Jim Taylor's Collection Being Sold

[Avanti Bill]

I had the pleasure of seeing the Jim Taylor car collection while attending last year's spring meet in Saratoga, NY, it was amazing.  I have never seen so many collector cars with toll transponders in them indicating they were all driven.   Jim gave a talk about most every car in the collection and was a very gracious host.  I see that it is being sold, I hope he is OK and just making a change.  The sale will be the talk of the summer as it is an amazing collection.

 

Hear is a link. 

https://linkagemag.com/broad-arrow-group-announces-passion-for-the-drive-the-cars-of-jim-tayor/

[Bhigdog]

Amazing collection.

But I can't help but wonder........Why? At what point do you say enough is enough? At what point does the too much of a good thing kick in?

When you can have any material thing you desire what's the point of desire.

Being filthy rich must really suck............Bob

 

 

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Amazing collection.

Being filthy rich must really suck............Bob

 

 

There is an old saying down here in Palm Beach………”I rather be rich and miserable, than be poor and miserable.”

 

Do you know what you call a man who has everything he wants? 
 

Contented. 

[1912Staver]

A specific comment on vintage race car collections. Even with deep pockets, trying to own several vintage race cars is in my opinion a poor choice. 

 No sense at all owning World Class , vintage  race cars that become either prestige event, road cars , or parade lap cars. 

 If you are going to own even one vintage race car , you need to race it. And personally anything more than about 3 of them becomes self defeating.

A Jag D type is a great investment car , but hardly something anyone is really going to race these days. With the going rate of admission in the D Type club { Even worse for a GTO } being several Million , they become a semi mobile portfolio.

 If you are going to own a race car ,buy one cheap enough to actually race . Say no more than $250,000.00, and actually use it for racing. There is so much behind the scenes maintenance and development , not to mention driving development to own and actually use even one Vintage, Large Bore car let alone several. 

One open wheel car , one closed wheel , and perhaps one pre - 1955 car. I am talking top class , large bore cars here. If any one person can master all three , even with a talented team keeping things humming along, then they are a rare person indeed. Taking on even more becomes a very difficult proposit

 

If you can master even one of these 45 - 50 year old brutes , my hat is off to you !

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[playswithbrass]

4 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

Amazing collection.

At what point do you say enough is enough? At what point does the too much of a good thing kick in?

 

 

 

He who dies with the most toys wins

[1912Staver]

I keep saying this to my wife. She just looks back with a stare that I understand to mean I am going to be quite lonely at my funeral.

[West Peterson]

Never quite understood the logic in that saying, because He who dies... is dead.

[playswithbrass]

Maybe a Canadian thing?..

[Bhigdog]

55 minutes ago, playswithbrass said:

He who dies with the most toys wins

If he has so many toys, and they came with no longing or anticipation,  and they have become just "stuff", then what exactly has he won? Perhaps he covets oneupmanship and bragging rights. Just another very expensive bowling trophy........ Bob

[Terry Bond]

There are a lot of reasons why people collect things. Some, because they like the things they accumulate.  From my "rules of collecting" - someone will always have more stuff.  Someone will always have more money, and perhaps even better luck. Someone will always be one step ahead of you at Hershey.  Best thing you can to is make them a friend and share collecting together.

Terry

[Larry Schramm]

When I was young, I always told my self that there will always persons that have more money than me, less money than me, but my objective was to do the best that I could and enjoy what I have. 

 

Set personal objectives hopefully when you are young and strive to achieve them.  Most of the time in order to hit high objectives requires sacrifices in the short term for a long term goal. 

 

A wise person told me years ago that the road of life is filled with parking spaces.  You make the decision on how soon and which parking space you want to stop at.  After that only you can be satisfied where you made the decision when and where to stop. 

 

Don't blame anyone else for you decisions and take personal responsibility.

 

Measure your self by your self esteem and self worth, and that is not in dollars. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

55 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

When I was young, I always told my self that there will always persons that have more money than me, less money than me, but my objective was to do the best that I could and enjoy what I have. 

 

Set personal objectives hopefully when you are young and strive to achieve them.  Most of the time in order to hit high objectives requires sacrifices in the short term for a long term goal. 

 

I wise person told me years ago that the road of life is filled with parking spaces.  You make the decision on how soon and which parking space you want to stop at.  After that only you can be satisfied where you made the decision when and where to stop.  Don't blame anyone else for you decision and take personal responsibility.

 

Measure your self by your self esteem and self worth, and that is not in dollars. 

I agree about setting goals when you are young. I did so myself. And I thought reasonably practical ones. Reality is many / most of the vehicle goals over time grew in value { cost } at a rate far greater than my income grew.

 My self esteem is largely attributed to my progress measured against my goals, plus my abilities as I become an older, more experienced person. But lacking involvement with the cars I consider { or considered when younger } important does at times wear thin. It's all well and good to be thoroughly versed in 52 Plymouth's, and probably for most of us a very achievable goal. But for me at least not quite what I had in mind over the decades.

 Add in all the aspects of middle class standards of living vs cost of living over the last 40 years it becomes obvious the size of your wallet does indeed matter in the world of hobby vehicles. Sometimes the decision of when and where to stop is less in your own hands than is comfortable for many of us. Personal responsibility only goes so far. When the factors surrounding and defining your life make such radical changes as we have seen in many parts of North America over the last 40 years all bets are off. Case in point, just the basic factor of housing has become so expensive in some areas as to vastly outstrip nearly every career gains. In 25 years  average house prices have gone from the $200,000.00 's to $1.8 million in my area. And you would probably be shocked what many of these $1.8 million places actually look like. Largely tear downs and development holding properties.  The nicer places are 2.5 and up, the ones you actually might not mind living in. Virtually no ones income has kept pace with such rampant speculation, so hard to apply self responsibility to such an absurd situation.

[John_S_in_Penna]

8 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is an old saying down here in Palm Beach………”I rather be rich and miserable, than be poor and miserable.”

3 hours ago, playswithbrass said:

He who dies with the most toys wins

Then these people don't understand what really

makes people happy.  Regardless of their material

assets, they are truly poor.

 

I've known people from all walks of life.  Those who

truly are rich don't refer to themselves as rich, but

are as modest as the average person.  When you take

your family out for ice cream and sit at a picnic table

on a sunny spring day, it doesn't matter whether your

old car is a Duesenberg or a Ford Falcon.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

8 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

A specific comment on vintage race car collections. Even with deep pockets, trying to own several vintage race cars is in my opinion a poor choice. 

 No sense at all owning World Class , vintage  race cars that become either prestige event, road cars , or parade lap cars. 

 If you are going to own even one vintage race car , you need to race it. And personally anything more than about 3 of them becomes self defeating.

A Jag D type is a great investment car , but hardly something anyone is really going to race these days. With the going rate of admission in the D Type club { Even worse for a GTO } being several Million , they become a semi mobile portfolio.

 If you are going to own a race car ,buy one cheap enough to actually race . Say no more than $250,000.00, and actually use it for racing. There is so much behind the scenes maintenance and development , not to mention driving development to own and actually use even one Vintage, Large Bore car let alone several. 

One open wheel car , one closed wheel , and perhaps one pre - 1955 car. I am talking top class , large bore cars here. If any one person can master all three , even with a talented team keeping things humming along, then they are a rare person indeed. Taking on even more becomes a very difficult proposit

 

If you can master even one of these 45 - 50 year old brutes , my hat is off to you !

 

 

Thanks for the therapeutic video.

[Marty Roth]

4 hours ago, West Peterson said:

Never quite understood the logic in that saying, because He who dies... is dead.

Obviously offered "Tongue-In-Cheek"

I've heard this multiple times, and also had the bumper sticker on one of my trailers.

[ericmac]

Professionally,  I am a Psychologist and see anywhere from 7-10 people every day who are experiencing some measure of distress. When interacting with each and every one of them I try to inject some small bit of joy. I think we all need that every day, whether it is an ice cream cone, a hug, listening to a well written piece of music or executing a perfect 1-2 shift in a 110 year old car. If antique cars are the conduit of joy, all the better. 

[edinmass]

If one’s life is measured by counting material things, that person can and never will be “happy”. Sadly, many people never master the skill of how to live well. If you truly enjoy your life, the material things in it really don’t matter. I do not own, and shall never own a Duesenberg. That said I have structured my life where I get to experience them in many different aspects of  driving, servicing, diagnostics, ect. I also get the exact same enjoyment from my Ford T and Pierce. If tomorrow dawns and I only participate in the hobby with a T, so be it. I will still get up and face each day with a smile, positive attitude, and continue to try and do good work, and do good deeds to and for the people in my life. So the rewards will still be exactly the same as before. Think you have problems? Take a look at what’s happening in Ukraine, Northern China, and another twenty places around  the world you never see or hear about. Compared to 99 percent of all the people in this world who have ever came before us………my/your life has been “better” than theirs by anyones definition. Is anyone here actually suffering  from hunger, neglect, war, oppression, or violence? Nope……….we here are all facing the same “first world” problems………..how big is our house, how big is the garage, how “good” of a car do I have, ect. Fact is all of us here have our problems……….and they are self imposed. None of us have the distress and nightmare scenarios that millions face every day. In the big picture……..we really only have problems in our minds of our own makings. The best life is the simple life…….family, friends, work. What are the real problems in life? Food instability, homelessness, sickness, war, these are the real issues that cause suffering beyond measure………and no one here is suffering from them……….except all of us are prone to health issues over time from the human condition. Count your blessings……….they are a hundred times more in quantity than your problems……..problems that we perceive and impose upon ourselves that in reality do not exist. They are of our own making.

 

PS- the above is not meant to imply that tangible things shouldn’t be enjoyed or perused. Looking forward to accomplishments and achievements is a fundamental part of life’s experiences. Perspective is ultimately the most important. Enjoy what you have, and find a way to share it……….that is life’s true reward.

Edited April 27, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Everyone has their own motivations for what we do. Sometimes it’s really hard to understand why the other guy is doing what he’s doing it.  Doesn’t mean he wasn’t happy doing it.

[gwells]

The late Don Peterson used to tell me the more cars he had, the harder a time he had finding one that would run... LOL!

[Larry Schramm]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

PS- the above is not meant to imply that tangible things shouldn’t be enjoyed or perused. Looking forward to accomplishments and achievements is a fundamental part of life’s experiences. Perspective is ultimately the most important. Enjoy what you have, and find a way to share it……….that is life’s true reward.

IMO, this is where true happiness resides.  Sharing with others.

[TAKerry]

Materialism aside, I often wonder how people take care of large collections of vehicles. Once a person reaches the status of having someone to do so for them then that is great. However for the average joe, having 2, 3, 4, 5 or more cars to me seems like just too much work, and neglectful of the vehicles. I have said before, but at one time between my brother and myself we had a couple of dozen motorcycles. They were easy to buy and store, but keeping them all in running condition became a second job. The fun was no longer there. I still have a few in the garage that I would like to whittle down a bit more as they just sit there. I know of people that have multiple cars with maybe one that is running. I think to my self why have 10 cars if you can only drive one? (and this is coming from someone with a running car, a car under construction and 2 project cars!!........ I need to get rid of something).

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Think you have problems? Take a look at what’s happening in Ukraine, Northern China, and another twenty places around  the world you never see or hear about. Compared to 99 percent of all the people in this world who have ever came before us………my/your life has been “better” than theirs by anyones definition. Is anyone here actually suffering  from hunger, neglect, war, oppression, or violence?

What is disturbing is many around the world have the same hopes and dreams we do when it comes to old cars.  This museum just moved to a nice new facility last year in Dnipro that is open to the public:  https://ukraine-kiev-tour.com/dnipropetrovsk-sights-technical-museum-cars-time.html

 

https://mapsus.net/UA/antique-auto-museum-dnepropetrovsk-255006

 

I am hoping all is well for the owner(s), being in the center of the current conflict.

 

Craig

Edited April 27, 2022 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Robert G. Smits]

14 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

Someone will always be one step

Terry you have been one step ahead of 99% of us for a long time and we appreciate your "sharing" and educating us.  Enjoyed seeing you on the Founders Tour

[alsancle]

39 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Materialism aside, I often wonder how people take care of large collections of vehicles. Once a person reaches the status of having someone to do so for them then that is great. However for the average joe, having 2, 3, 4, 5 or more cars to me seems like just too much work, and neglectful of the vehicles. I have said before, but at one time between my brother and myself we had a couple of dozen motorcycles. They were easy to buy and store, but keeping them all in running condition became a second job. The fun was no longer there. I still have a few in the garage that I would like to whittle down a bit more as they just sit there. I know of people that have multiple cars with maybe one that is running. I think to my self why have 10 cars if you can only drive one? (and this is coming from someone with a running car, a car under construction and 2 project cars!!........ I need to get rid of something).

 

They don't.   The really good collections have managers (see Ed as an example - his boss was desperate) but more regular guys - even rich ones - struggle to keep more than a few cars running.  I'm impressed that my old man kept 10 or so collector cars in running/driving conditions for decades.   He did it with a lot of focus and regularly starting and driving them.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Wow, I continue not to understand the willingness to criticize someone who have been successful in life and can own whatever he or she wants. Jim Taylor had a right to curate his collection and enjoy it as he sees fit.  Mr. Taylor happens to have a lot of cars that do run and he drives the heck out of them.  He also willingly allows groups to tour his collection and has shared his knowledge of these cars. 

 

This hobby has too much of criticizing people who have big collections, trailer their cars or any other number of personal choices they make.  An example of a collection that seemingly would be criticized is Nicola Bulgari's.  Over 200 cars that are well maintained and most likely never would have been restored by anyone but him.  He loves American cars and willing to invest massive sums of money to save them for history.  He should be celebrated.  Ed works for a great guy who has a carefully curated collection of fine motorcars with great provenance and they all run and are driven. Yes, there are collections that just are  mostly stored and one, Mark Smith's, will be going up for auction at some point but they were saved!  Now others will get to enjoy them. P.S. Mark had many "drivers."

 

I doubt that many who criticize the extent of the Taylor collection have ever talked with him.  If they had I think their comments would be much different.

 

 

[B Jake Moran]

15 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

If he has so many toys, and they came with no longing or anticipation,  and they have become just "stuff", then what exactly has he won? Perhaps he covets oneupmanship and bragging rights. Just another very expensive bowling trophy........ Bob

In many respects I agree with Bob.  I have owned 260 + vehicles when I was a collector, over 45 years, obviously not all at once.  

 

We don't know this fellow, or I don't - but we all know there are several massive collections of cars in the USA.   If I had the money, I would likely have a 20 car collection, then live vicariously through others and their cars.  

 

But mostly I have been like Wayne Carini, "it's all about the chase".  Once I got the car I was chasing and enjoyed it for awhile, it would be sold.  

[B Jake Moran]

9 hours ago, ericmac said:

Professionally,  I am a Psychologist and see anywhere from 7-10 people every day who are experiencing some measure of distress. When interacting with each and every one of them I try to inject some small bit of joy. I think we all need that every day, whether it is an ice cream cone, a hug, listening to a well written piece of music or executing a perfect 1-2 shift in a 110 year old car. If antique cars are the conduit of joy, all the better. 

Very correct and wise.  My wife is a bit of a worrier and a hectic person, she's also a 4th grade teacher (yikes).  I have experienced a lot of bad things happen in my life - I could care less.  I stop and I DO SMELL the roses.  

[58L-Y8]

The old adage: "The enjoyment of what we have is spoiled by always wanting more." is so sadly true.  

[auburnseeker]

I don't have a problem with anyone who stores a collection properly so that the car is in the best possible shape for the next curator.   The ones that hoard them in the worst if any storage so they deteriorate to a point where they really are good for nothing more than parts or need everything rebuilt is where the problem is.  Yes some cars stored well will need a full mechanical rehab, but I would suspect alot of them were already at that point (in this collection or others)  when they were acquired.

 

Looks like this fellow stored them well and shared them with alot of people.  Very commendable.  

 

 

[edinmass]

The collection I manage is 14 cars, why not 15 or fifty, or even 150? Because the owner decided thats what he wanted. Works for me. If we had just three more cars, I would need an assistant for 30 hours a week. Right now, I'm a one man show with my trusty helper and spare set of hands on a per diem basis. Down the street there is a 400 car collection.........all covered in dust, flat tires, oil leaks, dead batteries, you name it. Cars never leave, never get to shows, and they just sit. They can be described as stable but neglected. The collection manager is a great guy. He works 15 hours a week. There isn't time for cars......just the yard and parking lot duties. No tours, no visitors. Everyone here knows the owners name......not as a car guy, but as a businessman. Go figure.......it's how he does things. Met him a few times, great guy and a real gentleman. I never bring up the subject of the cars. I just feel lucky to be one of the five people who know what's there......maybe in the future I will get to play with some of them. 

[Gunsmoke]

Steve M got on here ahead of me saying "Wow, I continue not to understand the willingness to criticize someone who have been successful in life and can own whatever he or she wants. Jim Taylor had a right to curate his collection and enjoy it as he sees fit......" I agree 100%, if I was Mr.Taylor I'd be royally pissed that someone posted the link to the auction on here and the junkyard dogs came ripping out of their scrap yards yapping and snarling. What's with it guys. Sometimes inconsiderate and unsolicited opinions hurt people! Mr Taylor never asked for any opinion. STAY (or should I say SIT)! 

[JV Puleo]

This is the major reason I am skeptical of most car "museums"...in quotation marks because many are just used car dealerships that call themselves a museum...which they are not.

Unlike many things that are best kept in museums, cars do not respond well to being static displays. They are complicated mechanical devices that will go bad just sitting still unless one is going to keep them in a bag of inert gas. I can think of at least one prominent collection, which is a legitimate museum, where the curator regarded all of the cars as static displays. In time, none of them would start, much less go down the road. A new curator thought that maybe they should at least run and enlisted the help of some volunteers...I spoke to one at a car meet where he was showing one of the jems of the collection. Enthusiastic? Yes... knowledgeable about pre-WWI cars? No. And this is probably a best case scenario. At least management wanted the cars to run.

[F&J]

 

I don't feel that any posts here are criticizing the Taylor guy, rather some here are trying to give perspective on life and warning about what seems to be needed to define a person as being "successful".  That term has always bothered me as it "always" is about finiancal stuff. 

 

Has anyone here ever had their outlook on life changed by a simple sentence from another person?  I have:

 

A decade-plus ago, my Son and I visited a 69 year old very ''successful" guy to look at his huge collection of big trucks.  He ran 4 different businesses out of a monstrous modern complex.   He had just returned from a month long vacation to Florida that his heart Doctor forced him to do.

 

He was giving us a great tour with the history of each expensive truck in there, but near the end, he froze up in silence, staring off in space.  Then after an uncomfortable few moments of dead silence, he blurted out:  "You know.., I made a LOT of money in my life".....pause..."and I thought I needed all of this". 

 

I suspect his Doctors prognosis was terminal.   On the way out of the huge roll-up door, I noticed his huge diesel pusher $$$ motorhome was blocked in by a tiny aluminum 10 foot Jon-boat laying on the floor.  He seemed so genuinely happy when he said he puts it up on the SUV roof to go sit in a pond and fish after work.

 

 

 

 

[auburnseeker]

Being successful is whatever makes you smile.  If it's a big house you only use one room or a collection of cars you can drive at any minute,  or just go into the room flick on the lights and absorb them all even if none run.  As long as you maintain the house so it doesn't fall apart and atleast store the cars well enough they don't deteriorate significantly and they made you smile every day you had them,  well that seems what the goal.  They made your life better for having them.  Seems like the goal we all have or we wouldn't torment ourselves with all their problems if there wasn't the goal of finishing or driving them at the end of the tunnel.   I don't think we are into old cars just to torment ourselves.  (though some days that really does seem like the real reason  )

[alsancle]

20 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Being successful is whatever makes you smile.  If it's a big house you only use one room or a collection of cars you can drive at any minute,  or just go into the room flick on the lights and absorb them all even if none run.  As long as you maintain the house so it doesn't fall apart and atleast store the cars well enough they don't deteriorate significantly and they made you smile every day you had them,  well that seems what the goal.  They made your life better for having them.  Seems like the goal we all have or we wouldn't torment ourselves with all their problems if there wasn't the goal of finishing or driving them at the end of the tunnel.   I don't think we are into old cars just to torment ourselves.  (though some days that really does seem like the real reason  )

 

Got a buddy with a huge house with just he and his wife.  Kids are gone.   Driveway is like 900 feet and the electric bill is 1k a month.   Asked him why he still lived there and he told me because every time he came up the drive and saw the house it made him smile.

[charlier]

3 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

I doubt that many who criticize the extent of the Taylor collection have ever talked with him.  If they had I think their comments would be much different.

Steve, I agree with you 110%............

 

I too had the pleasure of seeing the Jim Taylor car collection while attending last year's spring meet in Saratoga, NY. He spent 2 hours+ with our morning tour group (there was an afternoon group as well I believe) going through the entire facility talking about the history of many of the vehicles, telling some entertaining stories about his experiences with them and passing on some little know information about them. He was a very gracious host and was always willing to answer the many questions we put to him. One could tell this man really loves cars and sharing them with others.

 

Simply put, he is one heck of a Car Guy. I am SO Glad I had the opportunity to meet him and see his collection. It was one of the highlights of the Saratoga National for me that I will always remember.

 

 

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

Being successful is whatever makes you smile.  If it's a big house you only use one room or a collection of cars you can drive at any minute,  or just go into the room flick on the lights and absorb them all even if none run.  As long as you maintain the house so it doesn't fall apart and atleast store the cars well enough they don't deteriorate significantly and they made you smile every day you had them,  well that seems what the goal.  They made your life better for having them.  Seems like the goal we all have or we wouldn't torment ourselves with all their problems if there wasn't the goal of finishing or driving them at the end of the tunnel.   I don't think we are into old cars just to torment ourselves.  (though some days that really does seem like the real reason  )

Couldn't have said it better. 

 I think the biggest torment is the time scale that becomes necessary for those of us who don't have much disposable income in these modern times.

 Those of us with deeper pockets get all the background items { property , shop, storage building , tools , equipment etc. } dealt with early on. Those resources allow them to just get on with the cars themselves without the time sinks the rest of us face in getting to square one of the cars themselves.

 Old cars are a process, but at times it seems a slow motion process.

[1937hd45]

I'll never understand the logic of the people that enjoy pissing on "rich" people, and don't spend any time with them. Everyone that has posted a positive reply before me is a personal friend, most I've met in person many years ago and enjoy having them as a friend. 

 

Bob 

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

There isn't time for cars......just the yard and parking lot duties. No tours, no visitors. Everyone here knows the owners name......not as a car guy, but as a businessman. Go figure.......it's how he does things. Met him a few times, great guy and a real gentleman. I never bring up the subject of the cars. I just feel lucky to be one of the five people who know what's there......maybe in the future I will get to play with some of them. 

Appears you are close enough to him and can help to a small degree which may give him an incentive to start working on his.  Offer to help get ONE of his running, and then allow space in your shop to help him wash and detail it for him over a few beers on a Saturday afternoon.   One he has one cleaned up and looking nice, may give him some incentive to keep going on his cars.

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

My comment was not meant as a criticism towards anyone that collects cars, either 2 or 200. Just an observation that it takes a bit more effort when multiples are concerned. 

 

As far as being negative towards someone that has been successful enough to have a collection of 'expensive cars', isnt everyone that is on this forum with an antique car, whether a Duesenburg or a Ford Maverick guilty of the same thing? We all have a 'spare' car that is a toy/luxury item to mess around with.