Selling cars from an estate

[crazycars]

Not quite sure what to do. My situation: I am 75 years old, in relatively good health, but I realize that I am a whole lot closer to the end than the beginning!  I own 17 cars, mostly from the 1920's, no trophy winners but presentable and in good mechanical condition.  I do not wish to burden my wife with my "legacy" and am hoping you guys might have some suggestions as to a broker or an agency who could handle this for her after my demise. Not trying to sound morbid, more like practical. All suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Walt G]

Give us an idea of location - east (North east, south east) west ( north west south west) mid west ( again north or south) that can determine someone of good reputation who can travel to see the cars. Or are you in Europe, Australia, ?? You do not have to be specific but we need a clue as usual to try and help.

[John348]

I have been having similar thoughts myself, and it is a complex situation filled with many "what if's?" A member of the local Chevy Club I belong to on Long Island has a rather large collection of over 30 vehicles. He had an appraiser come and write up a valuation binder on each vehicle. He felt it was a good starting point, and aide his estate with the liquidation.

Walt brings up a very good point, as to where you are located is a very important factor

[Matt Harwood]

As someone who deals with this situation frequently, my first piece of advice is to start whittling down your collection now, before it becomes someone else's problem to solve. If there are cars you don't use often or don't love as much as others, maybe think about selling those now, while you can. Focus on the ones you like best, hard as it may be to do.

 

The problem with leaving it until you're gone is that there's all kinds of bureaucratic red tape and emotional baggage tied up and your next-of-kin aren't exactly going to be thinking clearly. They don't know as much about the cars as you do and they only have your valuation to go by when negotiating with any buyer/broker, and that may or may not be accurate. The bottom line is that they really won't want the stress. If the widows who I work with could, they would just push their late husbands' cars into a dumpster and be done with them--they're hurting too much to be rational and just want them out of their lives. The only reason they care is because their husbands cared and they feel like they're betraying his memory if they don't try to eke out every penny and work really hard to find them all good homes. Appraisals are often worthless, simply because they create a line in the sand that has to be honored regardless of whether it's accurate. It's a very tough situation for your loved ones.

 

It's not fair to your spouse/kids to force them to deal with your entire collection after you're gone. YOU are the expert.  YOU know the cars. YOU know their values best. A broker won't magically make this not a problem for your family; from titles to bank accounts to wills to probate court to the pile of paperwork involved with each transaction in an estate, it's going to be a royal pain in the butt for whomever lands the job. And they'll be miserable the entire time because they miss you so much and don't want to let you down.

 

Start managing your collection now, while you can and while you have your faculties intact. Anything can happen, and dealing with 3-4 cars will be far, far easier for them (and you) to manage. Don't pass off the problem to your family after you're gone--take an active role in solving the problem now, while you can. Your family will thank you for it.

[nick8086]

Get all the car title. Taken care of first..

 

You can wros the car for 14.00 to another person..

 

Make a good will..  insurance will not elapsed.

 

Make sure you have storage..

 

Put money in the will to take care of this...

 

I put 2k in my will to take care of the cars per year..

 

Who will air the tires?

 

Keep the mice away.. Just some item I do every day.. Once you pass. Someone has to do this... 

 

I have Bob in my will to do this..

 

My advice is for only  for cars in the garage  not in the farm field for 30 years..

[nick8086]

My estate car..

[arcticbuicks]

I think this is a good topic …..not be morbid 

I have seen so many estates sales of collections , people taken advantage of , the wrong people get involved , valuable parts scrapped because can’t identify them and so on …..but probably the biggest issue is the burden for family in certain cases

[avgwarhawk]

43 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

As someone who deals with this situation frequently, my first piece of advice is to start whittling down your collection now, before it becomes someone else's problem to solve. If there are cars you don't use often or don't love as much as others, maybe think about selling those now, while you can. Focus on the ones you like best, hard as it may be to do.

 

The problem with leaving it until you're gone is that there's all kinds of bureaucratic red tape and emotional baggage tied up and your next-of-kin aren't exactly going to be thinking clearly. They don't know as much about the cars as you do and they only have your valuation to go by when negotiating with any buyer/broker, and that may or may not be accurate. The bottom line is that they really won't want the stress. If the widows who I work with could, they would just push their late husbands' cars into a dumpster and be done with them--they're hurting too much to be rational and just want them out of their lives. The only reason they care is because their husbands cared and they feel like they're betraying his memory if they don't try to eke out every penny and work really hard to find them all good homes. Appraisals are often worthless, simply because they create a line in the sand that has to be honored regardless of whether it's accurate. It's a very tough situation for your loved ones.

 

It's not fair to your spouse/kids to force them to deal with your entire collection after you're gone. YOU are the expert.  YOU know the cars. YOU know their values best. A broker won't magically make this not a problem for your family; from titles to bank accounts to wills to probate court to the pile of paperwork involved with each transaction in an estate, it's going to be a royal pain in the butt for whomever lands the job. And they'll be miserable the entire time because they miss you so much and don't want to let you down.

 

Start managing your collection now, while you can and while you have your faculties intact. Anything can happen, and dealing with 3-4 cars will be far, far easier for them (and you) to manage. Don't pass off the problem to your family after you're gone--take an active role in solving the problem now, while you can. Your family will thank you for it.

Best approach hands down. 

[arcticbuicks]

I told my family ……don’t touch anything ….don’t clean up …..don’t sell the best ones off fast …….just AUCTION and the best ones will also be an attraction and bring attention to the small items , these days online auctions bring good money with wide exposure …….a one day auction for a bigger type place with parts and non running cars etc …….every last thing sells and picked up with  buyers effort and gone …loaded towed lifted carried etc …….amazingly faster than it would take a person months to clean up …….I was thinking about this topic myself a few weeks ago and even just writing on items with a paint marker ,tagging parts 

Edited February 3, 2022 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[John348]

45 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Appraisals are often worthless, simply because they create a line in the sand that has to be honored regardless of whether it's accurate. It's a very tough situation for your loved ones.

 

I would normally agree with your thoughts on appraisals, this very informative. I should have elaborated on the binders that were prepared. They gave different various pricing and one of the valuations was a wholesale price to be used in the event of an estate sale. I would agree with the wholesale prices given on the three vehicles I am familiar with. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

Give us an idea of location... 

 

Also, please give us an idea of the TYPES of cars

you have from the 1920's.  They could be #3 condition

sedans worth $8000 each or custom-bodied Packards

worth $200,000 each.  What they are may affect our

advice.

 

Vanderbrink Auctions in Minnesota was well recommended

to the Lambrecht family when their big collection of low-mileage

Chevrolets was sold in Nebraska in 2013.  Vanderbrink evidently

can travel for sizable collections.  I don't know them, but they

seem to me to be serious and honest and without the hype

of some well-known car auctioneeers.

 

https://www.vanderbrinkauctions.com/contact/

 

I say:  You don't have to sell them in advance if you don't

wish to.  Life is to live and enjoy fully, and plenty of active

AACA members are in their 70's or 80's.  One man in our

club sold his cars but lived long after the sale, and

regretted getting away from his fond hobby too early! 

He eventually celebrated his 80th wedding anniversary.

You could also donate a car or two to the AACA Library

now or later;  a few collectors have done just that.

 

All the best to you!

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

54 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

I think this is a good topic …..not be morbid 

I have seen so many estates sales of collections , people taken advantage of , the wrong people get involved , valuable parts scrapped because can’t identify them and so on …..but probably the biggest issue is the burden for family in certain cases

Without clear instructions on disposal, it only takes 1 family member/friend who thinks they are a car expert* (having watched TV car auctions) to cause problems when they think cars are being sold too cheap.  Thinks they are worth a gazillion $. but market value (based on condition, style, year) is say a reasonable $950.

 

* Definition

X - unknown quantity

spurt - drip under pressure [UK AU drip - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Drip]

Edited February 3, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Bryan G]

I would seek out an auction house now; most of us in the states are within a few hours of a decent annual or semi-annual sale. Ring up the company that is closest and have a chat. Does your collection fit with their sales? If not, or if you don't feel comfortable, move along. Auctions remain my favorite way to liquidate an estate as the company does the heavy lifting. The day will come and by sunset it will all be history. No midnight texts, "is your MODEL T, BLACK, RUNS NICE still for sale?" No guys who call eleven times and then don't show up for their appointment. No tire kickers. No out of state buyers who show up with a check. No "I'll give you $2500". No "will you trade for a basket case Harley/1993 Chevy pickup with a lifter tap/Bayliner with a bad lower unit". No "I'll sell it for you, only $95". Just one day.

[arcticbuicks]

YUP

[Restorer32]

Or do as I did.  Raise a Son who is as crazy about old cars as I am.  Down side is he won't let me sell any of my cars, not that I want to.

[alsancle]

25 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Or do as I did.  Raise a Son who is as crazy about old cars as I am.  Down side is he won't let me sell any of my cars, not that I want to.

There’s a little bit of luck involved in that. My dad had three boys, my two brothers really don’t have much interest in the cars. In his case he’s whittled the collection back to half a dozen, and he stopped worry about it a while ago because he knows I’ll have to worry about it.

 

Lots of  good advice in this thread, particularly making sure the titles are easy to find, I would recommend everything for a particular car is in one binder including instructions on starting it. 

[Delco32V]

I just went through this with a uncle, who had a ton of valuable and not so valuable antique farm equipment. He lived far away and alone.

 

He passed rather suddenly and without any provisions at all, except a hurriedly drawn will at the last minute.

 

It was painful and a mess to deal with, especially being so far away. Many items simply disappeared. 

 

Matt's observation is wise. Other family members had no idea what to do except sell sell sell, for whatever pennies on the dollar would bring and quickly.

 

It just should not have happened this way. But it does. Do not leave a large mess for someone to deal with. Don't assume they can store it (pay for it) or have the time to take care of it as you may have or deal with an auction company. No one seems to realize the burden that this can be on the survivors. Do they get money at the end?. Sure, but how much grief did it take to do so. Saying that you don't care if it gets pushed into a hole is fine, but someone now has to do that.

 

Don't wait, pare it down now and keep it simple.

[alsancle]

I'll consolidate some of the great wisdom in this thread:

 

1.  Thin the herd to the important stuff (to you).

 

2.  Make sure you have a clear open title for each car.

 

3.  Create a binder for each car with the title and any important information.  For example, starting instructions.   Or the last time the oil and anti-freeze was changed.

 

4.  If you want any kids or nephews, etc to have a particular car - spell that out now in your will.

 

5.  For anything left,  have clear instructions on disposal.   Picking an auction house is problematic and complicated.  Don't go that way.  I would have a relationship established with a known dealer and a general agreement made.

Edited February 3, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[greenie]

I have 4 cars. My wife and I raised 2 children, both sons. Daughters work just as well.

 

I took them to Hershey, Carlisle, and involved them in the hobby. They both grew up loving cars- maybe not the cars I like- but cars.

 

We sat down and decided how the cars will be divided. Each gets 2.

 

The titles are signed. Upon my passing, they can process the title change as a gift. The government gets about $20. After that, if they want to sell them to buy a Honda, or Lancia- that’s great. 

 

Don’t wait until someone else’s has to decide for you.

[TAKerry]

Ask yourself, How often do I drive them, and which ones do I drive? Pick the best or your favorite 2 and sell the rest now. If you have a parts stash get rid of that as well. If you have a certain car that you want a particular person to have, gift it to them now. All of this is much easier to do when your alive than having your survivors clean the mess up. Keep in mind, everyone has diff tastes and just because you see value in a tool or a car the next person wont. If you have a project to tinker with then keep just one to fool around with. Less is more sometimes.

[West Peterson]

10 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I say:  You don't have to sell them in advance if you don't

wish to.  Life is to live and enjoy fully, and plenty of active

AACA members are in their 70's or 80's.  One man in our

club sold his cars but lived long after the sale, and

regretted getting away from his fond hobby too early! 

He eventually celebrated his 80th wedding anniversary.

You could also donate a car or two to the AACA Library

now or later;  a few collectors have done just that.

 

 

^^^ What he said. Unless you're in poor health, all I would do is cull the herd of what you don't really use/like/need/want. You didn't mention kids, but others said "you are the expert, not them." That may or may not be the case with everyone. Many kids are just as involved with the cars as the parent(s) is/are.

 

I am personally going through this situation right now with my father's recent death. He was actually BUYING cars when he was at the cusp of 90 years old. That said, he did sort of leave a mess for my brothers and me, in that he was always riding the edge in regard to properly registering the cars. We have open titles, sketchy bills of sales, cars registered in two different states, cars not registered at all, and one car worth 10 times more than the rest of them put together (12 cars total).

 

My best advice, as others said above, just make sure everything is in order so that it's easy paperwork for the heirs. If your only heir is your wife, cull the herd really thin, but don't give up on your hobby. You will regret it, as you may live well into your 90s and in good health.

[West Peterson]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I'll consolidate some of the great wisdom in this thread:

 

1.  Thin the heard to the important stuff (to you).

 

2.  Make sure you have a clear open title for each car.

 

3.  Create a binder for each car with the title and any important information.  For example, starting instructions.   Or the last time the oil and anti-freeze was changed.

 

4.  If you want any kids or nephews, etc to have a particular car - spell that out now in your will.

 

5.  For anything left,  have clear instructions on disposal.   Picking an auction house is problematic and complicated.  Don't go that way.  I would have a relationship established with a known dealer and a general agreement made.

 

^^^^ In a nutshell. Mic drop. (Other than the spelling of herd)

[63RedBrier]

I'm sure when some of you read what I am about to post, you will know who I am writing about...  I am acquainted with a guy from the Tidewater area of Virginia who is in his early 80's and has a "collection" of 65 or so cars, undercover or shedded, but not insulated/dehumidified storage.  Most of the collection is housed in a huge shed and vehicles are parked so close together and 3-4 deep with so much flotsam and jetsam piled on top you can't really see that there are vehicles buried under there.  He seems to be slowly selling off one car at a time by advertising on a sandwich board in front of his house.  He has some cool cars, but only every other one is for sale.  Those that are for sale haven't moved in decades.  He knows what he wants for each car and doesn't seem to want to budge off his prices.  If he would have sold out 20 years ago, when he was 20 years younger, when the market was at it's peak, he could have cashed in!  I met another guy at a show and discussion came around to this collection.  He offered to go to the hoarder's house and pull one car out clean it up and put it on the internet for wide exposure, but that idea fell on deaf ears.  I'm waiting for the auction...  

[Bhigdog]

There are also tax implications to be considered. Sell now and, for better or wor$e, deal with the IRS. Here in PA if I leave them to my wife there is no tax and whatever she sells them for is the stepped up basis with no federal capital gain tax. If she or I leave them to my son the PA death tax is something like 3% and he enjoys the stepped up basis when/if he sells. there is no one best answer for everyone. Not even close.............Bob

Edited February 3, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

I didn't think there was a death tax unless the estate was worth more than $xx million dollars. But Bob is right. If a car was bought 40 years ago, there will be a huge tax if sold now.

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

27 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

I didn't think there was a death tax unless the estate was worth more than $xx million dollars.... 

I sounds as if Bob was referring to his state of Pennsylvania,

where the state's inheritance tax ("death tax") does not have,

I understand, any amount excluded.  The rate depends on the

relationship of the heir to the deceased person and ranges from

0% up to 15%.

 

But where does the original poster live?  We can't be specific to

his case unless he wants to give that information.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Str8-8-Dave]

Hey- this getting old stuff is a PITA.  I just sold off a cottage in the UP which had a 3-1/2 car garage full of tractors, boats and ATV's and a cottage with furniture, antique clocks, TV and stereo junk for 2 reasons.  A- at age 71 I was starting to hate driving 7 hours to get there and B- spending the next whole day catching up with lawn cutting, yard work and cleaning the dust stirred up by speeding tourists on our private gravel road off my windows.   But then there is C- the most important part- not leaving my wife with an estate nightmare trying to figure out how to liquidate all that stuff and keep the peace with the vultures now circling her, waiting for their "just inheritance" for putting up with my existence for all these years.   It worked out.

 

The realtor I hired lives on a hobby farm and when I mentioned to him I would be cleaning some stuff out of the garage so it didn't look to prospective buyers that I was a hoarder he said "Oh- what do you have in the garage?"  When I showed him all that stuff he got his checkbook out and bought it all- lock stock and barrel.  Then, in about 8 weeks he brought a buyer to the closing table who bought the cottage and furnishings for about 2500 less than the original asking price.  I didn't have to winterize the place and didn't have to go back since end of October and I did the closing paperwork thru express mail with the title company and had proceeds wired to my bank account.

 

Yesterday we went to the lawyer's office to close on my trust which will be funded from the cottage sale and lists all my tangibles and avoids a row with the IRS.  And guess what- it all goes to my wife.  She will have unilateral control over everything.  If the heirs behave and can work together she might parse out tangibles and money while she is still alive.  If they wanna fight she can tell them get lost, and they don't get anything until she passes and then only what she hasn't liquidated or spent.  I know, it sounds harsh, but I told my kids how it was gonna work and they have gotten to be quite humble and accepting.  I'm kinda fond of the arrangement.

 

As far as cars go I will leave her with the car I'm driving when I check out and maybe one or two antiquers..   She can put any or all of them on E-bay or Craigslist or BAT to get rid of that stuff.  

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Str8-8-Dave
Fix grammar (see edit history)

[Scott Bonesteel]

One thought that was mentioned by Arcticbuick that I think is very important is identifying the loose parts we all have accumulated over the years, which in many instances make up the 'bulk' of our estates.  Not all of us have 10-50 cars but if you have 1-4 like I do the parts stash is bigger than the car stash.  Not much of a problem for me because all 4 of my cars are 34 Mopars and anybody looking at the cars is going to know what the parts are, however, I think most people have parts they have picked up over the years, either for cars they used to have or simply as wall hangers.  As some of the recent auctions have shown, the value of some of those wall hangers (neon signs, etc.) is greater than the cars.  Agree totally with most of the suggestions above about getting the estate ready for disposal but you can avoid losing the value of those odd parts that may have particular value by identifying them with a Sharpie.  We all have seen the piles of mixed parts at some estate sales with the one or two 'gems' mixed in the pile.  In most cases the decedent knew what each part was but the surviving spouse or others may not and, accordingly, may not recognize the value.  If nothing else, gives your heirs the title for the listing when they sell off the parts on ebay.  To paraphrase a common saying, you never see a car trailer behind a hearse, so take some steps to make it easier (and perhaps more profitable) for those you leave behind.

[pkhammer]

If I'm still in good health at retirement (6 more years!) I'm going to sell off all of my hoard except one antique car to keep and enjoy and spend the rest of the money traveling and seeing places and doing things I've always wanted to see and do. We have no children so no heirs to leave anything to. I intend to downsize and enjoy life because sometimes "stuff" can just be a burden, especially as you get older.

[West Peterson]

4 minutes ago, Scott Bonesteel said:

  To paraphrase a common saying, you never see a car trailer behind a hearse ...

 

My dad always said, "Never say never."

[tcslr]

and all the people said... Amen

[Restorer32]

My Sister and Bro-in-law are dealing with a mess now.  His Brother was quite a hoarder and lived 700 miles from them.  He passed and it is up to his bro to clean up his mess.  3 slum houses. Maybe 23 cars in various states of disrepair and literally tons and tons of "stuff".  They have been working on cleaning things up and thought they saw the end until a lady stopped by at the house they were decluttering and said "I am so and so and your brother rented a storage bldg from me and the rent in due".  Sister asked what was in the building. Turned out it was a 1947 Piper Cub J3 plane.  Anyone want a deal on an old airplane? It's in Yemasee South Carolina.

[Fossil]

From someone who recently had to clean up an estate, please continue to get your things in order. Your family will absolutely love you for it.  If you have unused things laying around get rid of them.  I'm 71 and spent 3 days just clearing out the boat house.  I was physically shot after a week.  I'm guessing your children (if you have any) aren't kids anymore.  

It's wonderful your thinking of your family.

 

[Peter Gariepy]

I've liquidated a number of large collections.  Number of cars:  97, 45, 15 and a number under 10.  Headaches in no particular order:

• LEGAL:  Leaving an estate without explicit instructions and naming personal representatives/executors is a nightmare.  Have your affairs in order!  Have everything written down! If you don't the state will gladly assume responsibility, your wishes and family be damned.
• TITLES, TITLES, TITLES! - Get them in order, at least on the valuable vehicles.
• STORAGE:  Many times there is a rush to get them moved due to the cost of storage.  Plan ahead.  A rushed move is a nightmare.
• SET REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS ON PRICES:  families have been conditioned to believe the value of the vehicles at 2x -10x more than real life.  Show them value guides. Explain rating systems.  In the case of valuable vehicles appraisals are a must.
• DONT FORGET THE LITTLE STUFF:  Parts, tools, art, collectibles, memorabilia, printed material.  Many times this stuff can be more valuable than the cars.
• GIVE STUFF AWAY NOW.  Museums, Libraries and non-profits want the stuff you don't care about. Give it to them while you have the chance.

The nightmares you leave behind will be overwhelming if you don't plan.  

Do it now.

Don't put it off.

[John348]

We are all presuming that we are predeceasing our spouse's, that's another 'what if?'  All we can do is prepare the best we can to make it easier for those we love and care for. 

[pkhammer]

There's a reason why the men usually go first, I mean look at what we have to put up with! Oh, hi Dear, I didn't see you standing there! Oh this? I was just kidding around with the guys on the forum.....no really! Ouch, Ouch Ouch................☠️

[Paul Dobbin]

I agree, don't leave a mess as your legacy.   
It does matter where you die.   Each if the 50 states have their own sets of rules to make your heirs want to blame the Government for the problems you left behind,
Trusts are only as good as the Trustee you selected and the instructions  you left for them.   The Clerk of the Court is a valuable source of information to use.
Here's a suggestion to try on your own, just to see what your heirs will be up against:   
!.   First thing in the file cabinet should be   "My Instructions"   A complete guide to what's in the cabinet and where to find other important things. and what to do with them.  Like the location of your Will and Separate Writings or Trust Papers,  Life Insurance Policies, Investment papers, Vehicle titles, Power of Attorney,  Funeral Instructions, etc. etc. , even your  own obituary.    Your instructions should be printed on colored paper different than the mostly white papers in those files

2.  Then go through the numbered files and write file identification and instructions for what to do with this item.   Be specific and detailed as possible.    Then print your Instructions on the same color paper as your "My Instructions" pages.  It  will make it easier when you are not here to advise. (Maybe PINK)
      Now, if this is to much for you to do, imagine how mad your heirs will be, with you   Now you know enough about what you are leaving behind, talk to your Financial  Planner and Lawyer, and your executor.   
3.   If you want somebody you know tp be your executor, get their permission.  Also plan to compensate them because it's big time involved job.
4.   If you own stocks or Mutual Funds add T.O.D to the owners name,  It's a Transfer On Death provision transferring ownership on you death to another person at a stepped up basis.  (Meaning the new owner is not liable for your Capital Gains)

If this seams like to much trouble, re-read Matt Harwood's post above an start the downsizing,

 

 

[Bhigdog]

Or.........Separate your "stuff" into two lots.

With lot #1 follow all of the above recommendations.

Lot #2  will consist of all the junk and parts cars that you've accumulated over the years. Destroy any titles. Throw away any keys. Remove any identification from parts. Let most of the air out of the tires. Park any vehicles in inaccessible places and pile as many heavy things as you can in front and on top of them. Fill the vehicles with as much worthless junk as they will hold.

Leave lot #2 to the relative that, over the years, has most pissed you off..........Bob

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

My daughter is the youngest but I hate to think of putting that burden on her when she's around 70. I got married late.

 

I sold three last year and only bought one. Possibly sell two next year.

 

The important thing I do is keep reminding them the stuff is my toys and it doesn't owe them or me anything. They know who my friends are and they can just give the good ones whatever they want.

 

If my toys are worth greater than 5 or 10% of what I leave behind I would consider I was pretty irresponsible in the whole scheme of things.

[crazycars]

I am located in Rhode Island.