Graham Man Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I am pretty sure most of us here love cars, some of us love history, most of us are mechanically inclined... I have reached a crossroads in my career, and it leaves me at a unique opportunity in my life, what to do next? I have been an engineer in several rolls, project, mechanical, quality, what ever my several companies have needed. I think over 25 years, I have been fairly successful. Thorough a strange turn of events, I am job searching, and was curious what careers some of you had pursued? I was toying with the idea of starting antique auto upholstery business (pre 1940), since they seem to have completely disappeared. ‘Find something you love to do and you’ll never have to work a day in your life.’ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I'll never forget this conversation that took place 20 years ago, a guy was thinking about starting a butcher shop in town. He was a shirt and tie guy, and maybe carving the Thanksgiving turkey was his carving limit. He was really depressed when he found out what a qualified experienced butcher needed to be paid. Auto upholstery is the last big expense in a restoration and most car owners are out of money by then. Top shelf work needs to be paid for, maybe the closed shops just got tired of the fight. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I suspect one of the most serious problems is sourcing correct fabric, and other materials . Early cars use leather on the seats themselves in many / most cases. But there is a vast array of non leather coverings , trims, under layers used as well. Once you get new enough to be in the fabric era the variations are endless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 How much (hands-on) experience you have with “antique auto upholstery” ? Are you intending to focus on “authentic” restoration of (pre 1940 ?) interiors or just do whatever the customers want you ? How large is your expected (local ?) customer base for the type of service you’re intending to provide ? Etc, etc, etc,… And same questions (& more) can be applied to pretty much any type business you might consider venturing into, but perhaps more so if contemplating something in the field of “antique” automobiles. I don’t know where you’re located, but here in SoCal there are thousands or more upholstery shops, most of them claiming to be experienced or specialize in antique/classic/etc cars and I can drive 15 minutes any direction from my shop to find couple of dozen of such, but I wouldn’t give them jobs on my clients (or my own) cars if they offered to do everything for free, materials included. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 David Coco, known as "Trimacar" on the forum, can tell you more about the automobile upholstery business than probably anyone else. I hope he sees your topic here. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I'm hesitant to answer this question as I know nothing about the automotive upholstery business, but I also worked at an engineering firm (five years, hated it) then started a music store which I ran for 17 years. I.e., I followed a passion. It was a struggle most of that time, but I'd had an intense interest in musical instruments since I was a kid, so I made it work (most of the time.) If the OP has been doing interior work since he was a kid or young adult as an avocation or serious hobby, I'd say there's a decent chance of not losing motivation as the years go by. If, on the other hand, he hasn't, and has just got into it recently as a peripheral aspect to his car hobby, then I'd be very skeptical of success. Just my opinion. I think I read somewhere that only one in twelve small businesses make it in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Talk to Dave. If you get good at it you will have work until the day you die. I'm 100% in favor of more skilled specialists. We are losing too many to retirement and old age. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 31 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said: David Coco, known as "Trimacar" on the forum, can tell you more about the automobile upholstery business than probably anyone else. I hope he sees your topic here. /\ /\ /\ What he said. Dave is a friend of mine that is great at what he does (did). I know he has slowed down and doesn't take on a lot of work any longer but if he did he'd have more work than he could handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 If it’s something you really want to do and you’ve done your due diligence in research & feasibility, then go for it. Do not let naysayers prevent you from doing it! If you go ahead, are located near Duluth, Mn or the Twin Cities, and need a helper, I’m in as long as 71 isn’t too old for a helper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 If you are experienced or can work in a shop to get that experience AND you are able to take a reduced salary most likely for awhile go for it. If you are done with engineering why not as long as you think you will enjoy it. I stayed on the computer business way to long. I would have loved to do custom saddle and tack work but family and financial requirements wouldn’t allow it. Have fun, let me know if you do it and want a car to showcase your work you can redo the 38 Studebaker. But please realize I still have financial considerations to resolve. dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) Yes, I would only do historically correct, it would take me a couple years to get up to speed, but I think a good time investment (and I might actually enjoy what I am doing, for a change). Best option would be to find someone to apprentice with? My kids and life are at an interesting crossroads, might be able to get by a couple years without much problem financially. Edited February 10, 2022 by Graham Man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Graham Man, you might tell us where you are located. New England? New Zealand? New Hebrides? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Graham Man said: Yes, I would only do historically correct Which would limit the market a lot. i.e no hot rodders Go and talk to auto upholstery business's in say a 100 mile radius of where you live. Just drive up to the shop in an old car From https://draft.blogger.com/profile/03769935210675871915 Edited February 11, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Move to Massachusetts (gag - I can't believe I said that) you will have more work than you can handle. If you can do good correct work. There are lots of guys that throw something in a hot rod, but few (we have one) that can do correct prewar work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikefit Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 When I retired ( fired after 25 yrs) I thought of going into neon lightning I talking sign repair window lighting. But thought no just set back and relax 20yrs later I wished I would have do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 It depends where you are located & how much capital you have to invest. I would Apprentice at a good shop first to see if it suits you. I am Fortunate. I know how each day Begins But never how it will End. I am starting my 16th year Telling Stories From The Road. Jim 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: I'll never forget this conversation that took place 20 years ago, a guy was thinking about starting a butcher shop in town. He was a shirt and tie guy, and maybe carving the Thanksgiving turkey was his carving limit. He was really depressed when he found out what a qualified experienced butcher needed to be paid. Auto upholstery is the last big expense in a restoration and most car owners are out of money by then. Top shelf work needs to be paid for, maybe the closed shops just got tired of the fight. Bob hit it on the head. My best friend was an auto upholsterer specializing in post war GM cars, nobody had any money left at that point of the restoration. He had a two Corvette Shops that fed him work so that kept cash flowing to a point. My buddy just got tired of the fight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34LaSalleClubSedan Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Plus you need young healthy Hands and good eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I retired from a career in engineering and engineering management two years ago, and now spend my days working full-time on my own antique auto collection. I restored a ‘32 Detroit Electric, and when it came time to upholster, I decided to try it myself. I had a coach/mentor; a very talented fellow nearby, a one-man shop who manages to keep his schedule full specializing in Bentley and Ferrari. Though I did most parts two or three times, the car turned out well enough to receive a class award at the Hilton Head Concours. To satisfy my own ambitions, I stuck to old-school methods and materials. I had three offers of professional work as an upholsterer as a result of doing that car. My total investment in upholstery was about $1600 in a new walking foot machine, $100 in a used steamer, and another $100 or so in various tools of the trade. I already had a good workspace and layout table. Bottom line: My observation is that there is a demand for such work, and my experience is that if you have enough patience, you can learn to do it. Your engineering background will serve you quite well in upholstery. Alot of it is being able to imagine the various pieces and how they fit and fasten together. I think you would find the work satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 I am located in the upper Midwest, not many shops still open around me in upholstery of any sort. I have been looking for a shops to do my Graham for 10 years, no luck, one gentlemen I met at "Back to the 50's" used to do pre 1930's car said he would do it just because he liked the car. I think he might be a great place to start. I also have about 1600 sq/ft heated shop, so nice working area. Might be the opportunity I am looking for... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 If you haven't taken the P. E. Exams due to in-house positions study up and take them. A lot of experience is aging out. Think what the hardest segments were in your practice and carve a niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, Graham Man said: ...one gentlemen I met at "Back to the 50's" used to do pre 1930's car said he would do it just because he liked the car. I think he might be a great place to start. At shows, I often see 1930's upholstery done incorrectly: The pleats are much too shallow. Pleats from the 1930's are very deep. When done incorrectly, they look like 1950's-style pleats done in 1930's fabric. Car collector Nicola Bulgari has his own upholstery shop (for his cars) in Pennsylvania; they do excellent and correct work. I toured it and saw how the work was done, with the cotton batting sewn in individual "pockets" for each pleat, and the various layers. A finished example was very comfortable to sit on! One of his knowledgeable men does some work on pre-war cars as a sideline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 How many hundreds of dollars does a cow hide cost, how long does take to sew 8 perfectly parallel pleats? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 8 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: If you haven't taken the P. E. Exams due to in-house positions study up and take them. A lot of experience is aging out. Think what the hardest segments were in your practice and carve a niche. PE is only necessary in certain areas of engineering (mostly Civil). Most industrial consulting doesn't require it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 9 hours ago, Graham Man said: I am located in the upper Midwest, not many shops still open around me in upholstery of any sort. I have been looking for a shops to do my Graham for 10 years, no luck, one gentlemen I met at "Back to the 50's" used to do pre 1930's car said he would do it just because he liked the car. I think he might be a great place to start. I also have about 1600 sq/ft heated shop, so nice working area. Might be the opportunity I am looking for... For The OP This may be your opportunity to give a new crack at a new career … 💡 Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 You might check with your state. In some states, upholstery shops have to be licensed. Pa is one of those states. There are companies that you can purchase authentic materials from, mostly manufactures, at reasonable prices, but that will require some searching and most times minimum purchase requirements. I've tried my hand at upholstery and have found that there is more to it than meets the eye. It will take some time to learn the trade to the point where you can actually work for the public. Like any trade, almost everyone thinks they can do it, but it doesn't take long to weed out the unskilled. Working in the public realm, today at least, can be quite taxing in any of the trades. The public can be hard to work with, payment can be difficult at times, legal litigation is always lurking and local and state regs. can drive one nuts! Then there's the long hours, no paid vacations, no paid sick time, material shortages and unexpected material price increases, not to mention the capital needed to get established; I'm not saying don't try, just saying to weigh all possibilities before you make that jump. I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, as I had my own construction business for many years and have experienced all of these issues, but am I glad I did it, yes, it was something I always had wanted to do, was it always honey and roses, no but the good outweighed the bad. If this is something you really want to do, go for it, work hard and it may pay off, but do your homework first, check out possible suppliers, check out the business needs, check out the regulations, find a good mentor if possible and know what to expect before you start! Good luck in your endeavors, no matter what they may be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 10 hours ago, Graham Man said: I am located in the upper Midwest, not many shops still open around me in upholstery of any sort. I have been looking for a shops to do my Graham for 10 years, no luck, one gentlemen I met at "Back to the 50's" used to do pre 1930's car said he would do it just because he liked the car. I think he might be a great place to start. I also have about 1600 sq/ft heated shop, so nice working area. Might be the opportunity I am looking for... City & State? Upper Midwest is a very large area, basically from Pittsburg to Minneapolis, the Canadian border to Cincinnati. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 jpage has some sage advice as do many others. All of it realistic! Patience is a huge part of any business - do you have that for possible customers who want you to do the best perfect job possible at the least amount of time and cost? Not to be negative but there are people out there who want something for nothing. Just like selling a part at a flea market- the part is 80+ years old in great shape yet you have the "do bedda" types that want it for 75% discount. You would also need someone to do the bookwork, after working all day on a project do you want to be involved with paperwork? invoices? etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a griffin Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I don't know if it has been asked or stated. Have you done any extensive upholstery work previously? As a customer, I would not feel, at all, comfortable with dropping off a car for someone to learn their skill on. When searching for an upholsterer for a prewar project I'm working on, several questions were asked primarily how many authentic prewar jobs had been completed. I was told by a production shop that they had never done one but figured it wouldn't be too difficult and they could probably learn on my project. Needless to say, they didn't make the short list. Best advice that was previously given was to find a quality shop to apprentice at and see if this is the route you really want to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Quick history. I started restoring cars in the 1960s when I was in my teens. In the 1980s I was full bore, buying and restoring, and had a local shop which did my upholstery. I took a job in, knowing the owner did great work, and he told me he'd have his helper do the job. No, I said, I want you to do it. Don't have time he said, why don't you do it yourself? He sold me a sewing machine, spent a couple hours showing me the basics, off I went. Years later, decided to take a job at White Post Restorations, apprenticed under a Master Trimmer and learned lots of tricks. Nothing magical about upholstery, but there are some basics, and some twists. Two years there, I went back into Engineering and worked in the food industry for 25 years. When I retired, I mentioned to a couple of people I'd do a couple of cars, and then was busy for 8 years. Trying to quit now. Only pre-WWII cars, interiors and tops in original fabrics, leather, and only original style materials. All horsehair and cotton, no foam, no hot rods or custom work. Now I'll ramble on. If one is good at trimming, and decides to do early cars, there is plenty of work out there. I turn down 2 or 3 jobs a month now. The only issue is getting started. Investment is low, for well under $5000 one can have a new walking foot sewing machine and all the tools you'd ever need. But, to do work for the "public", you really need to have some jobs under your belt that show that not only can you do the work, but you can do it well. An apprenticeship is a great way to go, if you can find such work. Doing a couple of your own cars first would help. I've helped numerous people here who are doing their own cars. A few have come in person to visit and I've shown them the basics, a few have been long distance with pictures and explanations. There's some nice work being done by owners, if they have the patience to listen, learn, and take their time with the work. Once you're established and a good reputation, jobs and money come easily. You need patience, you can't rush upholstery work. You need to have an eye for detail, and an eye for line, and not everyone has that. You have to be willing to acknowledge mistakes, and go back and fix them on your own time, not charging the customer. If you get into this, I recommend no estimates to start, by the hour, time and materials. As you get more experienced, you'll learn how many hours it takes to do certain jobs. Early tops, for example, I can tell you almost to the hour how long one will take. As in any restoration work, EVERYTHING takes longer than one would think, and you don't get much done in an hour. One big requirement is having customers who understand it takes time and money to do a job correctly. I've had a customer, when I took cushion cover off and saw all the mouse nests, tell me "just cover it up like that, no one will know". Well, I would know, and the customer with an attitude like that takes the car home, as he did. Do it 100% correctly and as new, no shortcuts. As mentioned, sometimes the upholstery is the last thing done, and car owner worried about money spent. Be careful with those people, as you'll be the bad guy no matter what. The other problem is, when restoring the car, few people get the trimmer involved soon enough, there are LOTS of things that should and shouldn't be done in other stages of the restoration. Want to save that old wood by putting the magic super-duper epoxy in it? Fine, until the trimmer finds out neither tack nor staple will go into the epoxy. How much fun is it to have to drill pilot holes for tacks, and how to explain to owner why it took 5 hours to do a 1 hour job? Didn't paint all the way around a door edge? No, I can't get the upholstery that far around to cover it. It's a great, clean, respected profession, and if you can become proficient, you'll always have work and good pay. Learn how to do trim work correctly, set your standards and stick to them (and no, the customer isn't always right in my book when he says to use non-original materials). Yes, it's getting harder to source correct fabric, but good leather is here to stay. Any questions let me know, glad to help. 10 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, Graham Man said: ‘Find something you love to do and you’ll never have to work a day in your life.’ And the corollary to this: Turning your hobby into a business is a great way to learn to hate your hobby. Edited February 11, 2022 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Turning your hobby into a care And the corollary to this: Turning your hobby into a business is a great way to learn to hate your hobby. A lot of truth to this, Matt, when I worked at White Post and working on old cars meant income, it wasn't nearly as much fun as working on my own cars. It was interesting to me that the owner at the time, the late Billy Thompson, was never a "car guy", but he was a great promoter and businessman. Thus, he never had to hate his hobby, as cars weren't his hobby. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Two old car hobbyists got a hold of a penny and invented copper wire. Just read this forum from 2006-2022 and get an idea of the tone of your customer base. Don't forget, any work done for one customer will be under extreme scrutiny by every old car guy who sees it into perpetuity. There will be a parade at the door saying "I'm not in a hurry. Just do it as filler work when you are not busy. Your time must be worth way less then." Finally, an old man will try to cheat you quicker than a young one. And tell you he is trying to teach you. Not a good demographic to provide services to. I am one of them. I have been disappointed by so many aspiring automotive service providers that I just try to do the work myself without looking into options. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Dave, thank you from all of us here for your comments. The "ramble on" section especially. 20 minutes ago, trimacar said: You need patience, you can't rush upholstery work. You need to have an eye for detail, and an eye for line, and not everyone has that. Of everything you wrote this to me says it all. I taught art for 35 years and those same words would be true there as well "an eye for line" especially. Restoration is an art, the one involved can see the finished product/job. Most people can not do that. I have been asked to choose colors for pre war cars by owners and restorers as they can not picture the car finished, what works , I can in my minds eye. DO not know why it is not learned there is no book or class on how to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Walt G said: can see the finished product/job. I have a good friend with a Stanley Steamer. He wanted a winter front for the car, as it has no windshield. We stood at the car, took measurements, discussed window size and fittings and such. As I was standing there looking at the car, he turned to me and said "You see it finished, don't you?". He was correct. I had visualized in my mind exactly how I wanted to shape it, do seams, the whole thing. With engineering degree and background, I can look at a blueprint and see things in all dimensions. I was always surprised that not everyone could see it that way. As they say, not bragging, just fact. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, trimacar said: With engineering degree and background, I can look at a blueprint and see things in all dimensions. I was always surprised that not everyone could see it that way. Me too on looking at blueprints. To me it is easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) I recently was forced into retirement as Covid caused our customer base to disappear. Best thing that has ever happened in my chosen career. At first I was worried about what I would do and I’ll admit I was depressed and distracted from everyday life. Thinking back on it, it may have been why I had my accident in the 38. I couldn’t find a decent repair shop that would do the work so I decided to do it my self. A great experience and the help I got from others was terrific. Dave (trimacar) has given you a wealth of knowledge if you follow it. I’m not going into the body shop business but owning my own business for 46 years I think his information applies to almost any business you go into. Good luck I hope you try it. If you need a practice car mine is available! dave s Edited February 11, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Finding the center, and making both right and left sides match as a mirror image is the key to a great upholstery job. How it gets gone is the mystery solved by great upholsters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, trimacar said: He wanted a winter front for the car, as it has no windshield 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Thanks Walt! All these years I thought these were called Cambridge Windshields, now I know why. This photo of the lady in a T Head MERCER was on the Old Motor Site. Bob Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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