Curious-what does the term "Vintage" mean?

[Terry Bond]

I see it all the time - vintage car, vintage part, vintage collection, vintage estate, there are even questions about a vintage go-cart on these forums.  About all I can figure is it means the poster really has no idea of the age of an item?  I am not sure it really has any specific meaning and can be deceiving. Looking on evilbay it's often used together with another nearly useless term-"rare."

What do you think of when you see "vintage" being used as a description?

Terry

[R Walling]

Pertaining to a certain time period when the item was in it's glory.

[Walt G]

I hope to read further in the description and see something listed made pre WWII and for me that "vintage" term means at least in the 1920s.

Other misused words ( for everything) is as you state Terry - rare, very rare, iconic , patina, and used to be the words nostalgic or nostalgia.

SO to use some sarcasm one may " have some very rare , iconic running board dust and lint that is nostalgic of a vintage  car"

[Terry Bond]

I think we all have different perceptions of the time frame "vintage" might actually describe. I've seen it used to even describe modern reproduction items. 

Terry

[Rod P]

To me Terry, anything 100 years old and older would be Antique.

 

Anything 50-100 years old Vintage.

 

Anything 0-50 years Modern.

 

But they are all fluid terms that depends if you are buying or selling, amateur or serious collector. 

 

Then there would be dozens of sub categories. 

 

Like all language there will be differences. As long as all parties know what they are dealing with, all good. 

 

 

[EmTee]

I think it refers to the year that the wine was bottled. 

 

[60FlatTop]

It pretty much means they are no longer growing or making any more.

 

The word vintage was first used in the early 15th century. It was adapted from the Old French vendage ('wine harvest') deriving from the Latin vindemia ('grape-gathering'), in turn coming from vinum ('wine') and demere ('to remove').

 

First used as a 19th century variation of a keyword.

[Dandy Dave]

Ahh Yes. Vintage wine. A mere $558,000. I hope it rode home in a Duesenberg.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[TTR]

6 minutes ago, Rod P said:

To me Terry, anything 100 years old and older would be Antique.

 

Anything 50-100 years old Vintage.

 

Anything 0-50 years Modern.

 

But they are all fluid terms that depends if you are buying or selling, amateur or serious collector. 

 

Then there would be dozens of sub categories. 

 

Like all language there will be differences. As long as all parties know what they are dealing with, all good. 

 

 

This ^^, in general aligns with my interpretation and usage of the term, but it’s like any other, often used reference in our hobby, be it antique, classic, collection/collector, exotic, restored, etc, which are all very fluid and open to individual interpretations by the user terms.

Also, in my mind, the term “vintage” instead of “antique”/“classic”/etc is less likely to get pigeonholed by readers.

[john hess]

more $$$$$$

[Gunsmoke]

Terry B, I assume your primary ask is regarding the use of "vintage" when applied to old cars. Like many words borrowed from other languages or from other fields (pardon the pun), the new usage gets often immediately changed from what it was initially. Vintage is indeed a French word first used in the wine industry (Vin for Wine) and as a noun was defined as -'the year or place in which wine, especially wine of high quality, was produced". Later it was used as an adjective meaning - "relating to or denoting wine of high quality".

 

So the intent of the word is to refer to wine (or something) as "in the past, and of high quality". 

 

Now as time passes, people misuse words all the time and the original meaning/intent gets lost. A word like Vintage can take on a dozen meanings, such as old (regardless of quality), old (regardless of age), original (regardless if it is original), and applied to cars, books, furniture, music, from just about anywhere. So if I use the word in relation to cars or parts, I'm thinking old and of high quality. The rest of you can pick your definition.

 

[VW4X4]

"vintage car, vintage part, vintage collection, vintage estate"

 

In my opinion these terms are useless and are there to make the seller look like they have something to say.   All I really get out of the use of this word is "old" .     The word "restored" is driving me nuts these days.   People using this terms completely out of place in sales adds today....    Restored.....  go look at it , and some idiot stuffed a chevy v8 in it!..... 

[CChinn]

And I got criticized for using old as an adjective to describe a car in a recent post on this forum. It was a 1953 car. Didn’t use the terms vintage, collector, antique, classic, restored, original or modified. Sometimes You just can’t win😀

[60FlatTop]

Like the lady says:

 

 

[keiser31]

The term "vintage" changes with time.

[PWN]

Ha, was talking with a buddy last night and he used vintage for 1991. Ah....no. I like the term"used".

[Terry Bond]

In the UK, the terms Veteran and Vintage when associated with automobiles and related items has fairly precise meaning. Veteran cars for example are pre 1918 (end of WW1). Vintage is up to the end of WW2. Post Vintage encompasses the years following that. Over time however, use of those terms has become confusing to a newer generation. Just like the meaning of "classic car" here in the US.

Terry

[60FlatTop]

I first became interested in cars as a hobby about 1958-59. At that time most bond books as well as many softbound had their origin in the UK. There were the Floyd Clymer books, an few reprinted manuals for Ford cars, and one feature article in Motor Trend or Car Life. Outside of that a kid from a small US town of 6,000 didn't have many resources.

Most of my early learning came from those UK books and the terminology in them.

It was years before I realized Hemmings Motor News was not a British magazine. It was not among the limited selections on news stands and a term like "Motor News" certainly did not sound American to me.

Media material of American origin for cars that were not modified did not show up until the 1970s. My first 15 years in the hobby had reading material with foreign jargon to sort out.

[Pfeil]

Looking it up I get,

What is the difference between vintage and antique? Simply put, an antique is any item — whether it be a work of art, car, jewelry, carpets or everyday objects like housewares and accessories — that is over 100 years old. Vintage items are much younger, less than 100 years old, and typically have a collector's appeal. Then there is another misused term...Classic.

 

When I google what is the most popular classic car I get,

 

Top Ten Most Popular Classic Cars

• 1967 Chevrolet Corvette 427.
• 1967 Ford Mustang.
• 1957 Chevrolet Bel-Air.
• 1931 Ford Model A.                            < none of these cars are classic cars.
• 1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS.
• 1957 Ford Thunderbird.
• 1973 Ford Bronco.
• 1969 Porsche 911T.

It seems if I ask what the most popular vintage car is or popular antique car is, the question is always rephrased back to classic car.

 

The images go from this to this

 

 

 

 

When I was very young, I thought an antique car was something like this>

 

Most of my old cars I have owned since new or close to new. When they were restored or just old enough to not drive on a daily basis and were shown at club meets, I started looking for insurance. The insurance company I selected I've had for fifty years, and they call their insurance antique automobile insurance. Years ago, when I joined AACA I learned that my cars would be welcome and a part of AACA as antiques. My motor vehicle department considers most of my cars as antiques and issues plates stating such, however I see Hot Rods with antique plates on them around town all the time.

I think ALL this terminology needs to get straightened out.

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[JACK M]

"Vintage"

A special word to increase the chances of finding such in an online search.

[maok]

3 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

In the UK, the terms Veteran and Vintage when associated with automobiles and related items has fairly precise meaning. Veteran cars for example are pre 1918 (end of WW1). Vintage is up to the end of WW2. Post Vintage encompasses the years following that. Over time however, use of those terms has become confusing to a newer generation. Just like the meaning of "classic car" here in the US.

Terry

 

Actually Terry, 

 

Pre-1919 is veteran

1919 - 1930 is Vintage

1931 - 1949 is post vintage

1950 - 1969 is classics 

[Terry Bond]

35 minutes ago, maok said:

 

Actually Terry, 

 

Pre-1919 is veteran

1919 - 1930 is Vintage

1931 - 1949 is post vintage

1950 - 1969 is classics 

Ah yes - it's been many years since I've had to fill out a rally registration form in Scotland, in fact the term "classic" had not yet been invented there - there was just nothing after the late 50s and they sorta "crept" into "post Vintage."   It was long after we'd returned to the US that "classic" became common usage.

Terry

 

[1912Staver]

Yes, maok has it correct. Here in Canada I think the above time brackets are thought of as a bit more correct than just the general heading  " antique ". Except Veteran has fallen by the wayside in favor of  " Brass Era " 1915 or earlier.  With  " Vintage " starting in 1916 rather than 1918 , up to 1930.

 The English also use the term " Edwardian " to some degree. Something that has not crossed the Atlantic as far as I know. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[maok]

Imo, the vintage category is a little narrow, should be 1920 to 1939 between the wars.

[Fordy]

The Vintage Sports Car Club of South Australia was formed in 1946 so at that time a vintage car was 1918 to December 1929 build date. Therefore the "newest?" vintage car would be 18 years old. Some (most?) of the older members are stuck in time and refuse to accept that a car from the 50's is now 70+ years old and in the eyes of today's generation "vintage". The definition is therefore somewhat fluid depending on the generation you belong to.

Steve

[John Byrd]

Vintage, collectible, antique and classic are terms to use when you are selling. ..... Used and old are terms to use when you are buying, lol.

[Buffalowed Bill]

32 minutes ago, maok said:

Imo, the vintage category is a little narrow, should be 1920 to 1939 between the wars.

I don't know why anyone would care about what I think but... I tend to agree with MOAK but as I sat here I asked myself how I have used it in the past. I tend to use it for cars built between the two wars, but extend the period from post 1913 Brass Era and 1942. I have used it as a kind of generic term for everything within those years.

 

However I came to realize that I most often use it for cars built between 1913 and about 1928. That's because this era doesn't get much love and  few people even talk about it. It's discussed so little in fact that it just has never seemed to have received a name that has stuck. 

 

I tend to use the term Classic Era for the period from 1928- about 1935. As you can see don't use Classic the same way that the CCCA uses it. For the period post 1935 I generally use the term Fat Fendered.

 

Regardless I always try to know who I'm talking to. But even then I still try to define my terms in a way that I think he or they will understand. 

[nzcarnerd]

As has been noted the term vintage has its origins in the wine industry but has taken on the use of referring to a particular period or age - ie 'people of a certain vintage' will remember... etc.

 

The Vintage Car Club of New Zealand was founded in 1946 by a small group of students at the local university, one of who by the way is still with us and still active. (Initially it was the Vintage Vehicles Association). At the time their arbitrary cut-off date was 1927 being the end of the Ford T, which also tied in with vehicles owned by the members. Later as the club became more organised category dates were set up with veteran being up to 31 December 1918 and vintage from there up to 31 December 1931 (this one due to the peculiarities of the NZ market). Anything after that was on a case-by-case basis. As time went on it was felt that the club should have more coverage but, as Fordy noted above there were some members 'stuck in time', and there was quite vehement opposition to the cub accepting post WW2 vehicles. The same thing happened in the 1990s when the club decided to accept cars up to 1960. In more recent (enlightened?) years the club accepts vehicles up to 30 years old and has become 'the Historic Vehicle Authority of NZ' and works with government whenever issues relating to older vehicles come up. There are still grumpy old buggers who are stuck in time though, but it is noticeable that as many members get older they choose to drive something that is for all intents and purposes 'modern' and easier to drive and capable of staying with modern traffic. As I am sure is the same with many old car clubs the average age of members is now a lot higher than it was fifty years ago. The VCCNZ currently has nearly 9,000 members spread over 37 branches nationwide.  

 

With regard to that other much misused word - 'classic', as far as I am concerned it should never be used or even mentioned in the VCC but it is gradually creeping into usage in some branches.

 

Home Page - Vintage Car Club of New Zealand Vintage Car Club of New Zealand (vcc.org.nz)

 

This page lists the various vehicle categories - Club Eligible Vehicles - Vintage Car Club of New Zealand Vintage Car Club of New Zealand (vcc.org.nz)

[nat]

11 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

What do you think of when you see "vintage" being used as a description?

       I figure it's overpriced and useless.

[R Walling]

 Please be careful with your descriptions, please, Some of us are vintage and some of us are antique.

Take care not to insult one of us with the wrong term.

 

                                                                  

[Dandy Dave]

5 minutes ago, R Walling said:

 Please be careful with your descriptions, please, Some of us are vintage and some of us are antique.

Take care not to insult one of us with the wrong term.

 

                                                                  

I'm Both. Mostly Crochety. 😜

[hook]

Well let see! If Antique is something 100 years or more old, then why did a bunch of guys form a club called "The Antique Automobile Club of America" in 1935? There were surely no 1835 cars around. Not too many 1885 vintage ones either! Just modern ones. So should it be "The Modern Automobile Club of America"

[Paul Dobbin]

4 hours ago, R Walling said:

 Please be careful with your descriptions, please, Some of us are vintage and some of us are antique.

Take care not to insult one of us with the wrong term.

Agree,  Vintage is anyting thing old that I remember in my lifetime.  Antique is stuff that's older than me.   Collectable is anthing more than 30 years old, Used is aything newer than 20 years that's not NOS.    Umfortunatly, those of us born before the end of WWII are now antiques.  I like to call us Classics.                              

4 hours ago, R Walling said:

 

                                                        

 

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, hook said:

Well let see! If Antique is something 100 years or more old, then why did a bunch of guys form a club called "The Antique Automobile Club of America" in 1935? There were surely no 1835 cars around. Not too many 1885 vintage ones either! Just modern ones. So should it be "The Modern Automobile Club of America"

I was wondering about that too. Here is another one.

I was a member of this club until the modified guys took over the club.

[hook]

19 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Agree,  Vintage is anyting thing old that I remember in my lifetime.  Antique is stuff that's older than me.   Collectable is anthing more than 30 years old, Used is aything newer than 20 years that's not NOS.    Umfortunatly, those of us born before the end of WWII are now antiques.  I like to call us Classics.                              

 

Well yes, those of us born before the bomb are definitely antiques, maybe even classics. But there is one undisputable fact! We are definitely what you would call "unrestored" !!!!!!

[CChinn]

23 minutes ago, hook said:

Well yes, those of us born before the bomb are definitely antiques, maybe even classics. But there is one undisputable fact! We are definitely what you would call "unrestored" !!!!!!

Would you be considered “restored” if you have an artificial hip/knee replacement or similar procedure which many now have?😀 or how about plastic surgery?  Or is that considered “modified”😀

[hook]

1 hour ago, CChinn said:

Would you be considered “restored” if you have an artificial hip/knee replacement or similar procedure which many now have?😀 or how about plastic surgery?  Or is that considered “modified”😀

NO! Installing new points and plugs does not make a rebuilt engine!!! Nor is a new shift ball considered a new interior!! Plastic surgery is like a new paint job on a completely worn out wreck!

[dodge28]

It is a fluid term, means different to to different people.

[JV Puleo]

I think it's just another stupid buzz word...used to describe absolutely anything that isn't new. It means nothing...much like "classic" when applied to cars.

[Steve9]

The definition I looked up sez; “Something from the past of high quality, especially something that was the best of its kind.” I like that.