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How do people find parts for obscure vintage cars.


TheCatOfAges

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Personally, I love 30s to 50s cars more than I do the 20s and before.(i have a '57 Fairlane 500 myself) but things wear out and break on these old cars, i was wondering how someone finds parts for say, a 1915 Oldsmobile, or maybe a 1909 Buick, or a 1904 Jeffery. I've been searching as i was curious, but have not found a single source for parts of this era. i assume there are specialists, but i haven't been able to locate any. I know Fords and such will be relatively simple to find parts for and fix up, as you can build a T from pretty much nothing if you have the money.

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You put an ad here or HCCA or Hemmings or club publication that deal with the make of car you need the part for. You go to swap meets and with eagle eyes hope to find it. :)

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Network thru clubs or online groups dedicated to make and era.

Talk to owners. 

Advertise as wanted and include a picture if at all possible. Many owners of obscure parts do not know what they have stuck away in the unknown box!

Remember that there are so many makes and years that no one can ever have parts for them all.

Most parts for the early cars (pre 1920) are in the hands of owners of such cars. They are hobbyists and not commercial businesses. 

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@1912Staver pretty much nailed it, but I would add that far fewer parts were intended to be replaced back then. As time rolled on you would clean, adjust, and re-use until the part was no longer serviceable. At that point, you would search for another or enlist help from a machinist, blacksmith, rebuilder, or whatever specialist is appropriate for the part.

 

Join a club for the marque. That will put you in touch with all the guys who may have a stash of parts in their garage for your particular model. Some of those guys are probably not accessible via the Internet. If the part is missing, or if nobody has what you need, you make the part from scratch. Sometimes that is a big problem and sometimes it isn't. A lot of things were made with human hands, and you just need to learn a new skill. If the part was made with some obsolete no-longer-existing mass manufacturing technology you may have a bigger problem. Very little is impossible if you are willing to learn new skills.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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Thank you so much for the responses, I've always been curious about how brass era cars and such get fixed and brought back from their multi decade slumbers. my '57 needed pushrods because the previous owner bent a bunch of them trying to drive it on old gas.

is there usually any hope for cars that have been sitting abandoned for decades, since possibly the  1940s and before? because cars sitting since the 1970s are usually too far gone in many places. like this nearly 100 years abandoned 1917 Cadillac I saw on YouTube has a broken valve train.  Abandoned 1917 Cadillac Has Been Sitting for 93 Years, V8 ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JXp1rTLa0c

 

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Just now, Bloo said:

It depends. A Cadillac of that age might have mechanical issues far too expensive to tackle. It probably isn't just valvetrain. There are a lot of fish in the sea. I would not be in a hurry to buy that.

something of that era would likely be far out of my budget to fix. i would love something 1920s thats a true unrestored car so i dont need to fix other peoples past fixes, as is what i bought with my '57 (two owner car, daily driver from 1958-1983 then farm driven only until ~1995). other than being neglected for years, it has taken being woken up quite well.

20221215_154533.jpg

(i know its really rough, I'm on a shoestring budget being in high school)

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1 hour ago, West Peterson said:

Join the specific marque club, make friends, get to know the people that have the parts, or make the parts.

Then, join AACA and have more fun.

Yes, and it is the networking with like-minded folks which make the hobby as great as it is.

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12 minutes ago, Bloo said:

@TheCatOfAges, I like your 57. My parents had one when I was really little. A close friend has one now. Which engine and transmission do you have?

its a 292 v8 with a 3 speed manual, and its a sedan, just how i like it.

someone chopped the muffler off at some point so I'm going to install oem style true duals, because if I'm going to spend money on an exhaust, and the duals cost the same as a single, why not do a light upgrade while you're at it. 

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My cars were mostly in the 50s and 60s, then I decided that I wanted to experience an "ancient" car. I bought a 1929 Cadillac and a 1926 Lincoln.  Both decent cars that need/needed mechanical work.  

Hey, I have been around old cars for decades, how difficult could these ancient things be? 

 

They have kicked my butt. The engineering is wayyyy different; You time the engine by moving the rotor, not the distributor. There is no regulator in the charging system and the generator has a third brush to adjust the charge rate. There are no fuel pumps. It uses engine vacuum to move fuel to the gravity feed updraft carburetor, which is buried deep inside the V on the V-8 engine. Nothing like a simple Y-block. 

 

BUT the really big hurdle is that when I work with my 50s & 60s cars, I either have the part in my garage, or I know exactly who to call that has it sitting in their garage.   Not so with the ancient cars. 

 

I have had to begin making all kinds of cold calling to ask about parts. Who has what?  (usually there is just one or two people who have or specialize in a particular ancient car) What parts are common? What parts are truly unobtanium? And how much to pay? (yes some old car people are all about maximizing their profit)  Some things you have to learn to just knuckle under and pay a price that you would never pay for a 50s or 60s part, but it is fair for an ancient part. 

 

Example: my 1929 Cadillac had a shattered distributor. Yup SHATTERED. The pot metal used in these cars was horrible and rotted and cracked and fell apart. There are NO GOOD USED parts in existence! Turns out there is a company that reproduces them. Yes, they made the molds and can take yours a create a perfect replacement.  The price? $2000. <gulp!>  Really? Isnt there a cheaper alternative? Nope! Be happy that anyone makes the part. Well I had mine done and it works fantastically.  

But, are you (a 50s car guy) ready to pay $2000 for a Y-block distributor?  The Radiator was $3000. The costs added up faster than anything I had experienced with my 50s & 60s cars. 

 

There is lots of other pot metal on the car that also shattered (its all time bomb waiting to break) and there is one guy who has the original parts AND WILL MAKE NEW CASTINGS.

Wow! happy to discover this person BUT while it isnt cheap (and BTW he isnt making much money on his parts, he is going to the foundry and chrome shop etc.) but there is a 6 month to 1 year wait to get your part. He delivered on every part I bought. I was scared in the beginning (did I just get ripped off?) but now I understand that's just how it works in the ancient car world. 

 

This delay does affect your scheduling.  Are you ready to wait 6 months to a year for a single 1957 Ford part, after you have paid for it? Well you do when you are working on ancient cars. 

 

The parts exist (or the people who can make them) but the new networking that I had to do and the prices I had to pay were eye opening.

There are no catalogues, no web sites, (the parts are too scarce, the demand too low) Most everything is word of mouth. 

 

Now I am getting used to how the ancient cars work (their technology and their suppliers)  But the timelines and thinking processes are totally different (troubleshooting is like nothing you have experienced) 

But when you eventually get used to it, it all becomes normal. 

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Since I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, get yourself to the Hershey swap meet.  For a taste, use Google Images to search on "Hershey swap meet" to see some of the stuff that is there.  It helps to do your homework first and contact vendors who might have parts for you before heading for Hershey, because the vendors are not grouped by car brand or period.  Lots of walking, looking, and talking.  Great fun!

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5 hours ago, TheCatOfAges said:

Personally, I love 30s to 50s cars more than I do the 20s and before.(i have a '57 Fairlane 500 myself) but things wear out and break on these old cars, i was wondering how someone finds parts for say, a 1915 Oldsmobile, or maybe a 1909 Buick, or a 1904 Jeffery. I've been searching as i was curious, but have not found a single source for parts of this era. i assume there are specialists, but i haven't been able to locate any. I know Fords and such will be relatively simple to find parts for and fix up, as you can build a T from pretty much nothing if you have the money.

 

I completely agree about joining a club for the marque, visiting Hershey, or asking on this forum.

 

Otherwise:

 

Often, if you are thorough in your research, you may find a specialist that can help. In your probably random examples in your first post, we offer carburetor rebuilding kits for your 1957 Fairlane, the 1909 Buick, and the 1915 Oldsmobile. I have no record of a 1904 Jeffery. The first Jeffery of which I have a record is 1914, and yes, we do offer a rebuilding kit for it.

 

There are a host of parts such as this that specialists are reproducing; body parts are in a different category. You just have to look.

 

The internet makes searching MUCH easier. Gone are the days when one spent days reading a HMN page by page, from cover to cover.

 

But one's best initial ploy is to join the major (sometimes only) club for the marque. Unless you have something like an Adams-Farwell, chances are someone in the club knows someone, that has a friend........

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Bhigdog has it nailed. Labour costs are the killer for getting things remade unless you get it done in a third world country - then you get what you pay for. I have made and have had made numerous parts. The ones I have outsourced are what I cannot get the required precision on or do the correct materials - and then I get multiples done to bring down the overall costs and hope I can move the surplus to recover some of the outlay. I found a company in England that will make 1 obsolete bearing for you if you want it but it's cheaper as the quantity rises as the set up remains the same. There is a Sydney Australia company that will make any generator / starter / magneto brush that you want. Again, cheaper by the dozen but not "cattle station prices" as individual units.

As for the parts I have made it's a matter of nutting out how it was originally done and having a go. I have done horn buttons and other electricals, mechanical parts, body parts, data plates and simple castings - all with quite basic tools.

3D scanning and printing is going to be a game changer and I am dipping my toes into this area to see if I can get some throttle and spark levers done at a "realistic" price. But like everything - as the tech advances price will usually fall

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4 hours ago, TheCatOfAges said:

is there usually any hope for cars that have been sitting abandoned for decades, since possibly the  1940s and before? because cars sitting since the 1970s are usually too far gone in many places. like this nearly 100 years abandoned 1917 Cadillac I saw on YouTube has a broken valve train.  

 

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

If it was once made by the hand of man it can again be made by the hand of man. All we're talking about is $$$$$$$....................Bob

 

And THIS is the issue with ancient field type cars. Anything can be fixed BUT at what cost?

Every single car has a restoration price point where is COULD be restored, but its way cheaper to buy one already done. (In the case of ancient and brass cars they might have been done in the 50s & 60s)

BTW this include vaulted cars like Packard Twelves, Cad V-16s and even Duesenburgs. I saw a photo of a Duesenberg J motor that had essentially been stored under water in a basement. The Duesenberg expert showing me the photo said that it COULD be done, but even being a Big D, it was beyond its value. 

 

The hulk on the trailer is a parts car. Whatever the youtuber says about "only needing a valve train" is wrong. Its missing most everything. To bring this back would be hundreds of thousands of dollars in parts not to mention time. It simply aint worth it. There does exist other 1917 Cadillacs that can be fixed. Not economically, you will still likely be upside down, but not beyond reason. 

 

The hulk does have value as a parts car because not uncommon to find an ancient car restored in the 50s that has completely wrong parts or even broken parts were installed because that's all the owner could find in 1955. So the hulk is not worthless, but it is not restorable either.  

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5 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Short answer is you either make the part yourself, or pay someone else to make it for you. 

Yes, but I would add another to that, often the easiest:

Call someone who has it.

If none of these are viable option, it's likely you're over your head ---> Backyards, driveways and garages around the globe have millions  (or more) of these examples (i.e. people having gotten over their heads) laying around until such project gets sold (too often to another person getting over their head) or hauled to dumpster/scrapyard.

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6 minutes ago, carbking said:

 

I completely agree about joining a club for the marque, visiting Hershey, or asking on this forum.

 

Otherwise:

 

Often, if you are thorough in your research, you may find a specialist that can help. In your probably random examples in your first post, we offer carburetor rebuilding kits for your 1957 Fairlane, the 1909 Buick, and the 1915 Oldsmobile. I have no record of a 1904 Jeffery. The first Jeffery of which I have a record is 1914, and yes, we do offer a rebuilding kit for it.

 

There are a host of parts such as this that specialists are reproducing; body parts are in a different category. You just have to look.

 

The internet makes searching MUCH easier. Gone are the days when one spent days reading a HMN page by page, from cover to cover.

 

But one's best initial ploy is to join the major (sometimes only) club for the marque. Unless you have something like an Adams-Farwell, chances are someone in the club knows someone, that has a friend........

 

Jon.

My bad, i didnt realize Jeffery didnt exist before 1914, i was giving examples of obscure makes.

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7 minutes ago, m-mman said:

 

 

And THIS is the issue with ancient field type cars. Anything can be fixed BUT at what cost?

Every single car has a restoration price point where is COULD be restored, but its way cheaper to buy one already done. (In the case of ancient and brass cars they might have been done in the 50s & 60s)

BTW this include vaulted cars like Packard Twelves, Cad V-16s and even Duesenburgs. I saw a photo of a Duesenberg J motor that had essentially been stored under water in a basement. The Duesenberg expert showing me the photo said that it COULD be done, but even being a Big D, it was beyond its value. 

 

The hulk on the trailer is a parts car. Whatever the youtuber says about "only needing a valve train" is wrong. Its missing most everything. To bring this back would be hundreds of thousands of dollars in parts not to mention time. It simply aint worth it. There does exist other 1917 Cadillacs that can be fixed. Not economically, you will still likely be upside down, but not beyond reason. 

 

The hulk does have value as a parts car because not uncommon to find an ancient car restored in the 50s that has completely wrong parts or even broken parts were installed because that's all the owner could find in 1955. So the hulk is not worthless, but it is not restorable either.  

He just wants the motor to swap into something. The frame is rusted nearly in two. I do like those lights on the cowl though, they are neat.

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1 hour ago, m-mman said:

My cars were mostly in the 50s and 60s, then I decided that I wanted to experience an "ancient" car. I bought a 1929 Cadillac and a 1926 Lincoln.  Both decent cars that need/needed mechanical work.  

Hey, I have been around old cars for decades, how difficult could these ancient things be? 

 

They have kicked my butt. The engineering is wayyyy different; You time the engine by moving the rotor, not the distributor. There is no regulator in the charging system and the generator has a third brush to adjust the charge rate. There are no fuel pumps. It uses engine vacuum to move fuel to the gravity feed updraft carburetor, which is buried deep inside the V on the V-8 engine. Nothing like a simple Y-block. 

 

BUT the really big hurdle is that when I work with my 50s & 60s cars, I either have the part in my garage, or I know exactly who to call that has it sitting in their garage.   Not so with the ancient cars. 

 

I have had to begin making all kinds of cold calling to ask about parts. Who has what?  (usually there is just one or two people who have or specialize in a particular ancient car) What parts are common? What parts are truly unobtanium? And how much to pay? (yes some old car people are all about maximizing their profit)  Some things you have to learn to just knuckle under and pay a price that you would never pay for a 50s or 60s part, but it is fair for an ancient part. 

 

Example: my 1929 Cadillac had a shattered distributor. Yup SHATTERED. The pot metal used in these cars was horrible and rotted and cracked and fell apart. There are NO GOOD USED parts in existence! Turns out there is a company that reproduces them. Yes, they made the molds and can take yours a create a perfect replacement.  The price? $2000. <gulp!>  Really? Isnt there a cheaper alternative? Nope! Be happy that anyone makes the part. Well I had mine done and it works fantastically.  

But, are you (a 50s car guy) ready to pay $2000 for a Y-block distributor?  The Radiator was $3000. The costs added up faster than anything I had experienced with my 50s & 60s cars. 

 

There is lots of other pot metal on the car that also shattered (its all time bomb waiting to break) and there is one guy who has the original parts AND WILL MAKE NEW CASTINGS.

Wow! happy to discover this person BUT while it isnt cheap (and BTW he isnt making much money on his parts, he is going to the foundry and chrome shop etc.) but there is a 6 month to 1 year wait to get your part. He delivered on every part I bought. I was scared in the beginning (did I just get ripped off?) but now I understand that's just how it works in the ancient car world. 

 

This delay does affect your scheduling.  Are you ready to wait 6 months to a year for a single 1957 Ford part, after you have paid for it? Well you do when you are working on ancient cars. 

 

The parts exist (or the people who can make them) but the new networking that I had to do and the prices I had to pay were eye opening.

There are no catalogues, no web sites, (the parts are too scarce, the demand too low) Most everything is word of mouth. 

 

Now I am getting used to how the ancient cars work (their technology and their suppliers)  But the timelines and thinking processes are totally different (troubleshooting is like nothing you have experienced) 

But when you eventually get used to it, it all becomes normal. 

Ive watched ancient videos of the lincolns and such being built, i would not want to work on a pre flathead v12 lincoln. They are a one piece head right?

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43 minutes ago, TheCatOfAges said:

He just wants the motor to swap into something. The frame is rusted nearly in two. I do like those lights on the cowl though, they are neat.

About the only thing any sane person would swap a 1917 Cadillac engine in to is another 1917 Cadillac.

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5 hours ago, TheCatOfAges said:

I know its really rough, I'm on a shoestring budget being in high school.

Your budget will gradually increase once you get

a job and start saving and investing.  If your parents

happen to be interested, that would be ideal, but you

can't count on that.  Many years of fun await you,

especially if you're involved in clubs now!

 

Like you, I was interested in antique cars even in

high school.  I bought my first antique, a 1957 Buick

4-door hardtop, right after I graduated from college.

Now my collection has grown.  I have only one early car

as you describe, and when I was searching, I wanted 

something obscure, such as a Pilot, a Wills Sainte Claire,

a Roamer:  They are fascinating to fellow hobbyists, even

at large shows.

 

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9 minutes ago, TheCatOfAges said:

I think his thoughts were "early 1920s banger racer" of sorts. 

Again, a YouTube fantasy.  
I believe that the 1917 Cadillac used a flat plane crankshaft.  In any event it didn’t have counterweights.  The bearings are cast in place, and the blocks (the part with the cylinders) are bolted to the crankcase.  
 

I suspect the YouTuber sees it as a flathead V8 that is just as good and can be as souped up as a 30s Ford.  
 

The reality is that the Cadillac motor has very low compression (4 to 1?) there’s no good method of increasing it and even if you made a downdraft manifold to improve breathing, it is not going to rev up much over 3000 rpm. 
 

Any faster and it’s going to throw a rod.  Nope, you can’t build these ancient engines into performance versions.  They were made for street use and that’s all they will ever be good for.  

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5 hours ago, TheCatOfAges said:

He just wants the motor to swap into something. The frame is rusted nearly in two. I do like those lights on the cowl though, they are neat.

 

4 hours ago, m-mman said:

Again, a YouTube fantasy.  
I believe that the 1917 Cadillac used a flat plane crankshaft.  In any event it didn’t have counterweights.  The bearings are cast in place, and the blocks (the part with the cylinders) are bolted to the crankcase.  
 

And if the valve train is the issue, then it’s a world of pain - the cam gear hangs down from the top cover and a stuck valve totally destroys it.

 

There was some guy on YouTube that kept trying to turn one over without verifying the valves and all he would have achieved is totally destroying the valve train

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9 hours ago, John Smeltzer said:

I have found that when working on early cars,and collector cars in general  it’s easy to spend more money and time than they will ever be worth. I do it for the love of the car and try not to think about the fact that I invested 3 times what the car is worth  just in parts and materials, I don’t even put a value on the hundreds of hours I have spent making parts and repairing 100 years of neglect. I have driven half way across the country and to the Canadian border (1000 miles) just to buy some parts of a Hudson that was being rat rodded, and to save one from being buried in a creek bed because it was in the middle of nowhere on a farm. that was there way to get rid of it .And I only needed a few parts from ether score, but 20s part are sometimes very hard to find if you don’t have a Ford 

 

John 

owner of a 25 Hudson that sat in a barn for 60+ years before I started down this rabbit hole. But find it very satisfying to save a piece of history

 

 

Ive already done that with my '57, car was purchased for 1k, and ive dumped 4500 (my entire summers worth of savings) into it. And its just barely road worthy. Cars estimated value if i were to sell it? 2500 max. Its a sedan with a 3 speed, not exactly sought after. Im doing blanket interior, etc, just to keep things simple and low budget (front seat shows its 95k miles). and parts availability isnt very good on these (as its not a chevy) but its nothing like what im reading about pre depression era cars. all my trim clips are broken for the roof trim, and i havent found a good source for new ones. Im also missing a piece of unobtainium trim that seemingly always breaks on all sedans. (Top piece between the doors)

 

6 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

 

And if the valve train is the issue, then it’s a world of pain - the cam gear hangs down from the top cover and a stuck valve totally destroys it.

 

There was some guy on YouTube that kept trying to turn one over without verifying the valves and all he would have achieved is totally destroying the valve train

I knew he would break something as he was forcing it over, i had my vave covers off first thing to make sure i didnt bend pushrods, only to find them already bent. 

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A friend of mine needed a water pump for his 1908 Buick 2 cylinder.  I took the water pump from my 2 cylinder Buick and we made a new pumps. It required making a new casting for the housing, machined all of the parts, new compression nut for the water pump shaft, had new gears made, and other finishing work.  All done it was the better part of a year to get everything done and he now has a $1,800 water pump.  Almost all labor.  You can not go to the local parts store to get a water pump replacement.

 

I needed a muffler end for my car so I went over to his shop and took the muffler off his car and sent the ends out to be recast.

 

Getting and keeping these old cars going is all about networking with people with same or similar cars along with a good machinist friend(s).  

 

You also get to know the nicest people.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, m-mman said:

Again, a YouTube fantasy.  
I believe that the 1917 Cadillac used a flat plane crankshaft.  In any event it didn’t have counterweights.  The bearings are cast in place, and the blocks (the part with the cylinders) are bolted to the crankcase.  
 

I suspect the YouTuber sees it as a flathead V8 that is just as good and can be as souped up as a 30s Ford.  
 

The reality is that the Cadillac motor has very low compression (4 to 1?) there’s no good method of increasing it and even if you made a downdraft manifold to improve breathing, it is not going to rev up much over 3000 rpm. 
 

Any faster and it’s going to throw a rod.  Nope, you can’t build these ancient engines into performance versions.  They were made for street use and that’s all they will ever be good for.  

 

The best use of that engine on the rusty chassis is as a boat anchor............I'm a Cadillac fan, and have owned a bunch of them, but they are better at making heat than horsepower till the mid 30's. 

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12 hours ago, m-mman said:

Again, a YouTube fantasy.  
I believe that the 1917 Cadillac used a flat plane crankshaft.  In any event it didn’t have counterweights.  The bearings are cast in place, and the blocks (the part with the cylinders) are bolted to the crankcase.  
 

I suspect the YouTuber sees it as a flathead V8 that is just as good and can be as souped up as a 30s Ford.  
 

The reality is that the Cadillac motor has very low compression (4 to 1?) there’s no good method of increasing it and even if you made a downdraft manifold to improve breathing, it is not going to rev up much over 3000 rpm. 
 

Any faster and it’s going to throw a rod.  Nope, you can’t build these ancient engines into performance versions.  They were made for street use and that’s all they will ever be good for.  

i dont think he wanted to hop it up, rather make it run, fix it up, and swap it into a late teens car as a sort of "jalopy racer"such as an early version of these, i remember reading about jalopy racers existing in the early 20s, which a 1917 motor in a smaller car would fit in. THOSE PERILOUS ROADSTERS

such as these. 

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how many projects are sitting unfinished forever in shops due to no parts ?   and with new tires on them lol........i see so many in shops needing a total restoration.....but they put new tires on first........i am guilty myself for restoring a 28 chev roadster.....and i dont see it as even that rare of a car ,very tough finding parts as its lower and quite different than coupe,few years of searching for a few items and got wrong windshield from 4 door open touring,now im making the wider windshield frame from two open touring 4 dr ones

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20 hours ago, Layden B said:

Many owners of obscure parts do not know what they have stuck away in the unknown box!

And you will find those boxes UNDER the table at a swap meet.

 

Yes, it pays to get on your hands & knees and look inside!

 

Craig

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34 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

Getting and keeping these old cars going is all about networking with people with same or similar cars along with a good machinist friend(s).  

 

My friend Larry says it all. If you are new to the old car interest  it takes time to get to know who to ask or go to  so you may wind up with a useable part or find a replacement. The current "in" word is networking - , it used to be 'spread the word' the best thing is to belong to the specific make club for the car you own, and then get to be friends with someone who has the same model and year car.  Some modern parts do interchange with older cars - ignition for the 1930-34 "side draft" Franklin 6 cylinder engine will interchange with certain year post war Chevrolet is one example.  Join a club and become friendly and active and the "secrets" shall be shared.

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