Golf carts

[zeke01]

Wow! Here I am at Hershey. Just looking around, I never knew that there were so many old car people who were invalids. Everywhere you looked, people were riding in golf carts. In a memorable scene, two men got off a cart and lifted it over a 6” curb. “It’s a miracle!” I thought. Zeke

[greenie]

As a vendor, I agree. You see some conveyances with 3-4 able-bodied men riding together. Of course, the Region is limited by the ADA, their person-power limitations, and the sheer magnitude of the issue. The large size of the swap meet fields and the fairly sparse crowd is a mitigating factor. It’s important to protect yourself while on foot. I somewhat sympathize with them on one score- after walking 2 days at Carlisle on much more hilly terrain, we walked 4 miles Monday before setting up. My legs were just shot from too much - all in a row. However, there is no doubt that riding in a golf cart is the WORST way to shop the swap meet field. You need to WALK into each vendor space to fully take in the items for sale. So those who should be walking and choose to ride are simply missing the boat- so to speak. For those who are truly in need, thanks for coming. If we could limit the use to the small 3-wheel mobility scooters, perhaps.that would help. It’s the Region’s call.

[zeke01]

Twenty years ago I would have given the cart people the benefit of the doubt and moved aside for them. Now, not so much. It is obvious that most cart people are able bodied. Most of the cart people seemed to be riding around and drinking beer. Just lazy. Zeke

Edited October 6, 2022 by zeke01 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Yes, screw the cart people. This is my packed hotel parking lot--I had to park across the street at the Diary Queen tonight after the auction. They're not even trying to make it work. At least if the guy with the Nissan had parked straight he'd only take two spaces, but he's a d*ckhead and straddling four. 

    

 

And even though he's not a cart person, there should be one extra F-you to this guy with the Buick taking five parking spaces:

[joe_padavano]

Yeah, dodging golf carts, three wheelers, and other motorized vehicles was a challenge. The one bright spot was that only two or three of them had the annoying dragging soda cans.

[old car fan]

Way more carts than years past. Not that it mattered, wasn't  on the pa system.Free for  all.Just pass our spaces, golf cart towing  a trailer. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by old car fan (see edit history)

[Peter J.Heizmann]

53 minutes ago, old car fan said:

Way more carts than years past. Not that it mattered, wasn't  on the pa system.Free for  all.Just pass our spaces, golf cart towing  a trailer. 

Did you count them to come up with "Way more carts than past years?"  How many in "last years?"  If you have the numbers you may have a good case.  Photos on your phone would help, too.  While you are at it is your neighbor in the Orange Field that drove you crazy for selling LED lights still around?

[SC38dls]

I was walking in the Chocolate field when a fellow walking toward me almost got hit by a golf cart. Lucky he was pulling a small cart that the golf cart hit and jumped out of the way. The four guys in the cart could care less as they were laughing and having a few too many beers. 
dave s 

[Peter J.Heizmann]

50 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

I was walking in the Chocolate field when a fellow walking toward me almost got hit by a golf cart. Lucky he was pulling a small cart that the golf cart hit and jumped out of the way. The four guys in the cart could care less as they were laughing and having a few too many beers. 
dave s 

 

50 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

I was walking in the Chocolate field when a fellow walking toward me almost got hit by a golf cart. Lucky he was pulling a small cart that the golf cart hit and jumped out of the way. The four guys in the cart cd care less as they were laughing and having a few too many beers. 
dave s 

Did you point them out to any authorities?  That is serious too include drinking beer or whatever on HERCO property.  

[SC38dls]

No I did not. The people in the booth yelled at the guys but they just kept going. I think everyone was more concerned that the guy walking was ok. I wouldn’t know an official if I saw one unless they were wearing a bright yellow vest or something like that. I had no idea it wasn’t allowed. The disturbing part was they didn’t give a damn that they could of hurt the man. There were a number of golf carts that looked like a cold beer was the drink of choice. I live in a community that has a couple of golf courses so it’s not unusual to see a beer in a cart. 
I just never gave it a thought it wasn’t allowed which is stupid on my part. 
dave s 

[dl456]

I also witnessed golf carts in the car corral and the fields ride right past security with nothing said.

No Peter, I don’t have video evidence or a formal report.

If Hershey is to become the free for all then abolish the rules. If not, enforce them.

I think that is the jest of this post.

Frankly Peter

I find your replies somewhat antagonistic.

respectfully,

Dennis

[Peter J.Heizmann]

1 minute ago, dl456 said:

I also witnessed golf carts in the car corral and the fields ride right past security with nothing said.

No Peter, I don’t have video evidence or a formal report.

If Hershey is to become the free for all then abolish the rules. If not, enforce them.

I think that is the jest of this post.

Frankly Peter

I find your replies somewhat antagonistic.

respectfully,

Dennis

Do not want to be appear antagonistic in the least.  My comments made are to report such instances to the proper authorities.  The HERCO staff working maintenance, the Hershey Region Tent if near by, if the subject instance is history at least report all of these comments to the Hershey Region to make them aware.  Complaining on this Forum serves little if any purpose.  The Hershey Region is not monitoring this Forum searching out such things.

[old car fan]

Peter ,I did not start  this topic, just replying  to the truth  of it,were  you here,why bust my balls for years  past.Rules are rules.enforce or not.You have rules on the forums, someone  needs to in force on the feild.Listen to the Hershey  vendors. And,no no Chinese lights  by are booth,10 years ago,and your still upset,second,we got moved after years. Third do you  personally  have  anything to do with the meet,if not,read the complaints, again, just  replying  to a post,not mine 

[richasco]

I witnessed an older lady get knocked down by a mobility scooter this afternoon. There were a lot of people who rushed to help and fortunately she wasn’t seriously hurt. I bet she will be very sore tomorrow. I still can’t believe that her head didn’t hit the pavement. I had more close calls with almost being hit walking the fields than I did in the entire drive up from Virginia.

[trimacar]

I was walking today with a cane on the field, not far, as one of my knees has decided not to participate in the walking portion of my life.  At least three times in the space of twenty minutes, I had to lurch to a stop, as a cart or three wheeler never slowed down and would have hit me. I probably needed a cart, a lot of people don’t, but because of the laws if you tell them you’re handicapped, theres no asking for proof of the fact.

 

I also agree it’s the worst way for an able bodied person to shop, you have to digsometimes to find the good stuff.

 

Other than at the entrance, I NEVER saw any official trying to enforce ANY thing, they just weren’t out and about as usual.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

46 minutes ago, Peter J.Heizmann said:

48 minutes ago, Peter J.Heizmann said:

Do not want to be appear antagonistic in the least.  My comments made are to report such instances to the proper authorities.  The HERCO staff working maintenance, the Hershey Region Tent if near by, if the subject instance is history at least report all of these comments to the Hershey Region to make them aware.  Complaining on this Forum serves little if any purpose.  The Hershey Region is not monitoring this Forum searching out such things.

Again, it has to be reported to the Hershey Region.  Every year it is the same thread on the Forum.  If the Hershey Region receives "individual" emails from all of you directly it may get the attention.

 

[alsancle]

I will add a positive comment. I did not hear a single tin can this year. That was the most annoying scourge of Hershey

[old car fan]

On Point,are there  rules or not,Someone  ,whoever's  responsible, should  take  note, if you  are not the one  stay off my butt

[zeke01]

25 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I will add a positive comment. I did not hear a single tin can this year. That was the most annoying scourge of Hershey

Lucky you. I heard several. Zeke 

[M1842]

6 hours ago, old car fan said:

Way more carts than years past. Not that it mattered, wasn't  on the pa system.Free for  all.Just pass our spaces, golf cart towing  a trailer. 

I saw a cart towing a trailer when I was there Wednesday.   Probably multiples.

[md murray]

Everytime Jay Leno goes he rides around on a golfcart...😁.

[md murray]

It's not the carts that bother me it's the way some of the folks drive them. 

[pkhammer]

I saw several riders on bicycles, mopeds and scooters too.

[playswithbrass]

The other thing this year was dodging dog poop

[dalef62]

Golf carts are getting out of hand.  More able body people riding them.  How many times do you see everyone on the cart riding down the rows with everyone including the driver looking in each vendor space???  Someone is going to get seriously hurt.  

People need to be more responsible when they use carts!  Pedestrian have the Right of Way!!!

[kuhner]

I thought the rules were electric carts only.

We saw many, close to half, gas powered. 
Most drivers keep to the center of the lanes, what really burns me are the one who pull their cart right up to the tables

[edinmass]

ADA rules can be hard to enforce what people use. You can actually claim you need a pick up truck to get around……..fact is there are some protections for events now in case law that allow them to reasonably restrict what type of vehicles are allowed. But you need to be willing to litigate what you enforce. Stopping all golf carts would be acceptable for everyone but emergency services. Then we would be dealing with a bunch more electric scooters. I was actually run down at Amelia a few years ago due to an old man’s stupidity. Got banged up pretty good, and I was on the sidewalk.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Just a couple of thoughts.  The club hates golf carts.  Why?  It is a liability and a big one BUT the region and club signed a consent decree with the state of Pennsylvania based on a lawsuit brought by someone who felt we were discriminating against handicapped people.  So that is why certain things happen here.

 

Secondly, the gas carts were probably Hershey Region volunteers who are allowed carts due to the constant movement between fields.  Electrics make it more difficult due to loss of charge.  Also, some folks think the rules are meant only for others.

 

The two wheelers are illegal yet when I tried to enforce a particular jerk into parking his irresponsible use of the moped it gave me the finger and took off.  Very hard to cover these abuses as folks go back to doing bad things once your back is turned.

 

Leno refused a cart when he was here for two days a few years ago.

[edinmass]

Personally I’m dreading the day I need to use a mobility assistance device. Sitting here today sore from walking but it’s a good reminder to try and stay as fit and mobile as possible. By 4pm in the afternoon I want to punch the lights out of one of the obnoxious golf cart drivers and use it to get back to my truck in the parking lot. I’ll probably have to save the knuckle sandwich cart jacking till my final fall meet……..

[Jay Wolf]

Worse than golf carts, Wednesday there were at least 2 (surely more) people driving up and down the rows in their cars or trucks.

There was Kia  driving up and down every row in the chocolate field it passed us like 3 time they would stop, get out a look and drive looking at the booths not what was in front of them. We finally just moved to different field before we were run over. In the red field there was a F-250 doing the same thing.

[ex98thdrill]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:53 PM, md murray said:

Everytime Jay Leno goes he rides around on a golfcart...😁.

......and Wayne Carini

 

[SC38dls]

I’m a disabled vet. I’ve got braces on both legs. I’ve got a back bone so full of arthritis the docs told my wife to drop me at the horse vets and have me put down. Not asking for sympathy just stating the facts. I walked Hershey for at least three miles. Never considered a cart. If the rules allowed checking if the people getting carts actually needed them it would eliminate the problem but that is not possible. So maybe the event should put up signs saying carts allowed in this lane only and people walking have right away. No way to enforce but it might help. Keep them to the center of the lane. To me this type of event should not be for someone so limited mobility wise to attend. For years I walked cross country horse events and hated the fact they allowed carts. My first Hershey had only one problem and that was carts and the turkeys driving them. Put restrictions on the use. Have parking spaces half way down an isle for them. If you can’t walk that far to a stall you shouldn’t be there. Hell walking and talking to people you don’t even know and will probably never see again was have the fun of being there. A few benches at the end of the isle would have let me walk another mile or so. I tried leaning against a tree but some giant bugs said they had first rights to the tree. 
Golf carts aside I had a ball. Thanks. 
dave s 

ps-sorry for the rant. 

[Jim Bollman]

Most of the cart comments have been made and I agree with most all of them. A friend with walking problems, has a tandem scouter (room for a passenger in the back) so normal handicap scooter wide and slightly longer. Between weather and running vending spot, I had only gotten the lower Chocolate covered by Thursday and he offered me the back seat to do the upper Chocolate and I accepted even though I don't have a walking problem other than being old. I probably saw more since he was driving and didn't have to pay attention to the driving but I didn't see much, not the way I wanted too. It did occur to me as I was riding along what would make it easier for those of us that still walk but are aging out, joint and energy wise, that it would be nice to have an open shuttle that ran the main corridor between the two Choclate fields down to the far end of Red. An another open shuttle that ran the length of green between it and orange. When you have to walk close to a mile to get to and from a field it doesn't leave a lot of energy to walk the field. Just a thought, not sure it would cut down on carts but it might.

[Skylark4367]

I have trouble standing and walking due to back problems.  I resisted renting a golf cart until this year.  They're expensive to rent and I didn't want to surrender to my limited mobility.  I was in bad shape for a week after Hershey last year after trying to walk the flea market and show field, so I rented a golf cart from Scooterbug this year.  The good part about using the golf cart was being able to get to parts of the flea market and car corral I hadn't been to in many years.  I wasn't shopping for anything so I was careful about where I was going and mindful of pedestrians and other carts and scooters.  I enjoyed the mobility that the cart gave me and I appreciated seeing more of the sights than I had in a long time.  I didn't enjoy the size of the cart and the space that it took up in the aisles.  Also, the seat didn't adjust and the position of the brake and accelerator pedals was uncomfortable.  If I rent a mobility device at Hershey again, I'll rent a one-person scooter.  It takes up less space and has hand controls, which I imagine are more comfortable to use than the pedals in the golf cart.

[TAKerry]

I have bad knees, walking a lot and I feel it. Strangely enough sitting for hours i.e. driving some place and they feel worse. I see some people that are in worse shape than myself and I just suck it up. They generally arent that bad but after going the rounds of the flea market  I am ready for a rest. I figure if it doesnt kill me it must be helping. I was there on fri and the crowd was very thin, lots of carts but did not seem to pose a  problem. I have been there before when busier and see when its a problem. The guys driving should just be respectful of the pedestrians. I was talking with one of the volunteers in the show field when a cart came rolling by, he commented about which class it should be put in, then he pointed out the ultra rare green model, LOL.

[Bhigdog]

Here in PA a handicap hang card, or plates and a ID card is needed to avail oneself of special considerations. A notarized form from a doctor is submitted to the State and if approved handicap ID is issued. I'm guessing some form regulation could be devised to only allow  carts to be used by those with a valid ID. ..............Bob

[Steve Moskowitz]

Every year it is the same thing and every year I try and make you folks understand that what you think are solutions are not.  AACA was sued in the 90's and entered into a consent decree with our state agency that oversees the ADA.  The region has to abide by that consent decree or else!  Before you suggest we revisit it again, it has been.  We cannot ask about a person's handicap, some are very evident and some are not.  In any case, we are required legally as I have said repeatedly and in another thread that we have to follow the agreement with made with our state agency.  Golf carts are the number one liability for us at Hershey so naturally we would like to reduce the number.  The club and region reduced the number this year for volunteers but it is still of great concern.

[SC38dls]

Steve, don’t let the turkeys or golf carts get you down. It was a great Hershey and from what this first timer has heard it gets better every year. As you say you’ve looked at every possibility to solve the cart problem so believe in your results. You, the staff and dare I say the lawyers have instituted the best plan you can under the constraints you have to live with. Have a standard answer you can just paste instead of wasting time retyping the same thing over and over. But include If someone wants to give you a new idea have them come to headquarters, read the constraints you have been given, write a check to cover the legal fees to reopen the case and be available to argue the case in court when the case comes up. I’ll bet you don’t get many more ideas summited to eliminate unethical cart use. 
I know I’m a smart ass but sometimes you just have to be that way when people don’t listen or read what you’ve said multiple times. 
dave s 

[Peter Gariepy]

Im closing this threat.

For those that want to discuss it further please feel free to reach out the the Hershey region.