Restorations

[Joe in Canada]

I have been taking my time looking for a project of a pre 1916 car to restore myself. But I notice family as well as friends asking how old will I be when I get it done? Also I am being asked would I not be better off buying a driver seeing it is so expensive to restore a car. How many people are still restoring cars at home today verses thirty years ago? I know back they there was about 25% of us were working on projects and now down to three. What are you restoring to day? 

[1937hd45]

I still have a 1930 Ford Roadster body I found in 1962, and don't think I'll ever have a finished car, and to be totally honest have no burning desire to ever finish it, that is why we call them projects. I did get the '12 T running after sitting in the corner of the garage for 17 years, took a fresh battery some gas and a roll down the hill. Great fun letting my 4 year old Grandson drive it in low range.  Bob

[JV Puleo]

I'm 65... and restoring a total bakset case 1910 car. If I keep on my present schedule, I may be close to being done in 10 years. Why? Because I like doing it. I have practically no interest in shows and none whatsoever in judging — nor do I own a trailer so, when it's done, I'll likely use it locally and maybe, if I keep my health, go on a long "adventure" to Europe. That said, I am doing nearly everything myself, including 95% of the machine work. I would caution you that restoration of a pre-1916 car (other than the VERY common makes) will require a lot of custom work. "Parts" simply aren't readily available and in many cases don't even exist. If you are not prepared to make them, you may be in a real pickle and I don't mean the inevitable cry of being "underwater"... that pretty much goes without saying, especially if you place a high value on your time. If such a restoration is anything more than simply an enjoyable and very challenging thing to do, I'd be very careful. If attending shows is your goal, and you can afford it, buy something that is useable as is. My own impression is that 90% of the unfinished brass cars out there are the result of people not fully realizing how much has to be made from scratch - restoring even a mid-20s car, unless it is very obscure, is rarely as demanding of imagination.

 

I was doing this 30 years ago... I bought this car because I wanted to do one more while I still had the energy to see it through. I've been at it about 4 years now.

Edited December 12, 2016 by JV Puleo
typos (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Joe,

    My advice it to go for it!  I retired five years ago and will be 65 in February 2017.  I have restored three Buicks and maintained and reworked two other previously restored cars in the last 25 years.  I have just one more "lady in waiting"; a 1915 Buick speedster to finish with only paint and wiring yet to do.  The other five keep me busy with maintenance; changing tires, lubrication, tune ups, and ongoing mechanical & cosmetic maintenance that takes time too.  But all this work only happens during winter months and during the rainy days of spring and fall. 

 

During the summer months, I really enjoy my cars on HCCA tours, and now on one & two cylinder tours with my recently acquired Model F Buick.  Join a local club and get to know others with common interests and knowledge of how and where to get things done.  You don't have to be a craftsman, but it really helps to know one or two that can help you learn the skills and/or where to get skilled people with the equipment needed to restore your car.  I agree with JV that if you buy a rare car, make sure it is complete.  If you make connections through a club, you will find very helpful people with the resources you need that will eventually become your touring buddies down the road...

Edited December 7, 2016 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I like partial rehabs.  Seems to be a much shorter tunnel with a more attainable end goal.   If I ever get the right car Maybe.  The 36 Cord I have is about the only thing I can see possibly restoring one day,  but that may get traded before I get to it. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

1949 Cadillac 62 Convertible, 1954 Jaguar XK120SE Roadster, 1947 Hudson Commodore Convertible, 1947 Hudson truck, 1931 Auburn Boat tail Speedster. I will always have projects to build. If age is a factor, keep your project very organized. So if unable to complete the project, who ever steps in to deal with it, will not have a scattered mess. Go for it, keeps the mind and body active. You only want to watch Jeopardy and play checkers if you have to.

[cxgvd]

Pre '16 cars are the most interesting part of the car collecting, restoring and touring aspect of the hobby.  Why not comprimise and obtain an older restoration.  You would get a lower cost of entry than a professional restoration and you can use the car in the season and take on short projects in the freezin season.  Gary

 

[46 woodie]

Joe, I just started re restoring a Model A Ford that I purchased in 1970. It's going to be a total body off restoration. I'm 70 and I wouldn't care what anyone said. It keeps me involved and busy, go for it!

[mercer09]

have about 18 cars to work on and still buying- realize that is what I enjoy doing. (maybe Im a hoarder, but I never hurt anyone).

 

every once in awhile I sell one................

 

there are so many aspects of this hobby. some like trophies, some like driving them, some like looking at them (me) some like trading them.

I have found the majority of guys in this hobby to be terrific!

[alsancle]

I like hiding my cars.   Although I had a blast doing a Caravan in Sept so touring may be the way to go.  My dad is finishing his last car now and he is 91.  Best to just assume you will live to 110 and behave accordingly.

[Restorer32]

I have a couple cars of my own that I never work on. I find that my biggest joy comes in finding a solution to a thorny problem and with 10 or so customers' cars under restoration at any one time there are always thorny problems in need of solutions. I also get a kick out of the wide variety of projects that come our way. I would have thought we'd never be asked to restore another Model A, much less a 4 door sedan, yet we have been, Obviously a car with deep family sentiment attached. 

[Paul Dobbin]

At age 13 when I wanted a used motorcycle, my father set the criteria.  Yes, I could have one and in fact he would pay for half of it up to the total of $75.00.  The condition was that I had to dis-assemble it and restore if BEFORE I rode it.  I came up with $37.50 and my life of restorations began.  Now 58 years later I'm still thankful for my fathers rules, he was a smart man and it made me a responsible driver and owner of more than 100 vehicles in my life.  While I work hard to keep 5 cars ready for the next tour, maybe I could squeeze in another.

Yes, I'm looking at another project and questioning my wisdom in doing so, but I know I'll enjoy it.  The next one will be one of the newest ones and I hope to use it for the Sentimental Tour (for 1928-1958 cars) because it would be nice to drive an antique to and from a big tour.

[60FlatTop]

I am a firm believer in component restoration. I don't want to take a car apart and reassemble it. Each component or system; generator, brakes, cooling system, and so on comes off and given the full treatment. Downtime of the car is days and not years and my personnel goal, since 1984 has been to own cars in the condition of a well maintained 10 year old car. That is 30 years of very happy hobbyism.

 

I have three cars that can be spritzed clean and taken to a show or cruise night long distances and reliably in the "good used car" condition.

 

Two are being worked on. The '64 Riviera I bought when I was 30 needs a paint job if I take it to the 2017 Buick Nationals. It has a good amount of sand scratches, a new windshield, and the aftermarket vinyl top that made lots of people hack up hair ball s has finally been removed.

 

I am keeping an eye out for one of those octogenarian estate sales with $20,000 warming close at hand. But there is still a chance of some ragged, sorry, derelict needing $10,000 a year for the next ten years. I can't resist them.

 

To answer the first question, when I was in my early 20's I cleaned out the house of one of the elder O'Brien side of our family, one with paths through the accumulation. I told my Dad I thought she was a little nuts. He told me not to judge her until I had lived as long and experienced as many things. When I am 95 and drag home some project, I sure hope I get that courtesy from my family.

Bernie 

[kgreen]

One of the most desired attributes of human life is relevance.  A project gives relevance to those who know how to harness the necessary skills.  I would hate to know that I finished all of my projects within 3 days of my passing, as I would be bored stiff.  I suspect those three, project-less days would be the longest in my life though.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

As of today I have a plan for each of the three cars:

 

1) T Speedster - this one was bought specifically to "build" (I say build vs. restore because it is a speedster) but hopefully to a decent "restoration standard".  Yep, I know it is as rare as a Honda Accord, but I wanted something specifically for playing around with at home.  This sort of thing was not all that rare as we all know, up to say the early 80s, at least in my neck of the woods.  Very few restorations going on that are largely done by the owner but they are out there.  Other commitments have gotten in the way so it is hard to call this an "active" project right now although I am constantly looking for parts for it and planning, etc.   Worst case is it is done as a retirement project, but I hope to get on it before then - at 53 I have a ways to go there.

 

2) A Roadster - this is the questionable one in terms of direction.  Good car mechanically, excellent body - some dents in fenders but so solid - ancient cosmetics.  Short term, as it is fairly presentable and runs really well, is to enjoy.  The questionable part is what to do long term?  A high point restoration of an early '30 Standard (a lot of A friends are encouraging this due to the fact that most of these models seem to have been "deluxed") or more of a refurbishment as found with some 50s/60s touches - not a hot rod so much as what one might have seen then, more or less a clean up of it's as found shape (staying Ford maroon, wrong for a Standard, for example, white vinyl top, maybe dual carbs/high comp head, not much more..) at some point.  Then the question is how much to do at home vs. send out.  If/when we paint it, the body is so nice it deserves someone skilled to do it, but maybe the running gear is done @ home?

 

I also think, from an owner's perspective, it might be rewarding to work with a pro on some or all of a restoration project.  It is a different type of approach/involvement but I can see the merits there as well.  Again, the plan for this one is still up in the air a bit.  But in the short term, wearing out the tires is high on the list.

 

3) MB 560 SL - This car is cleaner than most, goal is to keep it maintained and original, and not restore it.  These were pretty well made for the era, last year for single stage paint on certain colors, so nice to have at least one shiny car to clean.  Drive, maintain, enjoy,wife and son can take it whenever they want, surprisingly a lot of maintenance on this can be done at home.  Best compliment I ever got on this one came from another owner of an identical car but with less than 20,000 miles on it, he comes over and looks our car over (110,000 miles) and says "My God, they don't look all that different, do they!"   - so I know I am there with this one.

 

As much as some other cars are appealing, I think for me, 3 is enough on the wallet and the time table, and I have not seen anything in my budget I want badly enough to sell one or two of these.  I think part of that has to do with having goals for them even if you can't do it all in a short time frame, if that makes sense.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I just came across this picture from Fred Kanter and it is pretty obvious that restoring cars is good for you.

[DonMicheletti]

I have restored a 1910 Buick as my oldest and a 1957 Olds as one of my newest. Hands down, the early car is much simpler job (providing it is complete). The newer cars are a lot more complex and take a lot more time.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Bernie, I think I got most of my gray hair waiting on fulfillment of my parts orders from Kanters...

[F&J]

12 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

I have been taking my time looking for a project of a pre 1916 car to restore myself. But I notice family as well as friends asking how old will I be when I get it done? Also I am being asked would I not be better off buying a driver seeing it is so expensive to restore a car.

Impossible to give advice to others, because everyone is different:

 

I have a 82 year old wealthy friend who finally gave up his hobby when he built a new home in a strict retirement village association.  He is not allowed to do anything there .   But, his entire adult life, he managed to restore dozens of cars, but always started with nice ones.  He took about a year each.  Then registered it, but drove it rarely.  He would sell them and always have another project, because he liked "going to work" each day in his nice shop.  He did not love to chase missing parts like some people do....he liked working.

 

another friend does not do as good of a job, but really does like to drive them a lot, not just work on them.  So, he likes both working on things, AND getting to drive them in a reasonable amount of time. (not a decade of work on just one)

 

Some others just want a car to drive.

 

Some others have very little budget, so are forced to start with junk, and takes forever, or maybe never,  to get one driving.

 

so....which part of the hobby do you prefer?  Working on them but not stressed on a finish deadline, or do you mostly want the drivable end product with minimal work and way less build time due to your age?

 

.

[Akstraw]

A sixty-year-old man was considering buying a brass-era car to restore.  His friends said:  "Good heavens, its a ten-year project.  If you buy this car, you'll be seventy when you finish!"   He replied:  "If I don't buy the car, in ten years, I'll still be seventy."

[ron hausmann]

Joe,

i retired a little over a year ago from a very stressful but profitable career as an engineer. 

I also restore late teens and early twenties Kissel Kars as good as or better than professionals. 

Without this hobby, I would be lost as it gives purpose and relevance and something that my grandchildren really love playing around in too.

i take these cars apart, every nut and bolt, and restore each piece and panel. I sub out the engine overhaul and large body part painting to professionals, but do the rest. It takes about two years to complete a car this way to concours level, but about three years if all the wood needs to be recorded. 

I work maybe half time, and dedicate the rest of my time to wife, grandchildren, and chrch/society.

the pictures show there complete or almost restorations and the last two are originals which I only did cosmetic work on.

thanks, Ron Hausmann P. E.

[lump]

On 12/7/2016 at 10:06 AM, 60FlatTop said:

I just came across this picture from Fred Kanter and it is pretty obvious that restoring cars is good for you.

LOL. As soon as I saw that photo with the restorer wearing the wild shirt, I wondered if it might be Fred. Looks like he's still having fun with old cars. You GO, Fred! 

[Ozstatman]

You can follow Fred's progress as he restores his '52 Packard Limousine in this thread on PackardInfo.

 

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17749&forum=10

[lump]

On 12/8/2016 at 10:54 AM, ron hausmann said:

Joe,

i retired a little over a year ago from a very stressful but profitable career as an engineer. 

I also restore late teens and early twenties Kissel Kars as good as or better than professionals. 

Without this hobby, I would be lost as it gives purpose and relevance and something that my grandchildren really love playing around in too.

i take these cars apart, every nut and bolt, and restore each piece and panel. I sub out the engine overhaul and large body part painting to professionals, but do the rest. It takes about two years to complete a car this way to concours level, but about three years if all the wood needs to be recorded. 

I work maybe half time, and dedicate the rest of my time to wife, grandchildren, and chrch/society.

the pictures show there complete or almost restorations and the last two are originals which I only did cosmetic work on.

thanks, Ron Hausmann P. E.

Ron, I love the photos of your old Kissels, and I admire your workmanship. 

 

One quick question...the 2nd-to-last photo in your series shows a teal-green and black Kissel touring, with red wire wheels. A family friend named Joe Antrim here in the Dayton, Ohio area used to own one exactly like that. I wondered if this might be the same car? 

 

My parents were long-time members of the Southern Ohio Chapter of the AACA, as was Joe Antrim. When I married my sweetheart in 1974, my parents arranged a 4-car antique car parade from the church to the reception. And since the top on our family's 1923 Hupmobile was too fragile to put down, Dad asked Joe to let us ride to the reception in one of Joe's open cars. Here is a photo of us in Joe's Kissel. 

[ron hausmann]

Lump,

Wow!. Yes this is the same car! I bought it last year from a person in Ohio who was moving. There is a picture of this same car, and Joe Antrim's name, in the Wisconsin Automotive Kissel Museum in Hartford Wisconsin as well. It's an important car!

 

This car is the only surviving Kissel "Sport Tourster" of any year. There are two other non-sport models from 1920 that exist as well. Kissel introduced this "Sport" model in 1921 when they also redesigned their famous Kissel Gold Bug (pictured below). It was the sister-model to the Gold Bug. There is only one and this car, which is original with 14,600 miles, is the only one.

Do you have many pictures of it or of Antrim?

 

Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Great story, shows how these cars are a part of our lives.

[Pigmy 1960]

Hi Joe in Canada, go for it with your ears back man, never to old, buy finished and enjoy, or restore enjoy and keep the mind and brain working ( sometimes on overtime).

 I have had a 1926 REO Speedwagon for 10 years and have only just started the resto, also assisting my brother with a 27 international, love every minute I am working on them. The Reo is a big task i have a blog ( my children insisted I track it with a blog) reoresto.wordpress.com have a look and happy restoring.

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 12/6/2016 at 10:53 PM, Joe in Canada said:

... I notice family as well as friends asking how old will I be when I get it done? ...

 

You'll be a lot younger restoring a car

than if you sat around "puttering" and watching TV!

Fill your hours with a good purpose, a productive hobby,

and you'll be much better off.

[lump]

I'm certain I must have old photos of Joe Antrim. He was friends with my parents clear back into the very early 1960's, and active in our Southern Ohio Chapter of AACA. There are some very interesting stories of Joe Antrim's life. I hope I'll get a chance to meet you some day, and I'll try to recall some. 

 

I drove your Kissel a time or two, years after our wedding day. I recall it had a particularly noisy transmission, but was fun to drive. Joe had quite a few cars, but I mostly remember him driving either this Kissel or his red HCS touring car of about the same vintage. 

 

I don't know if I have other photos of the Kissel. I'll have to look around some. SOMEWHERE there are boxes and boxes of old photos from our years in AACA, CCCA, and other clubs. 

 

In the meantime, here is another pic from our wedding day. This one shows Joe at the wheel. I recall him wearing that beret that day. He also sometimes wore a "Tamoshanter" hat (spelling?) Note the rice all over your Kissel. 

 

Glad to have "met you" on the forum! 

 

Cheers! 

[lump]

PS: My pretty wife and I are still married, over 42 years later. And I still have the 1923 Hupmobile touring car that lead the parade that day. 

[ron hausmann]

Lump,

I used to have Beatle Hair like that in the seventies too!

Now my grandchildren (I have 11) play in my antiques.

RON

[lump]

LOL. Ron, these days I would be glad to have ANY kind of hair, in any color. 

 

Nice cars, and nicer grandkids. Good for you. 

[Robert G. Smits]

Joe, I am 76 and just started restoring my 23 Cad 7p touring I purchased in 1978.  My only advice is to start every day with 30 minutes at the gym.  Your chances of finishing the restoration will improve greatly.  Bob Smits.

 

 

 

[alsancle]

This has been stated directly and indirectly a few times in this thread.  Everybody needs a purpose and a reason to get up in the morning.  The car hobby is a wonderful diversion.  My dad spends 4 or 5 hours every day in the garage.  As soon as something is fixed on one car the one next to it has an issue.  The beauty of the hobby is that a 5k car or a 500k car it is basically the same thing and at either endpoint or anywhere along the middle you get the same level of enjoyment.

[39BuickEight]

I'm almost 8 years into my car.  It's a journey, but more importantly it's time with Dad.  Probably a couple more years left before the car is "done."  Thanks to some parting out of extra stuff and doing 99% of the labor ourselves, I am less than $10,000 invested, and that includes purchasing 2 cars. 

 

Craigslist ad pic from 2009:

 

 

Disassembly:

 

 

Ground zero:

 

 

Chassis/engine:

 

 

Somewhat current body finishing and fitting:

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[tomcarnut]

Ron and Lump,

 

As long time member of the Southern Ohio Chapter AACA, I knew the Kissel and Joe and Nancy Antrim well. Yes, Joe had an interesting life to say the least. I see Joe in the drivers seat at the wedding of Lump. They and the Kissel were active on tours until they moved late in life to PA. We still saw them at Hershey where they were vendors till their passings. I remember someone in club drove the Kissel down I 75 to a display down town. They engine blew but I believe but Joe rebuilt it. SOC is alive and well still doing tours. Lump needs to take some time out from his Springfield swap meet and join us in 2017 in his HUPP.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[lump]

Hello, Tom, 

 

Wow, come to think of it, our family and our old touring car have probably been to a couple of hundred of SOC tours and events, since 1962 when my parents first acquired it. And I have photos and dash plaques going back to 1957, of events we attended in our other, previous old cars. Wow, that really IS a long history, isn't it? 

 

Our old Hupmobile is finally up and running again.And we probably should bring it out to SOC of AACA again sometime before too long. Indeed, I now have grandkids who are young enough to enjoy riding around with Pappaw in our old car. Maybe this will be the year? 

 

Thanks for the invite. 

 

Jim W ("Lump")

[tomcarnut]

Jim,

 

 PM me with your e-mail and I will you added to Gauge list again. We have hosts for most months already. By way, I own the 1909 Maxwell restored in the early 1950's  by our SOC founding President, Al Lederer.

 

Tom Muth