The use of vintage license plate.

[Buffalowed Bill]

If you use a year of manufacture license plate on you car this could happen to you, or maybe it already has. Four or five years ago I was halfheartedly looking on eBay for a 1960's vintage Washington State plate for one of my cars. What I found was too good to be true, a plate that turned out to be a repop (which is allowed in the state) having a license # ABC123. I really can't remember if that was the number letter sequencing, but whatever it was, it was equally special. I wondered what the chances were that this plate was already on a car? So I called the DOL and asked. As I had guessed, when I gave the lady on the phone the #, she responded by asking me if I owned a 1964 Chevrolet, to which I said no. Then she became somewhat flustered and asked me if I owned another vintage car, make and year I don't recall. What neither she nor I had anticipated was that there were two cars in the state with the same license number. A one time mistake or something more endemic I wondered? Regardless the situation was a potential source for some real problems! I remember saying I'm glad it's not me.

 

About two months ago I received a bill for a toll on the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, one for a crossing in June and another in July. The bill noted a car and vintage plate that I own, but the problem was that it wasn't me. I responded by calling and telling them that they had the wrong guy. I told then to check the photo and I'm sure you will find that it's not of a 1937 Studebaker President sedan. Just the other day I got another bill for the same two trips, but indicating mitigating circumstances. Mitigating circumstances-hell yes there are mitigating circumstances! 

 

I called Good To Go!, the operation entrusted with collecting the tolls for the state. When I asked the lady what was going on I was met with only silence. I asked her about the photo of the car, to which she indicated that it only focused on the plate. Could she send me a copy of the photo? No she couldn't. Can you tell me what color the plate is? No it is a black and white photo. Can you tell me where the plated is mounted? On the left rear quarter panel (her words not mine). Please describe the plate? She indicated it had the license number, and on the bottom it had X Washington 35. 

 

Armed with the revaluation that it was a 1935 plate and not a 1937, I went to the DOL. Sure enough there are at least two of us in the state with the same vintage plate, but from completely different plate runs. She muttered that's not good. Problem solved-I doubt it. Someone is going to have to give up his vintage plate. I hope that it's not going to be me. Since my plate has been on the car for nineteen years I hoping that mine was issued before his. 

[60FlatTop]

"They called. Yeah, Studebaker, we made the bet about a year ago. You're buying. S-T-U-D-E"

 

Some days the programmer wins.

[Mark Gregush]

Mine was a toll road fee Xs 2 from the state of Texas. The plate in the photograph was on a tractor trailer. When they had contacted the state of Oregon, the Texas people did not include the letter(s) in front of the number that indicated it was a trailer plate. The plates on my Ford Model T have the same 6 digits but no letter(s) in front and has been parked under a tarp in the back yard for almost a year while the engine is being rebuilt. Not like I have ever been to Texas or drive a stock T on a freeway! They did fix their error. 

[Guest]

I live in Ma and one day I received a letter to pick up my Thunderbird that was in a impound yard in California. It had my plate on it even though I wasn't missing one!

 Not my car!

[1932 plymouth pb sedan]

Many states used sample plates ABC123 for many different years, meaning that there would be more than 1 pair issued as samples. It would not be uncommon for more than 1 person to use date correct sample plates before the state may figure it out.

[Mark Shaw]

A couple of my Buicks have leather plates.  These were often made by the car owner with their house number on it.

 

[trimacar]

No, not with their house number, but rather a number assigned by State or jurisdiction under which they operated.

 

 

 

[39BuickEight]

My father in law got a call about a toll fee.  Same plate number, same vehicle-gold Ford Explorer.  Difference was wrong state—Missouri vs. Kentucky.  They looked very similar in 2015.  Similar enough the camera on the I-65 toll bridge in Louisville mixed them up.

 

 

[ryan95]

I have heard that it is good to check the plate number on a year of manufacture plate with the DMV before you buy it. I found a nice matching Pennsylvania set and bought them before hearing about the idea. I will certainly be checking on the number before I take the time to restore them.

[Bryan G]

I'd wondered about situations like that. Years ago new neighbors were cleaning out the garage and found a pile of old plates, rather neat as they were all VFW tags. I guess they were all the same number. They sold them to folks around town and I see different cars still sporting them.

 

I received a toll-by-mail bill about a year ago, pertaining to our daily driver. MD provides a decent photo showing the whole vehicle and it sure wasn't us. It was remarkably easy to correct as the woman with the state EZ Pass instantly cleared it over the phone. In that case it was something simple like 3FE131 getting mistaken for 3EE131.

[Frank DuVal]

I've had several conversations with toll collection people, all went well. One was correct plate number, but wrong state, that was supposed to be my '38 Graham. In that case, it was another state with the same number, so no way to prevent that!

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

I worry about duplicate serial numbers every time I regenerate a title for one of my model Ts. California has pushed Ford owners to switch serial numbers around since the 1920s! For half a century, whenever an engine was replaced, the car could either continue to use the original engine serial number, OR the new engine serial number! With a hundred thousand such engine changes randomly switching and not switching numbers and engines being rebuilt and later put into other cars? It is a statistic certainty that a whole lot of numbers got duplicated!

 

The only license plate issues I have had with California have been clerical errors resulting in me being mailed tickets. THAT unfortunately has happened several times! And usually takes years to get cleared up! My model T boat-tail roadster was cited for illegal parking hundreds of miles from where it has ever been, and the offender was a Toyota pickup. Took almost four years before they quit mailing me notices.

[Paul Dobbin]

In North Carolina, we can display the YOM plate in place of the current modern tag.   (I keep a copy of the law taped to the back of the new tag under the seat)

 

In Florida we had to mail the YOM tag to the state for approval,  (It had to be original and unrestored)

 

Common practice to put the YOM tag on the front of the vehicle and th new ine on the back.   (Helps car show viewers to get the answer to the #1 question)

WHAT YEAR IS IT?

[ted sweet]

in ny no 2 vehicles can have same number

[kingrudy]

9 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I worry about duplicate serial numbers every time I regenerate a title for one of my model Ts. California has pushed Ford owners to switch serial numbers around since the 1920s! For half a century, whenever an engine was replaced, the car could either continue to use the original engine serial number, OR the new engine serial number! With a hundred thousand such engine changes randomly switching and not switching numbers and engines being rebuilt and later put into other cars? It is a statistic certainty that a whole lot of numbers got duplicated!

 

The only license plate issues I have had with California have been clerical errors resulting in me being mailed tickets. THAT unfortunately has happened several times! And usually takes years to get cleared up! My model T boat-tail roadster was cited for illegal parking hundreds of miles from where it has ever been, and the offender was a Toyota pickup. Took almost four years before they quit mailing me notices.

I purchased my '40 Buick in California in 2009 the title # was RE 3452. The RE 3452 was a stamping taken off of the engine block and the RE reflects that this is a remanufactured engine. When I moved to North Carolina it took 6 months to straighten this out. My NC title now reflects the correct vehicle serial number. As VIN numbers did not come out until 1956 I am sure there are still cars out there where the numbers are not right.

Edited March 27, 2022 by kingrudy (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

I can't speak to the laws in Washington state, since every state is different. Here in VA, YOM tags must be inspected by the DMV prior to use, presumably both to verify legibility and to verify that there is no duplicate in the system. I have YOM tags on several of my cars, including one registered for daily driver use. Here in VA that is an option, but it requires you to comply with all other DD requirements, like annual safety inspections. And yes, since that provision of the law is not well known, not even to the police, I keep a copy of the law in the glovebox also.

Edited March 27, 2022 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

2 hours ago, kingrudy said:

I am sure there are still cars out there where the numbers are not right.

 

As I recall, Ed (sometimes in Mass) M ran into that with the Great White! After getting it running, he went to license the car in Florida. Florida as well as some other states check a national data base to confirm serial numbers and check for outstanding theft or wanted issues. They found another car, of another marque, in another state that had the same serial number as his White. He got it straightened out. He posted about it in one of the wonderfully long White threads.

Bureaucracies annoy me. They make a bunch of rules, and then actually expect people a hundred years before to follow them! The clearly obvious fact of life is, that is NOT going to happen. Intelligently addressing the simple fact that people before did something that worked well at that time is not all that difficult. Ignoring the fact that fifty or a hundred years ago is NOT going to change THEIR ways just to suit some bureaucrat today is absolutely stupid!

Assigning unrelated modern VINs based upon rules that vary from state to state (as some states have done for fifty years now!) only makes the whole situation worse (many more layers of probable and nearly impossible to follow errors!). A simple universal and trackable additional "VIN" incorporating the original manufacturing and serial number information would work much better. Even at that, universal compliance going back 130 years is virtually impossible. And ANY system can be defeated, or will have bizarre inconsistencies.

[Mark Shaw]

22 hours ago, trimacar said:

No, not with their house number, but rather a number assigned by State or jurisdiction under which they operated.

Not all states or jurisdictions assigned plate numbers.  It varied by locale and took years for all states to issue numbers and eventually license plates.  Leather License Plates – Pre-State Leather License Plates for Antique Automobiles (leatherplates.com)

 

[Mark Wetherbee]

Guess I have been lucky so far in that both Maine and North Carolina have some very lenient laws regarding the YOM plates. In both states they allow you to put any pair of matching year plates on your vehicle provided that you keep the actual registration plate available for any persons inspection on request. So in effect there’s no correlation between the actual plate number and your car when you put YOM plates on!

 

 I expect that at some point this law will be so abused that it changes, but for the meantime, I’ll keep my new plate available and under my front seat…

[AL1630]

Idaho is very lenient, for an extra fee ($20/Year) you can run YOM plates as though they were standard issue modern ones. No restrictions, you can even put them on any pre-1973 (last year for stamped-in date) daily driver. Just need to send photos to the DMV so they can make sure the number isn't in use and the plates are readable. Never had any issues with them, knock on wood.

[RAH]

YOM plates in Wa. state are based on the year of the vehicle on which the plate is to be affixed. Which should be logical. right? However In Wa. the first year of licensing and assigning numbers was, March of 1909. This was where they assigned you a number and you would display it however it would show. It could be painted on  the hood, Yea right? or those aluminum house numbers attached to a leather plate. Then in April of 1916 was the introduction of official State metal plates . AND here lies the problem I had with a very early metal plate for my 1915 Dodge Brothers Roadster. In the beginning the date on the plates were based on date of SURRENDER not APPLICATION. My early 3 digit plate had the date 1916 on it. I had to convince those DMV people in Olympia that my 3 digit plate with '16 date of surrender would , in fact, be appropriate for my Aug. '15 car. Suffice it to say it was an educational experience but I had to do the fact checking for them. Very interesting! I forgot to mention it was in 1919 that they switched to Year of Application instead of date of Surrender.  

Edited March 28, 2022 by RAH
Further info. (see edit history)

[Graham Man]

In MN they run the plate number before they will issue the YOM plate.  So yes, it might be a good idea to check before you buy the YOM plates.  I have been lucky so no problems.

 

Anybody see this one before, they made lots of them, I guess just wall hangers?

[avgwarhawk]

MD YOM tag must be presented at the DMV to assure color is correct for the year. There is nothing in file for the tag. The YOM tag when run in MD data base will be associated with the historic tag registered to the vehicle.  These tags need to be in the car in case one is stopped by the police.

[Mark Shaw]

     Just another interesting registration issue:   When I tried to register my 1913 Buick that I got from my father in CA, the WA DMV researched the frame number (looking for a VIN #).  My Buick only had a 4 digit frame # and the DMV found a 17 digit VIN # from a stolen car that had the same 4 digits in order.  So, the clerk refused to issue a license until I showed her a photo of the car and asked how many digits she found.  She had to call Olympia to verify this 4 digit number was OK & got authorization to issue the license. 

     

     All this happened after the WA State Police inspector refused to accept the frame # because it was stamped on a tag riveted to the frame and not stamped directly into the frame.  But that is another story of bureaucratic nonsense...

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[3macboys]

1 hour ago, Mark Shaw said:

 All this happened after the WA State Police inspector refused to accept the frame # because it was stamped on a tag riveted to the frame and not stamped directly into the frame.  But that is another story of bureaucratic nonsense...

And that right there is the problem with government employees in general - the vast majority are actually quite good and decent to deal with but....policing is no different than other government jobs, some officers are in those positions because they have a passion for it and are willing to learn or listen, some are there as punishment, some are just padding their resume and some because their commander couldn't handle their incompetence so instead of dealing with the problem they just transferred them to get rid of them so they weren't their problem anymore. The last group is the worse to deal with because on paper they look like they have a lot of experience and they have no clue that they have no clue...don't ask me how I know.  Unfortunately those are the government workers that stick in your memory.  I'm sure those of you with military experience will be nodding along.

[TAKerry]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:26 AM, Graham Man said:

In MN they run the plate number before they will issue the YOM plate.  So yes, it might be a good idea to check before you buy the YOM plates.  I have been lucky so no problems.

 

Anybody see this one before, they made lots of them, I guess just wall hangers?

2018-07-05_09-19-58 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr

Similar to the plate I have on my Trans Am. MD had a one year only special for the bicentennial. I found this pair at Carlisle a few years ago. I was not driving then, but I seem to recall that every couple of years the state would come out with a new plate. This resulted in a lot of plates from the 70s now available in great condition. Now the same plate is used for years with a sticker to update.

When I registered my 'antique' car in MD there are no inspections. However I did have to take my tag to the dmv for inspection before use. The girl at the counter had never seen one like I had!

 

To the OP, sounds like your state needs better toll cameras. I just got a notice in the mail for a violation the other day. Perfect pic of the back of my truck, and another zoom shot of the tag, in colour! 

[Mark Shaw]

13 hours ago, 3macboys said:

their commander couldn't handle their incompetence so instead of dealing with the problem they just transferred them to get rid of them so they weren't their problem anymore.  The last group is the worse to deal with

Accurately describes the inspector in my case.  He had recently transferred to inspections and was not a happy camper.  I called his boss who overruled him the next day.  

[Bill Stoneberg]

Down here in Texas, you can run YOM plates instead of newer ones.  Cost less too. You have to take the plate in to get them checked by the DMV.

 

A friend runs YOM plates on his mid 70's Buick.  He was going to the National Meet and was sleeping at a motel in Kansas.

 

He walked out in the morning to numerous police telling him to put his hands up.  He was arrested and cuffed and thrown in a police car because the car was reported stolen.

 

It was Kansas plates with the same number that was reported stolen Not Texas.

 

Eventually he was let free and made it to the meet with a story.

[leomara]

Here in New Jersey they don't even know what YOM license plates are.........

[NailheadBob]

I received a ticket in the mail, with a parking violation from downtown Chicago with a photo of the license plate and rear end of the car next to the "no parking sign" at the time my car was in my garage with the engine removed, I took photos of my car with engine removed and took that to court, once the judge seen my photo of my car in my garage with engine removed, just rolled his eyes, and asked if the police officer would step forward, he was not there and case was dismissed.

[Buffalowed Bill]

I still don't know how this is going to play out. Once the plate was described to me by Good T Go as a 1935 plate, and not the 1937 plate/car that I own, I assumed that it would be a simple process. Not so fast, not that easy! Yesterday I talked with an astute and sympathetic DOL employee. She told me that what she is seeing is a 1953 plate. She was incensed that anyone working with GTG would not recognize the difference. Armed with this layer of intrigue I went back to GTG, but seemingly just muddied the waters. It seems as though GTO and the DOL don't communicate very well. At least this lady at GTO promised to send it up the chain of command and took my email address. So we shell see. 

[mrspeedyt]

I have a pair of 1963 style black California plates that were originally issued in 1968 or 1969. I checked with the California motor vehicle department and they said that the plate number is not ‘clear’. so I guess somebody currently is using a 1956 style California yellow plate with the same letters and number sequence as a YOM plate.

Edited March 31, 2022 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[ply33]

7 minutes ago, mrspeedyt said:

I have a pair of 1963 style black California plates that were originally issued in 1968 or 1969. I checked with the California motor vehicle department and they said that the plate number is not ‘clear’. so I guess somebody currently is using a 1956 style California yellow plate with the same letters and number sequence as a YOM plate.

In California in the 1930s they issued new plates every year and they reused numbering sequences. And some of those old sequences are similar to current sequences for things like motorcycles. The result is that a fairly high number of old plate numbers are in use on current vehicles. Even twenty years ago when I got the YOM plates for my car that made a big difference in the asking price for the vintage plates. If the numbers were "free and clear" (i.e. not in current use) the plates cost a lot more than if not.

 

For what it is worth, the reason why this is important in California is because the YOM plates become the actual, real, current plates for your car with no mileage or use restrictions.

[AL1630]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

In California in the 1930s they issued new plates every year and they reused numbering sequences. And some of those old sequences are similar to current sequences for things like motorcycles. The result is that a fairly high number of old plate numbers are in use on current vehicles. Even twenty years ago when I got the YOM plates for my car that made a big difference in the asking price for the vintage plates. If the numbers were "free and clear" (i.e. not in current use) the plates cost a lot more than if not.

 

For what it is worth, the reason why this is important in California is because the YOM plates become the actual, real, current plates for your car with no mileage or use restrictions.

Same thing here. Unfortunately you can't really tell if they're clear until you get the plates so it's a gamble on whether or not you can actually use them.

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

 

For what it is worth, the reason why this is important in California is because the YOM plates become the actual, real, current plates for your car with no mileage or use restrictions.

Yes, but then we Californios get to pay the full-boat ad valorem tax based on your sworn purchase price when you transferred the car into your name, plus the Special Plate fee.  OTOH, if you use Horseless Carriage "HC" plates (thru 1922 and V-16s thru 1963) or Historic Vehicle "HV" plates for newer cars, you pay a flat $2 in lieu of ad valorem.  The HC and HV plates have use restrictions.  For expensive-to-acquire cars, the ad valorem can be brutal:  My 1918 Pierce came with YOM plates, but the renewal would have been $959 for one year; now it has a HC plate over the YOM and the YOM on the front which is technically illegal.

 

About ten years ago, I brought a prewar car to a large vintage car display in front of the California Capitol and I said to the then-President of the Association of California Car Clubs, "Most of our cars here are wearing YOM plates, but how many of those plates do you think are actually registered to those cars?  Perhaps ACCC can work on some legislative relief so that most of the cars here will not be in violation of the law?"  No answer...

[JamesR]

Here are the plates that I bought online for my '65 Thunderbird two or three years ago. They looked vintage to me - they even have rust around the edges - but according to the guy at the DMV who registers vintage plates, they're probably reproductions. The number wasn't in use, but he said the font was ever so slightly different from what they would've used back then. He got his magnifying glass out and everything. I thought he was being overzealous at the time, but had I been observant I would've noticed that outside of the slight rust, there was no visible wear on the plates, almost as if they were unissued. No road rash, dents or even indentations around the holes where the mounting screws would put pressure.

 

So, a waste of 30 bucks or so. I went with the state issued "Historic" plates instead. I can use these for decorations, though. The DMV guy said there are a lot of reproduction old plates out there. That was news to me.

[Buffalowed Bill]

James,

So in Nebraska they require your plates to be original manufacture? For $30 that's not too bad for a wall hanging. 

I haven't bought a plate for some time and never on the internet. I have always gotten my plates from a well vetted local plate dealer, who also restores original plates. I did just look at eBay, so where have all the pre war plates gone? When a good set shows up it looks like inflation has even entered the realm of the original plate. I understand that the labor for a restored plate needs to be paid for, but I guess that increase just pushes up the value of the unrestored plates.