trimacar Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) And yes, I used lower case for a reason. Obviously, the museum has the AACA mailing list information. In fact, from the museum website: Can I renew my AACA Club Membership here? For the security of our guest, all AACA Club renewals should be directed to the club. If I’m an AACA Club Member do I need my card? To expedite your entry, it would be helpful to have your card ready at the time of arrival. The museum can look you up, but there may be a delay depending on the number of patrons at the counter. So, they can "look you up". That's really nice, except that I don't want to be "looked up", nor contacted by, the museum. The letter received is, to me, an abuse of private information. The advantage of having free entry into the museum is far overshadowed by this invasion of privacy. Very nasty letter, basically saying how dare the AACA want them to, as a now separate entity, give up the AACA name. This, in spite of the fact that they are NOT NOW a part of the AACA. The AACA is the reason that the museum is in existence at all, and the fact remains that the assets of the museum came mainly from AACA members who thought they were forwarding the goals of the Club, not the separate goals of the museum as now defined by a museum board that is, obviously, not in sync with the AACA. I specifically don't appreciate the direct personal attack on Steve Moskowitz in the letter, as I truly believe he has the best interests of the CLUB at heart. Then, there's the sentence that states "..however wrongheaded and misguided the Club may be in their direction, we must defend ourselves [museum], and prevail". They then entreat the "membership" [of the Club]" to embrace their efforts to reach an accord. I personally don't like the fact that a lot of money will be spent with lawyers to fight this issue, but I do support it, as the museum has, to me, slapped every member of the Club in the face, challenging a duel..... Edited March 23, 2018 by trimacar (see edit history) 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I also received that letter today. I concur with your assessment of the letter. It also concerns me that I am still receiving mail from them after having given the museum written notice to remove me from their mailing list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41 Su8 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I got my letter yesterday. I totally agree with the above posts. I think it is time for all members to boycott the museum. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 At least they are consistent, it was a mistake from the very beginning IMO, and it will be a mistake up to the day it is closed and the cars set free to members of the hobby. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I concur with all of the above. I will also be requesting to be removed from their mailing list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalef62 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I would like to know what the framework is that the aaca Museum speaks of? It was OUR Museum, bought and paid for with AACA CLUB members money, they stole it from us! Don't use OUR name if it is not ours anymore! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJFord54 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) They stole the museum from us - pure and simple. I will write them and say just that. If they (and I'm sure they are) reading this - @#$% #%$ ! And, while I know that "our" AACA had indicated that they'd like us to just let it go, I would encourage the BOD and Steve to write a letter to all members of the AACA and further explain the situation. We need the general membership to know the truth. Edited March 24, 2018 by AJFord54 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I have not received a letter yet but I am wondering if they are using a list from their attendees or the AACA membership. If theirs the only recourse you have is to send them a request to take your name off the list. By law they have to honor that request and not solicit from you anymore. If it is from the membership how did they get use of the list? The AACA would have had to authorize the use or sold the use in a one time or possibly a one year unlimited use agreement. If they did not authorize it then the museum can be held liable for possible theft of an asset. I suggest you write the AACA and inquire how this happened. Just a thought. Not trying to cause a problem. Dave S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I haven't yet received my letter from the museum. Would any recipient care to post it here, or is it too lengthy? Cheers, Grog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Here you go, enjoy reading about how "wrongheaded and misguided" we, the Club, are....I don't know if just the writer, or the whole board, is that pompous..... museum page 1.pdf Museum page two.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 7 hours ago, SC38DLS said: I have not received a letter yet but I am wondering if they are using a list from their attendees or the AACA membership. If theirs the only recourse you have is to send them a request to take your name off the list. By law they have to honor that request and not solicit from you anymore. If it is from the membership how did they get use of the list? The AACA would have had to authorize the use or sold the use in a one time or possibly a one year unlimited use agreement. If they did not authorize it then the museum can be held liable for possible theft of an asset. I suggest you write the AACA and inquire how this happened. Just a thought. Not trying to cause a problem. Dave S As I understand it, when they were informally considered "part of the club" they were given permission to use the mailing list for specific purposes. They have been notified to stop using the list, but they are obviously still using it. I have previously written and demanded that they remove my name from their mailing list and they are still sending me letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Tempted to put the letter back in an envelope, and send it back to them....if a couple thousand people did that at least it would mess up their mail for a couple of days, particularly if "donation inside" written on envelopes....oh, my, am I getting mean in my old age? Using the Club's mailing list to send letters insulting the Club, somehow ironic.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJFord54 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, trimacar said: Here you go, enjoy reading about how "wrongheaded and misguided" we, the Club, are....I don't know if just the writer, or the whole board, is that pompous..... museum page 1.pdf Museum page two.pdf It was signed by their entire Board of Directors - appears they are all pompous. It's like stealing someone's wife, but then demanding his Social Security check to provide her upkeep. Sadly, much of our membership has no understanding of the situation. Hopefully our leadership, once cleared by the legal team will respond to this obnoxious garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, trimacar said: Very nasty letter.. David, I didn't see the tone of the letter as nasty at all. I saw it as simply giving their position. Whether they stated it correctly remains to be seen. I agree with you that almost all of the cars, ethically speaking, are from the AACA. Now we need an explanation or up-date from our elected AACA office-holders. Edited March 24, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said: David, I didn't see the tone of the letter as nasty at all. I saw it as simply giving their position. Now we need an explanation or up-date from our elected AACA office-holders. * * * "...how wrongheaded and misguided the Club is...." John, I would call that NASTY! I am personally offended by the tone of their self serving letter. They had every opportunity to work with us, but their "Dictatorship Leader" mentality has taken over their group. I am not on the Board anymore, but I was there when we went through all of this. I am just so proud that they will have to look at our new Headquarters/Library Center in a few years as they go to their offices every day. An explanation from the Board may take a few days as they are enjoying the sun in Alabama this weekend. Wayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 They have in access of $18,000,000.00 with an annual income of $1,500,00.00 and so they have a lot to protect. It came from the club members who make up the club so who are they protecting from? Several years ago the Canadian Automobile Museum located in Oshawa comprising of mainly cars built in Canada went to court. They elected a new president who intern brought in a some new directors. They then proceeded to take over the museum and move it to a new location. Do not remember what happened to the new executives but they lost and the museum is still it the same location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlier Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I too received the letter from the Museum this past Thursday. The tone and content of the letter are exhibit #1 as to why the Museum should no longer be permitted to use the Club's name as their actions do not reflect well on the Club. Since the museum also appears to be using the Club's mailing list information to send out these letters, one has to wonder if that use is also a part of the legal proceedings. If it is not part of the legal proceedings, it should be. Regardless of what some people might think, the general public has NO CLUE WHAT-SO-EVER that the Club and the Museum were/are SEPARATE entities NOT RELATED to one another. The actions of the Museum , in the eyes of the public, will ALWAYS reflect on the Club as long as the Museum continues to use the Club's name. The Club's good name is an asset that the Museum should not be permitted to continue to capitalize on. I fully support the Club's Board and Executives in legal proceedings that will remedy this situation even though the legal bills may end up being significant. Charlie 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, charlier said: I fully support the Club's Board and Executives in legal proceedings that will remedy this situation even though the legal bills may end up being significant. Charlie As Charlie said, I, too, would fully support the Club in its efforts to protect its (AACA) name. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said: They have in access of $18,000,000.00 with an annual income of $1,500,00.00 and so they have a lot to protect. It came from the club members who make up the club so who are they protecting from? This right here. Did they not stop to think about where those $18 million in assets came from before sending this wrong-headed letter to the club membership? Club members GAVE IT TO YOU. I'm still trying to work out how this situation can make museum management rich(er). There's graft afoot else they wouldn't be fighting so hard to save themselves. Are there insanely bloated paychecks for museum board members as with most non-profits? Surely someone is expecting a payday of some kind by being associated with the museum and they don't much like the idea that it might be taken away from them. I just can't quite find the right thread to pull to unravel it. It happened right before everyone's eyes at the Crawford here in Cleveland, and when it was done and millions of dollars had just vanished, everybody shrugged and pretended everything was fine. Everyone knows what happened and who did it, but nothing ever came of it. If the museum really expects club members to take their side in this matter, they've been drinking too much of their own Kool-Aid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, charlier said: general public has NO CLUE WHAT-SO-EVER that the Club and the Museum were/are SEPARATE entities NOT RELATED to one another. Yes, this is very true, and although it was and is "public" knowledge, there were even some AACA Club members who were taken aback when this was explained. The museum would not even exist were it not for the AACA Club, a fact the museum board seems to easily ignore. While separate entities, the intent of starting the museum was so that the museum and Club could work together to forward the preservation of antique automobiles. This goal has now been tossed by the museum board of directors, a board that now has non-hobbyists on it who, apparently, could care less about the preservation of the automobile yet care a lot about "assets". I fully support the Club trying to regain title to the use of the name AACA. I also would think that the Club would go into this battle with some assurance that they have a winning case, and hopefully the Club gets good advice from lawyers involved, as there will be cost as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: This right here. Matt, I agree, I was typing as you posted. Follow the money, they mention NOTHING in their letter about the fine cars they've been gifted with, and only brag about the "assets".... They mention NOTHING about the preservation of history and cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 It's essential that the Club's Board promulgate a response QUICKLY to the membership to get us up to speed on what negotiations broke down and what the Museum asked for that was unacceptable. Once again, their communications are out front ahead of the Club's, but perhaps the Museum Board deliberately timed their release while our Board was out of pocket at a major meet. I'm a 55-year member of the CLUB and thoroughly resent the Museum's use of "AACA" in their name after, apparently, there is no hope for reunification. "The Automobile Museum at Hershey" or similar would be an acceptable alternative to me. The continued use of "AACA" in their name may result in vehicles, automobilia, and literature being given them under older wills that are not intended now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Everyone might remember this situation with the museum a few years ago: They sent out a letter saying that they needed a new sign along the road, and were trying to raise $100,000 for it. The old sign had a letter-board where letters had to be changed manually; they wanted an electronic message board. And they said that no one knew what "AACA Museum" meant on the sign, because the "AACA" acronym was unfamiliar to the public. So they were going to change the title on the sign. Remember, their sign wasn't all that old--and they needed to spend $100,000 for a new one already? I don't know the process, but they did get a new sign. It was smaller than the old one. It had the electronic message board they wanted, but the title "AACA Museum" was still there. So half the pretext of their fund-raiser was never even put in place. And do they really need the name "AACA Museum" now when a different name on their sign was what they were seeking? Since they spent $100,000 so freely, it was then I decided I would not be leaving money to the museum. Nice people, but at least at that time, not good stewards with money, in my opinion. Edited March 24, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vila Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I agree with trimacar and just about everything else said above. When I got the letter I went on the museum website to get their email address and set the following: "As a long time AACA member, I do not agree with your misguided rift with the CLUB. I support the CLUB and would like my name permanently removed from the museums email and mailing lists." I then listed my name and AACA membership number and ask them not to contact me again. If anyone would like to send a similar message, their email address is: info@aacamuseum.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) If the museum and the club are & were legally separate organizations and the culb has officially and legally notified the museum to cease using the clubs subscription list then the museum should be held responsible for illegal use of the list. We subscribed to the club not the museum. The club should be able to collect fees and damages for this use. We as members need to tell the club this use of our names is wrong and we are upset. The club should make this right by getting payment for these damages. Personally I feel if this is at least $5-10 worth of discomfort to me and if the club collects that for every member hurt by this letter the museums 18 million will be a lot smaller. I also wonder if the use is illegal is that considered mail fraud? I believe that is a $10,000 fine and a jail term for each instance. That’s a lot of fine $. If the museum is only concerned about $ hit them where it hurts. Dave S Edited March 24, 2018 by SC38DLS (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) It is a Museum of Personal Ego, your name on a brick for a few bucks or over a doorway for a quarter million, NOTHING has changed since the project started, the mystery to me is why it takes so long for others to figure this out. Bob Edited March 25, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I received the letter this past Thursday. To be totally honest, I'm not up to date on what is happening here - my own fault. Maybe if the Club , if it's legally possible, give the Club Membership an update. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Well,i am ticked to,not only the letter,but bringing Steve in to this.He is the hardest working man out there for our club.He will keep us posted.Everyone send a letter to the museum,cancel your name,be the end of it .Bad situation,only to get worse 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I had every intention of spending my golden years volunteering at the museum but I have reconsidered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Got your point,well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJFord54 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: It is a Museum of Personal Ego, your name on a brick for a few bucks or over a doorway for a quarter million, NOTHING has changed sine the project started, the mystery to me is why it takes so long for others to figure this out. Bob Not sure I understand your post Bob. The museum was started by our board to created a wonderful place to combine Hershey Fall with a great history of motoring. Yes, some bought bricks, some paid for a doorway, others donated automobiles, buses, trucks, motorcycles, badges, etc. Yes, names were added in thanks. I see nothing wrong with that. We all like our names on things - hell, we even sign our names to our posts and place them on our graves as well. What changed is the grand theft by a group of directors who think they are entitled to steal the museum out from under us, and then have the "ciaunes" to challenge us over the name of the museum. Maybe they should change the name to something more appropriate: "Grand Theft Automobile Museum of Hershey" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejboyd5 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 For the uninitiated, could someone provide an explanation as to how the AACA and the Museum came to be separate entities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enos Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I'm with AJFord54 Enos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 The socalled AACA Museum needs to GO BROKE! They exist under false pretenses. I have more than one brick there, but it was for AACA (the club) and in personal memory of all the work I did over my 15 years on the AACA Board. That was one of the proudest acomplisments of my entire life. A bunch of rich people stole the Museum for the club, and for that I hope they go absolutely BROKE! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Frazee Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Tempest in a teacup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Roger Frazee said: Tempest in a teacup. Obviously you don't know the full story. Do you realize how much AACA member donated money those people know how to get....lawyers, politicians, and bankers? I helped raise a lot of that money in the 1980s and especially in the 1990s. Unless you are one of them, and are instead a regular AACA member, you need to know of what you speak and learn more. Hundreds pf AACA members in good faith donated their money, their cars, their time to the creation of that Museum. It was set up the way it was because at the time the National Club was not a full C3 organization. The Library had been set up the same way for the same reason, but the Board members of Library acted in good faith after the Club became a C3 recognized organization because they were all old car lovers and AACA members. Figure the rest out for yourself. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJFord54 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 53 minutes ago, ejboyd5 said: For the uninitiated, could someone provide an explanation as to how the AACA and the Museum came to be separate entities. It would be easiest to do a search on the old post of a year or two ago about the separation. I don't want to go into details as I would probably be incorrect. Steve and others posted the entire history and it had pretty much ended - they go their way and we go ours. It's back in the headlines - unnecessarily - all the museum has to do is a simple thing - change their damn name and I suspect this would all go away. How in the world would they think or even want to use the initials AACA, knowing they have no attachment to the true AACA. Talk about wanting their cake and eat it too....... One thing I have found in life - good guys eventually win and the bad guys get karma up the backside. Just watch and wait. It may take a few years, but as they say: "Zebra's don't change their stripes". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I would prefer that we not add anything to the old discussion to bring it back up and make it confusing with two different related discussions ongoing at the same time so I will lock that one for replies, but if you want to see the entire 24 pages of the original discussion on the Museum/Club issue check out this link: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 There was a museum up here that closed years ago and will not name. When it did close a very few were able to buy cars at a very reasonable price. I seen some of them being resold at Hershey the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 6:26 PM, AJFord54 said: They stole the museum from us - pure and simple. I will write them and say just that. If they (and I'm sure they are) reading this - @#$% #%$ ! And, while I know that "our" AACA had indicated that they'd like us to just let it go, I would encourage the BOD and Steve to write a letter to all members of the AACA and further explain the situation. We need the general membership to know the truth. What is the truth? I joined when the separation was going on and do not know what this is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now