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New trimmer in the works


Joe in Canada

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I bought a Singer 111W155 industrial machine and now my friends are waiting  to see how long it takes me to stich up my fingers. Now I was already thinking of that and was wondering if anyone has slowed up these fast machines and how you did it. I was thinking of putting on a larger pulley on the motor to see if that makes a difference. Any other tips out there as I am in a totally new field.

 

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More Practice! I assume this has a clutch motor. Running one of these is an acquired skill, and it takes a while.

 

Clutch motors come in either 1/3 or 1/2 horsepower, and in my opinion that makes no real difference for upholstery or auto trim work. 1/2 horsepower is the common standard on a walking foot machine.

 

They also come in 1725 RPM and 3450 RPM (assuming you live in the land of 60 HZ electricity).

 

Always get 1725. It is a little easier to control, and the situations where you would want to go full speed with a 3450 RPM motor are very few. You may never even encounter it. Some machines can't even do it.

 

I think any change you get from a pulley is going to be minimal fine tuning. You would have to calculate it out and see how much could be gained. I have never heard of anyone in an upholstery or trim shop bothering to do this on a machine that is already set up and running.

 

There are "servo motors" available now that allow just about anyone to sit down at the machine and effectively control the speed. That might be a possibility.

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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Pedal all the way back is a brake. As you tip it forward slightly it should be in neutral and you should be able to turn the balance wheel easliy. You can try this with the motor off.

 

The clutch motor has a couple of adjustments. I can't remember what they do anymore. Too long ago. The Internet probably knows....  It may be possible to make it a little better, but clutch motors are just not controllable until you have been using one for a while. Stitch.... Stitch... BRAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!! is just what happens when you are a beginner.

 

Do this: Make a nice long scrap, long enough to go for a foot or two if it runs away. Put it in the machine, start the stitch by hand with the balance wheel. Move the pedal forward very slowly and listen. Listen for fssshhhhhhhhhhhh.... just hold it there for a second... fshhhhhhhhhhhhh.... maybe the balance wheel starts to move a little and make a stitch. Back off slightly. fshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... fshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... Try to make one stitch at a time. Keep your fingers back.

 

Ok, it's probably gonna run away. Keep trying. You can go back and forth on that long scrap many times. More than anything listen to the motor. If you can get it to slip at all, you will get at least a partial second of that fssssssssshhhh noise, and maybe hear the motor slow a little. Practice finding that magic spot. Practice backing off ever so slightly when the first stitch goes through.

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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I had the same problem ,it ran too fast for me to control. I ended up using a piece of scrap flat stock to extend the arm that attaches to the pedal, that made it much more controllable. I found directions how through You Tube.

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Bloo is correct, except for his statement about "no one"!

 

My current Pfaff was bought at Keystone in Philadelphia.

 

The first thing I did was ask them to put the smallest pulley they could find on the motor, to slow down the machine.

 

You also need to make sure the clutch is in good condition and adjusted correctly.  You have to be able to slip it, which is a learned foot action.  I've seen machines that had a clutch like a toggle switch, either full on or full off.

 

Many industrial machines were never made for fine detail work, they were sewing tarps and such where speed was immaterial (so to speak!), the faster the better to get production out the door.  

 

The other option, and not very expensive, is to go with a new servo motor.  Most people who use them love them, I'm just so used to being able to control my stitching the old way that I won't switch.

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I little old lady doing piece work will jam that machine right up and complain it is too slow.

 

Once upon a time I was a sewing machine mechanic at the Superba Cravat tie factory.

image.png.1b3f54f776de257b2f52e09e447b5faa.png

 

The machines were activated by a chain attached to a foot treadle. A chain broke one day and I fixed it but left out a couple of links. That brought the treadle closer to the lady's foot and it felt like it went faster to her. The other workers demanded I "speed up" their machines too. I came in after hours and shortened all the chains by about 3 links. They loved me.

 

Start learning with a stiff pedal.

Bernie

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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 I managed several Singer retail stores in the seventies and usually had almost no contact with industrial machines. On the few occasions that I did, I learned very quickly that there were capable of scaring the hell out of me. I honestly got my tie under the presser foot on my first try. Even for me who had been around top of the line retail machines for quite a while, there was a lot of new coordination to learn. I wouldn't make any changes to your machine just yet. Just keep playing with it -- stopping fast, starting again as slow as you can. After stopping, get used to leaving the needle in your scrap fabric so that you can pivot your work and start again. It's not like using your foot on a gas pedal, but you'll adjust to the nuance in short order. Many others have before you. Servo motors are wonderful because they provide such high torque at a crawl, but it's not something you have to do right away.

Edited by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)
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I went  one step further with my upholstery shop walking foot machine. 

 

I don't need high speed for production work, but because I occasionally sew through many layers of thick leather, I wanted the power, along with the control.

 

Going to a smallest drive pully available wasn't enough. I installed a sewing machine jack shaft system - sometimes called a speed reducer - that multiplies the power to the needle along with slowing the drive speed to about 1/3. I can do one stich at a time through thick materials and still have the motor speed range adjusted up where the motor is not straining.   It now has much more power than just a smaller pulley gives so I can do harness leather thickness type work for door check straps and accessory trunks, such as dog-bone handles and straps.

 

Some of the sewing machine sales places sell the jack shaft systems made to work with most commercial type sewing machines.  

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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Hi Joe, like others here I bought smaller pulleys and tried adjustments.  I just bought one of the servo motors (see photo) and have been very happy.  Note the switch on the side, that allows you to turn it down to (I think) 950 max rpm from the standard 3450.  The motor here is only $115 on Amazon, mine was an easy install and even used the original mounting holes.  It is quiet and smooth and I recommend it to any hobbyist, take a look at You Tube for videos, Todd C 

ConsewServoMotor.png

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I forgot to mention the huge change it was when Singer and others came out with DC servo motors for household machines. It was just amazing to stuff as much leather as possible under the presser feet and watch the needle pass through at any speed you desired. Most customers were astonished.

Edited by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)
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Just one  last  tip, start sewing  a  material that if  you  sew  it  wrong,  you  can  remove the  stitch  and  do  it  again.  leather and  vinyl are  not  forgiving. You  only  have  1  chance  to  do  it  wright. I  sewed  for  16  years  before I  did my  first  leather Hupmobile rumble seat  for  a  good  friend,  he  said  just  patch the  bottom  that  was bad. He  gave  me  a  whole  hide.  After studying the  amount  of leather  I  had, I  decided to  make  a whole  new  bottom seat. I  wish  I  had  the  pic to  show  you  but  its  not  at  this  location. I  can only  say  that  my  friend  was very  pleased with  the  seat.  

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Good advice, interestingly enough, the first sewing project I did was leather.

 

Yes, a mistake is usually not fixable, but if you learn on leather, you learn to go slow and do your best the first time.

 

kinda like learning to fly, the first plane you learn to fly can be a 747, you don't have to start with a Cessna ( or in my case, an Aeronca!!)...

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I've only sewed my finger once, and that wasn't doing upholstery!  My brother and I had a cotton gin and cattle feed business in Central Louisiana, one day I was bagging range cubes, the bag is filled then run on a conveyor belt through a sewing machine that's set horizontally.  Someone called to me just as I started sewing, I looked back and my thumb was sewn to the bag.  Not my favorite memory.....

 

Interesting that the Singer 111W155 is advertised as a "High Speed Walking Foot" sewing machine, so I can see the need for slowing it down.

 

If you get further into sewing, you'll also find that needles are different for leather and fabric.  The leather needle has "cutting" edges to slice through the hide, the fabric needle is rounded to slip between the weave.

 

If you're doing automotive work, make sure to use thread that has UV protection.

 

Let's see, what else....trust your mark, take your time, be prepared to do work over at times, keep your machine oiled, the list goes on...

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  • 1 year later...

I purchased a used Consew R206-RB5 Sewing Machine.  There seem to be a lot of them used for sewing convertible tops and leather interiors.  As a novice, it sews and basically starts too fast for me.  The original owner had already installed the smallest pulley on the drive motor that they could use, but that was not enough.  With a speed reducer, it takes a lot of the apprehension out of sewing because now I can really control my stitching.   This is now 1/3 of max speed.  Quality before speed.  Attached is what I used to lower the motor 4 1/2", and then move the pulley centerline left 3/4" so that I could install a prebuilt 3 to 1 speed reducer.  I used a 22" belt.  The wood 2x4 blocks are held together with 3 1/2" drywall screws.    Hugh

  1362497462_SewingMachine1.75shift.thumb.JPG.39e40fa4006369dd9d1e63c01018ce77.JPG246431309_SewingMachine2-speedreducer.thumb.JPG.e5ec8b603f7e010d674236acad8a5387.JPG1812090306_SewingMachine2aM22belt.thumb.JPG.d2d18db67b992fb77f4984bf9f8e438f.JPG368331687_sewingmachine3wood.thumb.JPG.b71bccb68736c67f6a696a1c8f838b2a.JPG1804088239_sewingmachine4wooddrawing.thumb.JPG.a946be814cbbe042b7feb83855ba5342.JPG

 

 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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I bought an old Singer walking foot machine, and it went way too fast. Not being as inventive as Hugh, I sold it and got a new walking-foot machine from Sailrite. It uses a tiny (in comparison) motor, but will go at a crawl and sews through multiple layers with no problem. It even has a hand crank. 

 

Phil

 

 

IMG_2358.JPG

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On 1/14/2019 at 5:43 PM, poci1957 said:

Hi Joe, like others here I bought smaller pulleys and tried adjustments.  I just bought one of the servo motors (see photo) and have been very happy.  Note the switch on the side, that allows you to turn it down to (I think) 950 max rpm from the standard 3450.  The motor here is only $115 on Amazon, mine was an easy install and even used the original mounting holes.  It is quiet and smooth and I recommend it to any hobbyist, take a look at You Tube for videos, Todd C 

ConsewServoMotor.png

 

This is what I did to my 111W155. I love it!

It is quiet, uses MUCH less energy than the clutch motor and is very easy to control.

My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

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Joe I am in the same situation as I have to do three tops and four interiors and have gotten some excellent advice from this group.  One suggestion I received from another group was to put a tennis ball under the foot switch to slow you down and provide resistance.  I also have an excellence article on converting pulleys. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y2Aapk7X8E&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3BtE9VhT5tsfb_R--TTcrQrDZ50YM8nMtz97_8axNKwUK9ObE33Nfeqic

Edited by jan arnett (2)
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I apologize veering off a bit, but I have a car guy friend who recently retired from a civil engineering career and bought himself commercial/industrial(?) grade sewing machine hoping/wishing to do upholstery on his own vintage cars, maybe on couple of mine.
I already offered and gave a seat from one of mine for practice, but unfortunately it doesn’t have anything for pattern, so he’s constantly pestering me for technical advise.

He has experience and is fairly good with mechanical side of cars (has built & raced them, etc), but seems to struggle a bit with innovative efforts on upholstery related concepts.
 

So my question is directed to experienced trimmers:

Any solid recommendations for 2-3 books on trimming, including creating/making patterns, working techniques and things to consider with different materials, etc. ?

 

 

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15 hours ago, TTR said:

I apologize veering off a bit, but I have a car guy friend who recently retired from a civil engineering career and bought himself commercial/industrial(?) grade sewing machine hoping/wishing to do upholstery on his own vintage cars, maybe on couple of mine.
I already offered and gave a seat from one of mine for practice, but unfortunately it doesn’t have anything for pattern, so he’s constantly pestering me for technical advise.

He has experience and is fairly good with mechanical side of cars (has built & raced them, etc), but seems to struggle a bit with innovative efforts on upholstery related concepts.
 

So my question is directed to experienced trimmers:

Any solid recommendations for 2-3 books on trimming, including creating/making patterns, working techniques and things to consider with different materials, etc. ?

 

 

It's not the direct response you're looking for, but has he searched YouTube for projects that he could follow along with from outset to completion?

Edited by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)
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If the original upholstery is still in the car,.......

With a careful look at how the upholstery fits, where's it's stretched or damage and then taping those areas back to fitting well, then careful use of a seam ripper to separate the upholstery's sections, you'd be amazed at how well original upholstery works as patterns.  

 

Paul

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47 minutes ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

It's not the direct response you're looking for, but has searched YouTube for projects that he could follow along with from outset to completion?

Thanks, but he's even more "old school" than me and doesn't do computer much or social media at all.

And like me, enjoys reading books, assuming subject is well written. 

 

31 minutes ago, PFitz said:

If the original upholstery is still in the car,.......

With a careful look at how the upholstery fits, where's it's stretched or damage and then taping those areas back to fitting well, then careful use of a seam ripper to separate the upholstery's sections, you'd be amazed at how well original upholstery works as patterns.  

 

Paul

Thanks, but as I mentioned, my car being used for practice or one of his do not have patterns and require some technical innovations, kind of like custom-jobs from scratch, but with limitations. I myself have fair amount of experience/knowledge, but don't have a lot of time to spend guiding/teaching him, so I thought 2-3 well done books would be helpful and good start, hence my inquiry about them.

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, TTR said:

my car being used for practice or one of his do not have patterns and require some technical innovations, kind of like custom-jobs from scratch, but with limitations.

 

Having no pattern or old trim at all is just a terrible way to start out, doubly so if the car is too old to use foam.

 

I was just taught by someone who already knew, after I had already made a whole bunch of stuff from existing patterns. I have not seen good comprehensive books on the subject. I'll be watching this thread. Maybe @trimacar knows...

 

In broad general terms, you need a big layout table. A piece of plywood covered with cheap fabric, probably cotton, from the local fabric store, stretched tightly and stapled underneath, Some cheap sawhorses will work for legs. Shim it up to match the sewing machine table height, and it becomes dual-purpose, as an extension of your sewing machine table.

 

You can make patterns from Kraft paper, Butcher paper, or in some cases thin posterboard. Try them where they will be. The trouble is that if the stuffing is new, it is going to be much bigger than when it is installed. You might just have to sew the piece all up out of cheap vinyl or scraps, and see how bad is, and start over. Repeat until usable. Yuck. It is much easier with foam if the car is new enough to use it, especially if it is original foam, as you can lay out your pattern, push it down in the mark from the old seam, and then add for a seam when you lay it out.

 

You can also, if you have the old covering, lay out the disassembled old parts on top of the new (both upside down) and tack it down (with double headed push pins and a tack hammer) on your layout table. Draw around it. This shortcut works pretty good when you are replacing only a panel or two in an old cover. Some guys do whole projects this way.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, TTR said:

he's even more "old school" than me and doesn't do computer much or social media at all.

And like me, enjoys reading books, assuming subject is well written.

 

Cechaflo on Youtube has some interesting stuff. If your friend wont watch I guess that's that. Others in here might find it useful. I hope you find the books you are looking for.

 

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Gentlemen, while I greatly appreciate all advise, please take into account that I have been restoring vintage cars for 40+ years and have personally done just about any/all aspects of it, including things like one-off curved windshields and glass to PB Class Winners (was even approached to make such for eventual BoS), not to mention coach work & metal fabrication and repairs, electrical/mechanical rebuilding/restoration, paint jobs, upholstery work, etc. so I’m more than familiar with all this.
I’ve even designed, engineered, patented and produced variety of components, parts, tools, etc. for NLA and other applications.

I’m just asking recommendations for books on upholstery work that I can gift to my friend, that’s all.

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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I am presently trimming a 1915 car, you did not say what your guy wants to upholster.  My car had a replacement interior which got us going but if it was bare there would still be pictures available to show how it should look.  My trimmer has never done anything this old so we are working on it together.  He made a pattern out of vynal, stretched it on the car, decided to make some changes and produced a second pattern before cutting into the leather finished material.

 

Long story, short, sit down and practice.  I started by making drop sheets, sewing long seams, straight.  I doubt if your engineer began at the drafting table designing the Titanic.  How do you get to Carnegie Hall is an old joke.  Practice, man, practice.

 

In the photo is the pattern for the front seat back.

 

Regards, Gary

DSC_2828.JPG

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TTR, 

First of all, the best way to learn upholstery is to watch someone in person. In my case, that's not possible. The second way is to watch someone via video. I know your friend is not computer-literate, but there are wonderful upholstery how-to videos on YouTube and the Sailrite website. I'm a rank amateur upholsterer (won't even call myself a trimmer yet) and these two sites have been worth their weight in gold.

 

Having said this, I have 3 books and a set of DVDs to recommend. 

  1. Essentials of Upholstery & Trim for Vintage & Classic, by Lee Jordan Locke. ISBN 911160-48-5
  2. Antique Auto Body Leather Work for the Restorer, by Herbert J. Butler. ISBN 911160-03-5
  3. Automotive Upholstery Handbook, by Don Taylor.  ISBN 1-931128-00-6

The first two books are not really instruction manuals. They give insight on how pre-30 car interiors are laid out and designed. The third book by Don Taylor actually gives how-to advice.

 

I also recommend buying a set of 17-DVD auto upholstery training course:

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Upholstery-Training-Course-17-DVDs-/352596284395

 

I bought the set and it's very helpful. Even includes an entire DVD on how to do diamond-tufting.  The catch is you can only play the DVDs on a DVD player, not your computer.  Your friend might like that.I bought a $35 DVD player to see the lessons. The price is a bit high, $330, but I consider the money well-spent. 

 

As for practicing, I bought several old seats at swap meets and tore them apart to see how they were made. I'm then going to make patterns from the old material and attempt to recover the seats. Also bought cheap material at the swap meets so I don't have to worry about screwing up. 

 

Which I will. 

 

 

book1.jpg

book2.jpg

book3.jpg

dvd.jpg

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RansomEli;  In the photo and for test purposes we are using loose polyester batting sold for stuffing children's animals.  In the final product I have washed, curled horsehair from Weavers Leather Supply in Ohio.  I cannot tell the difference but I have a friend who can look at a job and say horsehair, poly or foam material.

 

Funny story, A guy told me he bought some horsehair and soon had a house overrun by tiny moths.  I haven't brought my box into the house.

 

Regards, Gary

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19 hours ago, RansomEli said:

TTR, 

First of all, the best way to learn upholstery is to watch someone in person. In my case, that's not possible. The second way is to watch someone via video. I know your friend is not computer-literate, but there are wonderful upholstery how-to videos on YouTube and the Sailrite website. I'm a rank amateur upholsterer (won't even call myself a trimmer yet) and these two sites have been worth their weight in gold.

 

Having said this, I have 3 books and a set of DVDs to recommend. 

  1. Essentials of Upholstery & Trim for Vintage & Classic, by Lee Jordan Locke. ISBN 911160-48-5
  2. Antique Auto Body Leather Work for the Restorer, by Herbert J. Butler. ISBN 911160-03-5
  3. Automotive Upholstery Handbook, by Don Taylor.  ISBN 1-931128-00-6

The first two books are not really instruction manuals. They give insight on how pre-30 car interiors are laid out and designed. The third book by Don Taylor actually gives how-to advice.

 

I also recommend buying a set of 17-DVD auto upholstery training course:

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Upholstery-Training-Course-17-DVDs-/352596284395

 

I bought the set and it's very helpful. Even includes an entire DVD on how to do diamond-tufting.  The catch is you can only play the DVDs on a DVD player, not your computer.  Your friend might like that.I bought a $35 DVD player to see the lessons. The price is a bit high, $330, but I consider the money well-spent. 

 

As for practicing, I bought several old seats at swap meets and tore them apart to see how they were made. I'm then going to make patterns from the old material and attempt to recover the seats. Also bought cheap material at the swap meets so I don't have to worry about screwing up. 

 

Which I will. 

 

 

book1.jpg

book2.jpg

book3.jpg

dvd.jpg


Now, this is what I’m talking about. Thank you “RansomEli” !
If I only could get few more like this from our esteemed (and more experienced) trimmers...

 

... OTOH, having read few and leafed through many vintage car rebuilding/restoration “How-to-???” books (& magazines), I can understand hesitation for recommendations, as they can easily offer quite different or even opposing approach than reader with personal experiences might have or prefer and many seem to be written/published by someone having no clue as to the sensible approach or methods, kind of like those so-called car building/customizing/rebuilding/etc shows I hear people follow/watch on TV.

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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A friend just called and a fellow he worked with for his first upholster learning experience did a 1934 Cadillac V-16 Convertible Sedan top - it was pretty spectacular some 40 years later (I replaced it as there were a couple spots from the garage door dripping on it matched to some sun fading) and for his second job replaced the headliner in a Rolls-Royce Phantom III Town car (owned by Earl Heath) - they hand stitched the bows supports 1/2 way through the wool so that no stitches were visible. 

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