Always try to start off on the right foot when dealing with people

[auburnseeker]

Most of you know I sell on Ebay, but I've seen this elsewhere, even here on the forums. 

I had a customer buy about 6 or 7 items at auction.  

 That was 2 days ago.

 I list about 30-40 brochures a night and sell by make chronologically so that often takes 3 days to a week or even more to finally run through a car make,  often then going to the next make under that parent company so customers could literally spend a month just buying GM stuff for example. 

  A few times a year I get a message like this.

"I need some clarification and some communication. I've never once left negative feedback, but I am not a happy customer at this point. Your listings specifically state you will combine shipping and now, following the auction, I have not heard from you in any way regarding such combined shipping. When I request a revised total, there is even a message saying you do not combine shipping, which is directly contrary to your listings. Did you play the bait-and-switch game? I bid based on expected combined shipping rather than your shipping amount for each item. So far, these auctions seem very misleading. As I said, I've never had an issue with any seller on eBay, but I will start investigating my options if I don't hear from you today, Monday, May 11, 2020.

Thank you."

 

Here is the listing from the item he sent the message . 

 

 

 

 

" Up tonight I have the beginning of a collection of literature I just acquired.  Here I have a  Genuine original 1969 Ford sales Brochure.  This is 8 and 1/2 by 11 inches with around 10 pages.     Decent shape with wear as shown.     Keeping NOS Affordable.  You can buy directly from me at sometimes down right cheap prices or buy from one of the many dealers I ship to weekly for a much higher price.  Remember the government is still printing Money but this is decades Old.       A nice finishing touch to your Authentic restoration.  These little parts really make your restoration stand out.   The part number on this is not available.  Remember always use genuine parts in your restoration.  Don't miss out!!!

For Combined shipping, contact me Before proceeding to checkout to pay so I can get you an Adjusted Invoice.  Checkout will NOT give you an adjusted shipping rate.  "

 

Here is the direct link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/383528808870?ul_noapp=true

 

Now when you start off like this and the info is right in front of you,  as a seller I would really like to give you both barrels because of the content and tone of your message.

Instead I wrote back this way 

"I gladly combine shipping on any orders. However I never know when a customer is done until they message me and say so. I run tabs for up to 30 days for some people so I wait to hear. 
I do have this stated in bold script letters right below the description. 

If you look at this listing again you will se it.

I won't even get into the pitfalls of ebay and the scam they have going. I have tried changing that dead link for combined shipping to an active one even inquiring into the ebay community and no one can figure out how to make it functional if it wasn't originally (the first time you listed) set up that way (seems they took the ability to change it away when they started collecting fees on shipping conveniently) . They are hoping customers will just pay some crazy amount of shipping they stack up, as they collect a fee (percentage) on all shipping paid. When I refund the extra they keep that fee. I always have refunded customers when they overpay shipping, Usually eating that fee. Now it's a nice little side game they have going if you figure a few dollars a day from thousands of people is a whole lot of free money. 

Anyways I will get an invoice together shortly.  
Thanks for the purchases, Randy"

 

So to avoid a gun fight at the OK corral,  just think about the way your message can be interpreted before hitting that send button.  

I will tell you my response before sending had a little more bite,  which I reread and toned down as I often do to make sure it's not mistaken, then I finally hit the send button with what you see above. 

 

By the way the items were boxed and the invoice was sent as soon as I finished typing the response to which he had a $6 shipping bill.  Fast enough that he hadn't even had time to reply to my message.

 

[Matt Harwood]

I feel your pain, brother. I've scaled way back on my efforts to protect stupid people from themselves. 

[auburnseeker]

I can only imagine yours on a much grander scale dealing with much larger numbers and most likely ignorant people. I've sold just enough cars to make me shake my head at more than 50 percent of the people that look at them.   I got to the point of screening and discouraging buyers to the point that if they showed up I knew they were most likely going to buy it because they seemed like the right fit.  I imagine in your business you are really forced to have to see most of them in person. 

Maybe social distancing was really key word for keeping the idiots far enough away that you couldn't reach out and strangle them.  

[Guest]

Totally agree Randy.

I believe the problem lies in most people's failure (or inability) to read the complete listing and comprehend what info is written there.

I too sell regularly on eBay and inevitably get ten questions on every listing asking me something that is already clearly stated in that listing.

I think your buyer fits perfectly into this category.

Ugh!

[Matt Harwood]

People simply don't read. They look at pictures, they might suffer through the first paragraph or three sentences, but then they're out and want someone to explain it to them. I've wondered frequently whether writing long, detailed descriptions of the cars is a productive use of my time. I assume I'm like other people and that I want to get every bit of information that I can, but most guys don't seem to work that way.

 

I think Randy's frustration is universal and not just limited to automotive-related endeavors. Society has trained most of us to expect immediate gratification with minimal effort, and for someone else to act as a backstop for our own bad decisions. The buck stops with the guy running the business selling whatever it is they're selling. I accept that as part of the gig, but I also think that's why I have so much gray hair.

[Laughing Coyote]

39 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I've scaled way back on my efforts to protect stupid people from themselves.

 

14 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

People simply don't read

 

Isn't that the truth. 

 

[JamesR]

Quote

For Combined shipping, contact me Before proceeding to checkout to pay so I can get you an Adjusted Invoice.  Checkout will NOT give you an adjusted shipping rate. 

 

I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but a seller /retailer is required to read minds. It's in the US Constitution. The inability to do so precludes you from selling high end collector cars, selling vintage literature as an avocation, or even working in a convenience store. I learned this in my own retail business, where I discovered that customer is not only always right, but also wise and all-knowing (though not required to read minds.)

[FLYER15015]

Most test scores are low, because the student did not read / understand the instructions / question.

Put the emphasis on "read" !

 

Mike in Colorado

[Bhigdog]

That is EXACTLY why I rarely sell anything to the general public. I mostly just give un-needed or un-wanted  stuff to people I know. I've given away campers, lawn mowers, drill presses, cars, car parts, amusement machines. All in working condition. Likely thousands of dollars worth of "stuff" over the years. I always just trade my cars in even though I know I'm getting hosed.

But I NEVER get aggravated or pissed off.

Well worth it, methinks..................Bob

[1937hd45]

The LESS value something has the MORE demanding the buyer is! Sold a First Day Cover, that is an envelope with a postage stamp that they used to mail out and people collect them. I have a box of them, and it is an effort to get $1.55 with FREE postage, hoped to make a few bucks on volume. Sold one last week with a request for a cardboard backer for "Protection". Sure, I'm Mr. Nice Guy, how the 55 cent letter is now a package and cost more than the total sale. Guess who is bitching? YES, post office hasn't delivered it yet. I explained there is something called the Corona virus going around and maybe that had some effect, did he want a FULL REFUND? Idiots won't ever catch that Corona deal. Speaking of idiots, did we ever figure out who at eBay enabled the "fits" option? Nothing dumber than searching 1904 Oldsmobile and finding turbo chargers, floormats and girlie shift lever knobs that also "fit" Bob 

[Lahti35]

Nothing grinds my gears more than a customer coming out of the gate hot accusing me of running a scam, cheating them, being misleading, etc and threatening action against me. Customer is always the wild card, they can go to DEFCON 1 at any time. If anything they are great examples of how not to behave. Starting out kindly if you have a grievance goes along way! There is no way, place, or time you can make everyone happy all the time. Some of the stuff customers write though... dang.

[Matt Harwood]

Just now, Lahti35 said:

Nothing grinds my gears more than a customer coming out of the gate hot accusing me of running a scam, cheating them, being misleading, etc and threatening action against me. Customer is always the wild card, they can go to DEFCON 1 at any time. If anything they are great examples of how not to behave. Starting out kindly if you have a grievance goes along way! There is no way, place, or time you can make everyone happy all the time. Some of the stuff customers write though... dang.

 

You sell cars too?

 

Everyone simply assumes that everything I say is a lie, that every car is the opposite of what I say it is, and that I'm willing to throw away my livelihood, my business, my reputation, my family, my friends, and everything else I've spent the last 20 years building, just to cheat them out of a few hundred bucks. It's very frustrating.

[Brass is Best]

Everybody thinks they are at Wal-Mart when they buy something. They want it cheap with a full warranty and an unlimited return policy.

[Lahti35]

3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

You sell cars too?

 

Everyone simply assumes that everything I say is a lie, that every car is the opposite of what I say it is, and that I'm willing to throw away my livelihood, my business, my reputation, my family, my friends, and everything else I've spent the last 20 years building, just to cheat them out of a few hundred bucks. It's very frustrating.

I run a small lighting shop, custom lighting and such. When I get a special customer some days I question why I even do that!

Edited May 11, 2020 by Lahti35 (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

I should stay out of this fray but it is an everyday issue in life today from my perspective.  With our 55,000 members, forums, Facebook pages, magazine and emails it is a constant source of frustration that things get misinterpreted because of the lack of reading carefully.  I am kind of a speedy reader too so I try to be careful not to step into it.  There is a thread currently on this forum that the original poster stated his post very clearly yet there are at least 3 people asking questions he answered in his very first post!   Reminds me of the saying, "we have met the enemy and he is us!"  

[JFranklin]

8 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

  Reminds me of the saying, "we have met the enemy and he is us!"  

 

Bravo!

[Paul Dobbin]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 I've wondered frequently whether writing long, detailed descriptions of the cars is a productive use of my time. 

 

 

I love to read your descrptions, always informative and realistic, very unlike a used car saleman''s banter.  

[Ron Green]

3 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 

I do have this stated in bold script letters right below the description. 

 

 

I feel your pain. Dealt with many people like this when I worked and ran a business. Forwarding documents, emails, etc for them to hopefully read, interpret, understand and ask questions if necessary. We live in a world of skimmers. Anything past two sentences is typically not read. I tried to put the really important stuff in the very beginning which generally helped.    

[SC38dls]

Randy "You can't please all the people all the time" comes to mind. I often tell my better half - Don't let the turkeys get you down.  That definely applies to guys that can't read or maybe understand what they are reading.

have fun

dave s 

[mike6024]

You could offer the discount automatically, without requiring the buyer to contact you before paying. I have bought that way when the seller has several small items I want, shipping for the first may be $6 and each additional is $2. Or for packs of sandpaper, $5 for shipping the first one, and any additional is free, add various grits to your "cart" then pay. I would rather not contact the seller first for a "revised invoice" prior to paying.

 

4. Under "Combined shipping discounts," you can offer a flat shipping rule, which would set a base rate for the first item purchased, and then a smaller amount for each additional item. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/posting-items/postage-rates/postage-discounts?id=4168

 

 

Flat rate shipping rules

If you're offering a flat rate shipping cost, where all buyers pay the same amount, you can apply two different types of shipping rules:

• Add a fixed amount for each additional item purchased. For example, if the shipping cost on the first item is $5 you could choose to charge just $2 in shipping for each additional purchase
• Subtract an amount from the shipping charge for each additional item purchased. In the same example as above you could choose to charge $1 less than the initial cost (i.e., $4) for each additional purchase

To create a flat shipping rule:

1. On the Combined payments and shipping discounts page, select Create or Edit beneath Flat shipping rule.
2. From the dropdown menu, choose whether to add or subtract an amount for each additional item purchased.
3. Enter the amount to add/subtract.
4. Select Next to review your choices, and then Save.

Edited May 11, 2020 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[padgett]

If you lead with your right foot, that extends the reach of your sword.

[1937hd45]

FREE Postage & Handling in the USA saves all that gibberish, just tack on what coast to coast postage might be to your asking price. 

 

Bob. 

[AL1630]

12 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

FREE Postage & Handling in the USA saves all that gibberish, just tack on what coast to coast postage might be to your asking price. 

 

Bob. 

This might help you get a sale as well. Seems to me like people are more willing to pay $15 with free shipping than $10 with 5 shipping. Not sure why it's like that, probably a similar reason to why things are $99.99 instead of 100.

[mobileparts]

I start everyone at 100 -- and let people earn their own demerits....

Some jack petuties work their way down to zero faster than ever !!!!!

It NEVER used to be that way -- we have been infiltrated....

 

I am pleasurable to deal with, and more knowledgeable than anyone in my  field, 

So luckily and thankfully, I have Thousands of friends and customers (and hopefully the number keeps growing until the day I die....) Who are still at

100 -- and will be there forever ❤️ !!!!!!

 

That -- IS -- the way life is supposed to be !!!!! 

 

Life is too short for Enemies, Issues, and Crabby Old Men ........

[auburnseeker]

I sell high volume to alot of customers so the free shipping would actually probably result in fewer sales as most of the cheaper items go to the same guys and they are happy to pay 3.00 per item but not 8.00.  That's why I can buy the crappy lots with a little gold because I have a way to dispose of the less desirable cheaper than any one else so they throw it in their order.  I don't want to be one of the literature guys with piles of less desirable crap laying around.  The free shipping is really a sham.  Shipping is not free,  it's purely an illusion.  You pay  for the shipping one way or the other.  It's all rolled in on one end or the other.  

I prefer to have my customers pay for just what it cost to get it.  I think many appreciate that as I have had many customers for a few years that seem to really like that feature.  When I ship them a box with 40 brochures for 8.00 which includes a nice literature mailing box (2.50) they seem pretty happy.  

[Ed Luddy]

Since the Co Vid lock down the number of morons replying to any ad I run has increased 150%. Time wasters, wasting my time.

[edinmass]

As Albert Einstein said.........

 

 

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. 

[JustDave]

Hello everyone.         You guys should try running a body shop,I’ve heard everything from did I sign that work order to thatdent wasn’t there,believe me I’ve heard it all,people used to say I didn’t get the check from the insurance company yet,so when the car was a day away from being finished I would call the ins co,I’ve he’d many customers say I did not receive the ins check and then I’d show them where the check was sent out and cashed on a certain day right away the wife or husband must have got it and didn’t tell them,don’t even get me started on dash warning lights they sware  none was on before the accident

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, Ed Luddy said:

Since the Co Vid lock down the number of morons replying to any ad I run has increased 150%. Time wasters, wasting my time.

 

 

You would think that with all the free time at home eBay sales would be up, I try to cover a vast area of things, not just automotive but sales are dead flat. Guess that 5-10 buck item would by food and that is more important.

 

Bob

[George Smolinski]

[padgett]

but stupidity is not contagious..

[JamesR]

I have relatively little experience selling vehicles, but it was my general impression that if I put a motorcycle in the classifieds, I was about 10 times more likely to get a psycho buyer than if selling a car. The only worse category of customer was those coming to look at guns...which is why I stopped putting them in the classifieds about 20 years ago.

Edited May 12, 2020 by JamesR (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

8 hours ago, padgett said:

but stupidity is not contagious..

I heartily disagree. Take a look at what's going on around the country with the Corona.

[kgreen]

The same crowd that you have as buyers is the same from which my company seems to hire.  Hell we don't need free college, we need better participation in the schooling offered now.

[1937hd45]

19 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

Nothing grinds my gears more than a customer coming out of the gate hot accusing me of running a scam, cheating them, being misleading, etc and threatening action against me. Customer is always the wild card, they can go to DEFCON 1 at any time. If anything they are great examples of how not to behave. Starting out kindly if you have a grievance goes along way! There is no way, place, or time you can make everyone happy all the time. Some of the stuff customers write though... dang.

 

 

 

You sold him a carburetor core for rebuilding too? 

 

 

Bob 

[carbking]

I finally gave up on trying to offer exact shipping on Ebay. I once listed a complete set of Elvis Presley movies (33) on VHS tapes. I tried to show exact shipping, but Ebay refused to let me charge more than $4.83 for the shipping (about 20 pounds before packaging).

 

That was the last straw. Ebay pushes free shipping, and I don't have the time to figure a good work-around. I now offer all Ebay sales with free shipping; then when I do the invoice which is included in the box, I break out the shipping so the customer can see that shipping is not free. 

 

And the poster that mentioned that currently, Ebay sales are dead is absolutely correct in my areas of interest; it is a great time to buy.

 

Telemarketing sales in my business, however, are booming. And with the telemarketing, item is priced, and shipping is additional; works well.

 

Jon.

[60FlatTop]

I acquired a large collection of car show dash plaques back into the 1950's and was selling them off through Ebay. This poor guy from Germany was using Ebay's global shipping.

He bought 5 of the and accrued an extra $50 in shipping.

I fixed it for him.

 

Anything I put on Ebay gets listed as free (haha) shipping with an added guestinate. I am pretty sure I am ahead.

[1937hd45]

I feel so sorry for eBay buyers overseas that get screwed using eBay Global shipping. I'm happy to sell and mail overseas man to man for whatever the upcharge /difference is on postage. Bob 

[auburnseeker]

I don't allow ebay to do any more than necessary for me.  I handle all my international shipping.  I've got a couple of Boxes waiting to go to Germany now and a couple more to Canada.  Shipped to Belgium and Norway last week. 

 

The thing i hate with international shipping is it's always expensive,  sometimes more than the item and alot more when it's a 3.00 item and 20.00 shipping because ebay gets their percentage on your shipping.  Though I usually charge the customer exact cost for shipping,  so it is possible with fees, it cost me to sell that item and I gave away for free.   Sorry yes I am allowed to gripe about the boss especially when you can see how they are constantly improving things that you can clearly see will cost you more money and or aggravation to operate,  but this new way will be much better just trust me. 

Even worse when a customer's $60 shipping item gets returned,  though everything was correct in the address and wasn't delivered for whatever reason at their end.  Now ebay makes you refund them because they never got the item.  Usually it's at their post office and they just never picked it up.  Happens a few times a year to me.  

[padgett]

See the movie "Idicracy" however we are not seeing stupidity, are seeing gullibility coupled with herd instinct.