Matt Harwood Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) This is a little bit of a rant, but in this business, you get used to hearing the same thing over and over ("Let me check with my wife," being my least most favorite). Today, however, I heard a new one. I have a really nice muscle car, a rare one with good credentials. I have a build sheet, original invoice, bill of sale, Protect-O-Plate, even the loan documents the original owner used to buy the car. It has under 50,000 original miles and I have personally verified that it's a numbers-matching car. It's had three owners from new, all of whom cherished it. I have fewer questions about this car's history than I do about my kids'. It's bulletproof. So I have a buyer who hires an inspector to come look at it. The inspector is a moron, as they all are, and says he's been instructed to verify that it's not only matching numbers, but that it's what it purports to be. OK, have at it. I leave him with the car on the lift and go do some work. Half an hour later, he comes and asks me if I can show him where the numbers are that he's supposed to check. "Uh, aren't you an expert?" I asked. "No, I've never seen one of these up close," is his reply. So I show him the numbers he's supposed to verify and remarkably, they look just like the ones in the photos I sent the prospective buyer. There's no way they're re-stamps or fakes, the engine has never been out of the car. It's legit and everything lines up. Inspector spends a few more minutes trying to take pictures of tiny, crusty numbers in the corners of an engine compartment and pronounces the car good. Nice work, chief! The inspector leaves and I don't hear from the potential buyer for two weeks. He calls today and says that he won't be buying the car because, "There's just no way it can possibly be as good as it seems to be." Uh, WTF? For the first time in my professional career, I said an unkind word to a customer. What he was really saying is that there was no way he could possibly believe that I hadn't faked up the car and was lying to him. That was the only possible explanation, because all car dealers are liars and cheats and all inspectors are experts and honest. I was so offended at this point I told him to go to hell and hung up the phone (I hope it wasn't one of you). Why should I even bother being honest and forthright anymore if guys are going to assume that I'm a liar? Maybe I should become the cheating, lying, forging, faking, sinister criminal everyone already thinks I am. Seriously, I'm an expert. I know more about these cars than almost anyone but a single-marque expert, and I'm as good as many of those guys, too. But nobody will ask my thoughts or listen to my opinions, because I'm clearly a crook. The guy who drives the garbage truck could come in and say something about a car to a buyer and he'd have more credibility than I do. All the evidence right there, verified by a third party, and he still couldn't get over the belief that he was being cheated. Just a rant, but I've never heard someone say that a car was just too good to buy before. How stupid is that? Edited December 23, 2016 by MCHinson Political comment removed. (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 He was never a buyer. I've seen that in real estate also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) I've done business with you, Matt. You are no crook, and you know your stuff. Edited December 27, 2016 by BillP (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 That's a new one to me also, Matt. Never have I heard that. I HAVE heard from people that the item I sold them was "much better than the description". I always play up dings and dents so whenever a person gets an item from me, it's usually a LOT better than described. That way, nobody gets ripped off. Yes, lying DOES seem to help some folks as stated earlier. Too bad. Clearly that guy does not know you and your great reputation. Good luck with your next sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Matt, I enjoy a good rant from a knowledgeable ranter, and that was a good one. The potential buyer's (and I agree with Victorialynn that he wasn't really a serious buyer) statement of: "There's just no way it can possibly be as good as it seems to be." , was a new one for me also. I think that it also may have been wimp-speak for: "My wife won't let me buy the car". That guy deserves a good dose of "Instant Karma". Cheers and Merry Christmas, Grog P.S. I would've used the words: "Our politicians have ..." instead of "President Trump has ..." butt hay, that's just me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, victorialynn2 said: I've seen that in real estate also. Me too. After my last (personal) home sale was almost derailed by a home inspector's bogus claim my realtor pointed out that they always have to find some problem to justify their fee. It is all about perception when it comes to people's attitude about buying cars (or most things). Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and as Matt well knows often sound advice from either a seller or advisor means less than someone's own ego and vanity. This story is a new one on me too but all you can do is keep doing the right thing, best wishes, Todd C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Where I would be concerned Matt, is now this guy has every number that is on your car, and yes, please keep politics to yourself. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob duffer Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Matt, i don't know you and have never met you, but i look at the cars on your site and i would trust you without fail. The time you take with the pictures and describing in detail about each car is really hard to fake any part of. You are the expert in my opinion. Thanks for that story.I enjoyed it like i enjoy looking at your cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61-63 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 No, get over it and stay honest. I'm glad you told the bonehead to go to hell and then hung up on him. Tomorrow will be a better day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I recently sold a 1967 Lincoln Continental convertible. Because the car was sitting up for a long time, went through all the mechanicals, removed heads, new valves and seats, new timing chain, on and on. I drove it in a cold November with unleaded, low octane gas. Buyer came to see it, a hot day in April, same low octane gas, and the car was "pinging"...low octane, hot weather....the potential buyer had a friend who was an "expert", immediately said oh, bad engine, piece of...you know...I offered to go get a little octane boost, and retard the spark just slightly, for reasons you car guys know. Nope, not having any of it, potential buyer was pissed at me and got his deposit back....... I just love "Experts" who know all about cars.....a few adjustments as mentioned, had a great buyer and car is now living in Texas...sheesh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 36 minutes ago, 46 woodie said: Where I would be concerned Matt, is now this guy has every number that is on your car, and yes, please keep politics to yourself. And, exactly what could he do with these numbers??? I see ads, all the time, with the numbers obscured (especially the Harley guys), the plates covered and so on. Yet, every time you open your garage or go to the store, these precious numbers are on public display, for all the world to see and perform their nefarious deeds. And, yes, keep the political stuff to yourself. I can quote a litany of proven lies from the other side 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Ugh, my point wasn't to make a political statement but rather to point out that people don't seem to mind being lied to and maybe I'd have more success (and less stress) if I gave up trying to be honest and straight with people and just started telling them what they wanted to hear instead. Sorry about the political blow-up, that wasn't the intention. It just hurts to be an honest guy who is constantly accused of being a crook, that's all. I'll get over it. Merry Christmas, boys and girls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I get a kick out of "protecting your numbers" too...yet, if you send a check to someone, you've just given them your name, address, checking account number, name of bank, and routing number. Luckily, banks make it easy to deposit money, a little more difficult to take money from account. Thumbs over license plate numbers, in an IPhone picture of car for sale, is just silly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Ugh, my point wasn't to make a political statement but rather to point out that people don't seem to mind being lied to and maybe I'd have more success (and less stress) if I gave up trying to be honest and straight with people and just started telling them what they wanted to hear instead. Sorry about the political blow-up, that wasn't the intention. It just hurts to be an honest guy who is constantly accused of being a crook, that's all. I'll get over it. Merry Christmas, boys and girls. Matt I'd say that you've stepped up and helped me with info a lot. Says a lot for your character. Other forums I've been beat up for my lack of knowledge, but you and many others have been good to me here. Have a Merry Christmas and don't let one jerk spoil your day. Edited December 23, 2016 by victorialynn2 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: I was so offended at this point I told him to go to hell and hung up the phone (I hope it wasn't one of you). It was me, and I have to say you have some nerve Matt!!!!!() Just kidding, that was for that baseball card thing. I was a inspector for a company, for a few years. And no joke, they had a nick name for me in the office. "The deal killer" Nobody every bought a car that I inspected. Having done that side job for a while, it gives a person a different view of things. I had people mad at me for their sale falling through, they wanted copies of the report,copies of the pictures. I told a few people that if you had someone willing to pay to have your car inspected, you had a buyer. That buyer was interested in the car from your description, if your description matched my pictures and report. You would have sold your car. I think it hurt my business in some ways, because people got rubbed wrong with the no sale. I did nothing wrong, I did what I would want a inspector to do on my dime, look out for the buyer. Double edge sword, I have some other opinions on it as well. But it might be best to keep them to myself. If you want to be honest, it is a long road. I know, I am still driving on that road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) So fine, he was a buyer but not the right one. Every car I've sold, (6 or so, so not a lot), there was at least one negative nelly, but the buyers are all happy. Some stay in touch. One person's gold is another's trash. Move on. Xander you've helped me too, thank you, but I respectably disagree with you. Maybe his wife doesn't like the color. Edited December 23, 2016 by victorialynn2 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 This is the new millennium......nothing should surprise any of us anymore. Hopefully it will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Skyking said: This is the new millennium......nothing should surprise any of us anymore. Hopefully it will get better. I have to be honest, just about every day I find myself saying, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Only to find myself saying the next day, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, victorialynn2 said: So fine, he was a buyer but not the right one. Every car I've sold, 6 or so, so not a lot), there was at least one negative nelly, but the buuers are all happy. Some stay in touch. One person's gold is another's trash. Move on. Xander you've helped me too, thank you, but I respectably disagree with you. Maybe his wife doesn't like the color. You could be right, That is why I have a keg of beer in the shop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Just now, Xander Wildeisen said: You could be right, That is why I have a keg of beer in the shop. Just saying... Buyers remorse is real. Learned that in real estate. Not trying to make an enemy. I respect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 No fear of making a enemy out of me, I have no ax to grind with anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I'm with ya! As a new truck salesman I'm on the low end of the spectrum of jobs with honor. I switched to commercial sales a few years back so I could focus on customers who would actually appreciate someone looking out for them and being okay making a small but fair profit. Generally it's been a great experience. My initial quote is invoice minus rebates, which if you know anything about new cars sales you know thats not the absolute best price ever, but it's a pretty darn fair place to quote at. I still get people who effectively call me a liar to my face. Integrity matters, and if that's true for you, few things make you into a bigger soft skinned whiner, but that's reasonable, because if you didn't care that folks questioned your integrity, then you probably don't have much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Anymore I am never surprised at anything anybody does or says. There is always someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Politics are irrelevant to cars or value. Can't we, as adults, keep it separate. #justsaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I remember going to look at a really nice early Honda 2000 roadster and having to tell the owner who asked that the car was too nice for what I could afford to pay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Not that I am defending the prospective buyer, but I have once been in a similar situation. When I was younger I bought a fair number of cars, new quite a bit about sports cars and performance Fords . I would sometimes look at cars that were close to but above my price range knowing that almost all of them would be at least a bit worse than what the seller was making them out to be. It would then give me some leverage on the price. I could make what I thought was a realistic offer and sometimes the seller would call me back in a few weeks , sometimes I would never hear from them again. Nothing ventured nothing gained. But once the car was very good indeed, and priced fairly only problem was it was definitely out of my price range. I must admit I was a bit on the spot and made up what must have been an obviously lame excuse to the seller. Part of being a car crazy youth I suppose. I always learned a bit from every car purchase/ sale experience regardless of weather the deal went thru or not, but I am sure the seller in that deal dismissed me as a time waster kid, which as I look back 35 years later I surely was. Greg in Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Matt, maybe you should raise the price of the car so it its quality is easier to believe. From a buyer's perspective, this story is in part a reminder of how hard it is to figure out the quality and originality of a car if you're not already an expert. If you love a particular kind of car but don't know it all that well, the best advice is to hire an expert to take a look at one you're considering buying. But it's hard to know who is really an expert, and it's hard to know when you can rely on the advice of the expert (or who you think is the "expert") you have hired. Figuring out who to trust is really, really hard. On the other hand, I won't be buying cars from anyone who says they won't be buying cars from Matt Harwood because of his Trump comment. Edited December 23, 2016 by 1935Packard (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1935Packard your post reminded me of a private car sale that I made in 1963. A friend was putting new rings in his 54 flathead Tudor Ford. After breaking 11 rings he asked if I could help him. We finished the engine and a few months later he needed some new tires and was broke. I lent him $125 for tires. A couple of months later he said he didn't have cash and didn't want the car, would I take it in lieu of what he owed me. I did. I tried to sell the car for a few weeks for $125. Everyone wanted to know what was wrong with it. I went away for a vacation and my Grandfather sold it for $450. while I was away. He said he asked $500 and let them dicker him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezestaak2000 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 having sold cars for 35 years i can relate to your situation, and the false perception people have of car salesmen.it's really kind of comical in a way, people think that you lie just to make a quick buck and to sell them a bad car. having a reputable mechanic look the car over before purchase isn't a bad idea, as long as the inspector has a clue what he's looking at. lying about a car rarely gets it sold, the guy looking to buy it has already read the how to buy a car book and assumes you are not being truthful. another reason i didn't lie was those dam lies are just too hard to remenber who you told them too, and when the car dosen't bear them out, you're screwed. looking back worst lie i ever told a customer was on a test drive in a cadillac cimmoron, when he said "this thing has good power for a 4 cylinder" i said yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 " It just hurts to be an honest guy who is constantly accused of being a crook, that's all" I have no idea how many years you have been a professional auto salesman, but your comment above is one of concern. Being that you're an honest individual trying to make a living, and I have no reason to doubt your honesty or integrity, it may be time to re-evaluate your actions with your clients, your potential BUYERS. If you are being constantly accused of being a crook, your presentation needs to be inspected, perhaps fine tuned. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) I have met Matt, I like him, he has a fantastic reputation with others of my friends, and I know he is honest. I almost bought one of his cars, but he recognized I was trying to talk myself into that car, and told me so. He said he didn't want an unhappy customer, and he thought I was talking myself into that car, and end up not liking that car. I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to back out of buying the car. We'd spent a lot of both of our times talking about that car. I think probably I might have bought the car, but he was right, I was uneasy about that one. He probably talked himself out of a sale. Now that is an honest man. If he had the right car, and I had the money all at the same time, I'd buy a car from Matt Harwood in a NY minute. I was stung badly on a car I bought sight-unseen about a year and a half ago. Now I'm over-cautious. I don't fly anymore, but maybe I'm just going to have to do it again. Sometimes you just have to do what you don't like to do. Edited December 23, 2016 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intimeold Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I enjoyed your story; it was a new one for me, as well You didn't have to mucky it up by adding politics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Had the same problem selling a '68 plain Jane Camaro with just 4800 miles on it. No one wanted to believe how original it was. Even had guys peel back the rubber weatherstripping and convince themselves it was a repaint. My brother's mom-in-law was somewhat insane and was scared of air conditioning so her husband bought the Camaro without a/c. She then refused to ride in it because it was too hot, thus the low mileage. Finally sold it to a dealer down South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I knew a collector car dealer who would keep raising the price until it sold. I think it worked in a lot of cases for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I think that a image has been cast in stone about some jobs, is there truth in it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke01 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The "I'll have to ask my wife" is a poor excuse but the wife being in on the vehicle inspection can be worse. I had to listen to the wife grumble and complain for about an hour about the condition of a car that I thought was advertised quite honestly. On top of that the looker just wanted to see and ride in a car like he had in high school ('41 Graham Hollywood). I was glad to see the tail lights of their car. As to the politics, I've noticed that some people have very thin skin lately. Zeke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 So an appraiser who is an expert on Mopars looked at a GM car and couldn't believe how good it was. I know that story. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Thirty years ago I inspected and valued cars for banks and their estate planning department. I don't think I ever had everyone agree with me. I have heard many time that it is very hard to please everyone. I never tried to figure out everyone interest in the car only report the facts. The worst one was the estate of a local car dealer and his personnel car collection. A mechanic at his dealership had been borrowing some cars and drag racing and blew an engine. He just puled the blown engine and replaced it. It would not have been a problem until the owner died and I looked at a car listed with 25 miles and the numbers did not match. All ***** broke loose between the heirs over my appraisal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) If a person has a product I want at the price I want to pay, I don't care about their personal beliefs about, well, anything. I'm not going to let that affect my own life goals, processes, and aspirations. I live my life, you live yours. Years ago ago I was a wholesaler and got in trouble with my manager more than a few times for telling potential buyers to just either buy the vehicle or don't. I am done and I don't care what you decide. Some buyers weren't worth my time or trouble. I'm a hard person to manage. I do my job and expect others to do the same, and of course, that's not always going to happen. Edited December 23, 2016 by 39BuickEight (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) A few years ago I went in for jury duty. Being cynical and opinionated from intelligent observations over decades, I thought this would be an opportunity to show that I could, actually, be objective and fair. So, during a trial screening, the defense lawyer used car salesmen as a general example of person who would not be credible. During a short break I saw him in the hall. "Nice unbiased example of a person without credibility." I said to him. The group assembled in the room and his first duty was to remove me. People shouldn't be denied the ability to compare a situation with current events, social, political, or even little fantasies in the gray stuff. I laughed when I read it. Sometimes I like sport selling. I wouldn't sell a person important things, but a discretionary thing like an old car? It's a circus. I'm in for the entertainment. And I like Matt's write ups on the cars. He'd bore an audience of knuckle draggers to death on TV. But a guy like me, who reads shop manuals for cars I don't even own... well, I'd be on the edge of my seat. Maybe I have a more cheerful attitude because I have owned so many GM cars..... oops! That company belongs to the government now, doesn't it. Edit: One more thought. I am looking for a Cadillac or Packard convertible. I will NOT buy anything advertised as a convertable. Cars carry the stigma of their previous owner. Bernie Edited December 23, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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