95Cardinal Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Oh my goodness... https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2022/03/17/barn-find-1925-pierce-arrow-minnesota-basement?refer=news&utm_source=edaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2022-03-17 Edited March 17, 2022 by 95Cardinal revised title (see edit history) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Interesting...I have two comments about the article though. There is nothing "unique" about the wood-framed body. It might be unique it it wasn't wood framed.. And, are PA fenders "cast aluminum"...I rather doubt that but I've little experience with them so I'll let better qualified people say. Those would be fairly minor errors were it not in Hemmings which presents itself as THE antique car publication. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Oh, Hemmings, why don't you know better? Left side of the flathead six-cylinder engine, with all wiring still intact. The large vessel on the right is an oil reservoir. The intake manifold above the updraft carburetor apparently draws oil from it via vacuum. 4 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Cardinal Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Oh, Hemmings, why don't you know better? Left side of the flathead six-cylinder engine, with all wiring still intact. The large vessel on the right is an oil reservoir. The intake manifold above the updraft carburetor apparently draws oil from it via vacuum. Yeah, I immediately added a comment about that, but it hasn't been approved by the moderators yet. I can't believe Hemmings made that error! 😲 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Further confirmation that Hemmings has gone down hill pretty far...I missed that howler but I wasn't looking carefully. It's all well and good that we notice things like this but the average reader is going to PRESUME the author knew what he was talking about and it's clear he was unqualified to write this. Edited March 17, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryLime Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 The author of the Hemmings article has never seen a pre war car before viewing this Pierce . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Oh, Hemmings, why don't you know better? Left side of the flathead six-cylinder engine, with all wiring still intact. The large vessel on the right is an oil reservoir. The intake manifold above the updraft carburetor apparently draws oil from it via vacuum. Pierce Arrow with the optional Diesel engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 We are waiting Ed (inmass)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Gunsmoke said: We are waiting Ed (inmass)! I think I can answer this for him: "Parts car!" 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Why do I just know that Ed was the kid who jumped on the hose at the gas station to ring the bell and irritate the attendant ? 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, JV Puleo said: Interesting...I have two comments about the article though. There is nothing "unique" about the wood-framed body. It might be unique it it wasn't wood framed.. You have to read the whole sentence: "Pierce-Arrows were unique in that, though they were built on a wooden frame, the body metal including the fenders was made of cast aluminum." I'm sure you're well aware that most cars were skinned with sheet metal. The Pierce was unique in that the metal was cast aluminum. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, 95Cardinal said: Yeah, I immediately added a comment about that, but it hasn't been approved by the moderators yet. I can't believe Hemmings made that error! 😲 I can ! Far too many errors lately, and they've lost some good people lately. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwells Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 My question, because I don't know off the top of my head, is when PA stopped using cast aluminum main body panels. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they ever used cast aluminum fenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 WP, said "The Pierce was unique in that the metal was cast aluminum.". I never knew that, was it cast or formed? Casting fenders in aluminum would be a challenge. I understand Minerva's (Belgium) had cast aluminum doors and other aluminum parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwells Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Marty Roth said: Far too many errors lately, and they've lost some good people lately. Ditto on both counts. That Pierce piece should be embarrassing to Hemmings on multiple levels, but they're probably are oblivious to that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 You guys are way too critical, LOL. Its not a bad article, so they got some of the details wrong. No harm no foul. People that really know the truths, do know better. If one doesnt know, it really isnt going to matter anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Why are you guys surprised? HMN jumped the shark years ago. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 My oh my.... I've known of this car for some years but have never seen it in person. The article would have benefited from having it run by someone who knows Pierce-Arrows. See the cars listed below my signature for my qualifications. This is a Series 80 Coach Series with flat roof (vs. domed for the $650-costlier Deluxe series), one-piece windshield (vs. 2-pc), squared quarter windows (vs. radiused), wood-grained steel window mouldings (vs. mahogany), etc. The misidentification of the vacuum tank has been corrected but jumped out instantly. Also: "...they were built on a wooden frame, the body metal including the fenders was made of cast aluminum." Pierce last used *cast* aluminum body panels for its 1920 models. All Series 1921-1928 used sheet-aluminum panels over ash framing for bodies, but fenders, hood, and splash aprons were steel. Unlike Franklin, Pierce did not use wooden frames; only the body skeleton is wooden. "...the optional factory slatted grille that could be closed in extreme cold, in order not to freeze the radiator." The Series 80 Salesman's Data Book indicates that a Pines winter front with thermostats was standard equipment for these cars. These were usually discarded when the cars were a few years old and are not frequently seen today. I found one in its original box at Hershey 25 years ago and it's a wall hanger in my shop today. The Pierce-specific round brass disc on these has an outline of the front fender headlights and radiator shell. You can buy a good running, pretty presentable, sorted Series 80 sedan for about $20-25k. Of course @edinmass will want to make it a parts car--but I think it would be a good entry-level project especially for a father and son team. This is far from a gold mine for the owner, who should bear the cost of extraction. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, TAKerry said: You guys are way too critical, LOL. Its not a bad article, so they got some of the details wrong. No harm no foul. People that really know the truths, do know better. If one doesnt know, it really isnt going to matter anyway. Kerry, the issue for many of us is that HMN was THE BIBLE of the hobby for years. You would wait by the mailbox for the postman to deliver your copy and pay extra for the early delivery. Some of the forces that have destroyed it were outside of their control, but a lot were well within the control of the leadership. They just wrecked it. Also, I still have a hair across my butt over their crappy show. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 And I should add for anyone interested in the car....the Pierce-Arrow Society has a huge amount of technical information on these cars as well as members with vast stores of usable parts. My S80 sedan acquired in 1994 in similar condition had been in repose for only 15 years and came back fairly easily. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, West Peterson said: You have to read the whole sentence: "Pierce-Arrows were unique in that, though they were built on a wooden frame, the body metal including the fenders was made of cast aluminum." I'm sure you're well aware that most cars were skinned with sheet metal. The Pierce was unique in that the metal was cast aluminum. I was using "frame" in the sense of the body. It never occurred to me that the numbskull would think it had a wooden chassis... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34LaSalleClubSedan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) maybe a Franklin guy wood-would think that statement above Edited March 17, 2022 by 34LaSalleClubSedan (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JO BO Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Others also...My early Maxwell has an oak frame as does my Kiblinger and International high wheel sure there are others Edited March 17, 2022 by JO BO (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I have to laugh when I read such statements as "It would only be a parts car" or "no one will ever restore that car". If I listed the cars we have professionally restored in the last few years or the cars in our shop now you would be surprised. After 40+ years I thought we would never be paid to restore another Model A or T because of the cost to restore vs the value on the open market yet 2 years ago we finished a total frame up resto of a Model A 4 Door Sedan and are currently well into the complete restoration of a T Touring amongst the more "valuable" cars in the shop. Folks have cars restored for many reasons but seldom, if ever, is it in hopes of financial gain. Once again I encourage everyone to "Beware the Philistine who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing". 6 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flivverking Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) There are/were 3 "80" PAs in just about the same condition in Connecticut for sale in the past year and half. ..All put up, 60 plus years ago.Nothing new about that situation. Their 5 figure price tags get not much interest . I did offer 6,500 for the best one ,because I felt sorry it..the owner was such a big shxt! He said "are you effing kidding me ! It's a Pierce Arrow.." I said" I know...If it was a Model A, I'd would offer you 7,500.. Now I now what the color "puce" is ,first hand. Edited March 17, 2022 by Flivverking (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Gunsmoke said: We are waiting Ed (inmass)! Soon to be floor sweepings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
63RedBrier Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Looks like the PA is holding up pretty well considering the standing water and dampness! I wonder if that water is always around or a seasonal thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 If that is the exit from the tomb, and they plan on keeping the building the exit cost will be more than the car is worth outside on the street. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: If that is the exit from the tomb, and they plan on keeping the building the exit cost will be more than the car is worth outside on the street. The post can be temporarily moved. General rule of thumb is that a beam can cantilever about 1/3 of its length…so it would depend on how far back a post would need to be placed and how long the beam is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 A trellis beam with a post on either side of the opening would work well to hold the floor joist beam. Just need to be sure the height clearance will work. I would do the mechanicals to make run and road worthy then drive the wheels off it. It would be a fun car to own at least until Ed got his hands on it! dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Call the Pickers - they'll get it out! 🤣 Despite the glaring errors in the article, it's a neat car with a cool story. But since we're nitpicking, I suppose this... could be called a "passenger assist rope". But I've always heard it called a robe rail, for hanging blankets (aka "robes"). Maybe the author has no experience with heater-less prewar cars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, CHuDWah said: Call the Pickers - they'll get it out! 🤣 Despite the glaring errors in the article, it's a neat car with a cool story. But since we're nitpicking, I suppose this... could be called a "passenger assist rope". But I've always heard it called a robe rail, for hanging blankets (aka "robes"). Maybe the author has no experience with heater-less prewar cars. I think it's pretty obvious that the author has no experience with any aspect of pre-war cars. As someone has already noted...he's probably never seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 WP opined "rule of thumb is that a beam can cantilever about 1/3 of its length". Dangerous rule of thumb in my experience and not supported by normal good engineering. Any cantilever is calculated on a wide range of factors, loads involved, beam dimensions/shape (more height is always better than width) and material, tail weight, buckling implications, point loads versus uniform loads (beam may have a large point load at end) etc. In normal wood framing, a cantilever is usually limited to twice the depth of the beam/joist. and normally you want at least 4 times the tail weight/length as the cantilever (i.e. a 10 foot long 1x12 joist can cantilever 2' max.) The total deadweight loads (not including live loads)in circumstances like those being faced here are much higher than most people guess, typically several tons depending on what is above the floor, so caution is the word, leave any shoring/temporary supports to professionals. JMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 It is a neat car! Although the 1925 series 80 I had was the more deluxe model, it was similar to this color, and this car reminds me of it. Ours had mohair interior and seemed much more elegant inside. It might be nice enough for the wife, once cleaned up a bunch. Now if I could just afford to get it, and get it across the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 12 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Oh, Hemmings, why don't you know better? Left side of the flathead six-cylinder engine, with all wiring still intact. The large vessel on the right is an oil reservoir. The intake manifold above the updraft carburetor apparently draws oil from it via vacuum. Guys, I believe that container is actually the vacuum fuel Pump and NOT for oil or am I simply stating the obvious?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, RAH said: Guys, I believe that container is actually the vacuum fuel Pump and NOT for oil or am I simply stating the obvious?. Yes, and yes 🙂 !! That issue was addressed early on in this thread and HMN quickly made a correction on the basis of comments to their article, echoed here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 hours ago, JV Puleo said: I think it's pretty obvious that the author has no experience with any aspect of pre-war cars. As someone has already noted...he's probably never seen one. Guess my sarcasm was too subtle. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRA Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Also declaring chrome plating only for 1930’s cars is other mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 20 hours ago, Gunsmoke said: We are waiting Ed (inmass)! Sorry.....road trip to check out another White! Visited four collections yesterday. All very nice, only could take photos of the car I drove.......... 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 It came down to a choice between a Rolls-Royce or a Pierce-Arrow. Paul Willard was intensely patriotic. He would have an American car. You guys are blind! Let's see.........ROLLS ROYCE of America in Springfield Massachusetts made American cars......last time I checked. 1921-1933 As far as Hemmings......I stopped getting the magazine back in the late 1990's........ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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