White walls vs. Blackwalls

[Buick35]

My tires will need replacing in the near future,not because of tread wear but because of cracking. They're probably at least 40 years old. They're on a 1935 Buick and they're wide whitewalls. To keep it more authentic were black walls used more in the 30s or white or is it just a personal preference? I think old vintage movies with cars in them had black walls but I could be wrong. Most restored cars of that era seem to have whitewalls. Thanks,Greg.

[46 woodie]

Another consideration is that if you have your car judged, you can have points deducted for whitewalls, if the car did not come with them. I have a 1946 Ford Station wagon and it wasn't available with whitewalls. I don't care however, I like the look.

[Skylark4367]

In street scenes from Laurel and Hardy, Our Gang and the Three Stooges from the '30s, most cars have black-wall tires.

[DonMicheletti]

On a Buick it would depend on the series. in my opinion. The small series, like a special or 50 blacks because it was at the low end of the line, while a Roadmaster or 90 would be whitewalls because it was at the high end. However, I have seen a lot of old photos where even high end cars, like Packards, have blackwalls.

In my case the Special has blacks and my Roadmaster has whites.

Just personal preference

 

[padgett]

Originally the rubber was white and then they started coloring them black because they didn't look dirty and for style. Then they started trimming a band of the black to create whitewalls since the underlay was still white. Then they became narrow and wide and multiple (General Dual 90s).

 

And if incorrect but you like white, I'd get a set of portawalls and remove for show.

[Pfeil]

28 minutes ago, Buick35 said:

My tires will need replacing in the near future,not because of tread wear but because of cracking. They're probably at least 40 years old. They're on a 1935 Buick and they're wide whitewalls. To keep it more authentic were black walls used more in the 30s or white or is it just a personal preference? I think old vintage movies with cars in them had black walls but I could be wrong. Most restored cars of that era seem to have whitewalls. Thanks,Greg.

 Both are correct, It's a matter of preference.

[mercer09]

Many dealers in the mid 30s, offered whitewalls as an option. totally your choice. all depends on the car in my opinion, but I am going more and more to black walls.

[Steve Moskowitz]

On a 1935 Buick there would be no deduction in our system for whitewalls as long as they are sized period correct.  Actually, the early all white tires were not pure white (photos just appear white) they were grayish (is that a word?).  In recent years several sizes for early cars have been produced in the gray tone.  Personal preference should be your guide!

[Guest broker'bob]

this is not my car but did the same thing       black tires with bright color wheels        Enamel with a hardner    LOOKS GOOD

[Walt G]

Consider the body style and the color as well. By 1935 Buick was ( as were other cars) into fenders being the same color as the body . Earlier on , black fenders were what most cars came through with, but there were exceptions. think of the over all picture of what the car will look like and take into consideration what I have mentioned .

[padgett]

Have a vague memory of a dealer with a white wall machine. Have blackwalls and want white, no problem, just trim off the outer layer.

[bryankazmer]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

Originally the rubber was white and then they started coloring them black because they didn't look dirty and for style. Then they started trimming a band of the black to create whitewalls since the underlay was still white. Then they became narrow and wide and multiple (General Dual 90s).

 

 

 

Not sure where you heard that but it's not quite true.  Rubber is off-white (somewhat yellowish).  Still is.  The rubber compound had carbon black added because it's a reinforcing filler.  The white wall material has titanium dioxide added to made it a cleaner, more stable white compound.

[Rusty_OToole]

Blackwalls were the rule, whitewalls were rather rare. An extra cost option, and not cheap either. Owners of low priced cars like Ford and Chevrolet almost never went to the extra expense. And limousine owners were pretty conservative, and considered whitewalls gaudy and in bad taste.

 

Medium priced cars like your Buick were the most likely to have whitewalls, especially convertibles and deluxe models with other accessories.

 

Really it's a choice. Many older collectors think they take away from the car's presence but spectators seem to like them.

[padgett]

OK, whiteish. Not going to get into kelvin.

Edited October 2, 2019 by padgett (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

I vote for white walls and nothing less for a Buick !

 

Mike in Colorado

 

[Phillip Cole]

In 35 no Buick model shows up with white walls in their brochure.  By 37 they all had white walls.

[padgett]

Running change.

[Pfeil]

58 minutes ago, FLYER15015 said:

I vote for white walls and nothing less for a Buick !

 

Mike in Colorado

 

I don't know about that;

 

[alsancle]

If the car was restored in the 1980s then you must put on wide whites.   Otherwise,  use blackwalls,  it will look better and 80% of the time it is more correct.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I think AJ has actually researched outlawing whitewalls...

[Akstraw]

It seems in the last few years there has been a backlash against white walls.  Many poo-poo them as non-authentic extravagance, or not representative of the mainstream.  My observation is that, while probably the majority of cars were sold without them, manufacturers more often than not advertised their cars showing white walls.  In AACA, my understanding is that we pursue having cars presented as delivered by the dealer.  Thus, if they were available as a dealer option, then they are okay.  If they are shown in period advertising, then they should be acceptable.  My personal opinion, though, is put the tires on the car that YOU like, and the heck with what anyone else thinks.  I think they look great on my 1930 Franklin, but not on my 1922 Marmon; though in period ads, the Franklin shows black walls and the Marmon white walls.  Go figure.

[alsancle]

8 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

I think AJ has actually researched outlawing whitewalls...

 

Not true Steve.   The easiest fix you can make when you buy a car to make it look 100% better is to put the correct tires on.   I need to keep that option open to myself.   The white wall problem is as much about the crappy smooth incorrect Lester tires everybody used for 30 years as the wide white themselves.   The right width, height, tread, etc, are just as important.

 

If you are going to use a whitewall,  be sure that you are using an appropriate width for the period.

Edited October 3, 2019 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Also true with traditional hot rods.  Radials, bw, ww and even the better ones kill the mood.  Still fun to press that button.  West is worse, admittedly...

Edited October 3, 2019 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Yeah, where is West?

[Bloo]

12 hours ago, Buick35 said:

To keep it more authentic were black walls used more in the 30s or white or is it just a personal preference?

 

My dad, who lived through those times, told me that in the 1930s and early 1940s whitewalls were relatively uncommon. Those decades had the depression and the war respectively. In the depression most couldn't afford tires at all, let alone fancy tires, and those who could were less interested in flaunting their wealth than in more prosperous times. Then the war came, and rationing with it, and tires of any sort just weren't readily available  He also said that before the war, when you did see whitewalls, they were on both sides of the tire. YMMV.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Bloo (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Not true Steve.   The easiest fix you can make when you buy a car to make it look 100% better is to put the correct tires on.   I need to keep that option open to myself.   The white wall problem is as much about the crappy smooth incorrect Lester tires everybody used for 30 years as the wide white themselves.   The right width, height, tread, etc, are just as important.

 

If you are going to use a whitewall,  be sure that you are using an appropriate width for the period.

So does this mean my Denmans are correct ?

 

Mike in Colorado

[Lebowski]

12 hours ago, JetSmooth61 said:

In street scenes from the Three Stooges from the '30s, most cars have black-wall tires.

 

Go to 15:57 to see some of the cars with blackwall tires in this 1935 Stooges classic if you don't want to watch the whole thing.... 

 

 

[Buffalowed Bill]

The choice is yours, but as I've said before it's often what your per group liked when your were growing up. I've used this analogy before. If your grandfather bought a new Buick in 1948 he got black walls. Part of the reason was the war shortage, but also the mindset of the purchaser who probably saw little else throughout the Depression. When grandpa passed the car on to his son, your father, who was a Baby boomer, he without a doubt he would have put white walls on the car. When he passed the car on to you, you would have gone back to bw's. The 70's backlash against your fathers predisposition to ww's has led to a forty year step back from them. I see no indication that the trend will ever be reversed. When the Boomers are gone there will be little remaining interest in ww's. 

[mercer09]

In many cases, whitewalls signal to me..........over restoration. why I always like blackwalls.

 

like a beautiful woman- if she is beautiful, why does she need a ton of make up?

Edited October 3, 2019 by mercer09 (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

We have a '31 Cadillac V-16 Limo in the shop now. It has 9900 miles on it and still has the original tires under the sidemount covers. Surprisingly they are double whitewalls. Unusual I would think for such a formal car in 1931.

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, FLYER15015 said:

So does this mean my Denmans are correct ?

 

 

CG?  I like it! 

[padgett]

If you look at any period, including today, the really good tires - BFG, Continental, Michelin, are "relatively uncommon", is only those who actually care about the car that put the premium tires on, and which are "premium" is a variable.

 

I remember when "The Tire" was either a Firestone Wide Oval or a Goodyear Wide Boot. (guess they could not copyright "wide". And a set of four F70x14s were $100. Good thing because they only lasted 4,000-6,000 miles. on Florida shell roads. Of course back then  only made about $100/week (more after made Staff Sgt.)

However "70 series" tires were hardly the majority of the tires on the road, most were 2PR that "weren't even safe in the driveway".

 

So if you like whitewalls, go for it, dealers would install anything you wanted (my '70 GS had dealer installed Dog Bone Dunlop radials. Told him what I wanted and he installed them. GR70x15 on 15x7 wheels AFAIR. Dealer installed but far from common (had to explain what a Dunlop tire (tyre ?) was). Great in the rain.

 

Later had a lion bite a chunk out of one but is 'nother story.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by padgett (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

CG?  I like it! 

What is nice about Denman's is they have a very  correct looking tread pattern to them. What is unfortunate is that Denman tires may never be made again. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

23 hours ago, Buick35 said:

Most restored cars of that era seem to have whitewalls. Thanks,Greg.

 

If the people who bought them new had as much discretionary money as the person who restored the car you can bet there would have been whitewalls on it new. My Dad always ordered white walls when he bought a new car, about every three years. And the Deluxe wheel covers.

 

My Grandma O'Brien had blackwalls on the '36 Chevy when they lived on the farm, but she also had the lower back seat cushion on the porch so the milk cans would stand up straight. After they bought the mansion in town it was always a Buick with whitewalls. The choice is probably more utilitarian than anything else.

 

At our family picnics there were always a lot of shiny black cars with whitewalls and uncles hanging around them as far back as I can remember. And a few aunts who liked those big V8's.

 

A decade or so before my Mom died she was driving a black Buick with a red interior AND whitewalls. She heard that one of her sisters had left the lights on while getting groceries and had to have her car jumped. It was some cheap K car. I'm sure with blackwalls. My Mom said "I'd never do that. When I walk away from my Buick I look back at it and admire how good it looks. She'd do that too if she didn't drive such a crappy car. She'd notice her lights were on."

 

That pretty much wraps up my opinion on whitewalls, too. It ain't just the whitewalls. Blackwalls are a personality type.

 

Bernie

[Walt G]

In the early 1970s I had Denman tires on my 1941 Packard, tread design was fairly simple with not the more "busy" pattern of what most would feel was correct and "authentic" for a 1941 car. I also put Lester tires on my 1931 Franklin Airman when I restored it in the same time period, and again another set after 20 years when those finally wore out. Sure the Lester tires do not look "period" correct as mentioned BUT for me had an advantage - they were quiet when driving down the highway for hours on end with the windows down due to the 80+ degree temperatures.

There was a car tour on the east end of long island 40 years ago run by the L.I. Old Car Club which was a chapter of the VMCCA. A group of cars from New England joined in for the long weekend and came over on the ferry at the east end of long island. I met a fellow there who had a 1930 or 1931 Packard touring with the same tire size as my Franklin or close enough. We went for a ride in his car and for a ride in mine. We both were totally amazed how quiet the Lester tires were compared with the tires he had on his car which were more period correct tread wise. His were so noisy! wow.

I know that the old molds for the Lee tires of the early 1930s were discovered and the name changed to "custom classic" and the tries made ( perhaps by Bob Green of Bowling Green , Ohio) the Lee tires are what were fitted to Franklins and other cars when new in the 1930 - 32 era. NOISY!

the noise may not mean much to the collector who drives his car locally and only "at speed" on a highway rarely, but I used to drive my Franklin 6+ hours on highways to get to the Franklin Club meet each year before the event even started, plus the 6 hours home. With the Lester tires - very quiet, a friend in his 1932 Franklin sedan I used to ride with before I bought my car - really noisy , roaring up from the road as the car rolled along at 55 mph.

This is not an endorsement for Lester tires, but those authentic period looking reproduction new tires sound just like they did when new. Unless you have experienced this you think that is just the way an old car driving down the road sounds - not so. I would rather not put up with the noise , and have shoes on my car that not only make the car  handle and ride well but don't roar when being driven at speed. Since I got into the old cars ( ie pre WWII era) I have driven them in all kinds of weather and roads for nearly 100,000 miles.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Walt G
typo error (see edit history)

[John Kelso]

Both of these Lincoln's we sold new with double whitewalls as were most Lincoln's of the Classic era.

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

My dad, who lived through those times, told me that in the 1930s and early 1940s whitewalls were relatively uncommon. Those decades had the depression and the war respectively. In the depression most couldn't afford tires at all, let alone fancy tires, and those who could were less interested in flaunting their wealth than in more prosperous times. Then the war came, and rationing with it, and tires of any sort just weren't readily available  He also said that before the war, when you did see whitewalls, they were on both sides of the tire. YMMV.

 

 

 

My dad bought a new "C" body 1940 Pontiac 8 coupe ( same body as the Buick coupe I posted above ) with factory WW. During the war he needed tires and they only had black. After the war he went back to WW. I thought the car looked better with the black wall tires.

[C Carl]

Occasionally I see an appropriate picture of an ancient car here with a period plausible background. This on came out very good (IMHO) : 

 

 

 

[Matt Harwood]

Put on blackwalls if you like them and are keeping the car. Put on whitewalls if you want to sell the car.

A great many people these days act like they prefer blackwalls because they're "more correct," but my experience suggests that people prefer whitewalls when they're buying a car. Flashy. They always wrinkle their noses at blackwalls on a vintage car that they expect to see with whitewalls. "Why'd they cheap out on the tires?" is something I hear a lot on cars with blackwalls.

 

For me on one of my personal cars, it would depend on the car. I wouldn't have my '41 Buick Limited without whitewalls but blackwalls on those '41 sedanettes like my Century look awesome. The whitewalls on my '29 Cadillac have been a constant source of frustration because they turn brown almost immediately after I clean them, and for that reason alone I may convert to blackwalls--low maintenance. When I was looking at tires for a big mid-30s luxury car, I was on the fence because I thought blackwalls would look good, but only if I could find a set of trim rings to brighten up the dark wheels. Otherwise whitewalls would be the right choice simply because the rest of the car was so dark and it needed some contrast.

 

The right answer is to do what you like, not what others think is right. Any car in the '30s could have had whitewalls even though most couldn't afford it. That's answer enough for you to go with what you like best without worrying about being docked points or what others might think.

[edinmass]

8 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We have a '31 Cadillac V-16 Limo in the shop now. It has 9900 miles on it and still has the original tires under the sidemount covers. Surprisingly they are double whitewalls. Unusual I would think for such a formal car in 1931.

 

That was the standard tire for 1930-1931, you could have black at no additional charge. In 1932 ALL V-16 Cadillac cars came with white walls, and they would NOT supply black walls from the factory. And YES, I have factory documentation to prove it. 

 

PS- on thr Cadillac build sheet it will list tire size and black/white. So it’s possible to prove the rubber is correct. Depending on shipping date, I would expect Goodyear 700-19.

Edited October 3, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)