Have you identified the next caretaker for your current collector car?

[Dr B]

On the for sale forum there is a thread regarding a large collection of early Corvettes for sale.  It got me thinking about who are the next caretakers of our cars.  Rather than highjack that thread I decided to start a new one. 

 

Disposal of our collectors cars either before or after we are dead is a recurring spoken and unspoken theme on the forum. Sometimes a person has voiced a desire for a car while in the current persons ownership and a right of first refusal or a verbal agreement is struck for when the car is sold.  Other times nothing is mentioned or done and the cars are simply sold by the wife, family, or estate lawyer.  For simplicity and expedience, valuable and/or large collection may go to auction. I've seen several of these happening lately.

 

I have tried to identify the next caretaker or know someone who can quickly identify a buyer/caretaker of my cars. My plan is to get rid of my cars (shortly?) before I leave this earth, but one never knows. If I depart this world before my cars depart my garage, my family know who these people are and can contact them.  I have also keep my family informed about current reasonable values for the cars to make sure they do not have wildly high or low expectations for what they will get for them thus either slowing the sale or losing estate value.

 

Have others made plans for the disposal of their collector cars when they are finished with them as the current caretaker?

 

Robert

[John_S_in_Penna]

On of our local AACA members had a large auction,

selling off most of his car collection.  But he lived to

be 100, even marking his 80th wedding anniversary.

I was told he regretted selling off his collection too soon.

[3macboys]

I've given my wife explicit instructions - call one auction house for the good stuff, a second one for everything else.  I'm a firm believer of the KISS theory.  If any of our kids want something it will be theirs for the taking but I also don't want to burden them with something that A) they are not interested in or B ) they are not in a position to take care of.  At the present one is in university, one is married with a baby and the third is in the military with no garage to house anything.  Now being 55, I'm hoping this is a road trip way in the future.  

[John348]

21 minutes ago, Dr B said:

Have others made plans for the disposal of their collector cars when they are finished with them as the current caretaker?

 

Robert

Robert, I have been thinking about it a lot the past year. I don't care who purchases my cars, but I really don't want to see them again after I sell them.

[arcticbuicks]

possibly there will be a huge mass movement and government regulations in the fight against climate change.......and all gas cars will be banned from the roads.......and a program where we will all have to drop our gas cars off at the nearest recycling yard and get a $3500. credit towards buying a new EV......after a certain date ?

[PONTIAC1953]

My oldest son Byron, will inherit the 1953 Pontiac Chieftain Custom Catalina when I'm gone, with him knowing that I want it passed on to my oldest grandson Nathan, when the time comes that Byron is gone too.

[TTR]

If my wife survives me, all this will be for her to figure out, but in the meantime I’m trying to use/wear them out as much as I can before I’m to decrepit to drive them myself and if or whenever I no longer can, I’ll probably try to find someone (younger ?) who can and will appreciate them in similar fashion/spirit and just sign them over to him/her.

One thing I do hope is that my cars don’t end up in some collection or museum to sit and rarely see any real activity/use as that would be waste of them and against every fiber of my lifelong vintage car philosophy. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[pkhammer]

  I have a friend at work, he still works as a full time machinist in his early 80's. He is a widow now and never had any children. Just recently he has started to find new homes for his cars and motorcycles, most of which he has had since new or least nearly new. He just sold his '55 Chevy to a young man that has not only shown interest in the car, but has proven himself to be a meticulous caretaker that will likely never sell it. If I make it to his age, I think I'd be doing something similar, that is if I owned anything that anybody would actually want! 

[zepher]

My daughter wants at least one of my prewar cars.
I'm hoping she is willing and able to care for both of them.
She hasn't driven either one yet, but she is itching to do so.
She needs to get her driver license, first.  

[Twisted Shifter]

 

 

 

Have you identified the next caretaker for your current collector car(s)?

Probably this operation:   (directly or indirectly)

 

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

You can also donate your cars to a museum, but it's important to have the conditions of the donation in writing and signed by an authorized person from the museum.  While your car may appear in the museum for some time, cars are frequently "de-accessioned", meaning the museum sells them.  You can have conditions that specify if the museum no longer wants the car, that they give it back to your family for free.  Sometimes, museums sell off cars as soon as they receive them if there is no previous agreement to display and maintain them.  For the most part, once the car leaves your garage, anything can happen.

[alsancle]

I'm going to give a different answer.    The question should be "What should I be doing so that my wife and or kids aren't swearing at me because of the cars after I pass?".     The answer is:

 

1.  Be sure that each car is titled.  Not an open title from 35 years ago.  Not title from some obscure country.  A real title in  BOTH of your name and your wife stipulating “OR” not “AND”.   BE SURE TO VERIFY TITLE VIN MATCHES CAR.   Seems to be about a 10% error rate on pre-standardized VIN cars.

 

2.  Be sure that all paperwork associated with each car is in an easy to find well known place.  I use 3 ring binders,  but a banker box for each car (not ALL the cars in one box!) will work too.

 

3.  If you want specific cars to go to specific people (other than your wife since she is already on the title) then spell it out in your will.   If you want specific stuff of not great value to go to certain people then a note with instructions might be fine.   For example,  Ed is getting the crazy hood ornament off my Stearns Knight assuming he can outlive me.

 

4.  Otherwise the cars are to be sold then leave specific instructions for who is supposed to sell them.   My advice is to NOT assign a friend unless they are professional knowledgeable in the type of cars you have.   For example,  don't give your prewar Buick collection to a Corvette dealer.   Also, have more than one option as things change and guys die or go out of business.     I have three friends that know what they are doing.  I told my wife to use any of the three.

 

5.  Do not assign values to the cars.  You will be wrong and it will cause problems.   You need to trust the guy(s) you assigned in #4 to do the job right.

 

6.  Oh yeah,  the guy in #4 is going to get paid.  Maybe friends and family discount, maybe not but they are providing service and the fee should be whatever they usually charge.

Edited December 20, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

30 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I'm going to give a different answer.    The question should be "What should I be doing so that my wife and or kids aren't swearing at me because of the cars after I pass?".     The answer is:

 

1.  Be sure that each car is titled.  Not an open title from 35 years ago.  Not title from some obscure country.  A real title in  BOTH of your name and your wife.

 

2.  Be sure that all paperwork associated with each car is in an easy to find well known place.  I use 3 ring binders,  but a banker box for each car (not ALL the cars in one box!) will work too.

 

3.  If you want specific cars to go to specific people (other than your wife since she is already on the title) then spell it out in your will.   If you want specific stuff of not great value to go to certain people then a note with instructions might be fine.   For example,  Ed is getting the crazy hood ornament off my Stearns Knight assuming he can outlive me.

 

4.  Otherwise the cars are to be sold then leave specific instructions for who is supposed to sell them.   My advice is to NOT assign a friend unless they are professional knowledgeable in the type of cars you have.   For example,  don't give your prewar Buick collection to a Corvette dealer.   Also, have more than one option as things change and guys die or go out of business.     I have three friends that know what they are doing.  I told my wife to use any of the three.

 

5.  Do not assign values to the cars.  You will be wrong and it will cause problems.   You need to trust the guy(s) you assigned in #4 to do the job right.

 

6.  Oh yeah,  the guy in #4 is going to get paid.  Maybe friends and family discount, maybe not but they are providing service and the fee should be whatever they usually charge.

 

This is perfect. I have nothing to add.

[TTR]

And although in my early sixties I might be a relatively youngster among many here, I recently started to unclutter  my life and storages from vintage car parts I’ve accumulated/stashed away in past 4 decades and know I will never need/use most of them.

Couple of months ago took a pickup load of random parts to a brand/club specific 1-day swap meet, to sell first time in 25+ years. Had hoped to get rid of most and come back with $2K-$3K or something but unexpectedly brought 98% of parts back along with almost $7K.🙄 Perhaps I priced everything wrong ?

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Best consult an "in state" attorney before disposing of your property via probate. There's many ways to minimize or aggravate the tax bite....Bob

[JamesR]

Since my cars aren't high dollar, I'm worried they'll end up in the hands of the guy who did this to a Mercedes. Guys with high dollar cars and Packards and Ferraris don't have to worry about that.

 

 

[Dr B]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

  Be sure that each car is titled.

This did not cross my mind. Since I drive all my cars they are all titled and have tags.  I am not aware how a car that is driven could legally not be titled and have tags and insurance. Is that possible or are we only talking about project cars or "garage art"  that are off the road? I guess the latter is how skip titles occur. 

 

Robert

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dr B (see edit history)

[61polara]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

If you want specific cars to go to specific people (other than your wife since she is already on the title) then spell it out in your will.  

You need to discuss this with a lawyer and DMV.  The car is titled jointly with your wife and you leave the car to someone else, then they will now own the car with your wife!  Overall, great suggestions.

[Dr B]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

real title in  BOTH of your name and your wife.  

I am not a lawyer, but I am not clear about the logic for both names on the title. If I am dead, I can't sign the title as one of the two owners. I know the executor/wife can get a notorized form to legally sell the car after my death even if it is only in my name.

 

Robert 

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, Dr B said:

I am not a lawyer, but I am not clear about the logic for both names on the title. If I am dead, I can't sign the title as one of the two owners. I know the executor/wife can get a notorized form to legally sell the car after my death even if it is only in my name.

 

Robert 

Thank you. I forgot to mention one point and will let it my post. The titles need to say “OR”, not “AND”.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, Dr B said:

I am not a lawyer, but I am not clear about the logic for both names on the title. If I am dead, I can't sign the title as one of the two owners. I know the executor/wife can get a notorized form to legally sell the car after my death even if it is only in my name.

 

Robert 

You are correct. If you’re leaving the car to someone else, you probably only want your name on the title. That rarely happens when the wife is still alive, however.

[Akstraw]

39 minutes ago, Dr B said:

This did not cross my mind. Since I drive all my cars they are all titled and have tags.  I am not aware how a car that is driven could legally not be titled and have tags and insurance. Is that possible or are we only talking about project cars or "garage art"  that are off the road? I guess the latter is how skip titles occur. 

 

Robert

I just bought a car that had an open title from 1991.  In the past three years, I have passed on buying two cars because the number on the title did not match the number on the car.  Couldn’t agree with Alsancle more, esp. point #1.  When you are talking 50-100 year old cars, anything could have happened in the past to result in screwed up paperwork.  Several years ago, I skipped going to a rainy Hershey to stay home and do title work for three days.  I sleep better now knowing that all the titles are in my name and unencumbered.  

[Dr B]

11 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Thank you. I forgot to mention one point and will let it my post. The titles need to say “OR”, not “AND”.

That makes much more sense to me now. Thanks.

 

Robert

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dr B (see edit history)

[Dave Henderson]

In any event just hope that after you pass your wife doesn't sell your cars for what you told her you paid for them...

[keiser31]

My kids are each supposed to get a 1931 Dodge coupe, but we will see how they are equipped to own them. My daughter is interested, but I don't think my son is.

[Mark Wetherbee]

40 minutes ago, Dave Henderson said:

In any event just hope that after you pass your wife doesn't sell your cars for what you told her you paid for them...

Don’t laugh, this happened before… about 30 years ago I was helping pick up a car from a dealer in New Hampshire and that dealer had a super well professionally restored Model A Phaeton in his shop that only needed the top finished - he was selling it for the wife of a friend who had passed away and she “only wanted to get the $7500.00 he had in it” back out. There was no way in the world he had less than 20k in the restoration even then…

 

All our cars, antique or modern, are titled in both our names with surviving ownership to make it easier to sell them if something happens, and I believe most states offer this type of title. As far as what happens to them is up in the air but any spare parts are well labeled so they can be kept with the car and I’ve put a note with the will for a few things that I think belongs somewhere specific as well. Hopefully I have many more years to enjoy driving them around…

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, Akstraw said:

I just bought a car that had an open title from 1991.  In the past three years, I have passed on buying two cars because the number on the title did not match the number on the car.  Couldn’t agree with Alsancle more, esp. point #1.  When you are talking 50-100 year old cars, anything could have happened in the past to result in screwed up paperwork.  Several years ago, I skipped going to a rainy Hershey to stay home and do title work for three days.  I sleep better now knowing that all the titles are in my name and unencumbered.  

If everybody on this forum matched their title to the actual car, I would bet quite a bit that at least 5% are wrong.

 

How many people take the title when it comes in the mail and go out to the car and make sure it’s correct? I know I never did.

[R Walling]

17 hours ago, Dr B said:

               ...My plan is to get rid of my cars (shortly?) before I leave this earth, but one never knows. If I depart this world before my cars depart my garage, my family know who these people are and can contact them.  ...

I had asked a friend what he was going to do with his collection of antique dragsters after he died. He said, "someone will want them after I die".  He unexpectedly passed away a few months later at a car club meeting, so I guess he was right, they will find a new home.

 

 RIP Paul.

[TTR]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

How many people take the title when it comes in the mail and go out to the car and make sure it’s correct? I know I never did.

I thought that was given, at least in my world, but as you point out perhaps not in most owners.

Makes me wonder whether or not they check for the (in)accuracies on their other property titles. 🤔

Edited December 20, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

If everybody on this forum matched their title to the actual car, I would bet quite a bit that at least 5% are wrong.

 

How many people take the title when it comes in the mail and go out to the car and make sure it’s correct? I know I never did.

 

Your 5% number is low. Transposed digits are EXTREMELY common and frequently go unnoticed for years and if the car never gets a VIN inspection for registration, possibly through multiple owners. An 'S' might become a '5' or a '1' becomes an 'I' and nobody ever double-checks. Then there are also factory typos--we had a 6-cylinder 1965 Mustang with a 200 cubic inch inline-6, and the number stamped on the fender apron had a C, indicating a 289 cubic inch V8. The door tag had the correct F code. It was a highly original car and nobody swaps a 289 for a six-cylinder (including the 4-lug hubs), so we knew it was a factory typo.

 

This is actually one thing auctions are good for--they don't do anything to the cars besides check to make sure the title matches the car so they can sell it.

[28 Chrysler]

13 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

In any event just hope that after you pass your wife doesn't sell your cars for what you told her you paid for them...

If I was younger, I would wish she would.

[Scooter Guy]

17 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

You can also donate your cars to a museum, but it's important to have the conditions of the donation in writing and signed by an authorized person from the museum.  While your car may appear in the museum for some time, cars are frequently "de-accessioned", meaning the museum sells them.  You can have conditions that specify if the museum no longer wants the car, that they give it back to your family for free.  Sometimes, museums sell off cars as soon as they receive them if there is no previous agreement to display and maintain them.  For the most part, once the car leaves your garage, anything can happen.

My wife is in the museum business as a curator at a well-known museum (non-automotive, but still...)

 

Most well-established museums would not agree to accept an object (i.e. car) with strings attached unless it was one of truly exceptional historical value. They will likely tell you that there are two choices: you do a donation free and clear and relinquish control over the object entirely or you that you loan them the object so that you can retain control over it and get it back. Museums do not exist just to serve as a vault for our personal collections nor do they wish to provide free housing and maintenance. Yes, museums do deaccession items, but having a museum give the object back for free would be highly unusual, and would have some legal implications in some cases, if, for instance, the donor received a tax write off for the initial donation. 
 

Museums should also not be thought of as forever homes for our stuff. They can come and go and run into financial challenges, managers can leave and so forth. Just look at what happened with the National Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, Iowa. They had a huge collection of bikes (hundreds) and memorabilia and the institution seemed rock solid. But behind the scenes it was ultimately mostly the work of one man and his family and although they were established as a non-profit, had a governing board, charged admission, and owned a huge facility, disaster struck. The man that was the driving force got sick and passed away. The family and board continued to operate the museum for a few years after his passing but the challenges became insurmountable, and they closed late this summer and ultimately had a massive auction of all of the holdings of the museum which included bikes and memorabilia that had been donated to them (those that loaned items did get them back). Those that donated items there with the idea that they would be cared for and displayed in perpetuity were surely left disappointed. 

 

I agree that once the car leaves your garage, anything can happen.

In my opinion the best way to ensure your cars and memorabilia live on is to let your family or friends take what they love and then circulate the rest back into the hobby via auctions or private sales. That can happen before you die or can be spelled out in a will for your estate to deal with. There probably is a museum somewhere that would accept a car donation under the sort of conditions mentioned, but I think that would pretty rare. Anyone that is seriously considering a museum future for their cars really should do their homework to avoid having the situation end in heartbreak. 

[1912Staver]

21 hours ago, Twisted Shifter said:

 

 

 

Have you identified the next caretaker for your current collector car(s)?

Probably this operation:   (directly or indirectly)

 

 

 

Look at how rust free they are. It must be somewhere very dry.  I have been fighting rust in my old cars for 50 + years and counting. Such a waste of rust free body parts /shells !

Edited December 20, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

19 hours ago, Dr B said:

This did not cross my mind. Since I drive all my cars they are all titled and have tags.  I am not aware how a car that is driven could legally not be titled and have tags and insurance. Is that possible or are we only talking about project cars or "garage art"  that are off the road? I guess the latter is how skip titles occur. 

 

Robert

No car from Canada has a title, we don't use them. As far as I have seen on here a few States don't use them either and a larger number don't issue them on cars older than a certain year. So there is bound to be a fair number of collector cars out there that that don't have a formal title. 

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, Scooter Guy said:

In my opinion the best way to ensure your cars and memorabilia live on is to let your family or friends take what they love and then circulate the rest back into the hobby via auctions or private sales. That can happen before you die or can be spelled out in a will for your estate to deal with. There probably is a museum somewhere that would accept a car donation under the sort of conditions mentioned, but I think that would pretty rare. Anyone that is seriously considering a museum future for their cars really should do their homework to avoid having the situation end in heartbreak. 

 

A very well known collector gave a number of his cars and memorabilia to friends when he passed.   He had no kids and was on the wealthy side of things but it is an interesting concept.    After that happened I have other friends who started thinking about doing something similar.

Edited December 20, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

9 hours ago, alsancle said:

If everybody on this forum matched their title to the actual car, I would bet quite a bit that at least 5% are wrong.

 

How many people take the title when it comes in the mail and go out to the car and make sure it’s correct? I know I never did.

 In Ohio, you get your title at the DMV window. No waiting for the mail to arrive to see if it's accurate. You check it right there and then.

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, West Peterson said:

 In Ohio, you get your title at the DMV window. No waiting for the mail to arrive to see if it's accurate. You check it right there and then.

Is it checked as part of the process automatically or do you as the owner need to do the check just because?   The issue is that everybody is trusting/lazy (me included) and sometimes 20  years later you find out the title is wrong.

[West Peterson]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

Is it checked as part of the process automatically or do you as the owner need to do the check just because?   The issue is that everybody is trusting/lazy (me included) and sometimes 20  years later you find out the title is wrong.

I'm not sure what you're asking regarding automatically... I look at the title when they slip to me, and check the number against the old title/bill-of-sale.

[Gary_Ash]

While putting the fate of a car in your will is not the worst thing you can do, there are other, better methods of dealing with this.  Proper wills can be expensive to create and expensive to change.  So, if the car is disposed of or your wishes change before you go, the will needs to be changed.  Better is to simply write a document and sign it describing your desired fate of the car and simply attach it to a copy (or copies) of the will.  You can easily take that document back and write a new one if needed. 

 

In the ideal world, your attorney and your financial adviser - two separate people - should discuss the financial consequences of having cars in your estate and make a plan for you.  Donations to a 501(c)(3) qualified museum will take the car out of your estate without tax consequences to your family.  @Scooter Guy  has pointed out the limitations of what museums will accept as conditions leaving loans or straight donations as the most likely paths.  Most importantly, pay a good attorney to advise you and do the paperwork.

[Robert G. Smits]

5 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said:

to simply write a document and sign it describing your desired fate of the car and simply attach it to a copy (or copies) of the will.

Have it witnessed by a non family member or preferably a Notary