Is this Packard worth 4 million?

[rwchatham]

Is this packard really worth the 4 million asking price ?

 

 

[Paul Dobbin]

Not worth that much to me, I'll have to pass.

[28 Chrysler]

The car must be new , there is no delivery information stamped on the serial number plate.

4 million what Clams ?

[58L-Y8]

It may produce a better perspective to pose the question on this topic since this is a Dietrich Individual Custom:

 

[Avanti Bill]

The simple answer is no it is not worth that much.  There could be mitigating factors which may make it worth more than other similar Packards but without that info who knows.  My guess is they lost track of the number of zeroes and have one too many!

[HarryLime]

Nah.............nah .

[edinmass]

If the asking price is 4, it went down in the recent past………

 

 

Nice car, but you would spend 750k minimum to make it ready for Pebble with a color change.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Cadillac Fan]

Yes.   I doubt you could get it for four million usd.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[TTR]

2 hours ago, rwchatham said:

Is this packard really worth the 4 million asking price ?

 

 

Of course it is. Why else would they ask, if they didn't think it wasn't ?

Edited January 17, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[34LaSalleClubSedan]

2 hours ago, 28 Chrysler said:

The car must be new , there is no delivery information stamped on the serial number plate.

4 million what Clams ?

Many original Packard"s did not have the date delivered, and the name of the Packard Dealer stamped on the serial number plate. 

[Gunsmoke]

There are so many ultra rich car collectors, and so few of these Top Dog Packards, that I suspect it is just a matter of time before it changes hands with both buyer and seller happy. Not sure it needs anything.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

My yard (metre) stick is to go onto hemmings for these high price cars and look at what the money would buy

 

I think I'd take a v16 cadillac + bugatti + 38 merc for 4m for instance rather than a packard

 

but that's just me

[Xander Wildeisen]

What ever it is worth, it sure is a beautiful car. Packard made some really impressive cars.

[arcticbuicks]

40 years ago we would be asking is this thing really worth $20,000.

[1937hd45]

A more entertaining question would be " If given 4 Million dollars would you buy this Packard or something else?" I'd have a Bugatti GP car the plot of land behind me, and a car barn along with a fat bank account to live off of for the rest of my life. 

 

Bob

Edited January 17, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

10 hours ago, 34LaSalleClubSedan said:

Many original Packard"s did not have the date delivered, and the name of the Packard Dealer stamped on the serial number plate. 

These Individual Customs, in most cases, were not sold through dealers. They were ordered and delivered through Packard distributors.

[West Peterson]

13 hours ago, rwchatham said:

Is this packard really worth the 4 million asking price ?

 

 

Where is it being advertised?

[edinmass]

10 hours ago, Gunsmoke said:

There are so many ultra rich car collectors, and so few of these Top Dog Packards, that I suspect it is just a matter of time before it changes hands with both buyer and seller happy. Not sure it needs anything.

 

There are not that many collectors who will pay over a million dollars for a car..........very, very few. It has been for sale for almost five years...........and at a number that has no relation to the number 4.

Edited January 17, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

If the asking price is 4, it went down in the recent past………

 

 

Nice car, but you would spend 750k minimum to make it ready for Pebble with a color change.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

Where is it being advertised?

 

Nowhere publicly to my knowledge.

 

There is a good shot that is close to the original color.   I think this is worth a lot more than people on this board realize.

Edited January 17, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 minutes ago, edinmass said:

It has been for sale for almost five years...........and at a number that has no relation to the number 4.

Do you know what amount they were previously asking?

How has that changed over time?

An asking price isn't secret:  It's either published, or 

available to those who ask.

[Steve Moskowitz]

John, I think if Ed wanted to divulge the price he would have.  Ed travels in the world of the ultra-desirable cars and has helped curate a collection of immense prestige and provenance.  He just has access to info that the rest of us do not and in many cases those folks only want certain folks to be privy to certain info.

 

In any case it is a moot point for most of us, the car is above our means!  Sure has some nice lines though and worthy of being admired.  I am constantly reminded of the saying a car is "worth what one old fool is willing to sell it for and what one old fool is willing to pay for it".  I am sure that the car will be sold for a handsome price at some point.

[TAKerry]

I think a better question is -Why is this car worth 4 mil.?

Its a beautiful automobile, not doubt. Yes, way above my pay grade. But playing with monopoly money for a few minutes before I laid out top dollar, this one looks a bit tired. Unless its 100% original. The paint looks like there are some chips, interior looks like it has been sat in a few times. Body tag is rough and care worn. Once the $750k is spent on a restoration will it be a 5mil. car? 

[Avanti Bill]

I have followed the full classic market for a while and I am hard pressed to remember any Packard selling for over two million in concours condition.

[edinmass]

 

Todays world record price is next years bargain. Most major collectors prefer privacy. The cars all have interesting and fantastic histories. The guy who pulls the trigger and gets the car back out on the road/show circuit deserves to tell the story. It's human nature to want to find out the details and end game. Publicly disclosing information would shut me out of garages and private treaty sales(and some collections). Big Boy Toy cars move in a very, very, small world. And deals on world class cars are often complicated with non disclosure agreements, trades, like kind exchanges, ect. So, unfortunately we often have to live with little or no knowledge of the transaction. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

15 minutes ago, Avanti Bill said:

I have followed the full classic market for a while and I am hard pressed to remember any Packard selling for over two million in concours condition.

 

You're way out of touch..........and there are mutiple cars that have traded over five M years ago.

Edited January 17, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

9 minutes ago, Avanti Bill said:

I have followed the full classic market for a while and I am hard pressed to remember any Packard selling for over two million in concours condition.

 

Here is the identical coupe version for 4.1

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ac15/the-andrews-collection/lots/r104-1934-packard-twelve-individual-custom-stationary-coupe-by-dietrich/180147

[Brass is Best]

Where can you get another one? Just Because you do not like the price doesn't make something worth less. 

[SC38dls]

When a car price is in the stratosphere to the 99.99% of people that call themselves car guys it doesn’t matter what the price is. Six figure prices are beyond what we can afford and still have a dime to our name.  A car like this is something I would love to see and possibly ride in but even that is a very rare occurrence. The best shot at seeing it would be something like PB and I can’t afford even that type of expensive holiday. 
I feel fortunate to know someone like Ed that is kind enough to share his fantastic experiences with us. Plus his knowledge and help from the good hearted guy he is just makes life in the car world more amazing. The world he lives in and shares with us has limitations that can’t, shouldn’t and I’m sure won’t be broken by him and it is not fair to ask him to do that. When he says he can’t share a picture or information let it be so he will share what he can. I think we have all benefited from that generosity, I know for sure I have. 
dave s 

[58L-Y8]

A more pertinent question is whether it's a genuine 1934 Packard Twelve 1108 Dietrich Individual Custom Style 4071 convertible runabout from its creation with known provenance or a re-body on an 1108 chassis.

[alsancle]

4 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

A more pertinent question is whether it's a genuine 1934 Packard Twelve 1108 Dietrich Individual Custom Style 4071 convertible runabout from its creation with known provenance or a re-body on an 1108 chassis.

 

Steve.  This car is deadnuts real with a long history.   No questions.

[John Bloom]

Coins, Paintings, Horses, Cars, etc............  the top .00001% will always cause this reaction.  As long as both parties are happy, that is all that matters.

 

If you want real confusion, go talk to this same demographic in the horse world. It will blow your mind.  

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

A more pertinent question is whether it's a genuine 1934 Packard Twelve 1108 Dietrich Individual Custom Style 4071 convertible runabout from its creation with known provenance or a re-body on an 1108 chassis.

 

 

Easy......look at the price. Want to know if an auction car is real.........look at the company selling it. Would you send your mid 8 figure Duesenberg to Barrett Jackson, Russo and Steel, Mecum, or similar.........or would you send it to RM, Gooding, and the other big two? Easy answer. To be honest, with the auction house swing of 22 percent.........expensive cars are getting sold in private treaty deals where a broker is happy to make a fair paycheck and save the seller/buyer hundreds of thousands of dollars. And just for the record...........every auction number is BS......every one. You never know what adjustments are done before and after the sale........thus private transactions are where it is at today.

[Cadillac Fan]

19 minutes ago, Avanti Bill said:

I have followed the full classic market for a while and I am hard pressed to remember any Packard selling for over two million in concours condition.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/am22/amelia-island/lots/r0065-1934-packard-twelve-individual-custom-convertible-victoria-by-dietrich/1211249
 

This is a less desirable body.  My guess is that if the subject car is in the same condition it is $6-8million.  And it takes 1-1.25 to get there.  Plus you have the chance of BOS at pebble beach.  

 

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, John Bloom said:

 

If you want real confusion, go talk to this same demographic in the horse world. It will blow your mind.  

 

I was looking at three horses the other day while trying to buy a car.......the car was 125k. 100 point CCCA classic.......the horses were 5 million plus..........each. And they were half way through their usefull career on the field. We won't even talk about holding cost and transportation to the shows.

[60FlatTop]

37 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

I think if Ed wanted to divulge the price he would have.

Since I got involved in the hobby the shrouded secrecy of pricing has been one of the most entertaining facets of the hobby. Both words and gestures in skirting the issue are usually comical.

 

All it will take is one single person to agree with the price of that Packard. It will sell.

[John Bloom]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

 

I was looking at three horses the other day while trying to buy a car.......the car was 125k. 100 point CCCA classic.......the horses were 5 million plus..........each. And they were half way through their usefull career on the field. We won't even talk about holding cost and transportation to the shows.

yep, and they die.........  Imagine telling the mid 60's racing provenance thinly produced Ferrari buyer that, in about 12 years, you go out to the garage and poof, the car is gone forever...it died.....

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Ed travels in the world of the ultra-desirable cars... 

In any case it is a moot point for most of us, the car is above our means! 

My thoughts:  It's not a moot point;  this whole topic is 

devoted to discussion of its value.  

Possession, prestige, and pretentiousness are not what

has made our hobby so universal.  It's a beautiful car, but

it's just a car.  What in one decade is the purview of the

self-described elite, was once a low-priced assemblage

of sheet metal languishing on a used-car dealer's back lot.

 

I'm happy to deflate the bubble of pretentiousness.  A wise

man said, "The last shall be first;  and the first last."

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

13 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

I was looking at three horses the other day while trying to buy a car.......the car was 125k. 100 point CCCA classic.......the horses were 5 million plus..........each. And they were half way through their usefull career on the field. We won't even talk about holding cost and transportation to the shows.

Want to make a Million in the race horse business. Start with 10 Million. 🙃

[60FlatTop]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not for nuthin' but I would certainly present a $4,000,000 car significantly better than that guy. Judging from the picture they must have inherited the car.

 

Even my cheap car sets in nicer places.

[SC38dls]

40 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

I was looking at three horses the other day while trying to buy a car.......the car was 125k. 100 point CCCA classic.......the horses were 5 million plus..........each. And they were half way through their usefull career on the field. We won't even talk about holding cost and transportation to the shows.

I was at the keeneland yearling sales a few years ago standing at the previewing rail when the shak of Dubi came up next to me and within an hour spent 48 million on six yearlings. They hadn’t even raced yet. He didn’t even blink an eye and that 48 million was before the auction sur charge. It would be two years before he could even begin to see if they could run any distance or speed. Plus he would have two years of feeding, shoes ( at $500 every 6 weeks) vet bills and training on top of that cost. Talk about rareafied air. 
That’s why you never buy anything that eats while you sleep. 
dave s 

Edited January 17, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)