.  Shows include: Cars and Coffee, Little Anthonys Diner and the Tucson Classics Car Show. Yes, they are dominated by the later cars, but there are plenty of older restored antiques as well.  In the case of the Tucson Classics Car Show on Oct 14th, 2022: AACA Tucson Region member Tom Mulligan's 1940 Hupmobile Skylark was Best of Show, and the Sponsor's Choice award went to a 1927 Pierce-Arrow Model 80 Roadster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

That same argument was used for cars in the 70s and 80s also.

Times change.

You may not be interested in that era, but others are.  Someone born in the 90s are now in their 30s and 1990s cars were what they drove in high school and they have fond memories of them.

 

 

 

 I'm just sayin. Not expressing any desire for change one way or another. And yes, times do change. I've noticed that over my 82 years..................Bob

Edited October 19, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

38 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

That same statement can be used when describing cars from the late 20's through the early 30's. 

 

No offense meant to anyone that has a car that fits into this category, especially since I would love to have one in my garage!

 Not expressing any car's desirability or not. That said, today's cars are little more than look alike commodities. Kind of hard to get exited about a line of cars at a show when they all look similar other than the grill, don't have any trim, and are one of five colors three of which are a shade of gray and with either a black or grey interior..........Just sayin.........Bob

[Roscoe]

Arkansas had issues with folks doing the "antique " tag on old dailies. We are a southern state with no use of salt and it's not uncommon to see late '70s and '80s vehicles used regularly, and even the occasional 1960's models. We also do not have a yearly inspection law. As a result, there were alot of old chevy work trucks, "donks" and the like running around with those tags. As a police officer, I would check them out as I could, but the law was written pretty open ended with few actual restrictions.

In 2019, they modified the law a bit- now the vehicle has to be 45 years old to get antique tags. This seems to have weeded some out. It actually bit me though- When I bought my daughter's '79 Corvette, it wasn't old enough for the tags. LOL

And I will admit, my '52 runs antique tags. And I DO use it some.  It's not a daily driver because I have a company car, but it's made a run or two to Lowe's, and it's driven regularly. 

   Ironically, we also have a year of manufacture law, but it has NONE of the perks of the Antique tags. Antique- one time registration, no issues.  The Year of Manufacture plates I run on the '46 costs me an extra $40 a year, I think it is, and is treated just like a regular license. It also specifies that I have to put current stickers on my antique plate, but that's something I conveniently forget and keep in the glove box. I don't wanna mess up my pretty "half ton truck" plate that took me five years to find...

[R W Burgess]

7 hours ago, trimacar said:

As stated the 25 year rule is not going to change, and it's great for the AACA as it gets more cars and younger people involved.

 

My biggest pet peeve about the 25 year rule is not with the club, but with the States.

 

In Virginia, a vehicle with an antique plate does not have to be inspected, nor is there personal property tax on the vehicle.  In addition, the plate is permanent, no yearly fee.

 

So, when I see what is obviously a work truck with antique plates, or an obvious daily driver with antique plates, it's upsetting to me.  We now have a vehicle which is being used daily, is in unknown mechanical condition thus could be dangerous on the road to others, and pays no taxes. In addition, after the initial registration, there's no proof of insurance required. 

 

 

*

*

Virginia is cracking down on farm tags now, requiring insurance. I am thinking they will require a state tag now to enforce it. Antiue tags may be next as a stronger followup.

[john hess]

I'll stir the pot some.... 22 years and Teslas will be eligible.... I think it's all relative to your own age mostly.... just get out and enjoy the shows... no one is forcing you to look at everything....

[Peter Gariepy]

25 minutes ago, john hess said:

22 years and Teslas will be eligible...

First Teslas came out in 2008. So they start being eligible in 2033. 11 years away.

[Peter Gariepy]

• Proverb. What is useless to one person is valuable to another.
• One man’s trash is another man’s treasure

 

[1912Staver]

I don't have anything against " newer " vintage cars. But I attend far fewer car events than I used to as a result of the dropping numbers of pre - war cars.

[Walt G]

It has been some time but when there were more old car shows here on long island ( long before covid put a damper on any activity) in order to get car owners who had a range of years to attend a car show the $ fee for a car built 1935 or earlier was less then something newer. That changed but mostly remained the lower fee for pre war cars. this wasn't to FAVOR earlier cars just to get them out to participate more and encourage the owners to use them. Cruise nights became popular, something for people to go to during the week nights when it was light later in the day. Several local ones i would attend in my pre WWII cars, not because I didn't like post WWII cars but because I didn't own any! Only so much $ and space.

The pre war cars always drew more comments and looks because they are so different styling wise from what you can see from the 1970s until now. Owners of both /all eras have to talk to each other more so that perhaps an appreciation of what everyone owns and why is there , be more open and cordial  and perhaps the friendlyness will be returned.

[Peter Gariepy]

10 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I don't have anything against " newer " vintage cars. But I attend far fewer car events than I used to as a result of the dropping numbers of pre - war cars.

A catch 22.  

Pre-War car owners don't bring out their pre-war cars because other pre-war car owners don't bring out their cars.

 

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, R W Burgess said:

*

*

Virginia is cracking down on farm tags now, requiring insurance. I am thinking they will require a state tag now to enforce it. Antiue tags may be next as a stronger followup.

Yup. And the same parties who stirred up all the 2007 mess on antique plates are also involved with the farm use tags. Go figure.

 

Not a bad thing really, but after all the excuses they gave for going after antique plates, seems to me there are more improperly used antique tags on Virginia roads now than there were 15 years ago. Mostly 1990s stuff that is definitely not maintained or used as a properly licensed antique.

 

I don't mind newer stuff at a cruise or show, or being licensed as an antique as long as the vehicle's overall condition is a few steps above a well-maintained daily driver. Just today I saw a nice 80s Caprice COUPE wearing antique plates being fueled up. And it was certainly nicer than yer typical DD.