edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, SC38dls said: That’s why you never buy anything that eats while you sleep. dave s One steps on a stone half the size of a golf ball and needs to be put down............horses are easy.........have a net worth of more than 500 million, have a daughter that likes them, and she will find her husband on the field. Makes the world of cars and private jets look like Model T collecting. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 58 minutes ago, Brass is Best said: Where can you get another one? Just Because you do not like the price doesn't make something worth less. It's interesting, as a working guy who likes to collect unusual and historical objects........the few times I stepped up for things in the same way the people I work for and with do.........I came out ahead. Lesson learned, buy only the absolute best, in good condition, and don't worry about the numbers. It's a fantastic experience, and I don't regret the ten items I have done it on. That included my land I built my home on, a few cars, and other odds and ends. Some are gone now with nothing but fond memories and a bunch of cash in my bank account. Quality NEVER goes out of style. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) There's so much money out there that cars priced in the multi-millions don't even make the buyers/owners blink. When they take vacations that cost $125,000/week, a $5 or $10 million dollar automobile is a decision that doesn't even take finances into consideration. It's all about the car itself and does it measure up? It's not quite like value, but it's at least making sure that the new owner won't be embarrassed among the other billionaires should his car have a bogus history. It's like having the longest yacht--it isn't the price, it's just being a wee bit bigger than the other guy. When money is virtually infinite, how else do you measure who wins? Edited January 17, 2023 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) Ed, I’ve seen a horse go from being an Olympic level eventer worth close to 500k go to zero when it colic eating hay! Then cost another 10 grand for the operation just so you can nurse it back to health for the next year or so. That’s not moving at all just eating what it is supposed to eat. Model T’s and 38 Studebaker’s are very easy, that knowledge comes from personal experience. dave s Edited January 17, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, SC38dls said: I was at the keeneland yearling sales a few years ago standing at the previewing rail when the shak of Dubi came up next to me and within an hour spent 48 million on six yearlings. They hadn’t even raced yet. He didn’t even blink an eye and that 48 million was before the auction sur charge. It would be two years before he could even begin to see if they could run any distance or speed. Plus he would have two years of feeding, shoes ( at $500 every 6 weeks) vet bills and training on top of that cost. Talk about rareafied air. That’s why you never buy anything that eats while you sleep. dave s Huge 747s are loaded up and travel regularly between Keeneland and the Mideast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) West, the shak paid to have the Lexington airport extend its runway just so his two 747’s could land there. They had a special pad for them to park out near Versailles/Lexington road. His was the only plane to leave the country the day after 911 also. dave s Edited January 17, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 16 minutes ago, edinmass said: It's interesting, as a working guy who likes to collect unusual and historical objects........the few times I stepped up for things in the same way the people I work for and with do.........I came out ahead. Lesson learned, buy only the absolute best, in good condition, and don't worry about the numbers. It's a fantastic experience, and I don't regret the ten items I have done it on. That included my land I built my home on, a few cars, and other odds and ends. Some are gone now with nothing but fond memories and a bunch of cash in my bank account. Quality NEVER goes out of style. A good friend of mine‘s family member did very well and had impeccable taste in collecting and operated at the top of the market in classic cars. We were visiting one evening and talking about how that all came about. He said “most people buy a little bit of some thing they made a lot of. Granddad bought a lot of things they made very little of.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: There's so much money out there that cars priced in the multi-millions don't even make the buyers/owners blink. When they take vacations that cost $125,000/week, a $5 or $10 million dollar automobile is a decision that doesn't even take finances into consideration. It's all about the car itself and does it measure up? It's not quite like value, but it's at least making sure that the new owner won't be embarrassed among the other billionaires should his car has a bogus history. It's like having the longest yacht--it isn't the price, it's just being a wee bit bigger than the other guy. When money is virtually infinite, how else do you measure who wins? And that is why provenance is KING at that level. There was a time when owners of such cars bragged about how all the wood was replaced during restoration. Those cars with the replaced wood (with all original metal) are worth millions less than ones that retain all their original wood. If you watch a multi-million dollar car sell at auction for quite a bit less than one sold for earlier, you can bet that there's been some major work done.... and that's on a car that is "real" in regard to original body/chassis/engine. For me, as a driving enthusiast not competing to have the "longest yacht," a real car with some replaced wood wouldn't bother me much. That is, of course, if could even afford such a car. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Book a spot on a 747 for your car to go over the pond...........prepaid, and get bumped. Horses have priority over EVERYTHING. That lets you know what the horse business is like. When you think you have seen it all........look at the horse trading business. There are large law firms that only of things on a hoof......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) I had a flight from Chicago to Montreal that got canceled. By the time I got to the agent all other flights were booked. I mentioned I had 4 horses coming into Montreal and they would be running around the tarmac if I didn’t get there on time. The agent immediately found me a first class seat on an air Canada flight but I had to run across O’Hara terminal to make it. I got to the gate and they were holding the plane for me. I sat down and heard the pilot say the flight to Toronto would be quick and smooth. I grabbed the stewardess hand and said I’m on the wrong plane. She told me no they knew I was going to Montreal to meet the horses,so they were going to hold the next flight, but I would have to run through customs to the gate and all was arranged. I did just that never stopping at customs. Arrived in Montreal and got to the unloading dock just as the horses were coming off the plane. Never stopped at customs, went first class the whole way, all because I was picking up horses. Ed you are right they take priority over anything else. dave s Edited January 17, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leomara Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Simple enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I realize with horses we have drifted quite a bit off the subject of value of the Dietrich....but, just one story......from the blue collar, modest, horse world. That can still make your eyes sting. about 38 years ago, I was a confident 19 year old who had it all figured out (lol). A family we were close to had two daughters and I was friends with both. The older one and I had seemed to enter the grey area of "are we just friends or is there something more here?", spending more time together, both probably waiting for the other to stick their neck out and say how they felt....She was a wonderful girl and road on the equestrian team at her University. At her house one evening for what was probably the second or third night in a row, her father (a great guy) must have been observing and calculating what the status of things was. For a brief moment I found myself alone in their kitchen and her father walked up to me and stopped and put his arm around me and said "John, I just want you to know that I spent more money last year on her saddle, outfits for competition, and boarding and vet bills at school than I did on her tuition and apartment and spending money....and she will never give her horses up". With that said, he turned around and walked out of the kitchen leaving me there alone and didn't speak to me again all night. Girls and their horses. Even in small town Indiana, I had a hint of what "no limit" might mean to modest people like I grew up with. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 With all this talk of money, I hope no one here is admiring it or worshipping it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 The rarified air around money people. I had an ordinary guy who plowed my driveway during snow storms. When he wasn't available one specific day, he apologized. Seems the "money" guy he did odd jobs for was going to Europe for a couple of months with his wife. She asked if it was possible to take her favorite car (a nice Mercedes) with them (talk about over-sized luggage). They hired my snowplow driver to load it up, trailer it 1200 miles (a 4 day return trip) to an airport where it could be loaded for transport to Europe. He then had to be available to pick it up when it came back to Canada 2 months later. No biggie! Only about a years pay for an ordinary bloke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, edinmass said: I was looking at three horses the other day while trying to buy a car.......the car was 125k. 100 point CCCA classic.......the horses were 5 million plus..........each. And they were half way through their usefull career on the field. We won't even talk about holding cost and transportation to the shows. But how many owners of 100 point Full Classics get paid to introduce theirs to another similar vehicle and have them briefly share garage space to sire an offspring, potentially a future Pebble Beach BoS contender ? 😁 Edited January 17, 2023 by TTR (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said: With all this talk of money, I hope no one here is admiring it or worshipping it. Nobody here has any.......... 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 hours ago, edinmass said: Todays world record price is next years bargain. Most major collectors prefer privacy. The cars all have interesting and fantastic histories. The guy who pulls the trigger and gets the car back out on the road/show circuit deserves to tell the story. It's human nature to want to find out the details and end game. Publicly disclosing information would shut me out of garages and private treaty sales(and some collections). Big Boy Toy cars move in a very, very, small world. And deals on world class cars are often complicated with non disclosure agreements, trades, like kind exchanges, ect. So, unfortunately we often have to live with little or no knowledge of the transaction. Ed, I totally agree with your above post, I don't care who owns the car or who the next caretaker may be. What did the car look like new? I'm guessing it is a Cabriolet and not a boattail. An original photo may make it look better, and change some opinions. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I only track these cars for one reason........I may be parked next to them at Pebble. So, knowing what is out there and in what condition, it allows me to make decisions on showing cars. Most people don't understand......being competitive at Pebble is like playing football against the Patriots when Brady was there. It's a partial sport(one percent), and 99 percent business. As nice as the red car is......and let's say for sake of argument it's 100 points perfect, it can't win on any show field today. That is what color does to a car. SO any owner who buys it and wants to show it in competition is going to have to restore it again. Such is the game of the Concours circuit. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Kingsley Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Three thoughts...if that is the original color, but it can't win a major award unless the color is changed, doesn't that make it less accurate and thus less deserving of the award? Horses die after 20 years and poop constantly. I like horses, but I prefer much more than 1 horsepower. The most important question, how does one go about getting into that stratosphere? What kind of job do you need, obviously oil baron is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 If the car was the original color, it would have been sold by now. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I'm interested in some more on the color trends. I wouldn't call this inauthentic, unattractive, or polarizing color. So why would this be a killer for top awards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I have absolutely nothing in common with this thread, and certainly nothing useful to add, except enjoyment in reading the thread. Please keep it going! Jon 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 This is your periodic reminder that the world of car collecting would look probably really different if you happened to be really obscenely wealthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, carbking said: I have absolutely nothing in common with this thread That is a good observation and one I had. A few years ago I had a chance to buy a CCCA 1932 Buick Model 90 coupe that was a similar fantasy type car for me. I had the cash in my desk, much less than $4,000,000, and it would have only been a financial ripple in the flow of things. I thought about it really hard and concluded that such a car did not fit into my hobby as I have enjoyed it over the past 60+ years. It didn't fit with my house or garage. It didn't fit with my personality. It didn't fit with my other cars. It belonged "somewhere else". It was a hard decision at first. Then I pondered my thought process and ended up pretty happy I could think that objectively even with money in hand. My hobby experience has been very much the same since my teens. I buy the same cars, the same price range for the time period, and do the same amount of work myself. And I really enjoy the groove I have fallen into. Jon is right and I will continue to watch the comments and pictures, even the horse comments, until I get bored from it being beaten to death. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 36 minutes ago, bryankazmer said: I'm interested in some more on the color trends. I wouldn't call this inauthentic, unattractive, or polarizing color. So why would this be a killer for top awards? No... probably not inauthentic. It does date the restoration, though, and bright red is not great color choice for a car from the 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Are the authentic colors of the Dietrich cars known? Or are we just working backwards from black and white photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Some of us maybe red with envy that people can afford a car at that price. But the color just doesn’t do it justice. Even if my daughters horses hadn’t eaten all my money I don’t think I would by it unless you took at least three zeros off the price. Then a pack of horses couldn’t hold me back. dave s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 hours ago, edinmass said: It's interesting, as a working guy who likes to collect unusual and historical objects........the few times I stepped up for things in the same way the people I work for and with do.........I came out ahead. Lesson learned, buy only the absolute best, in good condition, and don't worry about the numbers. It's a fantastic experience, and I don't regret the ten items I have done it on. That included my land I built my home on, a few cars, and other odds and ends. Some are gone now with nothing but fond memories and a bunch of cash in my bank account. Quality NEVER goes out of style. Ed, I have done the same thing myself. When you buy something that you love the price is soon forgotten. Some things we only get one chance to buy in a lifetime. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif in Calif Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 In a way these high dollar cars are a sad indication of the world we live in. Long ago (when I was young) I owned or almost owned and drove a number of cars that would be in the millions today. Back then they were just old cars, and people who enjoyed them would actually dive them! No one does that anymore (OK, maybe Jay Leno, but he's the exception that proves the rule). If I had millions, I don't think I'd want any of them today because they have become something entirely different than what they were when they were functional. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 If you are one of those folks who is upset by collector car prices. Then you need to watch the Keenland yearling sale. Horses make cars look cheap in a hurry. However, the horse is one of Gods most noble creations and worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Is there a section on this site that I can purchase a running beat up car for less than 2,000.00? 😅 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, John Bloom said: For a brief moment I found myself alone in their kitchen and her father walked up to me and stopped and put his arm around me and said "John, I just want you to know that I spent more money last year on her saddle, outfits for competition, and boarding and vet bills at school than I did on her tuition and apartment and spending money....and she will never give her horses up". I hope this wasn't her: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-dixon-comptroller-rita-crundwell-sentenced-nearly-20-years-federal-prison-537 https://www.allthequeenshorsesfilm.com/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, Brass is Best said: However, the horse is one of Gods most noble creations and worth every penny. Seems like the horses could have been a little more help to all the king's men. Being so valuable and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said: With all this talk of money, I hope no one here is admiring it or worshipping it. Building contractor Carl, whom I worked for in the 1980's used to say: "money's only paper." And he blew through every last nickel of it, and what he didn't get to first his wife Delorisie did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 7 hours ago, alsancle said: Here is the identical coupe version for 4.1 https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ac15/the-andrews-collection/lots/r104-1934-packard-twelve-individual-custom-stationary-coupe-by-dietrich/180147 That was seven years ago………. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, edinmass said: That was seven years ago………. I understand. I was simply pointing out a similar car that sold for similar money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said: Horses die after 20 years Ha! My daughter's thoroughbred is close to 30. And still eats...👍 Lucky she does not want a replacement. Yet.😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, West Peterson said: No... probably not inauthentic. It does date the restoration, though, and bright red is not great color choice for a car from the 1930s. I hate the fire truck look too, but this seems a bit maroon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 It looks different in every photo depending on the lighting and the camera. I have seen this car in person and it is spectacular. Especially given the fact that the paint is 60 years old. I would also like to point out that it has never been disassembled to my knowledge. West mentioned provenance which this car has, but the fact it has never been apart is a pretty big deal. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I've never seen a luggage rack extension, reformed hand railing or an authentic feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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