PWN Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Would I need my own personal Citroen mechanic on retainer? Destroy my retirement savings? Possibly be committed into an institution? Live in joy, peace and collector car rapture? Die with no "lost car" regrets? Go on as normal with a really cool car? To be honest, I think I know the answers. Have any of you pursued a dream and had it turn out good? Bad? All that aside, what do you think of the auto? So if I did "go for it" would I settle for a cheaper car that is working and acceptable in appearance or go for a restoration that would presumably be relatively free of issues? By the way, Jay Leno loves his and thinks it is a superior auto. https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/citroen/sm https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/citroen/sm/driving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Always remember the opening sequence in “the longest Yard“ when Burt Reynolds wrecks his wife’s SM. I would buy the one that the guy spent 500,000 sorting. Otherwise you will end up being the guy spending 500,000 and sorting. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I believe this is a Unique Classic viewed by two unique gropes of hobbyists, the Drivers claim they drive great. The people that just enjoy looking at Great Looking cars, are crowed around any other car on the field. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I love those cars but would never own one out of fear of the unknown. My brother had a Pallas when he lived in Belgium and loved it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 As an old friend told me many years ago "if you have an itch you have to scratch it." Now admittedly I don't know how strong your urge to scratch it is. That's something only you can answer. It's an adage that I have always tried to honor. But it's only a part of the equation. If you can't afford to take the risk financially or emotionally don't do it. If things don't seem right walk away. There will be another car and another time. I think that they are great cars. I would love to have one in my stable. Try to buy the best car that you can afford. Good luck! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Brings back memories. Only one I've ever ridden in made me physically sick. The ultra spongy air bag suspension gave such a strange feel as it seemed to rock and roll in a wave-like motion. Not sure I barfed from that or just from looking at it. No offense intended here but IMHO the only uglier car is the Pontiac Aztec. Terry 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 It is the only Citroen I would allow in my driveway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWN Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, alsancle said: Awwww....my wife and I just watched it.....shame shame.....but probably the only one I could afford at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWN Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 49 minutes ago, Terry Bond said: Brings back memories. Only one I've ever ridden in made me physically sick. The ultra spongy air bag suspension gave such a strange feel as it seemed to rock and roll in a wave-like motion. Not sure I barfed from that or just from looking at it. No offense intended here but IMHO the only uglier car is the Pontiac Aztec. Terry I would say the reaction is you either hate it or love it. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 They were somewhat difficuly / expensive to keep on the road when they were nearly new. These days " money pit " is probably close to the mark on any but the very best examples. "It's not wrong, it's just French ". Interesting cars, I liked them a lot when they were new. But I would prefer a Jensen Interceptor , or even a BMW M6 { the original 83 - 89 version }. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, PWN said: I would say the reaction is you either hate it or love it. LOL An SM is one of the best-riding cars I've ever been in. Craig 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Had a chance to buy one out of the junk yard after an engine fire in 1981 for $1500. Last year, I just randomly happened to think about SM’s, and the next moment I glanced towards NY Route 38 and one went by !!! Pure ESP Nirvana….. Or maybe it was an Alfa Montreal…. It went by fast….. Both favorites of mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Well, it would be cheaper than a Mercedes 600. Both require degrees in hydraulic theory but one also has an added need for psychiatric assistance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarNucopia Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 If you are comfortable with the knowledge the car will spend your money, go for it. There has never been a better time to own oddball, weird cars because the internet (and Facebook specifically) is a wealth of knowledge on nearly every aspect of ownership. I've bought a few cars that were itches that needed scratching, but rare enough I had your concern. The end result was buying them led to me getting involved and having fun with like minded nutters like me. If you're really concerned it will spend you poor, find a SM Facebook group and ask the question there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 I have always loved those cars. We had a neighbor when I was a teenager that had a brown one. I said then I was always going to get one but never did, not yet anyway. There is an episode of Colombo where the criminal drives one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 10 hours ago, vintage1 said: I have always loved those cars. We had a neighbor when I was a teenager that had a brown one. I said then I was always going to get one but never did, not yet anyway. There is an episode of Colombo where the criminal drives one. Mr. Steinmetz! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Where would you even find a mechanic who knows anything about them? Better plan on being your own mechanic. You could look at a Youtube channel called Cold War Motors. It is by a fan of French cars in western Canada who owns one. He has more nerve than Dick Tracy, and without the gun. Just watching the videos and knowing what I know about those cars gives me the shudders. They were made for a French or Italian millionaire playboy to buy and drive for 2 years then send to the scrap yard. If you want a hobby and have more time and money than you know what to do with this is the car for you. My favorite feature. They used a Maserati V6 with 4 overhead cams. The lowest camshaft cover on both sides, had a gasket permanently immersed in oil that would leak onto the exhaust manifold. Rather than fix it properly they put a couple of eaves troughs on the engine to drain off the oil. The whole car is like that. The way they drive the accessories off the engine is a riot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 The extra you pay for a SM over a DS is probably worth it in value. Equally quirky/costly to fix. The real gem is a Chapron DS, but good luck finding one. I wouldn't bother with a CX. I'd say the only other Citroen to consider would be a Traction Avant, but that is a different appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWN Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, bryankazmer said: The extra you pay for a SM over a DS is probably worth it in value. Equally quirky/costly to fix. The real gem is a Chapron DS, but good luck finding one. I wouldn't bother with a CX. I'd say the only other Citroen to consider would be a Traction Avant, but that is a different appeal. My second favorite Citroen. https://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/2017-shannons-melbourne-winter-classic-auction/H9IB7BP672B4JDF8/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 They call it "SM" for a reason... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 This is Citroen's supercar. There has never been anything else even remotely like it. There have been some comments in this thread about the styling, but the styling does not even scratch the surface of what this car is. I worked for a while in a shop that specialized in exotic and strange cars, and used to drive a Maserati to work every day. Not much scares me, but the idea of buying an SM gives me pause. What you have is a chassis with all the Citroen hydropneumatics, in other words a central hydraulic system for the suspension, brakes, steering etc. It will have Citroen's "spheres", presumably coiled hard brakelines in the suspension and all the other stuff that Citroen and no one else did. Nothing about the chassis will be familiar unless you have worked on Citroens like the DS. The engine is a Maserati V6, and has nothing in common with the later turbocharged ones. It is the same engine used in the Maserati Merak, a normally aspirated aluminum double overhead cam wet sleeve design from the days before any Maseratis were mass produced. The timing chain runs up between the cylinders. An SM needs a mechanic that doesn't scare easily, pays strict attention to the smallest details, and doesn't respond emotionally when things go wrong. If that isn't you, it is going to be pretty tough to find someone qualified to work on it. As others have mentioned, buy the best one you can possibly get. Don't buy a fixer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 As me Uncle Buck said, the secret to successfully repairing a French car is to learn to swear at it in French. But a Citroen might swear back! I think these Citroen are gorgeous and innovative cars, but can't see myself living with one. Marty Roth has owned at least one of these. He'd have insight. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Joel Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Nice '67 Belvedere 2 door hardtop in that Burt Reynolds chase clip! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Here's what needs to be done. An SM driveline (and ideally 4 on the floor) placed into a DS. Actually it has been done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeSNuxIRm8Y (well no under the hood shots in the video) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 If you love the car, then you love it. Pull the trigger. Hey, our hobby is all about the passion. It's not like we need these cars to drive to work. Having said that, I think a practical approach would be to ensure you have located a shop that will work on it before you buy it, unless you plan to do all the work yourself. These days, I think it would be a challenge to find a shop in my area that will work on anything from 1972, let alone a rare bird like this. Last thing you want is to spring for a car you have a passion for, and then wile away the years looking at it in your garage because you can't get it fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Akstraw said: If you love the car, then you love it. Pull the trigger. Hey, our hobby is all about the passion. It's not like we need these cars to drive to work. Having said that, I think a practical approach would be to ensure you have located a shop that will work on it before you buy it, unless you plan to do all the work yourself. These days, I think it would be a challenge to find a shop in my area that will work on anything from 1972, let alone a rare bird like this. Last thing you want is to spring for a car you have a passion for, and then wile away the years looking at it in your garage because you can't get it fixed. I was young and naive when I bought my '57 190SL. It ran pretty good but was not perfect. There was a garage literally across the street that did all of our company vehicles as well as my immediate family's cars. We supplied at least 20+ vehicles for maintenance on a regular basis. Not to mention he was very busy with lots of other work. I took the MB to him right after I bought it take care of a few minor things. The guy worked on it begrudgingly. The next time I took it for something he said that would be the last. He told me point blank 'I dont need another project car!' I was kinda put off but after awhile I understood his sentiment exactly. Yes, any car one finds, if you dont have great mechanical knowledge make sure you know someone that does, whom will work on your stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Luddy Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Hemi Joel said: Nice '67 Belvedere 2 door hardtop in that Burt Reynolds chase clip! GTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWN Posted May 11, 2023 Author Share Posted May 11, 2023 (edited) This read should be fun! Short read...he didn't have what it takes to carry through for the long run. http://www.davidhayes.com/sm/buying_an_sm.htm Real experiences from a real buyer enjoy the ride! What follows is my trek through three Citroen SMs to find an affordable, working car. Prologue: I'm 42 years old. I have a daughter about to start college. So WHY am I thinking of buying a Citroen SM? Because for the past 17 years, it's the ONLY car I've ever wanted, and 25 years is long enough to wait for the best car ever made. Edited May 11, 2023 by PWN (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 28 minutes ago, PWN said: This read should be fun! Short read...he didn't have what it takes to carry through for the long run. http://www.davidhayes.com/sm/buying_an_sm.htm Real experiences from a real buyer enjoy the ride! What follows is my trek through three Citroen SMs to find an affordable, working car. Prologue: I'm 42 years old. I have a daughter about to start college. So WHY am I thinking of buying a Citroen SM? Because for the past 17 years, it's the ONLY car I've ever wanted, and 25 years is long enough to wait for the best car ever made. I had a lot of my "Dream Cars" all of them sold to cover kids college bills. Looking back at things 20 years after graduation I'd highly recommend that all parents allow their kids to pay for the four years on their own. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWN Posted May 11, 2023 Author Share Posted May 11, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: I had a lot of my "Dream Cars" all of them sold to cover kids college bills. Looking back at things 20 years after graduation I'd highly recommend that all parents allow their kids to pay for the four years on their own. My grandfather (Emerson Clavel of Wauchula FL) sold the Adams Farwel to put my mom, aunt and uncle through college in the 40s. https://www.encyclopediadubuque.org/index.php/ADAMS-FARWELL_AUTOMOBILES Edited May 11, 2023 by PWN (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 Knowing nothing about citroens in general and sm,s in particular i,d advise the op,er to watch the movie The money pit. If he is still in the mood for some punishment i reccomend a 50+ foot wood hull sail boat. As an aside, the French build some fine airplanes.....bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 A somewhat humorous story I have with one of these cars. I went to college with the idea I would end up teaching auto mechanics. In the summer time I worked at a Buick/Pontiac dealership and one of these cars came in. The service manager and the rest of the mechanics were more than amused when they got the chance to say "college boy, we have the perfect car for you to fix." Needless to say "college boy" was way over his head and was not even sure which was the front end of the car! I think I am getting PTSD! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 These three cars are owned by my literal next door neighbor. I’m not a post war guy, but they sure are freakish in looks and mechanical attributes. Haven driven all three, I can say my favorite one is any pre war car………….😎 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 26 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said: A somewhat humorous story I have with one of these cars. I went to college with the idea I would end up teaching auto mechanics. In the summer time I worked at a Buick/Pontiac dealership and one of these cars came in. The service manager and the rest of the mechanics were more than amused when they got the chance to say "college boy, we have the perfect car for you to fix." Needless to say "college boy" was way over his head and was not even sure which was the front end of the car! I think I am getting PTSD! Steve, are you telling us that the Citroen out-gadgeted postwar GM? Which was always known for gadgety stuff... ### High school buddy upon discovering the pushbutton for the trunk release "what's THIS button do?" Me "DON'T TOUCH IT!!!" 1966 Ninety Eight LS "plunk whoosh" Me "Lemme find somewhere to pull over" Buddy "but what did the button do?" "Get out and close the trunk" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Bhigdog said: Knowing nothing about citroens in general and sm,s in particular i,d advise the op,er to watch the movie The money pit. If he is still in the mood for some punishment i reccomend a 50+ foot wood hull sail boat. As an aside, the French build some fine airplanes.....bob I had some hands on experience with the restoration of the Bugatti airplane all wood construction, it never flew. Both engines now power race cars that where never built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted May 12, 2023 Share Posted May 12, 2023 1937hd45 said "Both engines now power race cars that where never built". ? Wha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted May 12, 2023 Share Posted May 12, 2023 I always wanted a Cosworth Vega since word went out that GM was coming out with them around 1973 or 1972. Well fifty years later I did get one, and my Father was right, it really was a POS, and I did not regret it in the long run, and at least I can say now I did own one (I let someone else share the joy of owning it after a few years) So if it is your dream go for it, just make sure your wallet is padded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 Write Marty Roth, Forum member. He's had several of them an knows and likes them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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