This is going to HURT! Take a look at our new display car at AACA!

[George K]

[DFeeney]

I could picture "Phyllis Diller" driving it.

[3macboys]

I keep looking at the Spohn cars and think of Mr Beep which is owned local to me - that was the times and the style, just like history it can not be judged by today's standards but instead what was in vogue at the time.  

 

[JohnS25]

I can’t help but think of Homer Simpson 

[EmTee]

Sorry, but it makes me think of Hans Christian Andersen's story The Emperor's New Clothes...

[Dandy Dave]

Oh lawdy. My Wife is going to love it. 🤩

[31nash880]

I have a question.

Since each car was different, why does aaca frown at custom cars? Is it because he made more than one car? Many shops out there do that. So?

[Mark Shaw]

 

[Steve Moskowitz]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:12 PM, 31nash880 said:

I have a question.

Since each car was different, why does aaca frown at custom cars? Is it because he made more than one car? Many shops out there do that. So?

Not sure you understand AACA's mission or classes.  We do not frown on other types of cars, we just "stay in our lane".  There are plenty of clubs for modified cars.  We have several classes for cars that are prototypes, limited production, experimental, movie, historic, etc. that are not regular production cars.  Members apply to a committee to have such accepted into these classes.  The Spohn absolutely fits into this category but  Barris or Winfield creation most likely would not unless they were a movie car.  I sure love customs and had every issue of Car Craft, Rod & Custom etc. as a young man.  Still admire the craftmanship but most do not fit our criteria.

[alsancle]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:12 PM, 31nash880 said:

I have a question.

Since each car was different, why does aaca frown at custom cars? Is it because he made more than one car? Many shops out there do that. So?

 

It is the distinction between an established coachbuilder and a customizer.   99% of the time that is an easy distinction and the 1% like Barris proves the rule.

 

Spohn was a well known established coachbuilder prior to WWII.

 

The discussion about a Silver Ghost RR updated by Brewster in period was illuminating to me with regard to the number of guys that didn't understand the car was not considered "modified".

 

We have a forum member who owns 50s Spohn bodied car.   Maybe not beautiful but I think pretty cool and unique.  

[Belvedere]

Steve, the differentiation between Spohn and Barris (not familiar with Winfield) is indeed a very slippery slope, splitting hairs if you will.  Is it because Spohn was a German coachbuilder, and Barris an American "customizer", but still a coachbuilder of sorts?  Each took a chassis and powertrain of possibly earlier vintage, and built a custom body to a client's specifications.  Some may argue this 1957 Spohn is not as tasteful as a Barris creation, that is for the beholder to decide.  I refer you to the Monkeymobile.  And each was built for a different type of client.  I'm not sure if being a movie car should have any bearing on the acceptance by AACA.  I do understand the mission of AACA and agree we should stay in our lane.  But to say this Spohn is different from an authentically restored, or unrestored Barris, is indeed splitting hairs.

 

I am planning a road trip to the Headquarters to see this creation.

   

[Steve Moskowitz]

38 minutes ago, Belvedere said:

Steve, the differentiation between Spohn and Barris (not familiar with Winfield) is indeed a very slippery slope, splitting hairs if you will.  Is it because Spohn was a German coachbuilder, and Barris an American "customizer", but still a coachbuilder of sorts?  Each took a chassis and powertrain of possibly earlier vintage, and built a custom body to a client's specifications.  Some may argue this 1957 Spohn is not as tasteful as a Barris creation, that is for the beholder to decide.  I refer you to the Monkeymobile.  And each was built for a different type of client.  I'm not sure if being a movie car should have any bearing on the acceptance by AACA.  I do understand the mission of AACA and agree we should stay in our lane.  But to say this Spohn is different from an authentically restored, or unrestored Barris, is indeed splitting hairs.

 

I am planning a road trip to the Headquarters to see this creation.

   

We will have to agree to disagree on this topic.  Entirely different audience for a Barris creation and a coachbuilder's work.  Each has their place.  AACA's judging committee and board approved the class that allows movie cars so whether your or I agree, it is in place and is a non-judged class.  As to Gene Winfield, many would argue he was far more important than Barris in the world of custom cars.  His cars were meant mostly meant for the street and he is still running a shop today and working on cars despite I believe being in his 90's. He is an amazing craftsman.  

 

Glad you are coming to visit the Spohn!

[Belvedere]

Steve, I don't want to agree or disagree with you on this topic.  Certainly didn't want to ruffle feathers.  I was merely expanding on 31Nash's question in that some may not understand the difference between coachbuilder and customizer.  It can become fuzzy for me as well.  The end result is different and each has their place.  I prefer coachbuilt over a chopped and channeled "custom".  Maybe that's the difference between a custom coachbuilt body and a coachbuilt "custom", the end result.

 

I agree with Alsuncle that 99% of the time it is easy to distinguish coachbuilt vs. custom.

 

I'm Googling Gene Winfield now.

[pkhammer]

My understanding of a coachbuilder would be an entity that designs/builds bodies for an automotive manufacturer, therefore it is a factory car. A customizer on the other hand takes a automobile built by a manufacturer and creates his own look using home-built and/or parts from other existing automobiles. This in my opinion takes a perfectly good looking automobile and turns it into something hideous. In the case of the Spohn, the coachbuilder saved a step and just went for hideous from the factory. 😁

[LARRYCAROL]

How long will it be on display? 

[alsancle]

Coachbuilders typically have the following characteristics:

 

1.  Complete bodies on new bare chassis.

 

2.  Design renderings for prior approval by the customer.

 

3.  Work typically done on behalf a of a customer.

 

4.  Multiple examples of a single design sometimes on different chassis.

 

It is true that in the "survival" mode after the war some of the prewar coachbuilders where doing what could be considered high end customization on production bodies.   Derham is a good American example.    However, prior to WWII  both Spohn and Derham satisfied all 4 of the criterion I listed above.    In the case of Derham, even with customization they were doing design renderings post war.

[edinmass]

Maybe I can clarify the issue……….

 

IF I LIKE IT;  it’s coachbuilt and ok to display at headquarters………..if I don’t like it;  it’s a custom and doesn’t qualify as a AACA acceptable automobile. 😉

 

To be fair, AJ’s descriptions are probably better than I could opine. Nomenclature isn’t always easy to define.

 

I think the abomination that started this thread and is currently being displayed at headquarters is fairly called a Post War Coachbuilt car. Obviously when it was built, it was ugly by anyone’s definition. So there must’ve been a reason for what they did. It’s  reminds me of today’s people obsessed with taking selfies of themselves and posting it on social media…….. what we call the      “ look at me” generation. 
 

When Bortz said it would be a winner at Pebble………..please. I know Joe also, that’s called “puffing” the car to help it find a new owner. Joe has owned a bunch of cool and great stuff. I can’t imagine he would own anything so ugly unless he was flipping it.

Edited June 26, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Here is a link on postwar Spohn worth reading.

 

https://www.undiscoveredclassics.com/sport-customs/hermann-spohn-coachbuilder-by-wayne-r-graefen/

[alsancle]

We have a forum member who owns one of these cars.   His is better looking than the subject car. 

 

 

[edinmass]

4 minutes ago, alsancle said:

We have a forum member who owns one of these cars.   His is better looking than the subject car. 

 

 

Better looking isn’t a difficult achievement………

 

 

 

 

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Coachbuilders typically have the following characteristics:

 

1.  Complete bodies on new bare chassis.

 

2.  Design renderings for prior approval by the customer.

 

3.  Work typically done on behalf a of a customer.

 

4.  Multiple examples of a single design sometimes on different chassis.

 

It is true that in the "survival" mode after the war some of the prewar coachbuilders where doing what could be considered high end customization on production bodies.   Derham is a good American example.    However, prior to WWII  both Spohn and Derham satisfied all 4 of the criterion I listed above.    In the case of Derham, even with customization they were doing design renderings post war.

How about Creative Industries in Detroit?  They did lots of factory authorized modifications to a production car to either make it a concept/syling study, or a show vehicle.   As well, they supplied body parts for certain cars that did make limited production, which I believe the nosepiece on the Daytona/Superbird is an example.

 

Craig

[alsancle]

9 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

How about Creative Industries in Detroit?  They did lots of factory authorized modifications to a production car to either make it a concept/syling study, or a show vehicle.   As well, they supplied body parts for certain cars that did make limited production, which I believe the nosepiece on the Daytona/Superbird is an example.

 

Craig

 

A.O. Smith Corporation assembled the 69 Shelby Mustangs which is a similar situation.    I'm going to add to my list the requirement that the coachbuilder has a badge or label on the body somewhere to get credit.   Otherwise they are just an assembler as opposed to a design/build company which is the spirit of coachbuilding.

[John_S_in_Penna]

17 hours ago, alsancle said:

I'm going to add to my list the requirement that the coachbuilder has a badge or label on the body somewhere to get credit.   

It's good to try to make a distinction, but it's difficult.

Locomobiles with custom bodies--among the earliest

to have that service--didn't necessarily have coachbuilders' badges.

 

To me, a 1976 Chevrolet Chevette would be 10 times

more interesting in our lobby than that Spohn assemblage

of mismatched parts.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Regarding identification of a coach builder: Cantrell the station wagon builder of Huntington, NY used a decal on the center door post inside or sometimes on the wood head liner slats up near the windshield header. Some cars ( especially British) used a door sill plate with their name on it, so in order to see it you had to open the door.

Walt

Edited June 28, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

To me, a 1976 Chevrolet Chevette would be 10 times

more interesting in our lobby than that Spohn assemblage

of mismatched parts.

As long as its from the Brazilian factory, without the ugly 5-mph bumpers at each end.    That way, it shows GM actually made a 'world car' didn't have to look bad.

 

Craig

[Belvedere]

If the Spohn is accepted into Class 35 as it should be, and the owner displays it on the showfield at the Hershey Fall Meet, I expect it will draw a crowd all-day-long!  It will certainly be one of the show's highlights.

[Steve Moskowitz]

The Spohn has been VERY will received here in the building and on most of social media.  We knew it would be polarizing but it is still part of automotive history and for that we are grateful. We are happy for the folks that appreciate it and those that hate it are within their rights.  Be a dull world if everything looked the same.  John, nothing wrong with a Chevette but don't expect to see one in our lobby any time soon!  

[BlueDevil]

Speaking of a dull world, I was surrounded by Tesla's yesterday. Blue, black, red, and white.

[AC Fuhrman]

It's much nicer than my Spohn - OR my Duesenberg for that matter.....

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[58L-Y8]

What strikes me is how plain and ordinary the 1957 Spohn is through the central body section disregarding the outlandish front and rear styling.

[hook]

On 6/22/2023 at 4:58 PM, Marty Roth said:

I have one or two of those rubber models around here somewhere,

and yes, one can see Buick LeSabre in the design.

 

So, I wouldn't need to stick my orange (?) Union 76 Ball on the antenna, just like dozens of others in the same lot?

What antenna? haha

[TAKerry]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:04 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

It's good to try to make a distinction, but it's difficult.

Locomobiles with custom bodies--among the earliest

to have that service--didn't necessarily have coachbuilders' badges.

 

To me, a 1976 Chevrolet Chevette would be 10 times

more interesting in our lobby than that Spohn assemblage

of mismatched parts.

 

 I have seen hundreds if not thousands of Chevettes. My GF in HS even had one so I have some experience behind the wheel of that veritable street machine. I have never seen a Sphon (Yet). Agree with Steve on this one, Chevettes are an interesting sight at a meet, but not sure one needs to be in the lobby.

[Terry Bond]

I saw it this past weekwhile on the AACA Divisional Tour (hosted by the AACA Library).  To me it looks a lot better in person.  I thought it was an interesting automobile and would certainly call it a historic representation of era styling.  Displaying it at HQ is not a problem with me.  I'd love to see it featured in Antique Automobile and/or Crankshaft!

Terry

[Paul Dobbin]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:50 PM, 31Buick96S said:

Interesting conglomeration. Like many cars of the late 50’s, fins and jet plane styling seem to have been tacked onto the car. Not to my taste, but interesting nonetheless.

  Yeah, a Jet plane with 56 Ford Tall Light lens covering the exhaust post.

[philip roitman]

Will drop by this week on our trip to the Lancaster area. Looking forward to seeing my grandsons reaction.

[philip roitman]

 

 

 

 

Thursday 7-6-23. Visit with Grandson and wife.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by philip roitman (see edit history)

[StillOutThere]

Howdy, One look at my avatar will tell you I am the "forum member who owns a Spohn". And it is "SpOhn" pronounced like "phone". Spohn is a German family name, as is my own. The article in Undiscovered Classics is my piece done early in my '52 Spohn ownership and research. That article answers most of the questions that have been bantered about in above posts.

The AACA currently displayed car is visibly the most controversial of the handful (literally five) existing Spohn Customs and its prior display for decades in the Florida Dezer collection went virtually unnoticed. I would be more than happy to fill in any blanks club headquarters has about the Spohn Karosserie (GER spelling) but will defer to owners Carini and Murano on their own car as I have yet to see it myself in person.

There are certainly difficulties in "categorizing" the Spohn Customs. The carosserie was a world class coachbuilder serving Maybach from 1923 to marque closing due to WWII, but did take on limited other contracts. The only corporate contract of any significance when trying to survive in post-war Germany was that for Veritas cars, both road and race. Interestingly, two Veritas race cars returned to Spohn after competition collisions to be made into Spohn Customs. The former Waksler car is the survivor of those two.

The singular concept about these customs which is foundational to understanding is that standard production car came into Spohn at their owner's desire to have them customized in the evolving styles being shown at early 50s auto shows as well as in the "new" rod and custom car magazines in every serviceman's locker and hidden behind every high schooler's history book. The car's owner stood there with the manager /owner of Spohn, Joseph Eiwanger, Jr., and chose design elements to create his personalized car from those magazines and other photographs. Eiwanger then did his best to meld those ideas cohesively into a producable vehicle from the craftsmen in his shop. Not every car owner made tasteful choices. However Harley Earl's '51 GM dream car LeSabre's tail fins were a singular most popular choice. US-chassised cars almost all got a "new" popular OHV8 engine shortly after arrival at their US owner's home city.

Briefly, my car, with the given name "Spohn Palos", should you wish to do any net searching, was driven into Spohn as a 1940 Ford Standard coupe. It was disassembledd of sheetmetal to the chassis, saving the firewall as a starting and reference point. From there tubular structure was created to outline and support sheetmetal and all the acoutrements. Yes, Spohn employed production bits from other cars. There are parts from Horch, Porsche, Volkswagen, Kaiser and Taunus mixed in with those hand-crafted. Spohn apparently held a catalog from Lyon Mfg. in Detroit of their full wheelcovers as owners chose a variety of them, my car also receiving a set. Restoration of the Spohn Palos ongoing at Manns Restoration, Festus, MO.

For months, for unknown reason, I have been incapable of posting photos to AACA after years of abilty. No idea what is wrong. Point being I can't respond with phtos in answering and am very sorry about that. If desired, message me with your personal email and I can directly post pix back to you.

Thanks AACA and members for your interest in Spohn.
Wayne R. Graefen Edited July 11, 2023 by StillOutThere
Add my actual name (see edit history)

[Belvedere]

Well, I made the 140 mile road trip to the AACA Headquarters today to see the Spohn in person.  I was happy to view the car while discussing it with Steve.  Thank you for your time. it was worth the trip.  My impression is that for a 1957 custom-built vehicle with countless late '50's American styling cues, it doesn't hide the 1940's architecture.  In short, it looks very dated (old) by comparison to contemporary American cars.  In many ways it better reflects the less extravagant European automobiles of the period more familiar to this German coachbuilder.  The Spohn is an interesting choice for display.  Go see it if you can.

   

[StillOutThere]

AACA thread:
Spohn Carosserie Customs On US Chassis


https://forums.aaca.org/topic/175766-spohn-carosserie-customs-on-us-chassis/?do=getNewComment

[Gunsmoke]

I want to thank StillOutThere for the excellent write up on the Spohn cars, his Spohn Palos, and the Spohn Karosseier, who built these custom bodied automobiles. I appreciate the differentiation between a noted "Coachbuilder" who was rebodying chassis to customers preferences, and "Customizers" who typically take a car and shave/chop/lower, add and subtract to make one offs, sometimes made as a joke, such as the Batmobile, ADDams family hearse, etc, too many to mention. Hope SOT can find a way to post photos of his Spohn, perhaps a moderator can help with the issue.