To Buy An Edsel?

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I hate to ask this vague of a question on here, but the question has been brought up internally. I have always liked the quirky style behind the 1958 Edsel. My wife thinks they are ugly as sin. I have found one that is about 4 hours from me and priced at $9500. He states there are no rust holes, but I think I see one beginning on the passenger’s front fender. It isn’t anything I couldn’t handle. Other than that the body seems to be in pretty great shape, based on pictures. I have not seen the interior although he says that the front seat is ripped. A 3 year old picture shows the dash to be in good shape and the knobs not broken. I see no broken glass. He stated in the ad that the engine was rebuilt a couple years ago but runs rough and stalls. He said it is based on low compression in 2 of the cylinders. Based on the rough engine I believe $9500 is a little high. However I do not know how many of these cars are out there or what their value is. Before I travel the 4-5 hours in both directions to look at this car what are these cars known for in terms of issues and what do I look for on them? This would be my first Ford vehicle so I’m inexperienced with their quirks. This car has a column shift, not the push button in the steering wheel.

 

I hate that I have to say this but I have been disgusted many times on here by people bashing what others like. I like the style of the car, I do no care if you don’t like the look of them. And I do not want to hear “run, don’t walk” like I have in the past. We are grown ups and I am asking for grown up information. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Fleetwood Meadow
Spelling corrections. (see edit history)

[Guest]

As with women, wine and music, taste is a very personal thing.   If you like it, that's all that matters.

(I like it too)

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I agree with you Greg. The main reason for the post is to see what to look for. With a Mopar of this age I know what I’m looking for because I know what wears out. With Ford products I know nothing. I also wanted to see where the conversation goes in terms of experiences, price, and parts availability. And with the engine issue I’m trying to figure out what am appropriate price is for the car so I am not overpaying and also not insulting the owner. I think the unique face of the car is what has made me always like them. The closest I’ve seen to the grill of a 1958 is the Alfa Romeo grill. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Fleetwood Meadow (see edit history)

[Guest]

I'm not well versed at all in Edsels but they do have a solid following with dedicated clubs and forums and there never seems to be a shortage of parts cars out there.  So, while I can't speak to price, I'm sure you'll have plenty of support out there if you do make the purchase.

[Dandy Dave]

I think it is cool. My advice. Go kick the tires, Take a small magnet to check for rust patched with bondo in the normal areas. (Rear fenders, Floors, Headlight eyebrows, etc..) Take into consideration that it may need engine work but that is not the end of the world. Parts are around. If it has a good solid body that has not been extensively patched, and the interior is serviceable, then talk turkey with the fellow. If you don't take the time to go look you won't know. Dandy Dave! 

[Digger914]

Your seller is up on the high side and if the car is super right it could be worth more. Give the thing a good going over and remember the light switch is the fuse box, so look up when you look under the dash. If you find paint on the rubber seals and gaskets offer less. If the fabric is rotting and not just torn, offer less. 

 

If you do buy it, expect to be boiling out the radiator as preventive maintenance or needed service.

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

What I KNOW about Edsels? Isn't a lot, as my collector car interests are mostly prewar eras. However, I have known a few Edsel aficionados over the years.

I can't give you numbers. However, Edsels do have a value pecking order. More common and or less desirable models can be slow to sell, and likely will not bring good prices from those in the know. Edsel owners tend to love their cars, and they are usually working their way up the ladder to more rare and more desirable models! So, as rarity and desirability go up? So do prices! Year, model, condition of course! Along with trim and accessory details all play into the value of an individual car.

I highly recommend joining the Edsel club, and buying some books about the cars. Get to know them and recognize some of what makes one car worth tens of thousands, while another nice car is a tough sell at a quarter the price.

 

I do not know, but suspect the four door sedan to be fairly low on the desirability list? But I also think the hobby should be very much about the cars one likes. Understanding "value" is important to not getting seriously hurt spending too much on things nobody else will likely want later. Practically all collector cars maintain value best when kept nice, and close to like what hey were originally. Most collector cars, when it comes time to resell? A car like it was originally will appeal to the many people that want them like original. A car that has been altered to an individual's taste will only appeal to the few that like that specific alteration. That is just general advice, for almost all collector cars.

[wayne sheldon]

By the way? I like it!

[1935Packard]

I don't know the quirks well enough to comment, but I really like the style of the 58 Edsels.  Yes, they look a little weird.  But it's the weirdness that makes them so interesting!  When it comes to old cars, interesting counts for a lot, I think.   Price does sound high, but I don't know what to look for in terms of quirks beyond the usual things.

[John_S_in_Penna]

I like the looks of this example.  The curved roofline,

the pastel paint colors, make it appealing.  The fact

that it has 4 doors wouldn't hinder me in the least.

 

I think the automatic transmission without the Tele-touch

buttons is very scarce.  One of our local members 

specializes in Edsels and Mercuries, and one time that

I mentioned it, he didn't know it existed.  Yet reference

books say it was available.  Such an unusual feature can

make a good conversation piece, especially among

Edsel fans who are accustomed to seeing the Tele-touch.

 

My suggestion:  Have the seller take plenty of current

pictures and send them to you.  Ask for anything specific

that you wish--the interior, for example.  No one should

object to doing this;  and if he cannot, his friend or

relative can.  This way, you have more to decide upon

before you make the drive out to see it.

[Tom99]

Looks good, and the price is not bad. 

I think it is a car you can drive and enjoy.

[avgwarhawk]

For me the 58 is the only year I like.  The front end is very unique.  You'll always have a conversation when owning an Edsel.  Good looking car. Probably get it for $8000.00.  Hope you do. 

[8E45E]

27 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I think the automatic transmission without the Tele-touch

buttons is very scarce.  One of our local members 

specializes in Edsels and Mercuries, and one time that

I mentioned it, he didn't know it existed.  Yet reference

books say it was available. 

I believe its more common than one might think in the Ranger and Pacer series with automatics.  The Tele-touch was a cost adder on the lower line '58 Edsels when an automatic was ordered.

 

Craig

[SC38dls]

If it is truly a rust free or just minor rust you are comfortable fixing, I think the only consideration is the fact your better half is not too enthusiastic about it. Is there enough room for you to sleep in the backseat because that’s where you maybe for a while! Go for it my 38 was comfortable for a short stay. 
dave s 

Edited April 26, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[63RedBrier]

Hi, Fleetwood!  I love the color of the Edsel pictured above!  I have a '59 Ranger 2 door sedan with a straight 6 and 3-on-the-tree manual transmission.  I'm surprised how easily this combination moves this big car down the road.  I bought it because it was a 2 door when most Edsels seem to be four doors.  Also, the manual transmission seemed odd to me.  Definitely spend the time to go look at the Edsel in person!  I just looked at 2 Franklins this past Friday and while both looked pretty good in the photos, a personal visit told me otherwise!  Good luck with your decision!  (another) Greg  

[60FlatTop]

My first thought would be if I could get $6500 for it if I made a total blunder on the purchase and had to sell it to make it go away. Years ago I decided on the $3,000 risk factor based on my available cash and a little bit because the Simon School of Business gets about that for a three credit class. I saw a relationship in financial knowledge that might be gained.

 

The wife thing could be more important than you think. Ask he specifically what she thinks is ugly. If it is the grille you might want to back off. There are a few descriptions out there. My wife has a necklace that has some similarities to that Edsel grille and she hasn't worn it since I made a couple of remarks I thought were humorous.

 

Another point is the background. Looks like a nice well maintained neighborhood. People in neighborhoods like that tend to have nice things that they treat well. It doesn't look like the owner is going to refer to the car as "My whip". That's a good thing.

 

Edit: It really needs some 2 1/2 to 3" whitewalls. There's a thousand bucks right off the bat.

Edited April 26, 2022 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[kingrudy]

If I read this correctly, 2 cylinders have low compression and a rebuild is in order. I would get all the information that you can to see what the rebuild would cost and the availability of parts. Has the seller already adjusted the price based on the need for a rebuild? Repair of the seat wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, if I liked the car. It is a nice looking car and I don't think that you would regret buying it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[58L-Y8]

Although it looks good in the photos, there is no substitute for an in-person inspection.  Unique styling and design details are the primary reasons to buy an Edsel.  Otherwise, they are part and parcel the same Ford F-E (Ranger & Pacer) or Mercury M-E (Corsair & Citation) platforms so have the same problems of any FoMoCo. car of those years.  Fortunately, clubs, parts and service advice support are readily available.   Edsels were being picked up as collector cars in the 1970's, have a good survival and preservation rate. 

 

Best advice is to join the Edsel club and the local region(s), get to know the members and their cars.  Examine a lot of cars to learn, perhaps drive some if the other members offer the opportunity.  Every collector has too many, will offer you a better car at a reasonable price because they like to see their cars go to individuals with a genuine interest in the marque.  Good luck with your pursuit and purchase.

[1912Staver]

A friend bought a very decent , very long term storage { sleeping since about 1967 }, 1958 Pacer convert. last year for around the same $. It needs work. But really not very much, original black paint is quite usable as is for HPOF, very little rust ( almost 0 , I have had a close look all over the car } Interior  needs some work but still quite presentable. Top really needs replacing.  But overall  a much better longer term value. He looked for a long time before finding this one, owned and sold a couple like the one you are looking at in between. I know which one I would want to own.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Billy Kingsley]

If you post the vin info on the Edsel Restoration and Preservation society Facebook group, you'll get all kinds of information including how many were made and how many are documented to survive in that exact color scheme/with those options. I recommend the group. They are very dedicated and can help with any questions you may encounter. 

 

The price is high. Edsels in that condition (flaws in engine and interior, 4-doors, which I prefer but most don't) is usually $6500-5000 or less. It presents well in pictures so if the other problems were fixed it would likely be closer to the asking price. 

 

There are of course Edsel specific parts but mechanically they share parts with other Ford and Mercury cars of the period. Edit to add: the hood ornament and the side mirror housing are known problem areas but from what I can see here they both look good. 

 

While I don't own an Edsel yet it is on my "bucket list" to do so. 

 

Edit two: check the sills under the doors. They look wavy to me but that could be the trick of the picture...or it could be a sign of repair work.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Billy Kingsley (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

I like Edsels. The controversial 1958 styling has actually worn well, better than some of the more iconic 50s cars (to me anyway).

 

The utterly conventional engineering that turned people off once the overhyped ad copy was exposed actually works to Edsel's advantage. Sharing most of the parts and engineering with its Ford and Mercury siblings means an Edsel is comparatively easy to live with.

 

I got over the four-door stigma years ago. A nice old car is a nice old car, and Ford's late 50s four-door rooflines beat the hell out of GM's which look stodgy in comparison. I guess there are only a few ways to make six-window styling look sleek.

 

I honestly have no idea of Edsel values or appropriate pricing, but educate yourself on Edsels and if you like the car, negotiate a price fair to you both.

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I have always liked 4-door cars over coupes, which puts me in the out-crowd. The bigger the car the more important I feel driving it. All of the most important figures in my life alway drove big cars. I own a ‘52 Cadillac 75 series to prove that. The nada value of this car is right where the guy is asking. However they don’t have great qualifying tiers: just low, average, and high. With an engine that is acting up it’s hard to consider that average, but I can’t consider it low either based on the body. I emailed the seller again and asked for specific pictures. He hasn’t been good at providing those things but we will see what he comes back with. If I didn’t have to cross 3 states I would just drive there for a day trip and see what it looks like but that distance requires some previous planning. 

[Terry Bond]

Buy it and tell us what you think.

Terry

[Fleetwood Meadow]

1 minute ago, Terry Bond said:

Buy it and tell us what you think.

Terry

Thanks kind of where I keep leaning. But I don’t want to overpay and I’m no haggler so based on everything said where do I stand on price?

[Terry Bond]

Billy's advice is solid IMHO.

Terry

[joe_padavano]

A few more general comments:

 

If you see any rust bubbles at all, the rust is worse than you think. Pinholes mean that the whole area is paper thin and in need of replacement.

If the car is a repaint (and I suspect it is), check very, VERY carefully for older repairs under the paint.

Low compression in two cylinders means that the motor needs a valve job at a minimum, and likely a complete rebuild.

Inspect the acres of chrome. If the trim requires replating, it will be expensive.

Correct upholstery materials are likely not readily available except from specialty vendors like SMS. Be sitting down when you ask for a quote.

The MEL motors (Mercury/Edsel/Lincoln) are similar to Ford, but not the same. I'm no expert, but you should investigate parts availability.

If you are not personally well-versed in this model and it's quirks, bring along someone who is. It also helps to have an uninvolved second opinion when evaluating a car, as one tends to have blinders if one really wants a car.

 

Good luck.

[pkhammer]

5 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

If you post the vin info on the Edsel Restoration and Preservation society Facebook group, you'll get all kinds of information including how many were made and how many are documented to survive in that exact color scheme/with those options. I recommend the group. They are very dedicated and can help with any questions you may encounter. 

 

The price is high. Edsels in that condition (flaws in engine and interior, 4-doors, which I prefer but most don't) is usually $6500-5000 or less. It presents well in pictures so if the other problems were fixed it would likely be closer to the asking price. 

 

There are of course Edsel specific parts but mechanically they share parts with other Ford and Mercury cars of the period. Edit to add: the hood ornament and the side mirror housing are known problem areas but from what I can see here they both look good. 

 

While I don't own an Edsel yet it is on my "bucket list" to do so. 

 

Edit two: check the sills under the doors. They look wavy to me but that could be the trick of the picture...or it could be a sign of repair work.

    Billy X2.

  I too think the price is optimistic considering the issues the owner admits to. If the car was turn-key ready he'd be in the ballpark maybe. An engine that was rebuilt a couple years ago should not be suffering from low compression. The issue could be valves or a bent pushrod(s) or something more serious. MEL engines are not inexpensive to rebuild. Look the car over really good and if everything else checks out to your liking offer somewhere in the $5-$7K range so you have room to make repairs.

[Marty Roth]

6 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

Billy's advice is solid IMHO.

Terry

Mine, too !

 

It appears to be the "Ranger" series.

The two upper series of Edsel were Corsair and Citation, and were based somewhat on the more similar Mercury.

The lower series Pacer and Ranger were derived in part from Ford rather than Mercury cousins.

 

Mechanical parts availability will be somewhat enhanced by FoMoCo siblings.

Body and trim are another matter.

I would start at, or even below $5,000, considering the mechanical, and interior issues, and that it is a "Lower Series" 4-door sedan.

You can always negotiate upward, not downward on what you want to pay.

 

Good luck with your quest, and buy something really nice for your wife. Wait to take her out for as special evening after the Edsel is proven, and doesn't smell of cigars and old men.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

Don't lowball the seller! Nothing riles me more than some wanker offering 50% of asking price. I usually block them or tell them to forget it in less friendly terms. I refuse to answer an idiots reply "Gee I had to start somewhere"

 These are a cool car. Basic Ford so they are quite robust in that era. The MEL 400 is a decent engine, not difficult to work on. The chassis, brakes, suspension parts are easily obtained and affordable.  If you like it make a deal. It may be stuck rings or stuck valve causing low compression. If it's not rusty underneath, the rest of it is easy stuff.

 I like Edsel's, if I could find a 1960 with the Starliner roof..........

[Rivguy]

I'll second the Wife aspect. You know her, will she just say "I think it's ugly" shrug, and not mention it again. or will she say that it's hideous and she will never ride in it? And leave it at that. Or will she be complaining about it all the time, chipping away at you continually? 

Sometimes certain things really can upset women but I'm sure you know how your Wife will react.

 

My Wife has been pretty cool over the years, she did not like to ride in my really old cars, but we always had a newer, nicer family car. My Wife had a thing against old, two tone pick up trucks, I told her that I would have my '66 Ford painted a solid color shortly after I bought it. Like a week after!

 

I think that early Edsels are pretty cool and interesting in the "Turnpike Cruiser" kind of style. The price sounds high to me, especially with the engine problem. You are investing a lot of time and expense in going to see the car so you are obviously a serious buyer.

 

On the other hand, there aren't a lot of people looking to buy an Edsel, so that is a point in your favor.  I've got three cars that I would like to sell right now, with no interested buyers. I have sold lot's of cars on CraigsList and have had many flaky, irritating, people contact me. A buyer can offer any amount they wish, of course they can be diplomatic about it. Or not. Sometimes it's not about how much a car is valued on a price guide, it's how much the car is worth to you. It could more than the stated value, or less. You might feel that  car like that is only worth 5,000 dollars - to you. Generally I would not even go to  look at a car that was priced at twice as much as I felt it was worth to me. However buyers have their reasons for selling and sometimes are very motivated. Good Luck.

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Ed Luddy said:

Don't lowball the seller!

I agree, Ed.  I typically don't even call unless I think

the asking price is within negotiating range.

 

Treat the seller sincerely.  Find out about the car,

patiently listening as he describes it.  Don't start out

sounding disrespectful by saying, "What's the least

you'll take?"  Maybe he'll volunteer some lesser price

or give an indication.  Tell your sincere intentions for

the car.

 

You could mention a price range you were thinking of.

If you feel his expectations are too high, ask him to

keep your number and call you:  "I'd still be interested

if the asking price changes."

 

And keep a copy of his ad.  The car might sell to

someone else, but there will be others.  Or he might be

thrilled if the car is unsold and you call back to

check in 4 or 6 months.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Ed Luddy said:

I like Edsel's, if I could find a 1960 with the Starliner roof...

A local man I know has a 1960 Edsel 2-door hardtop

with that sweeping roof.  He also has a matching 1960

Ford 2-door hardtop.  Both are red, and he can show

them together for an interesting display.

[wayne sheldon]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:37 PM, Fleetwood Meadow said:

He stated in the ad that the engine was rebuilt a couple years ago but runs rough and stalls. He said it is based on low compression in 2 of the cylinders.

 

That is one of those nasty could be a disaster or could be the nothing that great deals and lots of wonderful times are made of?

Many years ago, I had never worked on modern Fords, but was used to modern Chevrolets. A neighbor had an older (mid 1960s) Ford motorhome he wanted rid of.  It had an overhauled engine (not a full rebuild), and a rebuilt transmission. It barely ran, and had very low compression on a few cylinders. His son had done some of the work on it, and the neighbor had reached the point of just wanting rid of it. He offered it to me for a very good price. I figured I would be okay even if I had to replace the entire engine and transmission. At the time, my wife wanted a motorhome for traveling and family use.

So, I paid the money, and started checking it out. Turned out, the son had messed up the timing, and had three cylinders wired out of proper sequence. So in thirty minutes I had it running pretty well. But it still had very low compression on a few cylinders. What I did not know at the time, was how differently Ford and Chevrolet handled over-head valve adjustment! And, obviously, neither did the neighbor's son. He had put the top of the engine together, after machine work had been done to it, and just tightened the bolts and rocker arms down tight. The reason the compression was low, was that the random placement of the push rods coupled with the heads being milled slightly had several valves not closing completely! That took a couple hours to fix. After that, I had one sweet running older motorhome for a couple years!

The flip-side story, a few years earlier. I got a good deal on a 1966 Chevrolet pickup that had a recent engine rebuild. One of those where EVERYTHING was replaced whether it needed to be replaced or not! To me? THAT has always been a red flag! If someone replaces everything in sight? It is likely he doesn't know how to tell a good used part from a bad one? Why should I expect he should know how to put it together correctly? But the price was right. So, I took a chance with it. Oh, I drove it for six years. It blew the head gaskets, it blew the manifold gaskets, it burned valves and blew out the new head pipe. It leaked everywhere, and the rings failed. I had decided to replace the engine when someone wandered by and said "nice truck! Wanna sell it?" I explained how bad it was, and he said he could fix it. He offered me almost what I had paid for it six years before, so I said goodbye to that pickup!

 

Someone messes up on an engine because they don't really know what they are doing? You never know at first. It might turn out to be a minor fix and be wonderful? Or, it might be a disaster?

 

Whatever you decide? Good luck!

Edited April 29, 2022 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Wayal... I had thought about such a scenario too but glad Wayne went there first!😏

 

I think it was someone on here made the observation "there's Chevrolet, and then there's the way everyone else does it"!

 

See if you and the seller can find common ground. One of my favorite styling cues on 57-59 Ford products is those narrow stainless window frames on Fairlane Club and Town Sedans. Those are not only distinctive, but just nice.

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I asked the guy for a couple specific pictures and asked if the engine was rebuilt during his ownership or prior. I am still waiting on the response. Something is gnawing at me he isn’t going to respond. I have really enjoyed the conversation so far. The knowledge and experience being brought to the table is why I like bringing things onto this forum. And since the key people that I have had words with in the past about not saying unproductive things haven’t choked in, it’s been a really successful thread. Thank you everyone for all that has been said.

 

In response to Billy and Terry’s inquiry about the VIN, the car was #76 out of the San Jose plant. I have traced 3 past owners. 

[1937hd45]

Be sure to check for unauthorized accessories. 

[8E45E]

11 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

A local man I know has a 1960 Edsel 2-door hardtop

with that sweeping roof.  He also has a matching 1960

Ford 2-door hardtop.  Both are red, and he can show

them together for an interesting display.

All he needs now to complete the set is a 1960 Meteor Montcalm two-door hardtop. https://classiccarcatalogue.com/METEOR_1960.html

 

Craig

[pkhammer]

14 hours ago, Ed Luddy said:

Don't lowball the seller!

I wouldn't suggest just throwing out a lowball offer either. If you do go look at the car and like it then tell him you'd be a player if he gets the cars issues fixed. Chances are he knows that could be costly and won't want to put any more money into it. At that point you may both agree that to have the car fixed could potentially run into thousands of $$ and in order to take that on you (as the buyer) need to make allowance for that cost. If he won't budge then you have a decision to make. The owner obviously knows there are issues with the engine and he may work with you and come to an agreement you both are happy with.

[Marty Roth]

13 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Be sure to check for unauthorized accessories. 

This photo and comment should be used as a part of AACA Judging School

[Bloo]

17 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

What I did not know at the time, was how differently Ford and Chevrolet handled over-head valve adjustment! And, obviously, neither did the neighbor's son. He had put the top of the engine together, after machine work had been done do it, and just tightened the bolts and rocker arms down tight. The reason the compression was low, was that the random placement of the push rods coupled with the heads being milled slightly had several valves not closing completely!

Yes. Assuming it has hydraulic lifters, and it probably does, Lifter preload is adjusted by selective length pushrods on these engines. Additionally head milling and other factors like rocker arm and shaft wear wear can lead to you needing a pushrod or two that are not standard selective lengths. There is a company in Oregon I believe who will make you any length you want. I bought about 5 non-standard pushrods from them to help sort out the lifter preload on a 390 Ford. I will be happy to look for the contact info if needed.

 

Several people have mentioned the MEL engine. On first look I also thought it was an MEL engine. I now believe it is an FE engine, which should make parts availability a little better. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about that.