Vandalism at AACA headquarters? What’s the story?

[TerryB]

On one of those Motor Trend TV shows they fixed the pushed in roof of an all original late 1960s Camaro by using a porta-power unit inside the car (interior removed) to press the roof back into shape, sort of like a big paintless dent repair.  I think it was the show that’s filmed in West Chester PA but I’m no 100% sure. Wood cribbing was used to direct and spread the force needed to pop the metal back into place.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Terry,I worked in body shops for years and I am looking at doing the same thing but the sunroof complicates some things.  It is not just one dent.  In any case, I am planning on using 4 X 4's and a bottle jack to do the same thing so that we can at least see if there is any hope. It will not pop back into place but might be able to McGuyver this at least temporarily.  The roof is ribbed which also is an issue.  She spent some time on the roof that is for sure.

 

The world has changed a lot and our police force ended up using social media and our local TV stations.  Tips came pouring in but also did the lady who did the damage and she completely owned up to it and explained her motive. That is when everyone including her family realized she needed some serious help and I hope she gets it.

[Gtjoey]

Don’t get weak my friend.

I got hit by a drunk driver at 80mph

The whole family came in crying

No insurance, no job . Lost his house

So just before I said Oh Well

They wanted ME to sign a release because he was applying for a State Trooper job and was arrested 2 times for DWI😳

Screw him I threw the book at him….

Dont get weak my friend

The weak lose, it’s time to reclaim!

Gtjoey1314

[STEVE POLLARD]

22 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

That is when everyone including her family realized she needed some serious help and I hope she gets it.

It's too bad that the AACA had to suffer from this act of destruction from this person... sounds like the family should of step up and give her the help she needed before it came to this. 

[TerryB]

5 minutes ago, STEVE POLLARD said:

It's too bad that the AACA had to suffer from this act of destruction from this person... sounds like the family should have step up and give her the help she needed before it came to this. 

They probably tried.  These cases with getting help for an adult person are complicated as I learned with my own family member.

[CarNucopia]

31 minutes ago, Gtjoey said:

Don’t get weak my friend.

I got hit by a drunk driver at 80mph

The whole family came in crying

No insurance, no job . Lost his house

So just before I said Oh Well

They wanted ME to sign a release because he was applying for a State Trooper job and was arrested 2 times for DWI😳

Screw him I threw the book at him….

Dont get weak my friend

The weak lose, it’s time to reclaim!

Gtjoey1314

I believe you are confusing compassion for weakness.

 

Long after everything is repaired and this event is a distant memory, the woman's family will likely still be struggling to help her get well.

 

I commend Steve for the right decision, trust his read on the incident and I'm glad he is showing that this organization has some humanity.

Edited Friday at 06:10 PM by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[8E45E]

47 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

The world has changed a lot and our police force ended up using social media and our local TV stations.  Tips came pouring in but also did the lady who did the damage and she completely owned up to it and explained her motive.

And what exactly was her motive??

 

Craig

[Reicholzheimer]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

And what exactly was her motive??

 

Craig

Just when I thought this had ended, a little more info.

Edited Friday at 07:27 PM by Reicholzheimer (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

And what exactly was her motive??

 

Craig

Craig, after learning most of the story and understanding she comes from a loving family who appear to be taking full responsibility, I think it best that I do not comment any more after this post.  She had a psychotic episode and conjured up voices.  In my effort to keep the forum informed after this ended up here, I think the conversation has carried on enough.  Suffice it to say that we believe things are being handled correctly and that AACA will be made whole.  The legal system will still have to play all this out but we understand the circumstances and hope she gets the help she needs.  

 

And Steve, in my view not fair to blame the family when you do not know all that they have tried to do.  GTJoey, if this was a willful act we would have a different view but this person did not understand her actions at the time.  While it may not seem these days that we are a civilized society, hopefully there are still people who have a heart and a brain and use them both when making these tough decisions.

[TAKerry]

Steve, unless its too painful😬 Can someone document the work as it unfolds on the King Ranch?  While I do not doubt you one bit, its hard for me to believe that you cannot locate a suitable roof donor! Maybe some trans am guys could help, they do roof swaps all the time, LOL.

[Steve Moskowitz]

10-4.  The truck is an exceptionally clean truck that looks brand new and has low miles but it is a 2008 and Ford has no roofs.  There were 5 different roofs for this series according to the body shop estimator and none available through Ford and there was no aftermarket roof produced.  We are looking for a suitable donor and do not need the sunroof but so far none have been found.  This truck is too valuable to us to total so we are committed to finding a solution.  A new one is way out of our budget!!!

 

oops!  I said I wasn't going to comment anymore!  Guess I am going to have to give myself a warning!

[kings32]

Good for you Steve keep up the good work ,youalways do the right thing .Howard 

[Laughing Coyote]

53 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

2008 and Ford has no roofs

Steve,

Is this a one year cab? what other years share the same roof? Single cab, extra, crew cab? maybe there is a donor cab or wrecked truck on a local CL for cheap or we all could look around for an option. 

 

[Gtjoey]

Guys Like others I owned a company that when I retired at only 52 years old

I had over 1,100 people on payroll or commissions per month

All from a guy Born in the Bronx and came from nothing with a 3rd grade education 😁

Ive bailed out people from every walk of life and I understand.

But If Steve is happy and

AND. AND the museum is made whole by the family I get it!

If it was young kids drunk and not 18 I get it!

If this WOMAN is 40ish and the family pays , that’s great.

But if you put this supposed 100 grand claim through NO FAULT we will have NO liability on renewal.

I owned one of the largest private insurance groups around.

This situation is soooo common that we are all losing.

Good luck , wish her WELL , get paid or you will never make it better

Again this is around 100 grand damage correct?

If it was a couple grand , who cares but because our society is so pathetic it’s destroying the hard working law abiding in favor of the others.

Good luck

Gtjoey1314

Steve if you need some advice you know how to get me!

love

lifetime memberGtjoey1314

[old car fan]

I really think this post should be silent, Steve will inform all of us,as time goes by.Its under control, out of our hands. Let's wait for  facts, not speculation. Steve and crew is on this. 

[wayne sheldon]

Personally, I am satisfied with the explanations being a conclusion to the sad event itself. Of course I would like to see an update or more about the repairs or any other changes made for future security (if appropriate?). I would of course like to hear about the truck's eventual repair.

 

Like TerryB, having dealt with some family members, I can say from experience that trying to help them these days is very difficult. Legions of "rights" groups come marching to their defense proclaiming they have the "right" to live their life "their" way regardless of future consequences. The state with their HIPPA rules, and medical "profession" with more interest in easy patients with deep pocket insurance companies to be billed? Just try to force a family member to get help.

 

I want that to be the last thing I say here on that subject.

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, old car fan said:

I really think this post should be silent, Steve will inform all of us,as time goes by.Its under control, out of our hands. Let's wait for  facts, not speculation. Steve and crew is on this. 

After seeing the AACA's fine facilities in person, including admiring all the excellent work done there, and then reading the title of this thread, I feel as if it my own garage that was violated.

 

Craig

[Restorer32]

We dealt with a '54 Packard sedan that had a building collapse on it by putting our 3 strongest employees in the front seat, lying on their backs and they used their feet and muscles to massage the roof back close to where it was needed to be.

[Littlestown Mike]

A big THANK YOU to Steve M---the members of the AACA benefit from your leadership at this time.

I would urge members to avoid imputing motives--you just don't know what you don't know.  Allow the system to play out.

 

I wonder if the fine folk at Motor Trend TV would be interested in a short series on the AACA and the repair of this damage. 

[TAKerry]

55 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

We dealt with a '54 Packard sedan that had a building collapse on it by putting our 3 strongest employees in the front seat, lying on their backs and they used their feet and muscles to massage the roof back close to where it was needed to be.

Doesnt the metal stretch as it is crushed in? thus causing buckles and waves once its pushed back into place. I know a small dent in say a quarter panel or fender can be massaged to 'shrink' it back but it seems a roof would be quite the challenge.  

 

Unfortunately it sounds like the truck is/was at a 'collision' shop for a factory replacement roof panel that is unobtanium at this point. The ironic part is there are many dozens of guys on here that could whip that think back into shape within a couple of days. Without having actually seen the damage, I would imagine a lot of us started with an antique car that is much worse.

[Barney Eaton]

Fix the Ford with a non-sunroof top and move on........ sunroofs are just a problem waiting to happen. 

[Angelfish]

Could you work with a local high school or votech to get some kids helping with the repairs?  Should be able to find some old cranky guys that know how to fix these cars that could work with teenagers to get the work done.   Get some young people involved and maybe make something good out of this mess. 

[rocketraider]

3 hours ago, Littlestown Mike said:

A big THANK YOU to Steve M---the members of the AACA benefit from your leadership at this time.

I would urge members to avoid imputing motives--you just don't know what you don't know.  Allow the system to play out.

 

I wonder if the fine folk at Motor Trend TV would be interested in a short series on the AACA and the repair of this damage. 

If it's not modified or can't promote aftermarket parts advertising they could not care less.

 

The explanation about "hearing voices" before embarking  on a rampage of destruction reminds me of The Stand's "Trashcan Man" character. For something first published in 1978 and rewritten and expanded in 1990, that book is unsettlingly prescient for current times.

[Reicholzheimer]

4 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We dealt with a '54 Packard sedan that had a building collapse on it by putting our 3 strongest employees in the front seat, lying on their backs and they used their feet and muscles to massage the roof back close to where it was needed to be.

I would like to see one photo of the roof. I'm sure it's' well documented.  This roof sounds like 4 Men.

Edited Saturday at 03:21 PM by Reicholzheimer (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Repairing the roof is easy, doing it so the truck isn’t totaled is the problem. Even with a correct direct replacement roof panel or a good cut off roof from another truck…….It ain’t easy. A new F450 King Ranch must be well over 125k all day long. Much depends on the insurance carrier. Their initial reaction is usually a low ball offer to total and take the truck. If the club is lucky enough to have it insured with the collector cars they probably have agreed value or replacement value. Regular insurance……….it’s probably not going to end well. All said, with Steve on the job……..it will work out fine. It’s just another headache he doesn’t need. Fort the roof is so high up a slight ripple or wave in it won’t detract from the overall vehicle. My GMC is a 2005 with just over 100k on it. I’m NOT stepping up to a new truck when this one gives up the ghost. For the 30 days a year I need it………I rent a truck for 105 bucks a day. It’s less cost than just the insurance, never mind the maintenance and cost of capital……….or depreciation.
 

[Billy Kingsley]

Perhaps a truck could be found that was in a front or rear end collision and the roof is fine and can be grafted on? It would be a significant amount of work but not impossible I'd imagine. 

[Dave Wells]

Take a look at this '63 Impala with a Plymouth roof. In addition, it sports a Thunderbird interior. As EdinMass says, "nothing is impossible if you have enough time and money".

 

 

 

In the background in the top photo is a '32 Ford with a chopped top, and in the lower photo, a '37 Ford with its top modified to a 3-window configuration. The Chevy pickup appears to be chopped also.

Edited Sunday at 07:58 AM by Dave Wells (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

A person stomping around on the roof of a vehicle complicates the problem, because it wasn't a single event with a directed force at one time. It is numerous separate events in a random order. This can change the best order in which individual but interconnected damages should be tackled.

A long long time ago, I straightened a rolled over model A Ford coupe using a modified modern automobile bumper jack rigged up with sections of water pipe to push the twisted backward body back to where it belonged. A roof section was replaced by a donor panel from a more completely wrecked coupe. The result was a very nice very straight coupe body. 

Over the years, I have straightened a lot of antique automobile bodies and fenders that were considered unrestorable. The secret is to assess years worth of damage, and then slowly press them back into the shape they were supposed to be. To that end, a few years ago when I was working on one of my model T disaster projects, I built a wooden beam frame with a hydraulic bottle jack rigged into the top to press fenders, hoods, and body panels of some size back into shape.

Always being on a tight budget, coupled with my desire to use original parts whenever possible, I preferred to repair rough original parts rather that buy nice reproductions. (Although I do highly recommend Rootlieb products. Not what I call "close" or "good" friends to me personally, but I have known the Rootlieb family for fifty years! They lived about fifteen miles from my grandparents and were regulars at the Turlock swap meet for many years. I would not want to in any way disparage any of their products.)

But me personally? I prefer to have hundred plus year old steel fenders on my 1915 Ford. To that end, I have straightened over two and a half full sets of fenders that few people would have ever attempted to repair, just so that I could have several good fenders to choose from for my runabout. None of them are ready for a show car (just being honest). But all of them, including a pair of front fenders that looked like they had been run over and flattened by a tractor, look pretty darn good for a driver quality T.

All that just to illustrate that I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about when it comes to repairing badly damaged bodywork.

 

Without actually seeing it? It is purely speculation.  But experience tells me that removing the seat and whatever else that is in the way, rigging up a crib or platform inside the body, and using a number of jacks to slowly and carefully press the dented areas back into place would likely give surprisingly good results. 

A couple years ago, the top twenty feet of a sixty foot tall pine tree hit the ground next to my parked 2001 Ford Expedition, bounced up and landed on its aluminum hood! I never finished the repair because it already had a state smog issue. But I was still using it while trying to resolve the smog issue. So I did basically the same quick setup with a jack and pressed the smashed hood back into near shape. It still has some wrinkles I think I could fix just fine if I can get the smog problem fixed. But the hood opens and closes just like it should now.

It is basically all about figuring out how and in what directions created the damage, then rigging it to push it slowly in reverse to force the damage out while also working out the creases and stress points created when the original damage was done.

 

Just some thoughts to consider?

[EmTee]

Who says it needs a metal roof anyway?  Take the old sunroof to the next level! 

 

[Billy Kingsley]

When NASCAR had a convertible division it was not unknown to run the same car in the Convertible and hardtop divisions. Those cars were known as Zippertops. 

 

It's not impossible to do

[hidden_hunter]

On 6/16/2024 at 2:11 AM, edinmass said:

Repairing the roof is easy, doing it so the truck isn’t totaled is the problem.

It's pretty much an instant total here because anything that involves cutting the roof structure requires an engineers certificate to re-register the car which for most cars people aren't going to bother

 

It's also why you see cars totalled in Victoria and show up in Queensland where they don't require it (you also have to legally declare it was a write off in Victoria and the cars are pretty much impossible to register anywhere else but Queensland) 

[Steve Moskowitz]

UPDATE:  The 1930 Lincoln is already in the repair shop and they have begun work.  The Ford F-450 is going to a 70,000 sq. ft. collision center that is equipped to do fabrication on Tuesday.  If necessary they will make a roof.  Unfortunately, this incident got a lot of unwanted press as the young lady was officially charged a couple days ago.  When I am able to definitively let you know how this all came out I will come back to this thread.

[Frank DuVal]

On 6/16/2024 at 8:53 PM, hidden_hunter said:

It's pretty much an instant total here because anything that involves cutting the roof structure requires an engineers certificate to re-register the car which for most cars people aren't going to bother

Not here! Any collision repair shop can fix a roof without any other certification needed than just know how to weld.... or not....😉  If the estimate of repair makes the car a total by exceeding a % of value, typically 75% or more, then other rules apply in several states. But if insurance isn't involved, then the repair could exceed the value by 1000% or more! 

 

People pop riveting a roof panel on would worry more about their Garage Keeper's Liability Insurance, oh, they probably don't have that either....🤣

[GrumpyJim]

On 6/15/2024 at 12:11 PM, edinmass said:

Repairing the roof is easy, doing it so the truck isn’t totaled is the problem. Even with a correct direct replacement roof panel or a good cut off roof from another truck…….It ain’t easy. A new F450 King Ranch must be well over 125k all day long. Much depends on the insurance carrier. Their initial reaction is usually a low ball offer to total and take the truck. If the club is lucky enough to have it insured with the collector cars they probably have agreed value or replacement value. Regular insurance……….it’s probably not going to end well. All said, with Steve on the job……..it will work out fine. It’s just another headache he doesn’t need. Fort the roof is so high up a slight ripple or wave in it won’t detract from the overall vehicle. My GMC is a 2005 with just over 100k on it. I’m NOT stepping up to a new truck when this one gives up the ghost. For the 30 days a year I need it………I rent a truck for 105 bucks a day. It’s less cost than just the insurance, never mind the maintenance and cost of capital……….or depreciation.
 

It's not as easy as you would think. The complication comes from the bracing under the roof skin. Along with the additional bracing if it does have a sunroof. Breaking the roof skin away from the adhesive foam and sound deadeners isn't easy. Not to mention replacing the adhesive once things are moved back close to where they should be. Doable? Yes. Easy? Not so much.

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

70,000 sq. ft. collision center

What does size have to do with ability to do good work? Only in the minds of customers. I have seen lots of large collision facilities go under! I have seen lots of large facilities make the rent and payroll by doing what I consider shoddy work. As one shop owner I know said "Allstate reinspected a car and said 'you didn't replace the whole quarter panel like the estimate said' so I refunded a little money because as far as I knew we NEVER replaced a whole quarter like an estimate said!".😁 And he had a LARGE boat! Drove a new Allante. I drove used cars... Hey, that's why I'm here. They are now antiques.🤣

[Steve Moskowitz]

Guys you all just seem to want to make more of this than necessary. This large collision shop is highly recommended and is owned by a prominent AACA family. I have total faith in them. Having worked in body shops for several years gives me the confidence we are doing the right thing.