Give the people what they want

[Buick35]

Why don't car manufacturers take surveys and start producing cars with what people do or don't want in vehicles other than taking it on themselves trying to decide what's in our best interests, for example,basic cars with wind up windows,basic radio,ect. All I want is a/c and f/m!

[billorn]

Im pretty sure they do ask and thats why you cant get roll up windows anymore. Nobody wants that stuff and its cheaper and easier to make all the cars the same. Why should they waste time and money to engineer a car with roll up windows if only a handful of people is going to buy them? Its like asking why doesnt anyone make a good rotary phone with a cord these days?!?!?

[joe_padavano]

12 minutes ago, Buick35 said:

Why don't car manufacturers take surveys and start producing cars with what people do or don't want in vehicles other than taking it on themselves trying to decide what's in our best interests, for example,basic cars with wind up windows,basic radio,ect. All I want is a/c and f/m!

 

Those are called "focus groups" and automakers spend millions of dollars on them, as they have been for decades.  I would venture to say that the most members of this site do not represent the tastes of the general driving public (and I include myself in that small group).

[1912Staver]

It seems many new car buyers are high enough on the income spectrum that luxury , convenience, image and the perception of safety are their primary concerns.  

 Several years ago I was in the market for a basic commuter. The manufacturers were all holding end of model year sales campaigns at the time. Large newspaper adverts showing quite enticing prices on basic versions of their entry level cars.. The only hitch... none of the dealers in my area actually had any in stock. I was time after time shown the higher level trim package versions at anything up to nearly double the "special" advertised price. The same story each time, no one buys the basic version and the dealer would be stuck with them if they ordered any.

  I eventually found one , a base model Hyundai Accent.  Manual 5 speed, nothing optional beyond floor mats and a decent AM-FM CD player. . All the while the salesman tried to upsell me into the higher trim level , only an extra $30.00 a week. And several times during the transaction put  emphasis on the "fact" that at trade in time I would do much better with the "in demand" model. 

 A couple of years later when my Wife decided she should buy a cheaper on fuel commuter we tried to replicate my purchase during that years repeat of the "end of model year" sales campaign .

  This time the dealer demanded a $500.00 non refundable deposit to even get one of the basic ones from an area dealer who showed one in stock. Needless to say we were not going to play that game. And when I did a bit of online research and tracked down who claimed to have the car in stock that dealer gave a number of excuses about why we could not come over and give it a test drive. No doubt it was a car that did not exist.  It probably did not help that my wife was going to pay cash and therefore would have cost the dealer his cut of the financing.

 Shortly after an opening came up at the hospital less than 10 minutes away from our home and my wife transferred her Nursing job to that location. She is still happily driving her Ranger and enjoying much reduced fuel bills.

 

Major advertising campaign all to support the classic "bait and switch" . And across all the entry level makers.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited September 3, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[DonMicheletti]

Supposedly Henry Ford, when asked about what people want back at the beginning, said: "if you asked people what they wanted, they would say - a faster horse".

[John_S_in_Penna]

"Give the people what they want."  An excellent idea,

and we should put you in charge of one of the car companies!

 

How about a car that seats 6 people comfortably?

And it need not be a 4-door sedan, because 2-door 

hardtops, 2-door sedans, and convertibles used to fill

that requirement nicely, while looking stylish at the same time.

 

Has anyone checked the middle rear seat position lately?

It's very uncomfortable, even hump-like.  Even on the

big Lexus LS460 sedan!  That means that a supposed

5-passenger car has become a 4-passenger car.

 

In some respects, the automotive industry has not been advancing.

[46 woodie]

How about a USA made station wagon, not mini van. If you want a wagon today, you have to get a German or other Euro car. I know I'm not in any "focus group" because I have so much computerized stuff, in my car that I don't know how to use, don't know what it's for and afraid to touch. I couldn't figure why my RPMs were so high and found out that my car was in "sport mode". Re-set it to "normal driving" and cut the RPMs in half. Also, I can't do my own oil changes anymore. The oil drain plug is now a one time use part, when you remove it it need to be replaced with a new plug AND it requires a special tool to remove it. I need a '57 Chevy!

[capngrog]

35 minutes ago, 46 woodie said:

 Also, I can't do my own oil changes anymore. The oil drain plug is now a one time use part, when you remove it it need to be replaced with a new plug AND it requires a special tool to remove it. I need a '57 Chevy!

 

Wow, what make of car is that with the one-time use oil plug?  I can foresee the day when individuals will no longer be allowed to change their own oil, due to environmental concerns.  It sounds like the manufacturer of your car is "clued in" as to what's coming ... legislation-wise.

 

Maybe I'm just overly paranoid about our "benevolent" big brother ... maybe not.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[1937hd45]

When I can afford a new car I'll let you know, right now I'll like a used low miles crew cab pickup. By the way this is the ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE CLUB OF AMERICA, who in their right mind gives a ratsbutt about current vehicles? Bob 

Edited September 3, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Pomeroy41144]

Even in the 1990s, Pontiac would not let me order a car the way I wanted.  Certain things came with certain packages.  And certain numbers of cars were manufactured with certain packages.  It was really  frustrating. I am old enough to remember the good old days: My grandfather or my father could go into a Pontiac dealer or Buick dealer, respectively, and fill out an order sheet and get the Catalina or Electra 225 that they wanted with the equipment and features that they wanted.  Even Hyundai would not let my wife get the super - duper stereo system in her SUV unless she purchased the third row seating.  We did not want the third row, so we could not get the stereo upgrade.  Really dumb.  

[39BuickEight]

Manufacturers don’t care what enthusiasts want.  We make up a very small part of the market.  They answer to the government, regulations, lawyers, and banks.   I figure any product that’s not what I want is because I’m not the target market.  

[Frank DuVal]

44 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

, who in their right mind gives a ratsbutt about current vehicles? 

 

We do, as these are the future AACA vehicles you will be seeing on the field. If the car is never made or sold, then they can’t be collected. 

 

I’m sure the same comments were made in the 50s. .......

 

Who cares what Detroit is making today in 1955, no one will ever collect these cars. Model As are the new AACA vehicles we want. 

 

[ejboyd5]

I'm reminded of, "Give the people what they think they want."  George Ade. Fables in Slang

[Guest]

I was working the front counter in a GM dealership when the Chevy II was announced.  The newspaper quoted a price for 4 cyl, 2 dr with BW tires and hubcaps.  No radio.  There were none of these in Manitoba at the time.  Our base model in the showroom had a 6cyl and WW tires.  If I remember correctly all the Chev II's we sold had WW tires, wheel discs and a radio.

I watched and listened twice while one of our salesmen accessorized the Chev II until a regular Chev was cheaper.  He then accessorized the Chev until a basic Olds was cheaper.  In both cases the purchaser came in looking for basic transportation and drove out with a well equipped Olds 88.

Aficonados aside I don't believe 90% of car buyers know what they want when they go shopping for new wheels.  

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

 If you want a wagon today, you have to get a German or other Euro car. 

 

Believe it or not, Buick now makes a mid-sized 

station wagon.

 

https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-buick-regal-tourx-wagon-will-start-under-30-0-1796467060

 

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

12 minutes ago, Tinindian said:

I was working the front counter in a GM dealership when the Chevy II was announced.  The newspaper quoted a price for 4 cyl, 2 dr with BW tires and hubcaps.  No radio.  There were none of these in Manitoba at the time.  Our base model in the showroom had a 6cyl and WW tires.  If I remember correctly all the Chev II's we sold had WW tires, wheel discs and a radio.

I watched and listened twice while one of our salesmen accessorized the Chev II until a regular Chev was cheaper.  He then accessorized the Chev until a basic Olds was cheaper.  In both cases the purchaser came in looking for basic transportation and drove out with a well equipped Olds 88.

Aficonados aside I don't believe 90% of car buyers know what they want when they go shopping for new wheels.  

 

I think many buyers want their ego's stroked.  You work hard and deserve better, and it is ONLY $30.00-$50.00-$80.00 a week more. 

 Many of the cost sensitive potential buyers in my area are already on public transportation.  Western Canada has sky high gas prices, staggering cost of living for middle class and lower earners . High insurance . Dreadful traffic congestion at rush hour. Very high parking rates downtown. Transit use increases every year and would increase even more if there was the capacity to serve more riders on popular routes at peak hours.

 

Greg in Canada

[John348]

1 hour ago, Tinindian said:

 

Aficonados aside I don't believe 90% of car buyers know what they want when they go shopping for new wheels.  

 

Very true but one thing do want and most likely need is a new car and the sales people know that, otherwise you would not have walked in the door. I had just bought a new GMC Diesel Sierra and my friend and fellow a AACA Member is the manager of the dealership for a long time. He told me that in the Metro New York Area that 85% of the car are leases, and he knows that he will see that customer every 2 to 3 years. It has become a painless transaction and is done in a 2 hours. "You were paying $XXX a month I can put you in the for $50 more, sign the papers and out the door" I myself never leased but many people it is the way to go.

So technically they do give the majority of people what they want and that is a new car every 3 years

[Guest]

I keep a vintage rotary phone behind the bar. It's durable, you can hear it ring when the place is busy, you can clearly hear on the ear piece, and it makes a hell of a weapon if you need it. ?

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Believe it or not, Buick now makes a mid-sized 

station wagon.

 

https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-buick-regal-tourx-wagon-will-start-under-30-0-1796467060

 

 

That isn't a minivan / crossover ? An awfully tall "car". Why is it all the Soccer Mom's I see want channel their inner Bus Driver.  Perhaps they watched too much Partridge Family when they were young. 

 

If I was in the market for a Station Wagon it would be more like this.

 

 

 

Or even this.

Edited September 3, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

6 hours ago, Buick35 said:

Why don't car manufacturers take surveys and start producing cars with what people do or don't want in vehicles other than taking it on themselves trying to decide what's in our best interests, for example,basic cars with wind up windows,basic radio,ect. All I want is a/c and f/m!

I can not wait for the new Hudson's

[Bush Mechanic]

1 hour ago, GregLaR said:

I keep a vintage rotary phone behind the bar. It's durable, you can hear it ring when the place is busy, you can clearly hear on the ear piece, and it makes a hell of a weapon if you need it. ?

Greg, they are indispensable where I live, as they still work to call the power company when a tree takes the lines down. And that happens often. Haven't had to clout anyone with it to date, though.

Apologies for wandering off topic.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Bush Mechanic (see edit history)

[capngrog]

 

I think that our British Cousins would refer to that style Jag as a "shooting brake", not a station wagon.   Although it looks like a Jaguar (1966 Jaguar S-Type Saloon?) rear-ended by a Morris Minor "woody", I like it.  Actually, I like it a lot.  If "They" produced it, I'd probably want one ... but I doubt I could afford one.

 

 

Cheers,

Grog

[TerryB]

In the motorcycle world the same sentiments were put forth by the people and the manufacturers listened, they built new versions of the 1960s, 70s and 80s motorcycles as requested.  When the public saw them and rode them they found out they really didn’t like going back to that era after all so the dealers were stuck with unsold units.  We say we want this or that until it happens and then the majority of requesters fail to show up to actually buy.

 

I would like to see exterior and interior colors expanded and less of the 1001 buttons on the steering wheel as a future trend.  Then again I am unable to drive anymore so it’s kind of moot that I offer any input!

[1937hd45]

5 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

We do, as these are the future AACA vehicles you will be seeing on the field. If the car is never made or sold, then they can’t be collected. 

 

I’m sure the same comments were made in the 50s. .......

 

Who cares what Detroit is making today in 1955, no one will ever collect these cars. Model As are the new AACA vehicles we want. 

 

Unless they drop the 25 year old requirement to join AACA (a isn't antique any more IMO) I'll be 93 years old and able to walk past the line up with less interest in them than I have now. Bob 

[1912Staver]

57 minutes ago, capngrog said:

 

I think that our British Cousins would refer to that style Jag as a "shooting brake", not a station wagon.   Although it looks like a Jaguar (1966 Jaguar S-Type Saloon?) rear-ended by a Morris Minor "woody", I like it.  Actually, I like it a lot.  If "They" produced it, I'd probably want one ... but I doubt I could afford one.

 

 

Cheers,

Grog

Pretty sure it is based on a XK 150. And yes , no doubt quite pricy.  But probably no more than a current upper range SUV.  And you would not find yourself at the grocery store surrounded by dozens of cookie cutter look alike's

.Shooting Brake would be of course be correct. However it looks a lot more like a station wagon than most of the x over monstrosity's of the last 10 years . 

 

Greg

[zipdang]

I WANT A SMALL PICKUP WITH A STANDARD CAB AND LONG BED! My '97 Ranger (at close to 300,000 miles) is getting a bit tired and there is nothing to replace it out there!

[Frank DuVal]

I have two rotary Western Electric 500 phones on my desk at work. One black, one red. I can hear them ring and hear people talking in a noisy environment. 

 

I do have a cordless for adding touchtones when I need them....?

 

And the Westen Electric 500 touch tone phone at home dials the hone company to report the power outages...........

 

Try to find a pick up with a manual transmission in the last few years?

 

Staver, that Buick is a low roof station wagon.  Probably lower than the Volvo. Of course the Madison Avenue ad agency calls it a crossover so people will actually buy it.? After all , Volvo does not have any wagons anymore, all crossovers.

[1912Staver]

According to a quick Google search the Buick is indeed pretty low, only 1 1/2 inches higher than a Volvo 240 wagon. They none the less manage to make it look pretty chunky. That seems to be a modern styling trend, whatever happened to long and low? I grew up in the 60's when cars were ground huggers. The only people who drove trucks were Tradesmen and Farmers. Now  all the cars look like Potatoes to me.

 

Greg in Canada

[joe_padavano]

8 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

That seems to be a modern styling trend, whatever happened to long and low?

 

Simple. Obese Americans (who must make up about 70% of the population) can't get in or out of "long and low" vehicles, thus the popularity of tall SUV-ish vehicles.  Even sedans are as tall as SUVs today.  Not too long ago I parked my 1984 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon next to a then-new final generation Ford Taurus.  I was amazed to notice that while sitting in my car, the door handles on the new Ford were about at my eye level! FYI, I'm 6-2, so not exactly short.

[padgett]

Used to be a sedan had to be tall enough for a hat. Of course that was pre-Kennedy. I have always liked wagons, the Volvo P1800ES in particular. Closest thing to anything modern I like was the Dodge Magnum Wagon - always looked like a chop top to me - but will never have another car with a timing belt.

 

Have to remember I came here from the Reatta forum where reprogramming is a common topic. The coupe I bought in ought-one is thirty years old now. I tend to buy cars I like and just keep them.

 

Guess do not fit any demographic since I buy cars more for the drivetrain (usually have a service manual before the car) than the styling, Jeep had steep rebates when I bought it because few wanted an SUV but is the best two seat tow and trip car I've had. Is the only one I have to make sure it turns off though, others if the key is in my pocket it is off.

 

Next car will probably be another retractable, I just like them.

[Frank DuVal]

Long and Low went out with two wheel drive! That's why cars are taller now, since there has to be a four wheel drive version  of any car to sell well to us 'Mericans.  Remember the Eagle? It was tall also. Two wheel drive variant was low.

 

The very first four wheel drive vehicle I bought was earlier this year because I lost the argument with the wife and helped my daughter buy  an Encore with  all-wheel drive so she can "safely" navigate her 50 mile commute in DC traffic in the snow. Like the front wheel drive version would not do the job.....?

 

The other issue is side crash ratings. This has driven the belt line higher than in the past. Tall door sheetmetal, short glass look.

[Frantz]

They certainly do make those simple cars! And no one buys the stuff. I worked at a Ford dealer for years and do you know how many manual transmission crank window Fiesta's we sold? One. Do you know how many people asked for that? One. It was me. Can't find one? Well you could order one from several auto makers. These cheap basic cars are the dreams of used car buyers, but no manufacturer cares, or should care, about what used car buyers want. Now what happens is because so few get requested, it ends up being cheaper just to make them with more standard features. My 2015 Fiesta has crank windows, MT, and bluetooth is standard. It was cheaper for Ford to not make an AM/FM radio. The windows and transmissions get costly too when no one buys them, so eventually the cheap options get bumped out to get upgrades as standard. After all, your basic request are significantly more than what Henry Ford offered on the T and he felt wanting more than that was glutenous. The US dollar is your survey and unless you're buying a new car fairly often, you get voted down pretty quick by the people who DO buy new cars fairly often.

[charlier]

On 9/3/2018 at 12:08 PM, Buick35 said:

Why don't car manufacturers take surveys and start producing cars with what people do or don't want in vehicles other than taking it on themselves trying to decide what's in our best interests, for example,basic cars with wind up windows,basic radio,ect. All I want is a/c and f/m!

 

Actually they do. Several years ago I was approached by a survey company to participate in a survey as were several 100 other people. We were not told which auto manufacturer had commissioned the survey. Everything was very guarded and at the time we were not permitted to discuss the matter with anyone (ie NDA had to be signed).  The survey used touch pad computers that asked 100s of detailed questions (many of which have been mentioned by others in this thread) which took 3-4 hours and involved a dozen or so vehicles. Some vehicles had all their badges and markings and a couple others had no markings and were obviously prototypes.

 

I often wonder how many 10s of 1000s of people they had to ask before they got a few 100 people to agree to participate. Would I do this again, sure, I am a car guy. Would other people that did this survey before do it again, I doubt it. BTW, about a year or so after I took this survey I realized what manufacturer and model the unmarked prototype vehicle belong to when the manufacturer started selling the vehicle. It also became clear why I was asked to do the survey. I owned a vehicle at the time that would compete with this new vehicle.

 

Charlie

 

[60FlatTop]

About two years ago I started looking for a premium car. Buick or Cadillac would have been my choice. No more Fleetwoods or Roadmasters, though. Top of the line Caddy was a rebadged Chevy Impala. I am not a fan of front wheel drive and I like a longitudinally mounted engine, preferably with at least 8 cylinders. The Lucerne looked good to me but it was already off the shelf, didn't matter, all wrong under the skin. So I am out looking at full dress crew cab Chevy trucks.

 

One day it all came together, just what I wanted, a big Buick with all the right stuff under the skin.

 

I took the top one, had to settle for 12 cylinders instead of 6, but I'm learning to deal with it. They say it has a 6 speed transmission but it sure feels like a Dynaflow to me.

Closer to what I wanted than a Chevy truck!

Bernie

[John348]

On 9/3/2018 at 12:08 PM, Buick35 said:

Why don't car manufacturers take surveys and start producing cars with what people do or don't want in vehicles other than taking it on themselves trying to decide what's in our best interests, for example,basic cars with wind up windows,basic radio,ect. All I want is a/c and f/m!

 

Apparently the manufacturer's must. Auto sales are brisk, and that is the indicator to them, that they are supplying what the buyers want

[mcdarrunt]

I absolutely refuse to buy a car that does not have a shift on the column, a bench seat, cloth interior, and a flat floor. I can afford pretty much what is offered but till I can BUY WHAT I WANT it's a no sale. Bought my wife a new Infinity and after a 3000 mile trip of sitting down in a well where I couldn't stretch a leg over onto the passenger side, having the console rub the side of my leg raw, and leather keeping my shirt wet I sold it for 10k less as soon as I got home. Did a search and the last American car offered with what I want was an Impala but we like a Buick better so 2005 is the limit. I bought her three of them several years ago with 70-90k miles on them and put two in storage. We are in our 80's and the way that 3.8 engine is still purring along with 170k miles I figure the stored ones will get auctioned off after we die. My 98 Ranger has 374k miles on it but until I can get a single cab long bed TRUCK instead of a 4dr sedan with a tiny box in back it's another no sale.

 

[ScarredKnightfan]

On September 3, 2018 at 11:52 AM, 1912Staver said:

Major advertising campaign all to support the classic "bait and switch" . And across all the entry level makers.

 

Funny how we're told "bait & switch" is ILLEGAL, yet ... examples of it keep coming up, apparently LEGAL.

 

Know how employers aren't supposed to ask about health issues?  They found a way around that, too ... ask about or establish "must lift at least this many pounds".  UGH.

 

 

Cort, pig&cowValves+PM, www.oldcarsstronghearts.com
2003 MGM LS + 1981 cmc SC; need 1975 Chrysler Cordoba

"Just another regret" | All-American Rejects | 'Dirty Little Secret'