Not Disappointed!!!

[Buffalowed Bill]

OK a quick thumbnail sketch of the Post Office's "Registered Mail' service. This is not like dropping an envelope containing cash in a collection box. The service was first offered by the PO in 1855, as a secure way for people to sent valuables across the country and later around the world. Registered Mail travels with regular mail shipments, but is always kept apart from the regular mail shipment. Every step of the way it is signed for by fully vetted postal employee. This provides accountability at every level of movement. Hundreds of millions of dollars of valuable merchandise and cash are successfully transported this way every year.  The advantages of the service are accountability, reliability, tracking, and the ability to fully insure the item.

 

I chuckle when I have seen a depiction courier dispatched with a quarter of a million dollars with of diamonds, with which he is entrusted to take across country. Good luck on that one! I would ten times rather take my chances with the USPS.

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, Modeleh said:

Think of your car like a four door Corvair.

 

For years the 4 door Corvairs were the daily drivers or parts cars for the 2 doors and convertibles. Now, however, they have a very strong following! And the station wagons too! Prices rising...  of course I remember when they were given away to get them out of the yard.😄

[Laughing Coyote]

Here is a bargain 4 cars for one price. Even includes a Corvair turbo wagon.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/phoenix-all-four-car-projects/6954529699.html

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Locomobile said:

It will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay. A low price will sometimes turn buyers off, they see it as the seller doesn't believe it's worth much, so there must be something wrong with it. When I was a kid, my Dad was trying to sell a boat in the newspaper, he kept listing it for 800, nothing but people that didn't have the money and tire kickers responding. He waited a bit and relisted it for 1500, the first guy that showed up, bought it.

In the early 60's I helped a friend put rings in his '54 Ford flathead (Canadian).  He needed new tires and I lent him $300.00 for the tires.  The following year he said he couldn't pay me, would I take the car as payment.  I did and tried to sell it for $300.00.  Everyone wanted to know what was wrong with it, how come so cheap.  I waited six months and advertised it for $1100.00 OBO.  First guy along offered me #950.00.  The only car out of 15 or so that I ever made a profit on.

Between my Grandfather and myself we spent (purchase price and repairs) approximately $10,000.00 for 89 years and 500,000 miles of driving (59 as my daily driver).  I figure when I don't want to drive any more I will ask 3 or 4 thousand or just give it to someone.  I do not think it owes me anything.  My last expense was almost six thousand to overhaul the engine but that was paid for while I was working so I would not expect to get it back.

[auburnseeker]

Still plenty of 4 door corvairs out there to be had if one looks.  More than the demand for such ,  so don't expect to cash in on the 4 door craze just yet.  I don't even think that many good ones were stripped to restore more desirable 2 doors.  They may have been stripped before they sent them to the junkyard so they had spares,  which they never used,  but there are and have been piles of Corvair parts out there you still can't give away. 

The latest rage over 4 doors must be in small circles.  I still see them for 50 percent or less than their 2 door counterparts in many years and makes. 40's 50's 60's pick your era.   Mopar Ford Chevy.  It's doesn't matter. nice 57 Chevy 2 door hardtop lately dropping in value but around 30G.  Same in a 4 door sedan,  about low teens. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

MRCVS, I am somewhat surprised but honestly not shocked you are where you are with your A.

 

Sedans are a mixed bag, here in New England a lot of A guys like sedans for toting friends and family, touring late in the season, etc.  I have seen nice examples go in the high teens not that long ago.  I like them also but my hobby car limit is 2.

 

On the other hand, a lot of As have gone to market lately, a ton of tudors and a bit of everything else...  A lot of us here have As, and honestly would rather see a better price.  We are interested in the market but do not drive it. And its moving...

 

I think you could optimize your return but the reality, and I get it, is you just want it gone.  If you dont have time or it is not worth your detailing, marketing effort you will get a bit less.  

 

Keep us posted.  Meanwhile I intend to blow the T speedster cash on the A or maybe the SL. Over invested in both if that helps! 😊

Edited September 5, 2019 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Modeleh]

2 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Still plenty of 4 door corvairs out there to be had if one looks.  More than the demand for such ,  so don't expect to cash in on the 4 door craze just yet.  I don't even think that many good ones were stripped to restore more desirable 2 doors.  They may have been stripped before they sent them to the junkyard so they had spares,  which they never used,  but there are and have been piles of Corvair parts out there you still can't give away. 

The latest rage over 4 doors must be in small circles.  I still see them for 50 percent or less than their 2 door counterparts in many years and makes. 40's 50's 60's pick your era.   Mopar Ford Chevy.  It's doesn't matter. nice 57 Chevy 2 door hardtop lately dropping in value but around 30G.  Same in a 4 door sedan,  about low teens. 

Yes, exactly why I used the Corvair as a comparison.  The supply exceeds the demand just like Model A sedans particularly 4 doors.  Someone commented that the four door A is more desirable than the Tudor, I have to disagree with, again nobody is hot rodding 4 door As but lots Tudors are still getting butchered.  Also few people are restoring Fordors right now because there’s just so much extra wood in them and it’s cheaper to just buy one done, there’s lots around and little demand.  The OP has proven that with his experience trying to unload his.  Long story short, bodystyle matters.  Unless you’re talking about a Doble or something like that, as Jay says you have to take what comes available and be lucky to find it.

This is not about young people not liking old cars or the country being broke, it’s about trying to sell something with very little demand and average condition for a price that the market simply won’t bear.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Modeleh (see edit history)

[padgett]

+1 on 60. I've even bought new cars that became antiques. Tend to keep ones I like. OTOH I really like a DOHC 6 and have become common this century.

"Why does it have to be a young person who buys it?" anyone under 50 is a younker to me.

[mike6024]

It's a toy for a retired, middle class, blue-collar white male. And that is a declining demographic, it goes without saying.

[keithb7]

I love the oldies. Not sure if I am part of the young demographic or not. I’m 48. Probably not. 

 

I’m starting to realize my ‘38 Plymouth is currently being revived. Not restored. I’m poking away at it myself. Enjoying the heck out of the hobby. $20K paint and body work is not in the agenda. 

 

Market value to me is, law of supply and demand. Many folks like to look at my ‘38 four door sedan. They like it.  There’s none to be seen around here. However, desirable it ain’t. I know there will be few people willing to pony up much more than a low-ball offer, if I were trying to sell it. I’ll likely never recover just my actual parts costs. I do my own labor! It’s worthless. 

 

The times they are a changin’...

 

 

 

 

[cahartley]

Some don't "get" the two door thing and I am one of them.

I think the two door thing is some contrived thing that people have been conned into thinking "if it isn't a two door it isn't cool"......baloney.
My first car was a 2 door '59 Chevy two door Biscayne.

I didn't like the two door arrangement then and I don't like it now.

When I ask friends to go for rides I don't expect to have them be contortionists to get in and out of the car.

That's ironic as I have two two door sedans but the entire front passenger seat lifts out of the way giving a much wider entry.

I've loved 4 door Model A's since I actually saw one in real life.

I do not understand why this car has not sold....... 

 

 

[mrcvs]

11 hours ago, cahartley said:

I do not understand why this car has not sold....... 

Well, that makes 2 of us!

My wife keeps asking "why hasn't that car sold yet?"  I don't have an answer!

 

I had much more interest, but no offers, when I had this car offered for sale in the $11,000 to $12,000 range than now.  I dropped the price on Craigslist to $9500 and that accomplished nothing.

 

I was told verbally that the style most in demand was the Fordor as there aren't a ton of them out there, although not certainly rare, and they are comfortable to drive, easy to get in and out of...just plain practical.  That was also confirmed in a thread I posted a few months ago in the Model A section of the forum.

 

It has been mentioned that I need to be patient in selling this car.  How long?  5 or 10 years?  I've had it for sale for 2 or 3 months now and only casual interest.

 

ANYONE interested in mentioning this on Facebook on my behalf?  If so, at what price?  It still might be a $10,000 car bit advertised wrong.  Craigslist is for mostly newer cars.  EBay is for BS artists.

 

Next, maybe to Hemmings.  If so, where should I list it at there?

 

I know I've complained a lot, and maybe turned away many of you, but the folks on eBay and Craigslist don't know that.

 

Yes, I could go to Hershey with it, but it's likely easier for me to drive it there than to haul it.

 

I'm extremely small time!  Some of the questions I'm asked...I don't have the answers.  Growing up, I appreciated old cars from a distance.  I never had them nor did I have friends or relatives who had them.  Just drove an elderly boss in one from time to time in my late teens/early 20's.

 

I could put elbow grease into this one, but it can't hide everything.  You all have pointed out things I never noticed, such as the firewall looking like it's approaching 90 years of age.  It never bothered me before.  I bought this because it's all I could afford at the time.  Aren't there others just like me out there?  I couldn't afford to be picky, just wanted something to drive.  I had no idea selling a nice car like this would be nearly impossible.  It looked nice to me when I bought it.  Hasn't changed much since then except I've improved a few things.

Edited September 5, 2019 by mrcvs (see edit history)

[mercer09]

EBay is for BS artists.

 

could be and I know the sell through rate is prob not more then 40%, BUT  I did sell 3 cars on there in the last 2 months and was QUITE pleased with the prices they brought.  All were projects and in worse condition.

 

everything priced right sells, working from the top down, as Ive mentioned repeatedly, usually doesnt work and interest disappears...........

[Mark Wetherbee]

7 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I’ll likely never recover just my actual parts costs. I do my own labor! It’s worthless. 

 

The times they are a changin’...

 

I’m the same, there’s no way I could make money at this, but I’m enjoying the heck out of it!

 

 I am currently on a Model T Tour in Maine and very much on the younger side of the age scale at 53. Yes you are going to see a lot of cars in the market and not one will make a profit for the owner, but we have a couple in their 90’s still driving a car he’s had for 70 years and it brings back his youth.

 

 I just remembered, they “COURTED” in that car as I recall...

 

THAT is what it’s about.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Mark Wetherbee (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

MRCVS we can take another shot on fb.  Are you comfy with shas ring a phone or email?  I just dont want to be in the middle... 🙂

[Restorer32]

There are always anomalies. We are about finished with a full frame up restoration to original of a 1929 Model A Standard Fordor. Sentimental value goes a long way.

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

I could put elbow grease into this one, but it can't hide everything.  You all have pointed out things I never noticed, such as the firewall looking like it's approaching 90 years of age.  It never bothered me before.  I bought this because it's all I could afford at the time.  Aren't there others just like me out there?  I couldn't afford to be picky, just wanted something to drive.  I had no idea selling a nice car like this would be nearly impossible.  It looked nice to me when I bought it.  Hasn't changed much since then except I've improved a few things.

 

There's a quote for the little lady to embroider, frame, and hang over the fireplace.

[auburnseeker]

If you don't do alot in between buying and selling they look worse when you sell them than buy them.  The rose colored glasses have had time to come off and you now know all the flaws you didn't see when you bought it.  Even being very picky about things. I still miss them.  I always wished I could wax a car before buying it.  That would help point out all the little things you miss cosmetically.  Of course mechanically things always seem to develop right after you buy them once the band aids start falling off.   Happens with many cars,  even good looking ones,  that don't look needy.  

Just like a spouse,  only time exposes the flaws.  The question is if you can live wit them.  The cars are much easier and cheaper to move on from than the spouse. 

[mercer09]

just like a spouse............

 

 

damn straight!  HAHA

 

glad my wife doesnt read this site.

[MCHinson]

2 hours ago, mrcvs said:

 

My wife keeps asking "why hasn't that car sold yet?"  I don't have an answer!

 

 

I could put elbow grease into this one, but it can't hide everything.

 

If you don't want to do any work, I would suggest you find a local detail shop that does "paint correction" and see if they can do something about touching up the mismatched paint on the lower cowl area with something close. You could do it yourself by having a paint shop mix up some matching paint for about $20 and a touch it up with a couple of hours or less of work. I would also use some whitewall cleaner to clean the tires. Your photo that you have posted makes it look like the car has never been cared for. The mismatched paint and dirty white walls scream that the car has not been cared for or maintained properly. That might not be true, but it is the impression that you are broadcasting to a prospective buyer of the car with the photos that you have posted. For probably less than $50 and a Saturday afternoon's work, you should be able to fully detail it yourself and make it much more appealing. If I was in the market for another Model A Ford, having had many of them over the past decades, I would probably not even call you if I saw it advertised at just about any price with that mismatched paint on the cowl. That has probably discouraged many potential buyers.   

[Matt Harwood]

22 hours ago, 48Firetruck said:

I figured that's what happened as I've experienced that myself and because of that the price it sold for has zero reflection on what the car may or may not be worth. The top bid could have been a zillion dollars, still means nothing.

 

Yet every guy who ever calls on the car after that eBay auction will say, "Well, I see it only bid to $X,XXX on eBay, so I'll throw you a bone and do you a favor and pay [60% of $X,XXX]."

 

Once it's been through eBay, regardless of the outcome, it's marked. Look how many guys on this board say to look through the sold cars on eBay to get an idea of prices, never mind the fact that eBay only has like a 32% sell-through rate and most of those "sold" cars are not sold. I use eBay, but I don't like it and I rarely do auctions, just a fixed price listing. I don't need the aggravation of sport bidders and deadbeats, plus the car being marked for future bottom-feeders.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

17 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Here is a bargain 4 cars for one price. Even includes a Corvair turbo wagon.

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/phoenix-all-four-car-projects/6954529699.html

 

Well that's just plain cool. I'm a wagon guy and I don't think I've ever seen one of those before.

 

I see a Sunbeam Tiger next to it and a SIlver Shadow across the street, so it's a guy with great taste and no money who might be motivated sell the Corvair cheap in order to afford a new cap on one of the tire valve stems of the Rolls.

[Lebowski]

9 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

it's a guy with great taste and no money who might be motivated sell the Corvair cheap in order to afford a new cap on one of the tire valve stems of the Rolls.

 

^^^^^^  ^^^^^^

[60FlatTop]

"sport bidder, deadbeats, and  bottom-feeders. "

 

There is a lot of activity on the topic. I think an underlying feeling of empathy is what's driving it.

 

Seems like every time I bought a neat old car everyone wanted to buy it. Then when I decided to sell they all crawled into the woodwork.

 

One sure fire way to draw them out: Wipe the car down with light oil so it shines, park it behind the garage, and tape a piece of cardboard to the bumper saying "Not For Sale".

 

Oh, once I advertised a Willys pickup. The ad read "My wife says it has to go! But if it doesn't sell I get to keep it".

[mrcvs]

5 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

MRCVS we can take another shot on fb.  Are you comfy with shas ring a phone or email?  I just dont want to be in the middle... 🙂

Yes, that's not a problem.  I will PM you.

[mike6024]

Do you have any venue where you can take it locally, cars for sale by owner?

There may be some potential buyers who are not searching online, and haven't seen your car yet.

Even just a good high-traffic place to park it with a for sale sign on it might work.

I have this place locally, the fairgrounds parking lot on weekends is used for "car for sale by owner."

[kevin1221]

Any local car shows coming up? You may find someone there that would like to be its next owner.

 

As suggested earlier, Hemmings, both on line and print may also be helpful.

 

Good luck with the sale.

 

Kevin

[Buffalowed Bill]

I can count on one hand the number of cars that I did better then break even when I sold them. The days of the flipper who buys a cheap car, details it and sells it for a quick profit, are long gone. I was never one of them, and I don't pretend to know the market, and I hate to sell a car. I do however know my cars, and believe that, with very few exceptions, each would find a ready buyer. 

 

My mindset is that nothing is for sale, and people who know me understand that I mean it. When people view the collection, I tell them you can ask me any question, about any car, except how much is it worth, and is it for sale. The quick answer for all of them, is a firm, I don't know, and no it's not for sale. I try to say it nicely, but firmly. I do appreciate it when someone shows a special interest in a car. He will often be given the first shot at the car when I feel that the time is right.

 

Feeling that I have to sell a car is absolutely the wrong time to sell. That's where patience comes into play. The timing has to be right for me to sell, and the buyer has to be what I consider right for the car. I want what's best for the long term survival of the car, and part of the process is having a happy, grateful next owner. I usually don't know how much time is enough, but I really try to relax throughout the process. This is my hobby not my business. Stress is not something I search out, and certainly not in my hobby. It may fall on a deaf ear, but try to step back, take a deep breath and try to relax.

 

Bill

[mike6024]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:17 PM, Car-Nicopia said:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1929-ford-model-a-19/

 

Funny how it has several bids, but NO comments at this point. Usually the comments outnumber the bids by far.

 

Sep 5 at 12:51 AM
$5,700 bid placed by Firedan777

Sep 4 at 4:40 PM
$5,555 bid placed by marcwoodie

Sep 4 at 12:47 PM
$3,700 bid placed by Firedan777

Sep 4 at 10:41 AM
$3,200 bid placed by Steve2394

Sep 4 at 6:29 AM
$2,777 bid placed by Firedan777

Sep 4 at 12:43 AM
$1,929 bid placed by marcwoodie

 

[auburnseeker]

I don't know my A details real well,  but isn't that beige one a 29?  Seems if it was they would have commented on that. 

[Matt Harwood]

6 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

Funny how it has several bids, but NO comments at this point. Usually the comments outnumber the bids by far.

 

Sep 5 at 12:51 AM
$5,700 bid placed by Firedan777

Sep 4 at 4:40 PM
$5,555 bid placed by marcwoodie

Sep 4 at 12:47 PM
$3,700 bid placed by Firedan777

Sep 4 at 10:41 AM
$3,200 bid placed by Steve2394

Sep 4 at 6:29 AM
$2,777 bid placed by Firedan777

Sep 4 at 12:43 AM
$1,929 bid placed by marcwoodie

 

 

 

The guys on bringanitpicker.com don't know anything about cars built before the '60s. They'll point out that a 1969 280SL has the orange throttle return spring instead of the proper green one, because everyone knows that Klaus was working on the line on that particular Thursday and therefore that particular car was probably in a head-on collision with a semi truck and then a building fell on it and burned to the ground, so it's worth a fraction of the asking price. They know this because they had a neighbor who worked in a shop where one of the other mechanics one saw an identical car driving down the road in 1971.

But put up something other than a '60-80s European sports car and you get silence or fawning. Bunch of armchair quarterbacks.

 

So glad to see that Hemmings.com has adopted the exact same format for their "auction" program. Guess there's another service I'll never use. At least Hemmings' "auction" listings kick the ads I'm paying for off the first page of search results, which is nice.

[CarNucopia]

16 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I don't know my A details real well,  but isn't that beige one a 29?  Seems if it was they would have commented on that. 

 

It is listed as a ‘29.

 

3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

 

So glad to see that Hemmings.com has adopted the exact same format for their "auction" program. Guess there's another service I'll never use. At least Hemmings' "auction" listings kick the ads I'm paying for off the first page of search results, which is nice.

 

My first reaction when I saw Hemmings was getting in the auction business was this move was bound to piss-off their current customers. I just don’t see how this offering works out for them.

[Matt Harwood]

21 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I don't know my A details real well,  but isn't that beige one a 29?  Seems if it was they would have commented on that. 

 

It seems to have a drum taillight, red steering wheel, and center-mounted E-brake, which I believe would make it an early '28. Looks indifferently restored but at least the colors are awful.

[mercer09]

 

My first reaction when I saw Hemmings was getting in the auction business was this move was bound to piss-off their current customers. I just don’t see how this offering works out for them.

 

many magazines are going out of business, due to subscriber loss........... they are most likely desperate.

[auburnseeker]

As I said I don't know my A's real well.  I thought all 29 and back had this style cowl.  

I see a bunch of sedans had the more modern style cowl. 

Anyone know why they were different? 

[Matt Harwood]

1928 and 1929 are, for the most part, almost identical, and the 30-31s are visually identical to each other, too. Two distinct looks, in pairs, over four years. Small detail changes from year-to-year, but the sheetmetal and major components are the same for each pair of years. There are very knowledgeable Model A guys who can recite the list of changes month-by-month but visually, the 28-29 cars match and the 30-31 cars match. Just at a glance, smaller, more rounded radiator shell and fenders that hug the front tires are distinctive to the '28-29s (as shown above), while a taller, squared-off radiator shell and hood, plus more open fenders, identify the '30-31s.

 

1928-29:

 

1930-31 ('31s are particularly easy to spot because of the painted insert at the top of the radiator shell which should match the body--the lower one is typically black, however):

 

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

As I said I don't know my A's real well.  I thought all 29 and back had this style cowl.  

I see a bunch of sedans had the more modern style cowl. 

Anyone know why they were different? 

 

The exception in 1928 - 29 4 door sedan's  are the Briggs " leatherback's ".  Blind 1 / 4,  4 door sedans with a unique cowl and hood along with the rest of the body.  They are somewhat rare. In restored or very good original condition they generally seem to sell in the upper region of sedan prices, not that that is saying much these days. They have a particularly wood intensive body structure so are a major undertaking to restore which may contribute to the highish price. Or at least highish in the context of 5 - 10 years ago, these days who knows. 

 I have one in one of my sheds. Very decent metal but the wood is a disaster. 10 years ago it might of been worth as much as $1000.00 , these days probably close to scrap. I gave a friend who was moving and had no space for it $200.00 delivered. At the time I thought why not ? These days it's just another piece of junk I trip over from time to time while  looking for something I need from the shed.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited September 6, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[mercer09]

28 and 29 look more like a T and the 30-31 had the new styling. Henry had to compete with the new for 29, 6 cylinder Chevy.

so wheels are larger on 28-29, and bumpers are straight on 30-31. Also Henry offered almost 2x the amount of different bodies in 30-31. Expanding into vickys, deliveries, cabriolets in 29 and the A 400 and model 68 for 30-31.

 

He had to capture the publics interest to stay relevant into the depression........

[mike6024]

[DLynskey]

7 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

As I said I don't know my A's real well.  I thought all 29 and back had this style cowl.  

I see a bunch of sedans had the more modern style cowl. 

Anyone know why they were different? 

 

 

The 4-door models had the smooth cowl in 1928 and 1929 as did the cabriolet and town car. I believe these bodies were built not by Ford but by Murray and Briggs

 

 

The 1928 and 1929 Two door, roadster, touring car, pickup, etc. had the older style cowl

 

 

There was one 4-door sedan body style that had the old style cowl in 1928 and 1929. Do you know what it was? I'll post the answer in an hour if no one comes up with it. It's very rare.

 

This is it.

 

 

The Taxi, for some reason did not use the regular 4-door sedan body but had a body all its own with the old style cowl. Making the taxi unique was that it had a divider window behind the driver and also at the driver's right side so that the driver was essentially in a glass box isolated from the passengers. The front passenger seat was turned around facing backwards. Having heavy use few taxis have survived. This one was never in commercial use. According to the story at the time this photo was taken (1963) it was bought, in Alabama if memory serves, by a man who loved to smoke cigars as much as his wife hated them. This way he could sit by himself and puff on his stogies while chauffeuring his wife and her lady-friends in (relatively) smoke free comfort.

 

I've often thought about this car when I was younger and traveling with a wife, 3 kids and a Labrador Retriever.  Somebody like Nash or Studebaker should have built one with this arrangement.

 

Don

Edited September 6, 2019 by DLynskey
Added photo (see edit history)