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Would you go electric?

Laughing Coyote

By Laughing Coyote
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Skvitt 2,500+ Points

Skvitt

Posted
Posted

Just imagine the situation. Hot summer evening, new

urban subdivision, each household owns 2 Teslas. Air conditioners running full blast. People coming from work and plugging their Teslas in, drawing 50A each. Can power distribution handle it? Is it even designed for it?

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TerryB 25,000+ Points

TerryB

Posted
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Skvitt said:

Just imagine the situation. Hot summer evening, new

urban subdivision, each household owns 2 Teslas. Air conditioners running full blast. People coming from work and plugging their Teslas in, drawing 50A each. Can power distribution handle it? Is it even designed for it?

Yes it is designed for it.  Your qualifier that it is a new subdivision would be the reason.

Edited by TerryB (see edit history)
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3macboys 10,000+ Points

3macboys

Posted
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For consideration, what could be argued as the first modern electric car the GM EV1 is now eligible for AACA so why convert another car to electric when the "new" electrics will become eligible sooner than we realize, and yes I know that GM took almost all of the EV1's back in and crushed them but I suspect that a few were hidden. 

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steven 123 250+ Points

steven 123

Posted
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definitely not....after months and months of work when you first start your dream car it sounds like a new baby making its first crying noise....nothing can beat that not even your first car show and everyone watch's you pull in and comes to see your work...... restoring or building a vintage car is a labor of love not a kit you buy in a box and install 

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Str8-8-Dave 5,000+ Points

Str8-8-Dave

Posted
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A few of my thoughts:

 

Would I convert an ICE collectible car to electric?  NO.  I enjoy working on my 31 Buick.  I enjoy the smell of it.  I enjoy the way it looks.  I enjoy the research sleuthing to try to make it pretty much as it was.  I enjoy the many skills I've learned, woodworking, wiring, trim work.  If I were younger I and my money situation would allow I would have a 40x60 pole barn with a paint booth.  Past that point now, have to pick my cars carefully to stay within my limitations.

 

Would I consider buying a modern electric vehicle?  Maybe, depends on how so called clean renewable energy evolves.  I think that is a good word for what is happening today, renewable energy IS evolving.  One of the most promising things I have read is the pursuit of a manufacturing practical solid state lithium battery.  These have been made in the laboratory setting and their advantages over today's contemporary liquid lithium batteries is so dramatic virtually every OEM on the planet has an advanced engineering program in pursuit of solving the manufacturing problems.  The solid state batteries require much less time to recharge and a fully charged battery has 50-60% better range than a comparable liquid lithium battery.  I'm also waiting for infrastructure to start to evolve.  Fossil fuel infrastructure has evolved since the oil boom in this country, it is much better quality and it's hard to find a place in the US where you have to drive more than a few miles to fill up.  When gas stations start having a parking area with charging stations you will know infrastructure is beginning to support demand.  

 

Steve Moskowitz commented about how the AACA will vanish eventually when electric vehicles take over.  I'm not so sure about that.  There will be a long period of time where hobbyists will still be around that had experience with fossil fuel cars and will have interest in collecting, restoring and driving them.  Before I got involved in the AACA I was a member of the Antique Classic Boat Society- ACBS.  Traditionally ACBS members belonged to the wood boat ilk, the club was structured to support wood boaters and fiberglass boats were shunned, no stinkin fiberglass boats at an ACBS show...   

 

Then the demographics began to shift from folks who grew up with and collected and coveted wood boats to those who grew up around fiberglass boats.  They were less interested in all that wood and varnish and soaking bottoms to get them to swell and stop leaking water into their bilges.  As the paradigm shift progressed the membership started to drop off, many wood boaters got to an age where they quit the hobby or died off.  Finally the highest levels of club officers figured out they better start welcoming fiberglass boaters. 

 

I like to think I played a small part in that, I owned and restored a 1965 Chris Craft fiberglass Sea Skiff, hull number 12 of only 80 built up to that time that were made of fiberglass out of about 13,700 Chris Craft Sea Skiffs, the rest were wood.  The boat I restored was part of an experiment by Chris Craft to try their hand at manufacturing fiberglass boats.  The boat works in Algonac, MI was dedicated to wood and Chris Craft saw sales falter.  They bought the Thompson Boat factory in Cortland New York which was already making fiberglass boats.  The experiment resulted in phasing out wood boats and launched the Chris Craft Commander series boats which were fiberglass.  Today their boats are exclusively fiberglass and manufactured in Pompano Beach, Florida. 

 

I restored my boat to original layout and specifications relying on The Maritime Museum in Newport News VA which had acquired every hull card for every Chris Craft boat that Chris Craft had long with engineering drawings and advertising.  I belonged to the Chris Craft Commanders website and documented the restoration of that boat there.  When finished it was a good reliable and fairly seaworthy boat that was kept on Garden Bay, part of Big Bay DeNoc Lake Michigan where we enjoyed the boat for several years.  When the time came to sell, which happened to be coincidental with ACBS's decision to start hosting collectors of fiberglass boats the boat wound up on Ebay where it languished until the Woody Boater magazine editor spotted the ad, approached me for permission to run a story and did.  Enter Brian Gagnon who was then the commodore and president of ACBS and was looking for a fiberglass boat to add to his collection for the purpose of promoting fiberglass boat owner interest and ACBS membership.  The rest, as they say, is history for ACBS.   Brian Gagnon drove from NJ with a Toyota SUV, hooked up my boat and drove it back to NJ where he slapped a name on it's transom and took it to the 2014 ACBS fall boat show at Skaneateles Lake NY. 

 

 I'm hoping the AACA will be as flexible when the day comes that ushers in a paradigm shift from what we old ICE guys know as the collector car hobby today to welcome a different generation that grows up around the electric vehicle. Where there's a gathering of car enthusiasts there will likely be a club...

 

Click the link below and scroll down just a bit to read the Woody Boater article on the Chris Craft fiberglass Sea Skiff I restored and sold to Brian Gagnon...

 

#12 Makes A Statement In Skaneateles NY | Classic Boats / Woody Boater

 

 

Edited by Str8-8-Dave (see edit history)
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maok 5,000+ Points

maok

Posted
Posted
On 10/13/2021 at 9:37 AM, trimacar said:

I say that people who think electric cars is the “solution” can’t see behind the wall.

 

Yes, nice clean electric, just plug it into the wall socket.

 

But, that power has to come from some generating facility.  Coal, gas, nuclear, hydroelectric.  Sure, solar and windmills, but those two are insignificant in the overall power production. Both of those have operating costs and depreciation/ life of asset/ payback that are not favorable.

 

In the end, the use of electric vehicles doesn’t   help the environment near as much as some would preach to you….

If one plugs their EV into the wall and the power comes from the dirtiest and oldest coal powered generator, the power supplied from the coal burnt would still be less polluting than any gas/petrol power car. Because an ICE is very inefficient, ie only 25% (at best) of the energy content is used to move the car forward.

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nick8086 25,000+ Points

nick8086

Posted
Posted (edited)

History repeats it self.. A few years ago solar panels would do the thing for us.. Gov spent tax dollars to funding it.. Just to have big a failure..

 

Gov is not good to tell you what to do..

 

I like free markets..

 

I sold a kaiser that got 36 mpg.. Now I wish I kept it..

 

That is more MPG than any of my cars I have today..  It shocks me we had a car at 35 mpg in the 50;s..

mpg36.JPG

Edited by nick8086 (see edit history)
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trimacar 25,000+ Points

trimacar

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7 hours ago, maok said:

If one plugs their EV into the wall and the power comes from the dirtiest and oldest coal powered generator, the power supplied from the coal burnt would still be less polluting than any gas/petrol power car. Because an ICE is very inefficient, ie only 25% (at best) of the energy content is used to move the car forward.

Not quite the case, coal fired power plants around the world average 33% efficiency, and most modern ICE cars are at or above that number.   The point is that pollution still occurs either way, unless it’s a “clean” energy source.    Even some clean power can do damage to the environment, windmills need a lot of oil and kill tens of thousands of birds, for example.

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alsancle 25,000+ Points

alsancle

Posted
Posted
On 8/10/2021 at 6:44 AM, 58L-Y8 said:

No.  Collector cars are such a tiny percentage of the total number of ICE vehicles is use worldwide, their emissions are a drop-in-the-bucket.  Conversion to electric would make zero difference overall.   Our fascinations are about preserving a small piece of history as it was in its time.  Modifications affective obliterates and negates that.

 

Anybody on here that suggests converting a collector car to electric should be permanently banned.    I'm not kidding.

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Bhigdog 25,000+ Points

Bhigdog

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NYT'S reports that the average wind speed in Europe has slowed by about 15% the last year requiring starting up coal and gas generation plants to fill the shortfall of wind energy. It also reports Europe has experienced a 5 fold increase in the cost of energy as they move to "green" energy......... Not that I believe everything the Times prints...........Bob

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Anybody on here that suggests converting a collector car to electric should be permanently banned.    I'm not kidding.

 

Now Ed, what if one of your best  " customers " requested you to oversee the conversion of a lowly , orphan Model J chassis to electric ? In this crazy modern world almost anything is possible. Valuable ,vintage P cars are somewhat regularly converted. I actually have a bit of a soft spot for 356's despite the engine being the wrong way around. { why could they have not used the 550 layout on all the road cars as well ? } But the public somehow seems to know what it wants , despite some of us knowing better. 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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1937hd45 25,000+ Points

1937hd45

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Posted
2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Anybody on here that suggests converting a collector car to electric should be permanently banned.    I'm not kidding.

 

I'm happy to admit I wasn't blessed with understanding electricity, and can't rewire a car. How many others can freely admit that, if you can't rewire a car you are going to pull a motor out of a Tesla and install it in an AACA accepted vehicle?

 

Bob 

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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For me rewiring a pre 1990 car is reasonably straightforward. I have done it several times over the years. But have you ever had a good look at all the mass of electronics that are in a Tesla ? The electrical components on a Tesla are to me mind blowing. Both propulsion and control. Might as well be wiring up a Military jet fighter.

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1937hd45 25,000+ Points

1937hd45

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52 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

For me rewiring a pre 1990 car is reasonably straightforward. I have done it several times over the years. But have you ever had a good look at all the mass of electronics that are in a Tesla ? The electrical components on a Tesla are to me mind blowing. Both propulsion and control. Might as well be wiring up a Military jet fighter.

 

No need to ever look inside a Tesla, butt ugly on the outside. 

 

Bob 

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Peter Gariepy 25,000+ Points

Peter Gariepy

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4 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Anybody on here that suggests converting a collector car to electric should be permanently banned.    I'm not kidding.

 

A bit harsh don't you think? Where would that stop?  How about 6 to 12 volt conversion?  Or maybe painting a car a non-stock color?  Or god forbid, updating the ICE to something more reliable?   I'd guess we'd have to ban half the users here, probably more.

 

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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Peter , I would whole heartedly endorse EV's if they had a clear and significant " best for the planet and therefore mankind " advantage. But as I understand the current state of technology they are at best only slightly better than an IC vehicle in an overall way of looking at things. { full spectrum of vehicles, full spectrum of power sources }

  And almost always a big up front cost disadvantage. Most of us in the real world are not driving $50,000.00 and up vehicles. I realize those in the AACA are in many cases quite wealthy people and drive some pretty high end daily drivers. But to a big chunk of people in North America a $20,000.00 vehicle is a major investment. That's not going to buy very much of an EV from what I have seen. I know my status as a Canadian taints my point of view. The land of high prices and mediocre incomes, but there are about 38 Million of us up here in the frozen North. Not exactly a tiny market. 

 Canada needs $15,000.00 cars that can travel long distances in at times very cold weather. My little Hyundai Accent is a great fit to that. Cost me $10,000.00 as a less than year old trade in with same as new warranty and financing as it was so new and low mile. 

 A $56,000 base price, cheapest Tesla , not so much. If you can even find one for sale at that " bargain " price. 

If you are quite wealthy and want to feel green , go for the EV. But to many of us the whole subject appears to be more about marketing, larger profits  and greenwashing.

 Cheapest EV's in the Canadian market are all in the low to mid 40 G range. Several small IC cars available in the $10- 15 G's range. 

 That's a huge price difference to many households. Triple the up front cost in many cases. The U.S, market may be different, but right next door in Canada EV's make no sense except to the wealthy. 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Peter Gariepy 25,000+ Points

Peter Gariepy

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9 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Peter , I would whole heartedly endorse EV's if they had a clear and significant " best for the planet and therefore mankind " advantage. But as I understand the current state of technology they are at best only slightly better than an IC vehicle in an overall way of looking at things. { full spectrum of vehicles, full spectrum of power sources }

  And almost always a big up front cost disadvantage. Most of us in the real world are not driving $50,000.00 and up vehicles. I realize those in the AACA are in many cases quite wealthy people and drive some pretty high end daily drivers. But to a big chunk of people in North America a $20,000.00 vehicle is a major investment. That's not going to buy very much of an EV from what I have seen. I know my status as a Canadian taints my point of view. The land of high prices and mediocre incomes, but there are about 38 Million of us up here in the frozen North. Not exactly a tiny market. 

 Canada needs $15,000.00 cars that can travel long distances in at times very cold weather. My little Hyundai Accent is a great fit to that. Cost me $10,000.00 as a less than year old trade in with same as new warranty and financing as it was so new and low mile. 

 A $56,000 base price, cheapest Tesla , not so much. If you can even find one for sale at that " bargain " price. 

If you are quite wealthy and want to feel green , go for the EV. But to many of us the whole subject appears to be more about marketing, larger profits  and greenwashing.

 

I'm not clear on if EVs have a significant advantage over ICE related to planet/mankind.  Depends on who you ask. I lean towards EVs have the advantage.

 

The avg selling price of a new car in the USA is $40,000USD.  source  The base price in the USA for a Tesla Model 3 is $37,000USD.  A Nissan Leaf is $28,000USD> So, well within range.  

 

Virtually ever auto manufacturer in the world has long range goals to convert their fleets to EV. They've already put their money where their mouths are with multi-billion dollar investments in EV technology.  Countries are already mandating the phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles.  

 

The move to switch new cars from ICE to EV is inevitable. The EV train is barreling down the track, and a few hobbyists on a remote discussion forum will not slow it down in the least.

 

  • Super car enthusiasts are already making the switch to EV.  source
  • Backyard mechanics wanting to win street races are making the switch.  A turn key Tesla blows the doors off virtually every ICE you can build.
  • Luxury car enthusiasts are quickly gravitating to EV.  Cadillac, Lexus, Tesla, and others are already selling them by the 100,000s a year.  source
  • The average Joe who just wants to get from point A to point B and could care less about EV vs ICE. They just want a car they can afford with the features they want.  Auto manufacturers know this and are gearing up for it, see above.

 

There are already electric cars eligible for AACA judging, and not just the early Bakers, etc.  Citicar from the 1970s is one. GM EV1 from 1996-1999 is another.   The first Toyota Prius will be eligible in 7 years.

 

So the question is, how will it effect the antique automobile hobby?  Time will tell.

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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All I can say is from a Canadian point of view. A world away from Tucson. When I was a young school boy we sometimes had school canceled because they could not get the front end loader started to dig out the doors to the school. Serious { 10 foot high }  snow drifts were a regular thing.  Didn't matter how many block and battery heaters it was plugged in to , just not going to start at - 40 and wind chill on top.  Seriously !!  Unless you have not lived in the Midwest or North of the 49 th. you won't understand.

 

Watch a few episodes of " Highway through Hell " I live about 1 1/2 hours from where it is filmed. Al Quiring is one of my neighbors. He has towed a few vehicles home for me. Great guy, vintage truck owner.

 

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Peter Gariepy 25,000+ Points

Peter Gariepy

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Posted
11 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

All I can say is from a Canadian point of view. A world away from Tucson. When I was a young school boy we sometimes had school canceled because they could not get the front end loader started to dig out the doors to the school. Serious { 10 foot high }  snow drifts were a regular thing.  Didn't matter how many block and battery heaters it was plugged in to , just not going to start at - 40 and wind chill on top.  Seriously !!  Unless you have lived in the Midwest or North of the 49 th. you won't understand.

 

Grew up in Detroit.
I'm a 3nd generation American. My grandparents were all Canadian. Spend lots of time in Toronto.  (Gariepy is a good French-Canadian name) :)
I made good money as a kid shoveling snow.

I still fondly remember snow days.

 

EVs may not be ideal for cold weather.  Or maybe the manufacturers adapt.  Google has some other interesting search results on the subject.

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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Great to hear you had the sense to head South. I would have years ago myself If I could have convinced my wife. I am the opposite , great grandparents from Ohio, moved to Canada in about 1910. I often ponder how things would have turned out if they hadn't.

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Rivguy 2,500+ Points

Rivguy

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Posted

I think that a bigger concern, especially in a state like California, would be restrictions on operating current vintage ICE powered vehicles. I can see a day when every vehicle older than a certain cutoff year would be restricted to historical vehicle registration with strict mileage limits. Perhaps we would have to have a GPS tracker placed in the car to record mileage. Now few of us drive a pre 1950s car as daily transportation. and the current historical vehicle restriction still allow a lot of use. Besides lots of us here are already retired and don't engage in daily commuting. The problem will develop for cars up to the '75 smog cut off. I think that California residents are going to see some movement in this direction.

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Peter Gariepy 25,000+ Points

Peter Gariepy

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28 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

I think that a bigger concern, especially in a state like California, would be restrictions on operating current vintage ICE powered vehicles. I can see a day when every vehicle older than a certain cutoff year would be restricted to historical vehicle registration with strict mileage limits. Perhaps we would have to have a GPS tracker placed in the car to record mileage. Now few of us drive a pre 1950s car as daily transportation. and the current historical vehicle restriction still allow a lot of use. Besides lots of us here are already retired and don't engage in daily commuting. The problem will develop for cars up to the '75 smog cut off. I think that California residents are going to see some movement in this direction.

 

We as a hobby, but also as a nation, simply need to be sure legislation doesn't effect the hobby, or overly impact the lives of those who chose to drive their older cars.

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DFeeney 10,000+ Points

DFeeney

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Posted

Hello My Friends, Attached is my latest project. It is about finished and scheduled for the upholstery shop during the coming Winter. It was a fun, low cost project.  I wanted to build a car that looked like one of the 1907 Vanderbuilt racers. The frame is 1913 Cadillac, radiator shell 1916  Studebaker, Hood 1924 Hudson , Cowl 1928 Plymouth. All the sheet metal was reformed to fit.  It is powered by a 32 VT golf cart axle. It is the ideal small town parade car. RH steering, dual chain drive, hydraulic brakes, won't over heat, no clutch and can creep along.  (top speed about 20 MPH). Last 4th of July my 17 yr old grand daughter drove me in our town parade.  It confused a lot of on lookers as a teenage girl was driving and it made no noise.  Life is Good,  Don Feeney in central Ohio.

IMG_1522.JPG

IMG_1537.JPG

IMG_1600.JPG

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Peter Gariepy 25,000+ Points

Peter Gariepy

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Posted
23 hours ago, DFeeney said:

Hello My Friends, Attached is my latest project. It is about finished and scheduled for the upholstery shop during the coming Winter. It was a fun, low cost project.  I wanted to build a car that looked like one of the 1907 Vanderbuilt racers. The frame is 1913 Cadillac, radiator shell 1916  Studebaker, Hood 1924 Hudson , Cowl 1928 Plymouth. All the sheet metal was reformed to fit.  It is powered by a 32 VT golf cart axle. It is the ideal small town parade car. RH steering, dual chain drive, hydraulic brakes, won't over heat, no clutch and can creep along.  (top speed about 20 MPH). Last 4th of July my 17 yr old grand daughter drove me in our town parade.  It confused a lot of on lookers as a teenage girl was driving and it made no noise.  Life is Good,  Don Feeney in central Ohio.

 

 

 

So much fun to see!  Thanks for sharing!

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jim43 2,500+ Points

jim43

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Posted

Ca 1910 International Harvester electric. An affordable engine never came along so my friend Warren put an old golf cart running gear in it. Performance is about like one would expect from a farm truck of the period, but very quiet. Three deep cycle 12 V batteries in the box (radiator) in front of the front seat. It is used on the farm by the way and is dependable. Not much cost either, and could certainly be re-converted to a gas engine easily.

    I am sure this is not the only car that has languished for decades for want of inner workings. Over 50 years for this one.  Jim43DSCN1372.jpeg.c3e6b5d47f2bd35992e3575d66f42943.jpegDSCN1371.jpeg.e872c9bf9cd37673c7e5d230337b92c5.jpegDSCN1368.jpeg.04102a37dc2366984acc423379fcd2eb.jpeg

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MarkV 10,000+ Points

MarkV

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Posted
On 8/12/2021 at 1:09 PM, J.H.Boland said:

There's a guy north of Toronto that installed electrics in a nicely restored 1918 490 Chevy. He's been trying to sell it for ages for $32,000 CDN ! To see it, go to Kijiji, item # 1573582812. Seems like a waste to me. It's likely a lot faster, but you still need to stop it !

1918 490 Chevrolet electric.webp

I’ve got a 1921 490! It only goes about 25 mph on a good day so this golf cart engine is probably enough to haul it 

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wws944 10,000+ Points

wws944

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12 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Some of the findings of this report surprised me. Just what are EV's better at if these findings are accurate ?https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/EVtransition_FuelingCostStudy_10-21-21.pdf

 

 

 

 

Some very questionable and wrong numbers in that report.  Looking at their client list on page 34, it is no surprise.

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Bleach 25,000+ Points

Bleach

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

How do you recon them there gas pump thingys work?

I keep extra fuel at home and I have more than one car to siphon fuel from if the situation gets more serious. I also have a diesel that gives me more than a 600 mile range.

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Matt Harwood 25,000+ Points

Matt Harwood

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Posted
Just now, Bleach said:

I keep extra fuel at home and I have more than one car to siphon fuel from if the situation gets more serious. I also have a diesel that gives me more than a 600 mile range.

 

Where do you live that you might have to flee more than 600 miles? If our electric car's 300 mile range isn't enough to save our asses from whatever disaster is happening, I think finding more electricity will be the least of our worries.

 

Sounds like you have a solution in search of a problem.

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