Not Disappointed!!!

[mrcvs]

Edit:  My car has sold!  THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT!   👍 I have to say, I am rather disappointed...and no surprise why younger folks just aren't that interested in the hobby, and it's hurting!

 

Here I have a 1930 Model A Ford for sale, have dropped the price now to $9500 on Craigslist, a few inquiries, but still very little interest.  I'm told $11k is a fair price for this car.  Apparently not.

 

The car runs fine, it's solid, does need repainting and minor body work, has a rebuilt engine.  Inquires are basically, did Schwalm do the engine?  I have since learned that that's a $6000 endeavour!

 

What's wrong with folks?  You actually think I would sink $6k into this car and still ask only $9500?

 

No surprise why there's no young blood in this hobby, and it is full of folks who have unrealistic expectations (want perfect cars, slow to open up their wallets).

Edited September 11, 2019 by mrcvs
No longer disappointed! (see edit history)

[Mark Wetherbee]

I usually don’t get sucked into this kind of BS story, but since you are asking for it I figure why not...

 

Your car might have been nice years ago, but that splotchy paint in the cowl is probably hiding a rust issue that is well known in A’s and not inexpensive to repair properly, the lineup between the front and rear door looks to be off by a solid 1/4” which adds to the concern of any potential buyers, although the generator might work fine it looks like rusty sh*t which makes me concerned about what else is going to be an issue under the hood. Quick observations from two pictures, added to all this is that it’s a Fordor as opposed to an open car which I love but there’s not a lot of interest in. It’s a hard sale.

 

A couple years ago I sold a roadster and a phaeton both being priced in the mid teens, that roadster had a fresh engine in it from George King who was as reputable as Schwalm or J&L etc.

 

Just my opinion, but you are overly optimistic that you have a highly desirable car, and I believe it’s going to take you a long time to find that right buyer, crying about it ain’t going to work...

Edited September 3, 2019 by Mark Wetherbee
Toned it down some (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I would add to Mark's comments that you also admit it needs a paint job.  If you did the paint yourself, you'd still have $1500 or more tied up in materials, with the high cost of paint these days.  

 

If you had someone else do it, then $5000 would be cheap (and it'd probably have to be a relative or someone you had compromising pictures of to get it done at that price).

 

So, paint alone can kill any interest in the car at your price point.  Sad, but with the high cost of restoration these days, any car that's deemed a "project" (i.e. needing paint or upholstery or major sorting out) will go wanting in the marketplace.

 

I hope you find a good home for it, but I agree that you may be a little optimistic, from your end, on the price point.

[Matt Harwood]

This discussion again?

[Locomobile]

I'm no Model A expert, but I would think the dayglow green wheels are diminishing it's appeal to a potential buyer. If I was trying to sell it I would repaint the wheels gloss black and give it broader appeal.

 

Cool old car, though. Hang in there, just have to find the right buyer.

 

-Ron

[mrcvs]

9 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

This discussion again?

Well, I am at a low price and still no takers.

 

I realize it needs repainting and that all costs.  But buyers are unrealistic.  Sink 5 to 8 k into it and have a 20k car.

 

Sad to say, but what an awful hobby.

[jan arnett (2)]

As they say in real estate it has no curb appeal.  If you sell a house they tell you to freshen it up.  The firewall would turn me off without looking at the rest of the car.  Look at it from a potential buyer and what does he see when he walks up to it,

 

[mrcvs]

Do buyers really expect to get a car like this for 4k????

 

Doors don't sag, redone engine, fairly solid car.

 

My wife has backed off on getting rid of it immediately, but it still has to go.  It can't sit outside in the winter.

[CarNucopia]

14 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

Do buyers really expect to get a car like this for 4k????

 

 

 

Yes. Maybe less.

Anyone seriously looking for a Model A know the prices will continue to fall. They want to pay less to get in front of the trend and don’t want to put money in to a car that will only depreciate. 

It’s not an awful hobby, it’s a marketplace telling you what reality is.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Car-Nicopia (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

Any car is worth what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller on that particular day. I have  owned a very similar Model A Ford in the past. It is looks like a great old car to drive and enjoy. It is not a show car. To make it a show car will take more cash than what it would sell for after the restoration. There are lots of Model A Fords out there. If you want to sell it, it can be sold ,but not for the amount that you apparently want to get for it. I would assess the car as being somewhere between a number 4 and number 3 condition on the Old Cars Price Guide scale. Old Cars Price Guide puts a number 4 value at $4,800 and a number 3 value at $10,800. If I was in the market for a Model A like yours in that condition, I would expect it to probably be about a $7,000 to $8,000 car. As has been pointed out, it is a great hobby and from where I am, I see the hobby flourishing in the coming years but antique cars are seldom a good financial investment. Enjoy the hobby and don't expect a windfall when selling a hobby car when the time comes to sell. If you really want to sell it, take it to Hershey, put it in the Car Corral with $9,000 or best offer and see what happens. 

[Restorer32]

It's an "awful hobby" because you cannot recoup the money you spent? Do you golf? Travel? Collect comic books? Do you expect to recoup the money you spent on those hobbies? If you did not get enough enjoyment out of the car to offset the possible loss when you sell it maybe you picked the wrong hobby.

[1937hd45]

Overpriced for condition...……………….58 years in the hobby, what could I know? 

 

 

Bob 

[auburnseeker]

We had many good posts in the thread you had deleted ,  so I won't bother much with this one,  but it was all stated in the last thread very politely.   Maybe not as nicely this time after seeing all our responses and effort go poof.   That price I had in mind was right at around 8 and I still expect you need local exposure to sell it.  See what that $9500 you are asking can buy.  I'm starting to see next level cars creeping in at that price point and some don't need as much freshening. 

A good detailing will go a long way. Clean the white walls, give the thing a polish.  It will give a potential buyer,  the idea you take care of not neglect the car.  That's why the car dealers do it. IT's not because they like cleaning up old wrecks. Fresh photos on a sunny day with a little chrome sparkle help alot.  

Would you rather buy a car that looks like this or the second photo? 

You are trying to sell the car on how much fun it will be.  not how much work the next owner is going to need to put into it. 

[padgett]

One thing, the modern generation wants instant gratification and the approval of their peers. To them a car like this should be in front of a nightclub or restaurant: a decoration and nothing more. Also unless a high end exotic, a car is an appliance & transportation at least cost & main criteria is how easy it is to park. For them a Ford (did they call them "Fordor"s back then, not my field) is too big and is too slow and what is a clutch ?

 

I just sold a nice Reatta Convertible that needed nothing for considerably less than I had in it. Suspect part of the issue is that Hagerty appraisals are more what cars should be insured for then what they are actually worth.

 

Auburn's Caddy is a great example of something interesting that can keep up with modern traffic, most were automatics, and some even had A/C. I still would like a '57 3/4 size caddy with suicide doors and dual quads but is now in the same category for me as a Facel-Vega HK-500 - unlikely.

Edited September 3, 2019 by padgett (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

 

[John348]

2 hours ago, mrcvs said:

Well, I am at a low price and still no takers.

 

I realize it needs repainting and that all costs.  But buyers are unrealistic.  Sink 5 to 8 k into it and have a 20k car.

 

Sad to say, but what an awful hobby.

 

The price might be low and fair to you, but obviously not to the potential buyers.  To make that car in the 20 K range it would require more around 15-20 K, and that is providing the engine was rebuilt correctly and not requiring another rebuild, and some club hardware on the radiator would not hurt the value either. Do you think that the potential buyers are feeling that the seller is unrealistic? 

 

It is far from an awful hobby, and take exception to that comment. One thing that makes this hobby unique, and I have said this before is that it is the only hobby that everyone feels they have to turn a profit. 

Good luck

[mrcvs]

How do you even see what others like this sell for?  Craigslist only has my local market with limited similar cars for sale.  Hemmings is all I know, and that's more national and high end.

 

I never represented this car as a show car.  It's a fun driver.

[mrcvs]

Also how do I get this to Hershey?

[Digger914]

What I see here is a frustrated seller with classic car that isn't selling with a craigslist add and all I can say is don't blame the 30 something younger age group for their lack of interest in a craigslist add for a car built in the 30's.

 

Instant gratification and things that are shinny appeal to all age groups and a car that isn't prepped and ready for sale isn't going to bring top dollar in any age group, A car doesn't need to be perfect to sell fast for a decent price, but it does need to look like it's worth more than the asking price and craigslist is great for selling a lot of thing, but facebook is where you post when you want to find the "younger folks" .

[auburnseeker]

Oh there is profit to be made,  but often it involves a ton of luck #1,  alot of sweat equity, a bunch of know how, then find a "diamond in the rough" that needs more sweat than money to bring it up a grade.  My wife usually laughs of all the cars I have sold,  and really not that many compared to alot of car guys, She says so in the end you made a wage and didn't really make any money on that one.  I say yup,  but I got to have it and fix it up for a while,  now on to the next. 

It's all about starting with an undervalued car that you bought from the previous owner that was often to lazy to do the work to make it better them selves to get the full value out of it.  Really no different than a car dealer does on a late model car,  though that is also much more complicated with the new fuzzy math financing they can swing where we have to find a buyer with cash in had. 

[60FlatTop]

6 hours ago, mrcvs said:

it is full of folks who have unrealistic expectations (want perfect cars, slow to open up their wallets).

 

From my introduction to the hobby to the present, with few exceptions, I have always viewed as bunch of grouchy old farts who didn't like nothing unless they could steal it. Then brag to their cronies about the deal they got... if they would even tell what they paid.

 

I was very young when my grandfather pointed out the man with a pocket full of fish hooks, and I always remember that and smile when I walk through Hershey.

 

Each successive generation seems to find fault with everything about their replacements and they all turn out the same.

 

These "young un's" will buy when they can steal it and use the untaxed money from under the mattress like the old farmer did to buy his car.

 

Each generation starts out bad and ends up brilliant.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, mrcvs said:

I realize it needs repainting and that all costs.  But buyers are unrealistic.  Sink 5 to 8 k into it and have a 20k car.

 

If you are convinced of that go ahead and invest the 5-8k in it and sell if for 20k. Then you will make a profit instead of selling for a loss.  You also will have proved that buyers really are unrealistic.  I don't know a thing about your car but from experience I know a little about buyers. The number one thing I can tell you about buyers is they ultimately determine the value of your car.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[AzBob]

35 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

Also how do I get this to Hershey?

 

MRCVS, you have been advised in this thread and previous deleted thread to take it to the Hershey Car Corral. Since you are somewhat local to Hershey, I  would do whatever it takes to get it there. Rent a trailer. I too had a pre war car that was a tough sell, tried Craigslist etc. nothing. Entering it in the local car show car corral sold the car. Lots of exposure and potential buyers at a car corral. Nonetheless, it must be priced to sell.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by AzBob (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

7 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

If you are convinced of that go ahead and invest the 5-8k in it and sell if for 20k. Then you will make a profit instead of selling for a loss. 

 

I have a car that I have been planning to sell for about a year and a half, but I need to do about $1,000 of work to it before I can point to it and say "needs nothing". The difference in this car would mean about $3500 to me. The most important thing is selling a car that "needs nothing". Anything less is going to cost you. I will do the work to have a smoother sale.

[jan arnett (2)]

22 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

How do you even see what others like this sell for?  Craigslist only has my local market with limited similar cars for sale.  Hemmings is all I know, and that's more national and high end.

 

I never represented this car as a show car.  It's a fun driver.

Do you belong to MARC if you are looking for a place to sell.  People in the club know what the value is and will buy when the price is right.  I too take exception to your comment about the hobby.  I have been collecting for over sixty years and have met some of the nicest people in the world and if you do sell to some one outside of the hobby I plan on welcoming them to the hobby.  I also have two sons who collect and many grandkids who enjoy them.

[1937hd45]

Are you good with tools? If so take the accessory step plate off and  get rid of it or step up and buy two more and install in the PROPER location. That is the first tip that there are other problems with this vehicle. Buying public isn't as dumb as you think. Bob 

[mercer09]

Also how do I get this to Hershey?

 

go sign up with AAA for the free 100 mile tows and have it towed to Hershey...........

 

a car identical to your car sold up in Allentown about a yr ago for 4500. I didnt buy it because my plate was full. could your car be the car, expecting a nice ROI?

 

everyone was very polite on the last thread, surprisingly. now you have asked for and recd the truth. use it to your benefit and stop the complaining

 

a good reference is the sold cars on ebay-with that in mind, your car would sell for 7500-8500. with no problem, but 9500? no way..

[pont35cpe]

Older cars are too complicated for the younger generation. They only want things that are controlled by pushing a button.. They remind me of an old joke about money falling off the trees, "I`ll pick you up tomorrow, I ain`t working my first day"..

[1912Staver]

The younger generation seem to have much different old car interests than Model A's. My son and one of his friends think Nissan Sylvia's {240 SX's } are where it is at. Another friend is very partial to 2nd gen Firebirds.  Something like a Model A Ford makes about as much sense to them as a buckboard.

Even when I think of Model A's it is generally as a lightly modified Pickup, Roadster , or Touring. And I am in my early 60's. 

 Very few younger people can manage anything other than a car that can be both a hobby and a daily driver. There are always a few young people that are interested in their grandfathers or great grandfathers car but they seem to be quite few in number.

 Your potential market is almost certainly someone 50 and up. And in my experience few people in that age group are expanding their hobby car ownership. I know a number of people in my general age category that want to downsize. I know a few people that have bought hobby cars over the last year or so. Generally one quite nice car following the sale of a few secondary  cars or project cars.

 I have nothing against Model A's. However there are always a number of them on the market so buyers are becoming very choosy.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited September 3, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

51 minutes ago, 48Firetruck said:

And for what it's worth, IMO, Craigslist is all but dead. I seldom ever look there anymore for anything. Facebook Marketplace is free, safer, easier to communicate with the seller and it's linked to literally hundreds of club and car enthusiast pages where your car will be exposed to thousands of people who are actually interested in that type as opposed to Craigslist where you might get 2-3 people who see your ad only because they took the the time to type "Model A" into the search bar.

 

Don't you have to be a Facebook member to use Facebook marketplace ? Safer ??? I am sure there are riskier sites out there than Facebook , but from what I have heard in general about it I can't imagine anyone belonging to it and exposing themselves to all the baggage that comes along with membership.

 Any good reason Facebook users would be any less flakey than Craigslist users ?

 

Greg in Canada

Edited September 3, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

The single biggest thing that makes this hobby suck is the fact that everyone thinks it should be profitable. It is not. It never has been. Somewhere along the line people just assumed that cars getting older also means they're getting more valuable. Like most things, value is subjective and it's just as likely that prices will go down as go up. As they say in the stock market: past performance is no indicator of future gains. If you own a 55-57 Chevy or Thunderbird or a dozen other formerly blue-chip "collector" cars, you're already upside-down. Model As are in the same boat.

 

Do you expect to make money when you go on vacation? Do the guys who golf or fish or boat or whittle things out of wood expect to get their money back when they're done? Do the guys who watch sports or play video games or join virtual sports leagues expect to make a little cash for their efforts? Do guys who build models expect to sell them for a profit? Do guys who play softball figure they can sell their mitts back to the store when they're done for full retail plus a little extra because they broke it in and oiled it?

 

Why are old cars special? Why do they need to be profitable? Spend your money, have your fun, and you still get A LOT of your money back! What other hobby even does that much for its participants? None, that's how many. If you sell your car for half what you paid for it, the fun you had STILL only cost you $0.50 on the dollar. Walt Disney World sure as hell isn't giving people 50% rebates after they get home.

 

Honestly, how much time have you really spent on the car to get it ready? Everyone here is right--spend a weekend really cleaning and detailing that thing like your life depends on it. Get a cleaner wax and go over the entire car carefully. Yes, your rags will turn green and black, that's the point. You're uncovering fresh paint, removing oxidation, and bringing out the shine. Do it by hand and you won't hurt anything, don't use a machine. See if you can find some paint that matches better than the John Deere green spray can someone used to touch up the cowl and roof. Degrease the engine and get some Ford Green engine enamel and brush-touch the areas that are flaking and if they're rusty, hit it with a Scotch-Brite pad before you dab the paint on. Paint that rusty generator--just plain satin black would be fine. Clean the firewall as best as you can without removing paint. Clean the fuel stains off the carburetor (I can't see them, but I know they're there). If the exhaust manifold is rusty hit it with a wire brush and paint it satin black with the high-heat exhaust paint. Get those whitewalls white--I mean REALLY white. I can't see the interior but I presume it needs vacuuming, so do that. I bet the instrument panel is tarnished, so go after that with some Nevr-Dull or very fine steel wool. And lose the mud flaps.

 

All that is stuff that you can do that primarily costs time and not much money. Presentation matters--look at Auburnseeker's post with the same Cadillac before and after. Why do I have a full-time detailer on staff? Presentation matters and the moment you give someone an out, they're moving on to the next car.

 

Everyone says that young people are ruining the hobby. You know what really ruins the hobby? People trying to get all their money back plus the money they spent on repairs/maintenance/storage/insurance along the way plus a little profit just because.

 

THAT is what sucks about the hobby.

[coachJC]

I will let the picture speak for itself

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by coachJC (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

45 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

The single biggest thing that makes this hobby suck is the fact that everyone thinks it should be profitable. It is not. It never has been. Somewhere along the line people just assumed that cars getting older also means they're getting more valuable. Like most things, value is subjective and it's just as likely that prices will go down as go up. As they say in the stock market: past performance is no indicator of future gains. If you own a 55-57 Chevy or Thunderbird or a dozen other formerly blue-chip "collector" cars, you're already upside-down. Model As are in the same boat.

 

Do you expect to make money when you go on vacation? Do the guys who golf or fish or boat or whittle things out of wood expect to get their money back when they're done? Do the guys who watch sports or play video games or join virtual sports leagues expect to make a little cash for their efforts? Do guys who build models expect to sell them for a profit? Do guys who play softball figure they can sell their mitts back to the store when they're done for full retail plus a little extra because they broke it in and oiled it?

 

Why are old cars special? Why do they need to be profitable? Spend your money, have your fun, and you still get A LOT of your money back! What other hobby even does that much for its participants? None, that's how many. If you sell your car for half what you paid for it, the fun you had STILL only cost you $0.50 on the dollar. Walt Disney World sure as hell isn't giving people 50% rebates after they get home.

 

Honestly, how much time have you really spent on the car to get it ready? Everyone here is right--spend a weekend really cleaning and detailing that thing like your life depends on it. Get a cleaner wax and go over the entire car carefully. Yes, your rags will turn green and black, that's the point. You're uncovering fresh paint, removing oxidation, and bringing out the shine. Do it by hand and you won't hurt anything, don't use a machine. See if you can find some paint that matches better than the John Deere green spray can someone used to touch up the cowl and roof. Degrease the engine and get some Ford Green engine enamel and brush-touch the areas that are flaking and if they're rusty, hit it with a Scotch-Brite pad before you dab the paint on. Paint that rusty generator--just plain satin black would be fine. Clean the firewall as best as you can without removing paint. Clean the fuel stains off the carburetor (I can't see them, but I know they're there). If the exhaust manifold is rusty hit it with a wire brush and paint it satin black with the high-heat exhaust paint. Get those whitewalls white--I mean REALLY white. I can't see the interior but I presume it needs vacuuming, so do that. I bet the instrument panel is tarnished, so go after that with some Nevr-Dull or very fine steel wool. And lose the mud flaps.

 

All that is stuff that you can do that primarily costs time and not much money. Presentation matters--look at Auburnseeker's post with the same Cadillac before and after. Why do I have a full-time detailer on staff? Presentation matters and the moment you give someone an out, they're moving on to the next car.

 

Everyone says that young people are ruining the hobby. You know what really ruins the hobby? People trying to get all their money back plus the money they spent on repairs/maintenance/storage/insurance along the way plus a little profit just because.

 

THAT is what sucks about the hobby.

There better be some money in old cars, or your dealership will fail.

[Matt Harwood]

2 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

There better be some money in old cars, or your dealership will fail.

 

I am very upside-down on my personal cars. Margins on cars that I sell are something entirely different.

[Xander Wildeisen]

It is an industry/hobby/trade/market. Money is made everywhere with in the industry. If it just a hobby, learn the values of what you like, shop around and buy right, you will get your money back.

[1937hd45]

We haven't seen ant shots of the pristine original interior, have we?

[Locomobile]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Each successive generation seems to find fault with everything about their replacements and they all turn out the same.

 

Didn't Mark Twain state that when he was 15, he thought his father was the dumbest man alive, and when he turned 18 he couldn't believe how much the old man learned in just 3 years?

 

-Ron

[mrcvs]

2 hours ago, 48Firetruck said:

And for what it's worth, IMO, Craigslist is all but dead. I seldom ever look there anymore for anything. Facebook Marketplace is free, safer, easier to communicate with the seller and it's linked to literally hundreds of club and car enthusiast pages where your car will be exposed to thousands of people who are actually interested in that type as opposed to Craigslist where you might get 2-3 people who see your ad only because they took the the time to type "Model A" into the search bar.

It sure seems like it!  I started to do Facebook, and was alarmed at the folks it identified for me to contact.  I don't like that.  And so my Facebook experience lasted all of about a minute.

[mrcvs]

2 hours ago, mercer09 said:

Also how do I get this to Hershey?

 

go sign up with AAA for the free 100 mile tows and have it towed to Hershey...........

 

a car identical to your car sold up in Allentown about a yr ago for 4500. I didnt buy it because my plate was full. could your car be the car, expecting a nice ROI?

 

everyone was very polite on the last thread, surprisingly. now you have asked for and recd the truth. use it to your benefit and stop the complaining

 

a good reference is the sold cars on ebay-with that in mind, your car would sell for 7500-8500. with no problem, but 9500? no way..

You're on!  I think I will list it on Ebay on Saturday with an opening bid of $7000 and see where it goes!

 

I have had this one for over 5 years now.  I have over 9K into it.  I bought it for $8250.  I was hoping to at least break even.  You couldn't touch these for $8250 in 2014, so I thought it was a good price.

[mrcvs]

Now at $9299 on Craigslist...if anyone is interested.