This is what 10% ethanol did to my new gas tank in 5 or 6 years

[Pete Phillips]

Five or six years ago I restored my 1962 Dodge Polara 500, and among other things, put a new gas tank and new sending unit on the car. I was not as careful about staying away from ethanol in regular gas as I am now. Yes, shame on me, I let the car sit after restoring it--was just too hard to get it out of the warehouse where I keep some of my cars & parts.

Today I drained the gas tank and this is what I found. The brass float on the sending unit no longer exists, and there is at least a quart of rust that came out of the tank, along with 8-10 gallons of brown-colored gas.

Moral of the story: stay away from regular fuel with 10% ethanol, which is what all of the gas companies sell these days at your local pumps. 100% gas or non-ethanol gas costs $1 per gallon more than regular fuel here in northeastern Texas, but the cost and trouble of finding it are worthwhile, especially if the car is going to sit for several months.

Pete Phillips

Leonard, Texas

[Bhigdog]

EGADS!.................Bob

[60FlatTop]

48 minutes ago, Pete Phillips said:

was just too hard to get it out of the warehouse where I keep some of my cars

It's a lot easier to get the Buicks out isn't it.

[edinmass]

 

That's why it's called fuel, and NOT gasoline today. If the tank is available and not too expensive....toss that one. And seal the new one. Best of luck.

 

[viv w]

Yup, we can only buy 15% ethanol in this country. It destroys the tanks, rubber gas lines, sender units, plastic floats in carbs and on sender units, it desolves the diecast gas pump cores and carburettors, wrecks the pump diaphrams, and will eat thru the polycarbonate sight glasses on Model A and generator tanks. It also wrecks the ethanol resistant linings that you put into the tanks. Evil stuff, avoid it as much as possible.

[plymouthcranbrook]

All available here in northeast Il and southeast Wi. Is 10% and some have 15%. The last time I checked the closest non alcohol gas is about 30 miles away. If it’s still there.  Thank goodness for Sta-bil.

[avgwarhawk]

Holy smokes.  Was this car run regularly? 

[TTR]

I'd say there's likely more than one moral of the story to be considered besides the type of fuel to buy/use, one being not to let cars sit that long, another possibly about the material composition qualities of reproduction tanks.

Based on above photos, was the tank manufactured in 2015 or 2008 ?

How/where was is stored prior to purchase and installation ?

Is it possible for the corrosion already having taken root prior to purchase/installation ?

Etc, etc, etc.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[greenie]

Find non-ethanol gas, use pure-gas.org

 

Buy it. If you need to drive 30 miles to get it- there’s another reason to drive your old car.

 

Take along a 5 gallon can. Your mower, chain saw, snow blower, etc will thank you.

 

Some day we’ll realize how much of a train wreck this ethanol industry has become. They say better living thru chemistry. We need chemists now. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by greenie (see edit history)

[TTR]

If all this gloom & doom about the modern(?) fuels is so clear to many, perhaps my vintage cars, the way I’ve driven/used them for past 4+ decades, the fuel around here or wherever I traveled with my cars is all just anomaly ?

Edited January 19, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

You can typically get away with using ethanol containing fuel in any vehicle as long as it is a daily driver (or at least driven often enough to regularly use all the fuel up). If you store ethanol containing fuel for an extended time, in an antique car, lawn mower or other small engine, you can expect to have problems. I use non-ethanol fuel in my antique cars locally and when available elsewhere but have not had any problem with ethanol containing fuels on tours. If I use ethanol containing fuels on a tour, I am sure to drive the car until the tank is near empty and refill it with non-ethanol fuel before the car is going to have to sit for any significant time. I am lucky that my weather typically allows year round antique car driving.

[nickelroadster]

It is not the alcohol that causes the problem but the water that it attracts that causes the damage.

[Bryan G]

In the years now since ethanol became commonplace, I've yet to have a tankful last more than a month. Year 'round, I find a way to drive whatever car I own (can't stand to have a vehicle sit) so my gasohol never gets old. If I knew it was going to set, though, by all means I'd get the "good" stuff. That's all I run in my small engines. 

[Studemax]

Alcohol is a cleaner. All that crap in your tank came from gasoline.

[nick8086]

I could smell this 5 blocks from my house. It was very bad...

 

i never knew  that gas could turn orange..

 

I had one car it  look like chocolate milk.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

9 hours ago, greenie said:

Find non-ethanol gas, use pure gas.org

 

Buy it. If you need to drive 30 miles to get it- there’s another reason to drive your old car.

 

Take along a 5 gallon can. Your mower, chain saw, snow blower, etc will thank you.

 

Some day we’ll realize how much of a train wreck this ethanol industry has become. They say better living thru chemistry. We need chemists now. 

you may want to edit your post with a hyphen so that folks aren't redirected to the wrong website.

Pure-gas.org

 

Thankfully we have one within 4 miles  

Edited January 19, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[EmTee]

5 hours ago, nick8086 said:

i never knew  that gas could turn orange..

The orange isn't gas -- it's iron oxide.

[TTR]

9 hours ago, Studemax said:

Alcohol is a cleaner.

While it can also be used as such, but where I come from, it has always been considered, first and foremost, a “beverage” or a main ingredient of any. 😁

 

On the more serious note, original and still in use fuel tanks in my vintage cars ranging from about 65-90+ years old and while some have periodically sat, with and/or without fuel in them, for years or even decades, last time I inspected (last year) their internal appearance & condition, all looked as close to “like new” as possible, considering their ages.

 

I was particularly impressed/surprised about the internal cleanliness of my Roadster’s 90+ y.o. original tank, for which I’m planning to fabricate a replacement in the near future, but due to other reasons.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[drhach]

9 hours ago, Studemax said:

Alcohol is a cleaner. All that crap in your tank came from gasoline.

Sort of. Alcohol is also hygroscopic, it draws water from the air, just like brake fluid does. The water and the gas don't mix so you get a stratified layer. The gas is less dense than the water so the water collects in the bottom of the tank, which is exactly where his rust line is. 

 

You can clean with alcohol, but if you leave it an open container, it will attract water.  

[60FlatTop]

I'm still comparing to the way I think. You got your Buicks and then you got your Chrysler products.

 

 

[AzBob]

Ok, my experience with gasoline and old cars with vented gas caps is water can be introduced to the gas tank through the vent hole in the gas cap during conditions of high humidity and cooling off at night creating a slight flow of humid air into the gas tank. The water vapor will eventually condense and end up at the bottom. This is why some sediment bowls have a drain valve on them to drain off any accumulated water in addition to any sediments. Pure gasoline or gasohol, water can still get in. Where am I wrong?

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by AzBob (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

Wasn't it nice in the old days. Even to the early 70's some manufacturers were still providing drain plugs in their tanks. We didn't have ethanol, but we sure had some (not all) of the same problems that those pictures show. Two of my cars have tank filler necks that I can see right to the bottom of the tank, and I have been using ethanol ever since it replaced methanol as a anti knock property somewhere in the late 70's.

HOWEVER, Cars should be able to use the fuel they were designed for. -Like airplanes!

 I'll bet this topic gets moved.  

Edited January 19, 2023 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

I agree with Bryan G, about a dozen posts back.   I use non-ethenol on the cars that are used seasonally and may sit for months at a time.

When we tour like o n Glidden or Sentimental tours, we use the ethenol gas and burn it up before letting the car sit.   I have 5 5 gallon gas cans that I add Marine Stable to and marvel Mystery oil in the cans before filling them with non ethenol gas.    Small motors like chain saws, pressure washer, UTV, blowers, motorcycles, lawn tractor, all get the good stuff because I never know how long they'll sit until used again.    Marine Stabil lasts a lot longer then the red Stabil.   I sometimes use my cans for topping off my car tanks.   But here, there are more an more gas stations selling non-Ethenol gas for about 40 cents a gallon more than the ethenol stuff.   Worth the price!

[Angelfish]

19 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

...Thank goodness for Sta-bil.

What is your Sta-bil regimen?  I've had good luck using it as a preservative but was unaware if its use for ethanol. 

[Pete Phillips]

Here in Texas it's $1.00 to $1.25 more for non-ethanol regular fuel--about like the diesel price difference. They get you, one way or the other!

 

[dodge28]

Those portable Coleman gas lamps  used years ago used Naphta Gas . I saw this consumer used a small funnel to filter water out of the gas while filling the tank. Do you think such filter will remove the ethanol ? The filter element looked like felt.

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

 I use non-ethenol on the cars that are used seasonally and may sit for months at a time.

When we tour like o n Glidden or Sentimental tours, we use the ethenol gas and burn it up before letting the car sit. 

This is the right answer.

5 hours ago, AzBob said:

This is why some sediment bowls have a drain valve on them to drain off any accumulated water in addition to any sediments. Pure gasoline or gasohol, water can still get in. Where am I wrong?

You're not wrong, but it isn't the whole story. Alcohol is known to be corrosive, and also attracts water which it mixes with. This is why it was used for gas drier. The car in the original post would not have had a sediment bowl, but it has a sock in the gas tank. It is a GM sock in the picture (in a Dodge?). Anyway the holes in the mesh are really small and the entire tank becomes a sediment bowl. The water clings to more water and won't go through the mesh. You often see a similar mesh in an actual sediment bowl, up high so the gas must flow through to get out.

 

In the old days you would get corrosion in the top of a tank from condensation, and one spot rusted out right in the bottom where the puddle of water was. Usually the spot in the bottom was the only spot thin enough to go through. After the radiator shop boiled it out and soldered or welded a patch over the hole in the bottom you were good to go, the rest of the tank still being solid enough. Once in a while the top would rust out, but that was less common. Now with the alcohol, it is like having gas drier in all the time. The puddle of water in the bottom of the tank probably isn't there. The downside is everything you take apart seems to be a rusty mess all over like @Pete Phillips posted. I have to admit though, I have never seen that much sediment.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bloo]

20 minutes ago, dodge28 said:

Those portable Coleman gas lamps  used years ago used Naphta Gas . I saw this consumer used a small funnel to filter water out of the gas while filling the tank. Do you think such filter will remove the ethanol ? The filter element looked like felt.

I don't think so. I am no chemist, but I am thinking it would have to be a very specialized filter that could distinguish molecule size. The white gas filter probably stopped the water in the same way the sock does in my last post. The ethanol mixes with the water, so the water wouldn't be collecting and attaching to more water. Water in gas (without alcohol) collects in little balls that start to get jellybean shaped when they get heavy enough.

 

Probably the ethanol will go away on it's own if the container is vented like a typical gas tank in a typical older antique. The gas you are left with afterward is going to be pretty awful.

 

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

3 hours ago, Angelfish said:

What is your Sta-bil regimen?  I've had good luck using it as a preservative but was unaware if its use for ethanol. 

I use it to protect the fuel over the winter and had done so for many years. I suspect it keeping the fuel fresh has a byproduct of also helping control corrosion. I have had no problems that I know of but that said I do run my cars every year as much as I am able. I don’t think letting your car sit for several years even with Sta-Bil will do it any good. 

[zepher]

There are quite a few videos on YouTube that show how to remove ethanol from fuel at home.

I have not tried any of the methods yet but most are not very hard to do.

[pont35cpe]

4 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

Here in Texas it's $1.00 to $1.25 more for non-ethanol regular fuel--about like the diesel price difference. They get you, one way or the other!

 

Pete, i had been driving 40mi to Mead, Oklahoma the past 15yr for 100%, would buy 50gal plus filling my truck, at a time. Its now available at the Valero station, 1417 and 75, only about 5mi from home. I burn the 100% in my pickup, tractor, both motorcycles, and my riding/push mowers. Put the shit stuff in my daily driver, PT cruiser, it dosen`t sit long without being used. Price wasn`t actually that bad, considering how we`re getting raped on fuel now a days, ethanol $2.97/gal, 100% $3.45/gal

Edited January 19, 2023 by pont35cpe (see edit history)

[Studemax]

When ethanol first showed up in Wichita in the late 70's/early 80's I worked weekends at a Champlin station. Some of our customers were complaining about the ethanol, saying it was dirty fuel. As soon as I corrected them with the same phrase I used yesterday, the light would come on over their heads.

 

Yes, alcohol is hygroscopic. So is gasoline. The difference is gas will form varnish (usually orange or brown). You'll find it in your filters if you bother to look. We used to drain tanks all the time at the station and end up with a gallon or two of orange snot - the varnish. Scoop the goo out, filter what's left of the gasoline, and put it in a jerry can to use in the lawn mower. Refill the fuel tank on your driver with fresh stuff, put in new fuel filters, and be on your merry way.