What do you do when your restorer becomes ill

[MKulina]

This past weekend I went to visit a shop where my car is being worked on.  It's been a slow process as the restorer works part time and I had limited the monthly spend. 

 

There really wasn't much progress over the last visit, and it had been a year.  We talk quite often and he has been telling me he is slowing down and his life is catching up with him. 

 

At what should I pull the car out of there?  It's a horrible time as I having a addition put on the house and the garage here has to be empty.  But I am afraid if he gets worse my car could be stuck there.  I can't afford that. 

 

Anyone have a shop near Orlando that has done them right?

 

Thanks, appreciate any suggestions

[alsancle]

You forgot to mention the most critical piece of  information.    Is this a Duesenberg or a AMC Gremlin we are talking about?

[Bryan G]

You would not be the first guy to show up at his door someday to find the place boarded-up, the bays inside empty, and nobody around who can tell you where your car went. My father once rented a building to a rather sketchy "restorer". One day I went by to try and collect the rent and I found everything of value long gone, just a bunch of junk left behind. A friend called me frantic soon after, wanting to know if I had any idea where the guy went as he had their first car, halfway through restoration. I don't know if they ever found it, or him. Of course, I don't think that's the case here...the gentleman just may never quite get finished before he is.

[Matt Harwood]

GET YOUR CAR NOW. It's in pieces, where are the pieces? Does he have them? If he's incapacitated, how will you ever get everything back? What if subcontractors have things? Do you know who they are?

 

Go get your car. Figure out another shop later.

[marcapra]

Getting an antique car restored these days is very hard if you rely on shops like that.  I lost my handyman a few months ago when his truck broke down and I have been lazy about my car ever since.  It's very hard if you are a working alone because you don't have enough incentive.  You need to see progress at least every week on your car, or you will lose interest.  When I see someone driiving an old car, it gives me new incentive!   

[Rivguy]

I agree on getting the car back right away. A family friend was having a 1950 Ford Pick up customized by a shop. Chopped top, pancaked hood, all of the Fifties tricks. It was going to be a multiple year project. Some of the work was started. Then the shop closed up then moved, without notifying him, taking the truck. It took him over a year to locate his truck, but he was unable to retrieve it since the building was locked up and the proprietor was nowhere to be found. His attempts ended as his health took a bad turn and he passed away earlier this year. His widow is just going to consider it a loss, since she has other problems to deal with.

[Trulyvintage]

Why the attacks on the person 

doing the restoration work ?

 

The OP set the criteria for the restorer.

 

 

Jim

[Buffalowed Bill]

I don't see an attack here at lest not one that shows any malice. It just seems like common sense to remove the car now while your restorer still has the capacity to help you find the whole car. The sooner the better. I hope that there is not still money owing or a deposit made for work that has not been completed.

 

Looking at the situation through the eyes of the restorer, he might welcome the simplification of his life. If it were me such a commitment would be a constant worriment. Knowing that I couldn't fulfill a commitment has to be a burden. 

[marcapra]

7 hours ago, alsancle said:

You forgot to mention the most critical piece of  information.    Is this a Duesenberg or a AMC Gremlin we are talking about?

I am very proud to report that back in the 80s, I used to own one of the two cars mentioned above!  I don't want to tell you what it was, but Jay Leno did feature the car on one of his shows.  

[Twisted Shifter]

Rent a storage unit close to your home and store your car there until you can bring it home or have found a new restoration shop. Don't forget to gather up ALL the parts, ask about any pieces out to subcontractors and any still coming in from suppliers. Then settle the tab.

Worst case is that you could bring it home now. With adequate cover, it should easily survive the autumn season out-of-doors in Orlando until you can get it into the garage. Good luck.

 

 

 

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

GET YOUR CAR NOW. It's in pieces, where are the pieces? Does he have them? If he's incapacitated, how will you ever get everything back? What if subcontractors have things? Do you know who they are?

 

Go get your car. Figure out another shop later.

 

This is probably what he should do.  But I'm not advising anything until I know what the car is. 

[Mark Wetherbee]

I’ll add perspective from the other side…well sort of anyhow.

 

In the last few years of my Dad’s life he would do mechanical work on Model T cars for friends. When he passed there was thankfully only one T chassis in pieces that was owned by a club member that he and I both knew well BUT nothing was identified as parts to that particular vehicle. The executor, my very big A-Hole of a brother who cares nothing about the cars, was not accommodating with the owner and it took a lawyers threatening call to him to get me access to get the parts together for my friend to move the chassis. Through all this my brother was as unhelpful thinking that I was trying to “steal” stuff from the estate. 
 

Second scenario, I was given a quote to have a set of connecting rods for my Pierce re-Babbitted by a very well respected professional and sent them out not knowing he was in very poor health. Well , he passed away shortly after and when I called to see about the rods his son, who was very much worse than my brother, told me he would do the work but his price was almost double his father’s and I nearly had to get a lawyer involved. He finally sent me the rods back although I don’t know if he did it because I had called the estate attorney to see about petitioning the probate court. A set of replacement cores were very expensive and hard to source…
 

I think it would still be very wise to remove the car before something like that happens, not because of the restorer’s fault but you just don’t know what could happen in an estate situation.

[TTR]

Another perspective (from a restorers point of view):

What to do if/when the client/car owner (or subcontractor) unexpectedly dies, becomes ill or financially unable to sustain the project ?

In 30+ years, I've experienced all of these scenarios and can say none are pleasant experiences nor necessarily have easy or simple outcomes.

 

Also, having taken over (and finished) several botched or unfinished projects, I can say those aren't necessarily easy nor inexpensive propositions either. In most case, they usually end up costing more ...  

 

P.S. I've always (well, 30+ years) had habit of keeping any and all removed components and parts from each ongoing project on dedicated and clearly marked locations/shelfs in my shop, just in case I was to become incapacitated*, so that almost anyone could come in and easily figure out which components or parts belong to which project... 

 

* A few months ago, while at the gym, I had an accidental fall which lead to an ambulance ride and ER visit and could've easily been a lot worse than the 12 stitches I received to top of my head, not to mention potentially unhappy clients. 🙄

Edited September 20, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[46 woodie]

I agree that you should get your car as soon as possible. The way you describe it, your restorer might be giving you a hint as to his health and just not able to come out with it. This isn't a new story however, how many times do we all read about a shop closing and the door is now locked and a court order needed to get your car and any parts that you can find. I have lived thru the same situation but in reverse.

[TTR]

I don't necessarily agree with most comments about arbitrarily/immediately removing/retrieving the car, especially since none of us know all the details involved with this story.

All we have is one-sided and rather vague description (which may or may not be an accurate or complete representation of reality) by a first time poster.

 

In my opinion, first and foremost, OP needs to have a direct/frank talk, preferably face-to-face and rather sooner than later, with his/her restorer to discuss, in clear terms, how to proceed. 
 

P.S. Also IMO, the year, make or model of the car in question is completely irrelevant.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[Robert G. Smits]

What is sooo secret about the make and model of the car in question?   

Edited September 20, 2023 by Robert G. Smits
clarification (see edit history)

[JACK M]

22 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said:

What is sooo secret about the make and model of the car in question?   

Only the OP would know that, and he seems to be missing in action.

However, it hasn't even been a whole day.

Speculation seems to be either a Duzy or a Gremlin.

But in reality it may be a 97 VW.

[John348]

14 hours ago, Trulyvintage said:

Why the attacks on the person 

doing the restoration work ?

 

The OP set the criteria for the restorer.

 

 

Jim

Jim,

I don't see it as anything personal, only a business decision. After all it is a business transaction

[60FlatTop]

One of the quotes people have heard from me over the years. "I would rather have you hate me today than have me hate you for the rest of my life". But it adds clarity to the conversation.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Very easy to rent a local storage unit in your area. They have lots of move in specials. Pre pay for six months. Move your car and parts in there, close the door, lock the door. Remove the issue from your plate for six months. Solves all your existing issues with the car for about 450-600 dollars. Plus it is a great time to inventory all the parts, and maybe give thought to what the project means to you, where you are at with it, and gives you time to locate someone to finish it out for you.

[1912Staver]

Why don't I live in the States ? Around here 6 months rent of $450 - $600  wouldn't get you enough space to store a suitcase let alone a car. A single garage in a run down part of town is $1200.00 and up. If you can even find one. A 2 space shop even out here on the fringes of town where I live is $2500.00 and well up / month. That 6 months breathing space would be more like 15 G's than a few hundred $.

[Marty Roth]

38 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Why don't I live in the States ? Around here 6 months rent of $450 - $600  wouldn't get you enough space to store a suitcase let alone a car. A single garage in a run down part of town is $1200.00 and up. If you can even find one. A 2 space shop even out here on the fringes of town where I live is $2500.00 and well up / month. That 6 months breathing space would be more like 15 G's than a few hundred $.

Surely you have the right to live where you wish.

Having visited your area, and recognizing local costs by comparison to some areas of the US, I understand that you are in a more expensive, and notably more affluent area.

One difference may be the conversion factor between the $US and the $CA. 

Another factor is surely the average income in your area, compared the differing areas of the US. 

In some ways we're comparing "Apples and Oranges".

California differs from Louisiana, which differs from West Virginia or New Jersey - and they all differ from Hawaii and Alaska.

 

Prior to driving from Louisiana to Ontario in July, were were advised of $1.50 gasoline, and I was paying $3.25 at home, and $4.29 to $4.89US in New York and Pennsylvania while headed to London, Ontario. 

Then I sat down with some numbers -

The $1.50CA was the price per Litre,

Four (4) Litres was a bit more than a US gallon, and cost $6.00CA.

The Canadian dollar equalled about $0.75US

Then I realized 4 Litres cost $6.00CA and was equal to about $4.50 US for a bit more than a US Gallon.

The outcome was the there was essentially no real difference in true cost per mile,

 ... and Diesel in Canada was lower in cost than 87 octane "Regular Ethanol Unleaded".

 

Not living in the States is surely your choice, preference, and desire, and I wish you well.

I could live happily in several locations, having relocated multiple times during my careers.

I chose southeast Louisiana and the New Orleans area for the many benefits and have never regretted that decision-

and we get to enjoy our old cars all year long.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[alsancle]

A day has passed and our OP has not returned.   I need to start that thread on newbie bad manners.

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

Why don't I live in the States ? Around here 6 months rent of $450 - $600  wouldn't get you enough space to store a suitcase let alone a car. A single garage in a run down part of town is $1200.00 and up. 

Wow!  I was thinking that the $600 quoted for 6 months'

storage was high.  Here in Pennsylvania, there are plenty

of storage facilities, and they tend to be at least that price;

but private garages or barns tend to be $45 to $75 a month,

per car, in a clean, safe, well maintained building.

 

Affordable storage really promotes the hobby.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[TTR]

17 hours ago, Trulyvintage said:

The OP set the criteria for the restorer.

I agree and after re-reading some of the OPs enlightening comments high lighted below, ...

23 hours ago, MKulina said:

It's been a slow process as the restorer works part time and I had limited the monthly spend. 

 

There really wasn't much progress over the last visit, and it had been a year. 

... they seem to suggest this endeavor already had a disaster written all over it from the start, set forth by both parties.

 

Lesson to anyone who reads this and is contemplating a project requiring outside contracting, be it antique vehicle restoration, home building/remodeling, etc:

If you don't have ALL the (realistically) expected/estimated funding (+50% ?) available and put aside before beginning, you probably shouldn't start on it.

And if you do (have the funding), in most cases, you're likely better off buying an already restored vehicle and more so if you buy a really well done and sorted example.

Edited September 20, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Wow!  I was thinking that the $600 quoted for 6 months'

storage was high.  Here in Pennsylvania, there are plenty

of storage facilities, and they tend to be at least that price;

but private garages or barns tend to be $45 to $75 a month,

per car, in a clean, safe, well maintained building.

 

Affordable storage really promotes the hobby.

 

Most of the garages around here have been turned into tiny apartments for 5 or 6 foreign students or temporary foreign workers. They get charged several hundred $ a month each for a space that is barely big enough to sleep. We have a local housing crisis that is turning every square foot of space into someones cash cow / someone elses place to sleep. It has to be seen to be believed. Canada is currently short at least a couple of million homes { we only have an overall population of 37 million people }.

 Cars end up sitting outside more often than not.

Edited September 21, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

22 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Most of the garages around here have been turned into tiny apartments for 5 or 6 foreign students or temporary foreign workers. They get charged several hundred $ a month each for a space that is barely big enough to sleep. We have a local housing crisis that is turning every square foot of space into someones cash cow / someone elses place to sleep. It has to be seen to be believed. Canada is currently short at least a couple of million homes { we only have an overall population of 37 million people }.

 Cars end up sitting outside more often than not.

 

Nobody wants to live there. It's too crowded.

 

/with apologies to Yogi Berra

[alsancle]

A few years ago (pre-lockdown) we were renting a 20x10 unheated in Park City Utah for 175 a month.   Prices have gone way up since then.

 

Currently here in the Peoples Republic,  I can get 20x10 heated for 500 a month.  Unheated for less.

[alsancle]

13 hours ago, TTR said:

I agree and after re-reading some of the OPs enlightening comments high lighted below, ...

... they seem to suggest this endeavor already had a disaster written all over it from the start, set forth by both parties.

 

Lesson to anyone who reads this and is contemplating a project requiring outside contracting, be it antique vehicle restoration, home building/remodeling, etc:

If you don't have ALL the (realistically) expected/estimated funding (+50% ?) available and put aside before beginning, you probably shouldn't start on it.

And if you do (have the funding), in most cases, you're likely better off buying an already restored vehicle and more so if you buy a really well done and sorted example.

 

You are of course correct.  This was a disaster in the making from the beginning (based on very little the OP has shared).

I think if we ever find out what the car is we will further buttress your point.

 

There is blame on both parties in this situation.  60% on the restorer becuase if he is a professional he knows what is going to happen with the limited fund thing.   If he is not a professional, then I'll put 60% on the owner.

[TTR]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

A few years ago (pre-lockdown) we were renting a 20x10 unheated in Park City Utah for 175 a month.   Prices have gone way up since then.

 

Currently here in the Peoples Republic,  I can get 20x10 heated for 500 a month.  Unheated for less.

A friend recently looked into “storage units” in this area and told me (non-A/C 😉) 10 x 20 units are about $200-$300 a month, but most won’t allow non-drivable/-running vehicles inside any unit and many not even in their outdoor spaces.

 

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

There is blame on both parties in this situation.  60% on the restorer becuase if he is a professional he knows what is going to happen with the limited fund thing.   If he is not a professional, then I'll put 60% on the owner.

I agree except whenever something (a blame ?) is to be divided somewhat evenly between two parties, I often say “Well, let’s make it 50/60”. 😜

 

As a child, I was taught never to agree on commitments or make promises (especially financial) you’re not absolutely sure you’ll be able to meet/keep and as a professional(?) restorer I’ve always tried my best to explain/offer “worst case scenarios” to any potential new client before agreeing to their job.

If they feel uncomfortable/-sure at that point and wish to walk away, I know it’s best for both of us, but many (most ?) restorers/shops tend to lure new customers in with all kinds of fancy BS and many, especially first-time, inexperienced car/project owners often fall for it (one could probably fill several libraries with such unhappy stories).

Edited September 21, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

"You can take my car in for the restoration and use it for fill in work when you are not busy". How many times have you heard that one. The customer thinks when a mechanic is not busy he works cheaper.

 

Always ask for a full medical physical of the shop owner's wife. "My wife got sick and I haven't been able to get to your car" It is amazing the number of times I have tracked down a body shop owner in a bar and heard that one. I wonder if OSHA knows.

 

Ten years ago I had my nephew do a major project for me, complete mechanical rebuild. The terms were that we would cash up every Friday. I expected an invoice for labor and materials. He was paid weekly. If work slowed I expected an explanation. If work stopped and I didn't get to spend my money I would be unhappy. I would expect the same terms from anyone. If I am not spending money and see no progress the car and all that goes with it is gone.

 

I once helped finish a car that had been in a body shop for 28 years.

 

One time I called a body shop and told the guy I was coming to pick up two Ford Model A wheels I had dropped off for painting two years before. He said "I don't know why you are so antsy about it." They were in primer.

 

My Dad taught me to learn from the mistakes of others. Show concern for them but avoid empathy.

[Terry Bond]

Op hasnt even visited since he joined and posted.

Terry

[28 Chrysler]

A place can close down quickly.

I took some parts in to a shop that had been open for 5 or so years get chrome plated. 

The short story was they skipped town and were last known to be 150 miles away.

I talked to the landlord and made a deal to come back in 30 days and I could look and see if my parts were still there.

I was told that if no one came back for parts in a week I could take all the parts left behind. (for a small fee)

 

[TTR]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

GASP!!!! What a surprise. Has anything like that ever happened before? ..........Bob

I find it quite interesting how often* in these kinds of cases so many “regulars” appear to hurry to fall over each other offering extensive advise or opinions, even if/when a first-time poster shares very limited and/or vague details to begin with and may not have any real interest in providing more or coming back, especially if/when seeing advise or opinions he/she may not expect/want to hear/read/see.

Talk about not learning from experience/history.

 

*Yes, I admittedly been guilty of it too, but (hopefully) not that “often”. 

 

[alsancle]

Just now, TTR said:

I find it quite interesting how often* in these kinds of cases so many “regulars” appear to hurry to fall over each other offering extensive advise or opinions, even if/when a first-time poster shares very limited and/or vague details to begin with and may not have any real interest in providing more or coming back, especially if/when seeing advise or opinions he/she may not expect/want to hear/read/see.

Talk about not learning from experience/history.

 

*Yes, I admittedly been guilty of it too, but (hopefully) not that “often”. 

 

 

It happens literally every day.  But in fairness to us we are just looking for something interesting to talk about.  I have stopped giving out my incredibly valuable free advice unless the new poster puts some effort in.    Gives that post a fuzzy picture looking for a full appraisal so they can flip something get zero effort from me.

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

But in fairness to us we are just looking for something interesting to talk about. 

And.............There it is. An excuse flap our gums. It's US that that owe HIM a thank you.............Bob

[60FlatTop]

Maybe the person has a shop with a couple of cars backed up and was feeling ill.

 

That old cryptic question "Umm, with a group of you guys what would happen if...." And they scurry away choosing discretion over valor.

[TTR]

On 9/21/2023 at 12:22 PM, alsancle said:

 

... literally every day.  ... we are just looking for something interesting to talk about. 

???

😟

[Gen III Antique Auto]

MKULINA - what state is all this happening in and what car is it?  I'm in MA and may be able to help you.

[victorialynn2]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:02 PM, MKulina said:

This past weekend I went to visit a shop where my car is being worked on.  It's been a slow process as the restorer works part time and I had limited the monthly spend. 

 

There really wasn't much progress over the last visit, and it had been a year.  We talk quite often and he has been telling me he is slowing down and his life is catching up with him. 

 

At what should I pull the car out of there?  It's a horrible time as I having a addition put on the house and the garage here has to be empty.  But I am afraid if he gets worse my car could be stuck there.  I can't afford that. 

 

Anyone have a shop near Orlando that has done them right?

 

Thanks, appreciate any suggestions

Let me know what kind of car it is and what needs to be done. I know a couple Ford guys, a couple Corvair guys, and a body shop.  I’m in the Saint Cloud/Orlando area. If they are not available or don’t have the expertise to work on your car, they may know people who can. It’s a pretty tight car community and most people I’ve met seem to know each other. 
 

I have found asking around at Napa, or other parts stores, can result in some good recommendation for mechanics who work on various old cars, as well as asking local car clubs. Nationally I’ve just had better luck with NAPA. I have also found quite a few clubs on Facebook. (Search car show events, car clubs in groups, classic cars, etc.) Also go to car shows like the ones in Old Town Kissimmee. Ask for the “Mayor” of Old Town. He works on cars also. In a few months I was able to find a network of people to help me with my cars. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)