Is it possible to own a classic car without having a newer secondary car?

[KevinVal]

You have to have any car you drive insured, and most regular insurance companies won't handle cars pre-1981/1982 (maybe expect for Geico), and even the classic insurance companies mandate that you have another car to use...same goes for anyone in your household. Am I then to assume no one can own like a 60s/70s car without owning a second car?

Edited August 24, 2019 by KevinVal (see edit history)

[mercer09]

sure you can- you will just have to pay a top premium for your insurance. no 50. a year and your covered from the classic insurers.

[joe_padavano]

The newest car I own is 35 years old and most are from the 1960s. Just don't expect to get full value collision insurance for a daily driver - at least not at a reasonable cost. You obviously can't use an antique registration for a daily driver either, at least not legally. The biggest problem I have is availability of repair parts. Local auto parts stores rarely stock parts for cars more than 20 years old or so these days, so if you must have your old car to get to work the next day, either have parts on your shelf or have something else you can drive while you wait for the repair parts to show up. This is why I have multiple old cars.

[Matt Harwood]

Classic car insurance is cheap because they know you aren't driving your car every day in traffic and weather. It's not really fair to say you're being punished for driving your old car every day by having to pay more for insurance--you're exposing your car to far more risk than most collector cars. I know that State Farm, Allstate, and Geico all have collector car programs, but again, it might be problematic to use them if it's a daily driver. It's easy to understand their unwillingness to underwrite an old car as a daily driver--if you have a wreck it will be more difficult to source parts for the repairs and the injuries any occupants sustain may very well be significantly more serious. Older cars have diminished capabilities compared to regular cars and commuting daily in traffic increases your risks exponentially. It's a numbers thing, not personal against old cars. But I would expect that their statistics tell them that old cars driven regularly have more claims that are more expensive, therefore they don't want to do it. Would you?

 

Alternative: buy a cheap modern beater. You can pick up a 6-year-old Hyundai for $1500. Not exactly free, but there you go--modern daily driver. Just don't be surprised when your collector car insurance company gives you hard way to go for a wreck during rush hour on a Wednesday and find that you haven't driven the Hyundai to work in months.

 

When there's a claim to be paid, nobody sniffs out the truth better than an insurance company.

[joe_padavano]

18 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 But I would expect that their statistics tell them that old cars driven regularly have more claims that are more expensive, therefore they don't want to do it. Would you?

 

The real issue isn't more claims, it's the fact that with so few older cars on the road, the insurance company can't develop an accurate actuarial database to predict loss rate. Compound this with the fact that in some cases repair parts are unobtanium and it's obvious why insurance companies don't want to provide collision insurance on older or non-mainstream cars. This is all about profits, and insurance companies make their profits by precisely predicting accident rate and associated claim costs for a given car, use type, and class of driver. If there isn't enough of a sample size to predict claim rate or an accurate ability to predict repair costs, there is increased financial risk for the insurance company, and that risk gets passed on in the form of higher premiums.

 

As Matt correctly points out, for an occasionally driven classic car, classic car insurance is inexpensive because the exposure to a potential accident is very small and the insurance companies are willing to take the risk that you won't have a claim if you only drive the car less than their annual limits, and only on weekends. That same car driven daily and in bumper-to-bumper commuting traffic stands a much higher likelihood of generating a claim.

Edited August 24, 2019 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

Often agents will write such cars to get the business, having no idea how the claim will actually work.  Even if a person gets such coverage thinking they can do what they want, that’s often not the case.  Bottom line, the rates on old cars are low because, as the rate indicates, you aren’t supposed to drive them like new ones.

[John_Mereness]

I remember all the weekends dad and I worked on English cars to get them running over the weekend, so that he had a dependable car back again on Monday.  And I remember him cussing and swearing at  garandparent's Mercury's and Lincoln's (and dad never touched them - the dealer came out to their house and got them and returned them), plus all the friends we helped with their cars on weekends to get a dependable car back on Monday.   My point being that the first really dependable car we ever had was a 1972 Oldsmobile, so to answer the question of an earlier car in daily use the answer would be that it just depends on your driving habits, but it will be a challenge.  Also, I am thinking with most insurance companies you would require a "modern car" as a collector car as a "single" vehicle I doubt would get you coverage. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[R Walling]

 Does your primary car have to have collision in order to have classic insurance?

 

 I am wondering if the liability from the classic is paid by your primary insurer and then the "extra" is paid by your classic policy?

[Paul Dobbin]

Roger.  The requirement is Liability Ins on your daily driver.  Two different policies and your liability coverage depends on the car driven.

[60FlatTop]

Driving a collector car for daily transportation takes the specialness out of having an old car like that. I drive my old cars more than some, but it is an event each time I take one out. A little pomp and cercumstance around some things you do in life can have benefits that just make you feel good. I wouldn't want a ride in my old car to be as natural as throwing on an old flannel shirt. I prefer the ride to be something where I look down and think "maybe I'll get my better watch, change my shoes, put on a different shirt".

 

In a couple of hours I am not going to tell my wife "Get in the truck. We are going to lunch". I will announce that I am going out to the garage and get the white Buick out. Attire will be summer white.

Edited August 24, 2019 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

There are 3 interrelated issues to this seemingly innocent question. (1) In my jurisdiction you can drive and have a normal license on any car you want as long as it will pass motor vehicle inspection (MVI). (2) If you want to license it as an antique and take advantage of the inexpensive plate ($20 versus $100 per year) it need only be certified as "roadworthy" by a licensed mechanic, must be a minimum 30 years old, and be for occasional use, and you need a 2nd licensed car. (3) Finally for insurance, my regular insurance company (not my Haggerty Insurance on my antique cars) will only provide collision coverage on a car older than 20 years if you provide them with an appraisal and pay a higher premium. Hopefully this helps. 

[padgett]

Was never a problem since I always had a newer family car. Not having a family now I have a newer ('12) tow car and my '01 SLK becomes eligible for collector insurance in October.

 

Living in Florida I have special rules: all must be garaged, all must be safe to drive in a monsoon, all must have AC. Did go for a while when my '88 Reatta was my only car and it never let me down. Now am back to six which is the number of garage spaces with doors. My next car will probably be an XLR ('04-'09) so not really an antique collector though some cars have become antiques while I have had them.

 

For me the major difference is the stated value on my collector insurance - if on a major company any car from the last century is probably depreciated out and lacks the safety equipment in newer cars

[John_S_in_Penna]

One point that hasn't been raised yet is:

 

We are here to PRESERVE antique cars.

If someone uses an antique as his daily driver,

day in and day out, in all sorts of bad weather,

the car will deteriorate.  It will depreciate, taking

away his investment and gradually becoming

less and less attractive and appealing.  It can rust.

And isn't keeping a beautiful car one of the reasons

why we buy the old ones, after all?

[JACK M]

56 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

One point that hasn't been raised yet is:

 

We are here to PRESERVE antique cars.

If someone uses an antique as his daily driver,

day in and day out, in all sorts of bad weather,

the car will deteriorate.  It will depreciate, taking

away his investment and gradually becoming

less and less attractive and appealing.  It can rust.

And isn't keeping a beautiful car one of the reasons

why we buy the old ones, after all?

 

A valid point,

But If one buys a $30000 New car and a $30000 old car at the same time no matter how much you drive either, the new one wont ever be worth what you paid for it but the old one might.

Weather permitting, my old cars become daily drivers. My late model stuff don't get may miles in the nice weather.

Edited August 24, 2019 by JACK M (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

When I write that an outing in an old car should be an event with a bit of pomp and circumstance, I meant bring on the band!

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

I am looking to sell  two cars, the 47 Hudson and the 34. I will purchase a 50's car and turn it into a daily driver. I have no problem driving one as a daily driver. I enjoy driving a vintage car, fogging windshield, wind noise from doors not sealing, vacuum wipers that kind of work, pumping the gas pedal, because all of the gas drains out of the carb sitting over night, headlights get brighter when you give it gas, a rattle noise that you can never find, tube radio that worked one time after you had it rebuilt, great smelling old interior, that is really just the smell of mold spores, play in the steering, closing the doors twice, first time it does not latch, second time you slam it. And having to double foot the pedals, because you have to give it a little more gas when you stop to keep idle up. All fun stuff, it is just a car. If your goal is to promote your hobby/trade/industry. The best thing you can do is drive your old cars. That is how you pull in more people.

[vermontboy]

I drove a Model "A" as an only car for a couple of years when in college (69 to 71). Weekend trips from Utica to Rochester and back fall, winter and spring almost every weekend. Did stuff break, sure. Did it ever not make it - no. Did it ever need a tow - no.

If you keep the daily driver simple - no problem. If you buy a fully optioned full sized vehicle with an unknown maintenance record you are in different territory.

[mike6024]

11 hours ago, KevinVal said:

and most regular insurance companies won't handle cars pre-1981/1982

 

Is that true? I have never had anything but liability coverage anyway.

 

I insure my 2002 Toyota with Farmers (21st Century) and could add my 1967 Alfa for a little over $10/month extra. And declared annual mileage would be 8,000 for the Toyota and 2,000 for the Alfa which is the minimum. It is up to $45/month for liability on the Toyota now.

 

But if I insure the Alfa with Hagerty paying by the year it is even cheaper, and I get more than just liability.

 

So I don't think what you said is true, that regular insurers do not want pre-1980 vehicles.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

One point that hasn't been raised yet is:

 

We are here to PRESERVE antique cars.

If someone uses an antique as his daily driver,

day in and day out, in all sorts of bad weather,

the car will deteriorate.  It will depreciate, taking

away his investment and gradually becoming

less and less attractive and appealing.  It can rust.

And isn't keeping a beautiful car one of the reasons

why we buy the old ones, after all?

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The worst thing you can do to a car is to NOT drive it. At that point it becomes a piece of art, and frankly, if I can't drive a car, there is no reason to own it. I restored it once, I can restore it again. Nothing I own is low mileage, all original, and in need of "preservation". Drive the wheels off of them. Life's too short to daily drive a soulless transportation appliance as your daily driver.

[edinmass]

I agree with Joe.......drive the dam thing. Restore it again in twenty years if you have to. The only special consideration we give to our cars is parking area, and going easy on the upholstery. Otherwise, we just drive them.........100 points or not, and most are. The first few years we go very easy till we are done with the show circuit, then it’s off to the races. Respect them.........but drive them. 

[CHuDWah]

I had a daily driver pre-WWII coupe with regular license and insured by State Farm.  It was a hot rod so the double whammy in regard to insurance.  I had full coverage with maximum limits.  This was 5 years ago but premium was less than $200 annual - inexpensive even back then.  It was agreed value but no driving limits other than 7500 annual miles.  That's the minimum mileage limit State Farm writes and was enough for me.  But it was just a premium discount - could have had more mileage for more money.  I did have modern rides insured with State Farm but that was not required by the policy on the coupe.

Edited August 24, 2019 by CHuDWah (see edit history)

[KevinVal]

4 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

One point that hasn't been raised yet is:

 

We are here to PRESERVE antique cars.

If someone uses an antique as his daily driver,

day in and day out, in all sorts of bad weather,

the car will deteriorate.  It will depreciate, taking

away his investment and gradually becoming

less and less attractive and appealing.  It can rust.

And isn't keeping a beautiful car one of the reasons

why we buy the old ones, after all?

 

Here's the thing...I'm working from home for the time being and I didn't say I'd use an old car for a daily driver. Maybe once a week. But if I had the old classic, it seems a waste of money to be forced to own a newer car as well (just because insurance demands it). 

Edited August 24, 2019 by KevinVal (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

43 minutes ago, KevinVal said:

 

Here's the thing...I'm working from home for the time being and I didn't say I'd use an old car for a daily driver. Maybe once a week. But if I had the old classic, it seems a waste of money to be forced to own a newer car as well (just because insurance demands it). 

 

Insurance only "demands" it if you are trying to get classic car insurance with use restrictions and deeply discounted rates. If you pay regular rates there is no such demand.

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

The worst thing you can do to a car is to NOT drive it.  At that point it becomes a piece of art, and frankly, if I can't drive a car, there is no reason to own it. 

 

Agreed, Joe.  I'd never advocate NOT driving a car at all.

But I thought he meant every day, in summer and winter,

so a nice 1960's or 1970's car would turn into a rusty #4

car by the time he was done--ruining something nice

that had managed, up till that time, to survive for 50 years

in pristine condition.

 

I love to drive my cars and don't even own a trailer!

Even my 1916 car (pictured in the avatar) I've driven

and enjoyed weekly at times.

[60FlatTop]

2 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

The worst thing you can do to a car is to NOT drive it.

 

Count up all the round parts in a car. If it was supposed to sit around those parts would be flat on the bottom.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Agreed, Joe.  I'd never advocate NOT driving a car at all.

But I thought he meant every day, in summer and winter,

so a nice 1960's or 1970's car would turn into a rusty #4

car by the time he was done--ruining something nice

that had managed, up till that time, to survive for 50 years

in pristine condition.

 

Fair enough. I have an winter beater for that. Of course, for all we know, the OP may live in Phoenix. 😁

[39BuickEight]

There are also complex computer algorithms for reliability and safety that compute when a vin is entered, for rating purposes.  These programs simply don’t work leaving much of the underwriting to an actual human, which is not something many companies are capable of doing because nobody there knows old cars.

Edited August 24, 2019 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Locally I know two people who only own Corvairs.  Drive them daily. All year long. There is no other car they own. One is USAA insured, the other I do not know. No, AFAIK neither has collision coverage, just liability. 

 

Perfectly capable of keeping up with traffic and stopping in traffic. And in this area we HAVE traffic!😁

 

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

As I have mentioned before i have my two  Plymouths insured with my reg Insurance co. Had to have them appraised once. Do have to have a car for every driver in the household(no prob there) . No mileage restrictions or any limitations on how often or where I can drive them.  Cost is more than Antiques insurance by a small amount but worth it to me.  And max payout is limited to the Appraisal amount.  I could have them reappraised but really the current amount is just a little more than i have in each one so...

[JACK M]

12 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

And max payout is limited to the Appraisal amount.

I would be wary of that.

The appraiser that is looking at a pay out has different eyes than the appraiser that is on the insurance selling side.

[victorialynn2]

55 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I would be wary of that.

The appraiser that is looking at a pay out has different eyes than the appraiser that is on the insurance selling side.

Agree, I’ve heard horror stories about undervalued claim amounts where the cars can not be fixed for the amount the claim adjuster is willing to pay out. This is presumably because antiques are not their expertise. Stated value without Haggerty, JC Taylor, etc. I have not heard complaints about. 

[victorialynn2]

On 8/24/2019 at 9:09 AM, JACK M said:

 

A valid point,

But If one buys a $30000 New car and a $30000 old car at the same time no matter how much you drive either, the new one wont ever be worth what you paid for it but the old one might.

Weather permitting, my old cars become daily drivers. My late model stuff don't get may miles in the nice weather.

I believe you mean bad weather. 

 

You are like like my dad was, if you have enough of ‘em, don't really get many miles. Especially when they don’t come out in bad weather. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Just now, victorialynn2 said:

My late model stuff don't get may miles in the nice weather.

 

1 minute ago, victorialynn2 said:

Weather permitting, my old cars become daily drivers

 

[JamesR]

I have an acquaintance whose business came upon such hard times that he had to sell his daily driver (and most of his vintage cars) and instead drive his unrestored late '50's/early '60's VW bus all the time. He couldn't bring himself to sell his last remaining vintage VW, which I totally understand.

 

OTOH, if I could avoid it, I wouldn't ever use a nice condition 40+ year old vehicle as a daily driver (unless it was a working vehicle, e.g. dump truck or bus, etc.) Not too long ago I sold a previous daily driver of mine - a '94 S-10 Chevy - for $550. I sold it to make room for the kids' cars at our house. It had 150k miles on it, a bit of rust, and had been in a couple of minor collisions, but it always started and ran and didn't break very often. Four cylinder, so it got decent mileage, too. Who can't afford $550 for a daily driver? Sure, I looked like a low-rent driving it, but I look like a low-rent anyway.

[plymouthcranbrook]

10 hours ago, JACK M said:

I would be wary of that.

The appraiser that is looking at a pay out has different eyes than the appraiser that is on the insurance selling side.

Well, I have had this company insuring my cars(and home) since 1974.  Although I have made few claims all that I made both auto and home were handled quickly, fairly and efficiently.  The way it was explained to me is that the appraised value is the max that they will pay out similar to agreed value.  If the damage goes over that is all I get.  I would be surprised if they started playing games after 46 years but I suppose they might. If so, that is what Lawyers are for. And yes I know that they have many more than I could ever afford.   

[Guest]

For 50 of the 59 years that my Pontiac was my daily driver it was my only car.  During the other nine years my other cars were; 26, 27, 28, 29 , 31 Pontiac, 26 Studebaker and 2 1953 Buicks. Always carried regular insurance on all of them.  I never had an insurance problem driving anywhere in the west half of North America.  I was involved in two accidents, one my fault.

[cahartley]

On 8/24/2019 at 2:46 PM, KevinVal said:

 

Here's the thing...I'm working from home for the time being and I didn't say I'd use an old car for a daily driver. Maybe once a week. But if I had the old classic, it seems a waste of money to be forced to own a newer car as well (just because insurance demands it). 

 

It's not only insurance.

In Wisconsin we can't GET antique/collector/hobbyist /whatever plates unless we a own a regularly licensed vehicle.

 

By the way.......I was on the phone insuring a car with Hagerty and the lady asked me if I do car shows.

I told her "I don't do shows. Everywhere I go is a show".......she laughed....... 😊

[DAVES89]

5 hours ago, cahartley said:

 

It's not only insurance.

In Wisconsin we can't GET antique/collector/hobbyist /whatever plates unless we a own a regularly licensed vehicle.

 

By the way.......I was on the phone insuring a car with Hagerty and the lady asked me if I do car shows.

I told her "I don't do shows. Everywhere I go is a show".......she laughed....... 😊

 

And Wisconsin specialty plates are only 11 month plates. If driving in February you must buy temporary plates.

[padgett]

"I resemble that remark". Have always had "interesting" cars, just some happen to be antiques. Florida has antique pates but I do not care for them. Over 30 years old the plates are cheaper.

As to driving my sig says it all: each of my cars is next to a garage door. No shuffling or lifts involved.

 

If you just have one car, or it sits out, expect to pay regular car insurance rates (Geico or USAA have no problem) since the risk is the same as any normal car. Special collector insurance are for cars that are not driven much and are protected from the slings and arrows when not being driven. Right now there are 2 "regular" and 4 "collector" cars here. Each is different and has a different purpose. I prefer small two seaters and like retractables.

 

So is possible that you could have a collectible as an only car, just do not expect collector insurance to be available.

 

[joe_padavano]

8 hours ago, cahartley said:

 

It's not only insurance.

In Wisconsin we can't GET antique/collector/hobbyist /whatever plates unless we a own a regularly licensed vehicle.

 

This isn't difficult to understand. Specialty registration and specialty insurance are lower cost because they have usage restrictions. Obviously the DMV and insurance companies want to preclude people from cheating by using an antique registration and insurance to save money (and avoid annual inspections) for a daily driven car. This is why you need to also own a regularly licensed vehicle to qualify. We should all support that.

 

There is nothing that prevents you from getting a regular registration and regular insurance (at regular cost) for an older car that is used frequently. I've done this on my 67 Delta 88, for example. You don't need to own any other vehicles in that situation.