Hand cranking

[32buick67]

Has anyone tried to hand crank their car to start it?

 

I might try, just to say I did, and then I will have a new good story for my doctor as to why my arm hurts.

 

Hand cranking my 1932 272cuin engine isn't easy when warm, although I hand cranked a Farmall 450 tractor from cold to start, so maybe the Buick is possible?  The Farmall is 280cuin, 6.6:1 compression, 4 cylinder.

 

The crazy things we do...

[Matt Harwood]

Your Buick doesn't have a hand crank for starting, it has one for setting timing and valve clearance.

 

"Just to say you did" won't be much comfort when your arm is hanging off your shoulder at a weird and painful angle...

[dibarlaw]

My 25 Standard 6 started easly with a half turn of the crank (IMPORTANT retard spark) Again, realalisticly it is needed to set timing and troubleshooting. But when the battery is down it may become a necessity.

 I did help a friend re-start his 1913-31 at the Old Car Festival back in 2016. Several short quick straight- up pulls with my left arm which is better in case of a kick back. Well it did kick a bit. My left rotator cuff reminds me still of that day.

[Brian_Heil]

Early in the ownership of my 1923 Model 45 we had a bitter cold snap.  -17F in the attached garage.  Car had not been started in 3 months.  It started on the 3rd pull of the crank. That was good enough for me.  
 

Whatever year the BCA National was held in Rochester, MN several of us took the SS Badger Ferry across Lake Michigan.  'Somebody' left the lights on in the bowels of the ship.  4+ hours later and the last cars  in, us, were the first ones out in Wisconsin.  Everyone was bottled up behind me. 
 

Out came the luggage and the rear seat in a flurry to find the crank.  Started on the first pull with the deck hands cheering. 

Edited January 15 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Steves Buick]

At least wait until after Christmas, be sure to get the video on you tube and have your insurance card ready!! 

p.s......dont tell the wife what you're about to do !! we'll keep it a forum secret! 😃

[Brian_Heil]

What’s the big deal anyway?

[Buick Downunder]

I start my 1925 25x regularly with the hand crank. 2 turns of ‘suck’ with the choke out and ignition off. Choke turned off, fully retarded on the steering wheel and ignition on - take up to 11 o’clock on compression stroke and turn over and down swiftly. Keep you thumb under your fingers!  
 

it should start with no fuss. You should not need to do this more than once or twice and should not turn the motor over and over. 
 

the crank handle is designed to start the vehicle by the way. There were no corner shops to get a new battery or jump start in those days. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Buick Downunder (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

I made contact with a previous owner’s son who had my 1925 Buick in the late 50's.  In 1958 his Dad was looking for an antique car to restore.  He said they would take it to the drive in movie theater and throw a bucket under the water pump as soon as it was parked.  Then they would put the top down.  At the end of the show, they would pour the water back into the radiator.  The car did not have a good battery so they would hand crank the car to start it and then drive home.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[32buick67]

2 hours ago, Steves Buick said:

At least wait until after Christmas, be sure to get the video on you tube and have your insurance card ready!! 

p.s......dont tell the wife what you're about to do !! we'll keep it a forum secret! 😃

Funny you mention it, my wife spent quite a lot of time recently cranking the engine with a ratchet and also the original crank handle.  She was indexing the engine so I could sneak my arms and the replacement piston into position from the underside of the engine.  She understood very well how and when to apply force based on my instructions... nothing was harmed in the tedious and slow process, including me!

 

Facinating modern stories about hand starting.

 

[Matt Harwood]

For every guy who says, "Mine always starts on the first pull!" there are 20 cars that won't start, kick back, and generally don't cooperate with the process.

 

Just because you can start it with a hand crank doesn't mean it's a good idea or that it will be a snap. I'd rather go to the dentist than try to hand crank an 8-cylinder car, even one in perfect health.

[edinmass]

 

 

Anyone want to try and crank a Pierce 66? We will get drinks, popcorn, and an ambulance ready for the entertainment.

[Buick35]

I went to an A.&P. school in the 70s and they taught us how to hand prop an airplane engine.I heard they don't teach that anymore.

[Str8-8-Dave]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Anyone want to try and crank a Pierce 66? We will get drinks, popcorn, and an ambulance ready for the entertainment.

I found just the guy- click link to You-tube clip, press start, enjoy the show...

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=i+lift+things+up+and+put+them+down&cvid=a0dfa6d19c8a4b6ba139e708a1e2fe9d&aqs=edge.0.0l7.12584j0j1&pglt=171&PC=U531&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3di%2blift%2bthings%2bup%2band%2bput%2bthem%2bdown%26cvid%3da0dfa6d19c8a4b6ba139e708a1e2fe9d%26aqs%3dedge.0.0l7.12584j0j1%26pglt%3d171%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dU531&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=1049D42D571161C8E8051049D42D571161C8E805&FORM=WRVORC

Edited December 13, 2021 by Str8-8-Dave (see edit history)

[Brian_Heil]

I agree and would not (I’d go so far as to say never) volunteer to hand start someone else’s engine. No thanks.  I still 40+ years later shave with my left hand because I spent a year with a shattered right hand from playing hockey right after college. 
 

I’ve hand started my ‘23 twice in 26 years.  Carefully. 
 

The 1911 is 165 cu. in. and meant to be hand cranked. It does have an electric starter added and a high tension impulse mag..  And I know exactly where the timing is set and check the lever twice before stepping out front.
 

I will say there is some mechanic’s pride and satisfaction to give the crank on the 1911 a quarter turn pull and have it jump to life on a tour while other’s rigs, who are always paying close attention, are not up to the task.  That nice start came with hours of  hard work to have everything sorted out.  Showing off?  Why, yes.  

 

Take all the good days you can get with a brass car.  The Brass Gremlins are just waiting for their opportunity to bite you somewhere else. 

[michealbernal]

I hand crank started my Allis chalmers Model M, Cletrac K20 and the  Wisconson Vf4 on my wood splitter until I finally realized I was cursing for a busing and converted them all to electric start.  The only thing I still hand crank to start is my Fairbanks Morse 3 hp Z engine.  The crank for my 1928 Buick Standard stays under the seat.  If the battery is too weak to start it I put a charger on it for a while. At 75 I don't need a broken arm.   

[Rock10]

I remember watching a guy try to kick start a Harley. He got it wrong and it threw him over the handlebars.

You guys are braver than me.

[32buick67]

Well, I think the consensus is that just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

 

This could a car starting priority list: 1. use the battery and starter motor, 2. park on a hill and pop the clutch, 3. call for a tow and get some drinks and popcorn to live healthy for another day.

[JFranklin]

Were did all the sense of adventure go? Of course I think I wouldn't want to crank a car that I didn't know, but if done properly there should not be anything to worry about.

[32buick67]

4 minutes ago, JFranklin said:

Were did all the sense of adventure go? Of course I think I wouldn't want to crank a car that I didn't know, but if done properly there should not be anything to worry about.

The engineer in me says "you'll shoot your eye out kid", and the sanguine in me says "hit the button Max!!!"....forever a dichotomy...

[Oldtech]

6 hours ago, Buick35 said:

I went to an A.&P. school in the 70s and they taught us how to hand prop an airplane engine.I heard they don't teach that anymore.

I had a plane for 8 years that that was the ONLY way to start it . ( Piper pa-15)

[Swear57]

I replaced my low tension mag on my 13 Buick with a ZR4 from Marks Magneto. The low tension mag took for ever to get started. Now pull the choke & 3 to 6 half pulls & it's running, when warmed up 2 to 3 half pulls. So much nicer. I also have to thank Mark Shaw for his help. 

[Morgan Wright]

I love to let teenagers hand start my 1917 at car shows, it makes them feel strong to impress the girls.

 

Also, it lets me know when the car needs a tune up. If it doesn't start on the first or second pull, I know something needs tweaking.

[Larry Schramm]

My 1915 Buick truck only has a crank to start.  No starter yet.  

 

Generally it can sit for months. 

 

Starting process:  

 

Turn on the fuel,

pull the choke,

set the idle up some,

retard the timing,

turn on the ignition,

re-check the idle and timing,

pull the crank up only. 

Truck usually starts on the third or 4th pull.

 

It takes three or four times because it is an updraft carb and the distance from the carb to the cylinders can be almost 24 inches.  Takes a couple of pulls to get fuel to the cylinders. 

 

If it does not start that easily, then there is a problem. 

[Morgan Wright]

3 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

My 1915 Buick truck only has a crank to start.  No starter yet.  

 

 

Is it true that the only Buick in 1915 with electric start was the model 55 with the big 6 engine? And that they gave it the electric start because 339 cubic inches was too big to hand crank? I wonder if anybody knows.

 

I hear Cadillac had to perfect the electric start before it came out with the V8 but then again Pierce Arrow had a 825 cubic inch engine with only a hand starter.

[Grimy]

27 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said:

but then again Pierce Arrow had a 825 cubic inch engine with only a hand starter

Uh, no.  Compressed air starter before their electric starter, which had a solenoid and thus a push button.  Earlier big Pierces, less than 825 cid, had to be hand cranked as did others pre-1912.

[Morgan Wright]

Still 700+ cubic inches right, and hand start?

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, Morgan Wright said:

Still 700+ cubic inches right, and hand start?

Hi Morgan, it took me awhile to look up information for you:

 

* 825 cid (5 x 7 b&s) engines withOUT compressed air or electric start:  203 cars in 1912

* 825 cid engines with compressed air starter: 200 cars in 1913

* >700 cid engines withOUT compressed air or electric start:  206 cars (5.25 x 5.5 b&s, 714 cid) in 1912

 

So you're correct that 203 cars of 825 cid had to be hand-cranked.  Glad I wasn't around for that....

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[HarryLime]

I have two neighbors that hand prop their airplanes , with no one in the cockpit on the brakes .

[Morgan Wright]

My back hurts.

[Larry Schramm]

5 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

 

Is it true that the only Buick in 1915 with electric start was the model 55 with the big 6 engine? And that they gave it the electric start because 339 cubic inches was too big to hand crank? I wonder if anybody knows.

 

I hear Cadillac had to perfect the electric start before it came out with the V8 but then again Pierce Arrow had a 825 cubic inch engine with only a hand starter.

 

Buick cars had electric start in 1914, but Buick trucks did not get electric start until 1916.

[32buick67]

2 hours ago, HarryLime said:

I have two neighbors that hand prop their airplanes , with no one in the cockpit on the brakes .

I saw this done on a Piper Cherokee 6, 8.7:1 compression ratio, Lycoming 6cyl engine, about 542cuin, 300hp.

My job was to remove the external battery charger from the battery compartment once the engine started.

I was waiting in the prop wash, less than 2ft from the prop.

 

Hand cranking doesn't scare me, maybe because I have done it before on a variety of engines and know what to expect, or maybe I am one crank away from my last...back ache indeed!

 

[Century Eight]

Many good comments, but a most important one I only saw once or twice is “keep your thumb next to your fingers” that is to say don't grip the crank like you are grabbing it.  That way If the engine kicks back, the crank will jump out of your hand instead of taking your arm around with it at who knows how many rpms.  If you must try it, practice on a warm engine and do it with your left, or non-dominant a hand.  Then, don't do it any more - go buy a new battery!

[Bloo]

Use left hand, dominant or not. Engage crank, down low at about 7 o clock. Put all fingers UNDER the handle, including thumb. Pull straight up.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I've had two or three — and worked on many more cars that had no electric starter. There are several things to keep in mind. Most of all the car has to be properly tuned and the drill regarding the spark always adhered to. Many of the big cars were never intended to be crank started...you cranked them around several times with the spark off, then hit the button in the center of the dual ignition switch to send a spark through with the buzzer coil. That started the engine. Why isn't this done much today? Because very few of the cars that worked that way have been properly sorted. Still, I've started a Silver Ghost with a crank. I've also cranked one around two or three times and then flipped the spark advance and had it start but that only works if the valves are tight and everything else is in order. It's like anything else...it's dangerous only if you do it wrong. The big problem is that most people haven't done it enough to get accustomed to the drill. I think driving any early car with an electric pump, that was meant to use a vacuum tank, is about 10 times as dangerous.

 

One of my goals for my Mitchell is to have it "start on the spark."

 

In a properly constructed crank start car the position of the dogs on the crank handle was very carefully calculated so that they engaged with a piston about 2/3 of of the way to TDC. I do not know if this was done with later cars where the starting handle was mostly for turning the engine for timing. It may not have been, in which case starting one that way might be a bit more problematical.

Edited December 31, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[32buick67]

I finally tried it, with healthy success!

 

I started my 1932 Buick series 60 by hand, with virtually no effort!

 

I admit I maybe cheated a bit in the closed garage (car was warm to the touch, maybe 100F (40C),  after sitting an hour after a drive around town).

Its 30F ambient outside here in MN now.

 

Three easy pulls with my left arm and it started with a healthy idle using the original setup (Marvel carb, ignition, etc.).

No kickback, no issues, the engine rolled into idle just fine and didn't have any startling effect on the hand crank I was holding.

 

I asked my wife to spot me for safety - she looked at me with a surprised and thrilled eyes when it started, like wow, it actually started!

 

For reference, the Buick started easier than the old tractors I have started by hand in the fields, and maybe this is no surprise to some, but it was an interesting delight to me.

 

[Marty Roth]

Our 6 year old grandson delighted in showing folks how he could crank start our 1912 Oakland back during the Glidden Tour in Daytona Beach,

even though he had to stand on a vintage Coca-Cola case to reach it and get some leverage.

 

I've crank started our '14 Buick, '15 Hudson, '30 Packard, and '34 Buick,

and the increased compression does make it more difficult.