Collector-car market continues fall from 2021 heights (Don't kill the messenger if you disagree)

[Walt G]

Interesting to read here for me as most is concerned with post WWII era cars that although I like some of them I do not know squat about them . I am not a boy racer type, never was even when younger so cars that have Rally Sport, SS, Z etc designations and titles just aren't my thing. I like full size cars , 4 door hardtops, 4 door sedans, full size station wagons with an automatic transmission and in today's tropical heat has to have working a/c or an a/c unit that can be added without ruining or altering the stock car to much. Different strokes for different folks.  Decades ago I wrote a story titled "Land Yachts" for The Connoisseur magazine that focused mostly on high end antiques ( objects, auctions , people) and it focused on the history of coach built cars to give perspective. ( what else do you think I would write about ? rare salt and pepper shakers or flower pots?)

[Ed Luddy]

28 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

Wasn't only Chevrolet. All the Colonnade-years A-body cars had the rust problem. Cheap steel combined with bad water drainage designs, no rustproofing, and salt killed a lot of those cars before their time.

 

Based on that one would think nice survivors would command a little more respect and value in the old car hobby. The 1973s are, after all, 50 years old now.

 

See my earlier observation about ignorants believing GM didn't build cars after 1972. There are some around here who honestly believe a 69 Camaro is the only car GM ever built. 

 

They may be right. People sure seem to go stupid over them and they're always on hot market lists.

The point was proven to me about 8-9 yrs ago about " GM never made a Chevelle after 72" I went to a Chevelle/ Beaumont only show in my 76 Laguna S-3 most people there sneered at it or totally ignored it. I left after 30 minutes and a few asshat remarks.

[Ed Luddy]

 This is the same as my old car, but I must have deleted all my pictures!

[TerryB]

Walt, as a young guy growing up in the environment I was in, the car was believed to be an extension of you or at least what you thought you were.  Most of us grew up in poor families so your car was your expression of separation from that at times depressing lifestyle.  When I made enough money to afford my first new car, I was not going to buy some 4 door bottom of the line model.  It had to be something that had style and hinted at performance as that is what my friend group was into.  Antique cars were nice to look at but tire burning wheel spin and throaty engine noises was king with us.  A few went the import route but most of us wanted the muscle car look.  It took a long time to get past that and some never did.

[rocketraider]

41 minutes ago, Ed Luddy said:

 

Picture this Colonnade lineup together at a show or cruise night.

 

Chevelle SS/Laguna

Pontiac GTO/CanAM

Olds 442/Hurst Olds 

Buick Century GS

 

Impressive to see them all together, no?

 

At a big cruise night in Lynchburg VA some 20 years ago, we HAD that lineup. A 1975 Laguna, a 1977 CanAM, a 1974 GS Stage 1, and my 1974 Hurst/Olds. And people walked by like they weren't there. The few who knew what they were found them and managed to get them all moved together. 

 

Garondamntee when they fired up to leave people noticed the snotty noise those GM V8s were making, and watched them rumble out of the cruise night one behind the other- Laguna, CanAM, Hurst/Olds and Stage 1. 

 

We had a lineup of Starfires, Grand Prix, 2+2 and Wildcats one night too, and would have had a 65 Impala SS if the owner hadn't needed to leave.

People walked by them too.🙄

 

Some cars it seems are condemned to be ignored and unappreciated, and won't ever be on an "investment" list. That's OK. Keeps them affordable!

 

 

[58L-Y8]

20 hours ago, edinmass said:

Would somebody PLEASE  tell me when the market drops out on a DV 32 Stutz…….. I would like to buy a few of them for $.10 on the dollar.

Ed:

Its already happened...in 1936, after Stutz announced the end of their car production.  We just have unfortunate timing to not have been around to take advantage of the opportunity.  The salvage yard that had the Stutz DV-32 Continental Coupe by Waterhouse waited for us as long as they could.

Steve

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, TerryB said:

Walt, as a young guy growing up in the environment I was in, the car was believed to be an extension of you or at least what you thought you were.  Most of us grew up in poor families so your car was your expression of separation from that at times depressing lifestyle.  When I made enough money to afford my first new car, I was not going to buy some 4 door bottom of the line model.  It had to be something that had style and hinted at performance as that is what my friend group was into.  Antique cars were nice to look at but tire burning wheel spin and throaty engine noises was king with us.  A few went the import route but most of us wanted the muscle car look.  It took a long time to get past that and some never did.

Fine analysis of those times, our motivations then and still today for many.  Attend any cruise night, you will see legions of aging adolescents who have achieve a level of affluence that allows them to indulge those long-ago fantasies.  It also enables them to demonstrate to their peers that they've escaped the penury they experienced as a youth.   

[Buffalowed Bill]

1 hour ago, TerryB said:

Walt, as a young guy growing up in the environment I was in, the car was believed to be an extension of you or at least what you thought you were.  Most of us grew up in poor families so your car was your expression of separation from that at times depressing lifestyle.  When I made enough money to afford my first new car, I was not going to buy some 4 door bottom of the line model.  It had to be something that had style and hinted at performance as that is what my friend group was into.  Antique cars were nice to look at but tire burning wheel spin and throaty engine noises was king with us.  A few went the import route but most of us wanted the muscle car look.  It took a long time to get past that and some never did.

Your point is well taken and is true for many. Some of us who grew up in the 50's and 60's, and never left the decades behind, but our taste and knowledge of automotive history continued to grow as we got older. I would be bored to tears if my knowledge and likes had remained stuck in a single decade. As I've said before I can find cars to like in every decade. 

[TAKerry]

I drove a 77 trans am the other day. Still love it!!

[1912Staver]

I think pre war cars in general may be entering a death spiral. Not the better Brass cars, or the better  true Classics { if you are over 15 years old and you have have to ask , you will probably never know }. But the vast majority of bread and butter , pre war cars. I am only going by the membership in my local early car Vintage Car Club chapter, but it's looking very  " gray " , and the membership seems to dwindle with each passing year. A few under 40 but very few. And no where enough new people of any age to grow the membership. Almost all those earlier cars are going to need new owners / caretakers over the next 20 years or so. I just don't see nearly enough people born in the 1970's or later getting interested enough to take over ownership of the existing stock of pre war cars.

[John348]

I can understand as to why maybe there is a market "dip" with banks offering 5%+ rates on 6 moth CD's maybe possible some potential buyers at auctions are sitting on that discretionary income a little longer. I personally know a collector who sold off 17 car at Harrisburg this past week, (he said it was time to thin things down) I prefer not to say what lots they were, he is a rather private person and I respect that. He used that above logic for the sale. He was getting nothing out of those vehicles sitting in a warehouse., so he felt that might as well take advantage of the guaranteed high interest while he was rethinking his collection.

I myself don't have that luxury to think like that. 

[JV Puleo]

As I see it, if you are going to include cars from the 60s, 70s and 80s in the "antique" definition ALL of the figures will be heavily skewed by the "fad" factor. I wonder what sort of figures you'd get if you only measured cars that all pre-date their owners. No one alive today remembers brass cars on the road and, effectively, that demographic probably now reaches into the mid 30s. No one that wants one of these cars does so because they coveted one when young. The motivation for coveting those cars is completely different from the "muscle car" world and I seriously wonder if they will hold their relative value when the cohort that admired them in their youth passes on. I have an uncle, my mother's older brother, who is still with us at 105. He was born in 1917. He's not interested in cars but, if he were, any car he remembered from the age of 13 would be a 1930 model. Back in the 70s I remember being told that when the "old guys" pass on the price of brass cars would drop like a rock. It didn't. Heck, I bought a PI Rolls when I was 20 years old...something I haven't a snowball's chance in hell of doing today.

Edited July 30, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

 I have had two younger people stop at my garage to deliver things I bought from them online. The were both in the 30-50 range, one last week and one the week before. My garage comfortably holds four cars. I have my '64 Riviera that I bought when I was 29 years old, the car a15 YO. There is my '60 Electra that I bought when I was 50. It was only 40 years old at the time. I have my 1986 Buick Park Ave convertible when I was 62 in 2011, a 25 year old car. Currently in spot number four is the 2005, 18 year old, Cadillac RWD V8 Cadillac STS I bought in January.

 

Both visitors went nuts over the Caddy and paid little attention to the older cars. For me, and many, it is just a car thing. The lines and colors all come together and if your understanding of the mechanicals doesn't frighten you too much you just have to have it.

 

If it was 1950 again and that Duesenberg was sitting in the second rate city used car lot for $450 (almost a months pay for some at the time) I'd be finagling a deal while my Dad looked at me and asked "What do you want that big ark for?" A 15 year old car, again.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

I think pre war cars in general may be entering a death spiral. Not the better Brass cars, or the better  true Classics { if you are over 15 years old and you have have to ask , you will probably never know }. But the vast majority of bread and butter , pre war cars. I am only going by the membership in my local early car Vintage Car Club chapter, but it's looking very  " gray " , and the membership seems to dwindle with each passing year. A few under 40 but very few. And no where enough new people of any age to grow the membership. Almost all those earlier cars are going to need new owners / caretakers over the next 20 years or so. I just don't see nearly enough people born in the 1970's or later getting interested enough to take over ownership of the existing stock of pre war cars.

I have the 26 speedster, 38 Lincoln and now the 29 Buick.  My son age 8 likes the speedster and Buick the best and has started collecting to build a 12 touring.  There is hope. . .

[Dave Henderson]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:17 PM, edinmass said:

Would somebody PLEASE  tell me when the market drops out on a DV 32 Stutz…….. I would like to buy a few of them for $.10 on the dollar.

1. Ed, it was easy one time, we're way too late to the picnic.  When I was at U. Va. in '49 there was a student named Hank Cone who had a DV32 Super Bearcat.  Big battery behind the seat was always dead, I often helped push it to get it started.  Decades later he turned up at a Model A Ford Club meeting and I asked him what ever became of the Bearcat. His answer was that it went to Chicago, for how much? $375.  Did D. Cameron Peck snatch this one up?
   Maybe Walt will know.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Dave Henderson (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

11 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

When I was at U. Va. in '49 there was a student named Hank Cone who had a DV32 Super Bearcat.

Another example of an memorable 18 year old car. It is a sweet spot if you pick the right ones.

 

The number of pre-war cars is fixed. But the number of collectible post-war cars appears to be growing every year.

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:17 PM, edinmass said:

Would somebody PLEASE tell me when the market drops out on a DV 32 Stutz.   I would like to buy a few of them for $.10 on the dollar.

 Well, you know that the market DID drop out

on Stutzes and other Classics.  From the 1930's

and on, they were unwanted, obsolete gas-guzzlers.

Your 10 cents on the dollar would have been too much

to pay!

 

Let's hope they will be appreciated for their beauty

(but not merely for money or pretention) for many decades.

[charlier]

On 7/28/2023 at 4:09 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Also, Hagerty bases almost all their "market knowledge" on insured values and how many cars are insured by them and for what figure. I wonder if they control for people who left the company for another insurer, or sold their car to someone who wasn't insured by Hagerty, or who took their car off the road for some reason. All these could be factors in their conclusions.

 

Given how insurance valuations are determined by what the owner wants them to be, how can those numbers be used to place a value on a vehicle for it's market worth? If one makes up a number for an insurance value isn't the market value, by definition, a made up number as well? 

 

Interesting to note that the "value" of a vehicle factors into the insurance premium one pays. If an owner perceives (or reads in an article) that the "value" of their vehicle is increasing and raises it's insured value doesn't the insurance company benefit financially? Hmmmmm.

 

Anyone else receive their Antique Automobile Insurance bill recently? I did and noticed an 18% INCREASE over last year (which was also a fairly large increase over the prior year).  No changes in the policy what-so-ever and no claims. I wonder if Hagerty will attend at Fall Hershey this year? Might be time to do some comparison shopping with some other companies to see how they compare.

[kfle]

22 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

I think pre war cars in general may be entering a death spiral. Not the better Brass cars, or the better  true Classics { if you are over 15 years old and you have have to ask , you will probably never know }. But the vast majority of bread and butter , pre war cars. I am only going by the membership in my local early car Vintage Car Club chapter, but it's looking very  " gray " , and the membership seems to dwindle with each passing year. A few under 40 but very few. And no where enough new people of any age to grow the membership. Almost all those earlier cars are going to need new owners / caretakers over the next 20 years or so. I just don't see nearly enough people born in the 1970's or later getting interested enough to take over ownership of the existing stock of pre war cars.

Declining club memberships have been discussed in other threads, but I truly believe that there is no correlation between club membership numbers and prewar car ownership.  Younger generations do not like the car clubs as it is a different way of thinking.  Car clubs are very outdated in how they work and the bureaucracy.  I own 10 prewar cars including a few full classics and cars that would qualify for several different clubs.  I am only a member of the HCCA because I do enjoy some of the brass tours with a couple of my cars, but I find very little value and time in the other clubs and do not belong to any 'local' clubs.  I also know several other younger newer owners of prewar cars that are not interesting in joining clubs.   I get together with a group of early car owners for a 1/2 day tour once a month, no formal planning, no membership fees, no newsletters, no hassle.  Just meet up at a starting point, pick where we are going, and drive!  We text with each other and help each other out in between.  I know quite a few people wanting early cars who are under 30 but you will not run across them in traditional 'old car' clubs, websites, etc.  

[JV Puleo]

This is true for many of us who are not all that young. I was disappointed in all the clubs I belonged to when I was in my 20s. Things haven't gotten better.

[TAKerry]

4 hours ago, charlier said:

 

Given how insurance valuations are determined by what the owner wants them to be, how can those numbers be used to place a value on a vehicle for it's market worth? If one makes up a number for an insurance value isn't the market value, by definition, a made up number as well? 

 

Interesting to note that the "value" of a vehicle factors into the insurance premium one pays. If an owner perceives (or reads in an article) that the "value" of their vehicle is increasing and raises it's insured value doesn't the insurance company benefit financially? Hmmmmm.

 

Anyone else receive their Antique Automobile Insurance bill recently? I did and noticed an 18% INCREASE over last year (which was also a fairly large increase over the prior year).  No changes in the policy what-so-ever and no claims. I wonder if Hagerty will attend at Fall Hershey this year? Might be time to do some comparison shopping with some other companies to see how they compare.

I dont think they are really made up values. I would think that the insurance company will insure for a realistic value. Even if someone is willing to pay the premium I doubt a company would insure a 20k car for 100k. My premium has stayed the same for the last 4 or 5 years, only this past year I doubled  the value and it did go up a bit. My reasoning for doing so was watching auctions and classifieds knowing that I could not replace my car for the agreed value I had. In reality its probably still too low!

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, kfle said:

Declining club memberships have been discussed in other threads, but I truly believe that there is no correlation between club membership numbers and prewar car ownership.  Younger generations do not like the car clubs as it is a different way of thinking.  Car clubs are very outdated in how they work and the bureaucracy.  I own 10 prewar cars including a few full classics and cars that would qualify for several different clubs.  I am only a member of the HCCA because I do enjoy some of the brass tours with a couple of my cars, but I find very little value and time in the other clubs and do not belong to any 'local' clubs.  I also know several other younger newer owners of prewar cars that are not interesting in joining clubs.   I get together with a group of early car owners for a 1/2 day tour once a month, no formal planning, no membership fees, no newsletters, no hassle.  Just meet up at a starting point, pick where we are going, and drive!  We text with each other and help each other out in between.  I know quite a few people wanting early cars who are under 30 but you will not run across them in traditional 'old car' clubs, websites, etc.  

 

 

I guess we agree to disagree. To me the club situation is very important for the use of early cars. Unless an individual is quite wealthy and can buy in lots of paid expertise, then learning from more experenced early car people is one of the best ways to learn about early machines. And a early car focused club cuts to the chase. It's a very steep learning curve once you get involved with say pre 1925 cars. Similar in concept, but so very different from post 1925 cars. 

 Some can and do learn things the hard way...on their own. Our friend J.V. Puleo leaves most of us in awe of his take the bull by the horns and just solve the problem abilities.  But many run up against seemingly impossible roadblocks and give up on early cars, or even hobby cars altogether.

 Not to mention networking with others for parts re- production. And the whole tour situation. Other than touring with a group { usually club based events } or trailering to a show , just what does one do with a 1918 or so Buick , Cole, Cadillac or anything else in the pre 1925 catagory ? The odd jaunt to a local park or very close cars and coffee ? It takes more than acouple of 15 mile drives a Summer to work the bugs out of a pre 1925 car. 100 mile plus tours with club support seem to me to be the only practical way for most of us to get to " know thy beast ".

Once the clubs wither away, early cars become for the most part dusty relics at the far inside of the garage. In my humble opinion of course. I guess all your friends have the extra drive , ambition and resources to go it on their own. I am just a very average person with a strong Brass Era bug. Doing it all on my own just doesn't seem possible in my case.

Edited July 31, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

. . . just what does one do with a 1918 or so Buick , Cole, Cadillac or anything else in the pre 1925 catagory ?. . .

Simple answer, you drive it.  Growing up between grandparents location and our home, AACA MTFCA and HCCA there was always meetings and tours.  Fast forward to my time in FL and a few decades and there isn't the availability there was.  Tours are a good ways to travel to and unless it is a special tour it may not be worth the drive.  As far as club members well if you are lucky enough to have a mentor in your area then most likely you will spend time with them outside the club regardless.  

 

I drive and use the cars as much as possible more now that the roads are friendlier.  Tours are great and if there is something close enough we go.  This year we did the speedster reunion in Nebraska and last year the mtfca national tour.  Maybe a local group will turn up maybe not.  Until then we drive usually being out at least twice a week.

 

[alsancle]

Highest and best use for the cars is driving them.  The clubs are crucial for organizing the tours.  There are also some non club very specific tours like the Duesenberg tour and the Bentley tour that are very well attended and I personally think drive prices for those marques.    I know a number of guys that want a Duesenberg just so they can be part of the tour.   But of course, those are expensive cars and expensive tours and not really something applicable to the broader market.

 

I have a friend that was thinking of organizing a one day tour this fall in New England.  From his shop to a friends shop 60 miles away for lunch and then back again.  Open to any pre-1970 car.  Fun idea.  A lot of work, even for a just small tour.

 

 

[kfle]

3 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

just what does one do with a 1918 or so Buick , Cole, Cadillac or anything else in the pre 1925 catagory ?

You just get in the car and go for a drive!  No club or formal tour needed, just take the day and drive.  If I cant fix it on the side of the road then that is what Hagerty road side assistance is for.  I am not saying there is not a place for clubs, but I still reiterate my point that you cant correlate club membership to interest in pre war cars or even value.  I still work, cant make time for club meetings and weekday morning coffees, and dont have time for a 3 day tour during the weekdays, yet I still have lots of connections and can find what I need when necessary.  There are lots of social media places that can be utilized for pre war car support.  

 

[1912Staver]

5 hours ago, kfle said:

You just get in the car and go for a drive!  No club or formal tour needed, just take the day and drive.  If I cant fix it on the side of the road then that is what Hagerty road side assistance is for.  I am not saying there is not a place for clubs, but I still reiterate my point that you cant correlate club membership to interest in pre war cars or even value.  I still work, cant make time for club meetings and weekday morning coffees, and dont have time for a 3 day tour during the weekdays, yet I still have lots of connections and can find what I need when necessary.  There are lots of social media places that can be utilized for pre war car support.  

 

 

I have done just that for many years, { almost 50 years of longer trips in down at the heels British sports cars } including a number of Vancouver B.C. to California Vintage racing events , but usually in something like a 40 + year old MGA rather than a pre 1925 car. Changed a head gasket at my camp site at Laguna Seca during the historics one year. Too much heat and higher speed driving near Gilroy on the 101. But for that car I could still buy a headset at the local parts store { same engine as a MGB , more or less } . It was after all only 40 or so years old at the time. Changed a 1/2  shaft U joint on a GT6 at the side of the Highway in Eastern Washington, once again a common part from a small town parts store got us rolling again. But if you need anything on a 100 or so year old car , 1000 miles away from home you are going to be in a bit of a fix. At least on a club tour there is generally a trouble truck to get you back to your tow vehicle and trailer.

 Anyway I get your point.

But I still think the future is cloudy for a good many pre war cars. Not high dollar machines, mostly the non - mainstream { read non - Ford } average and lower end { 40 - 45 M.P.H. comfort range } cars. Break a ring and pinion or take out a babbit rod bearing and crank and the repair will be a very good chunk of what the machine is worth. May just get brought home and pushed to the back of the garage. It seems that with each passing year fewer and fewer people have the space , skill, time and $ to restore or maintain their own car . Daily driver or vintage. 

P.S., you have some very nice Cole's. Just way beyond my pocket.

Edited August 1, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Guest]

Parts availability isn't what it used to be.  Pre corona stores had begun to remove a inventory opting for shipping to get it there in the afternoon or next morning.  Now post corona with supply issues and shipping costs you are better off just ordering yourself.  These days they often don't have parts for a vw or 350 Chevy!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Quick quiz, can you spot the non investor here?

 

Person one has some extra cash, they work in a company that offers a 401K plan so they opt to increase their contribution to the max legal limit.

 

Person two is working with a financial services firm and directs them on a portfolio of stocks, bonds, annuities and cash.

 

Person three saved up $20k and decides to purchase a nice 63 Lincoln sedan.  Intended use is weekend drives, the occasional show or AACA tour.  Ok, $25k, it needs something, maybe brakes, maybe tires and...

 

Person four buys a three family house and is ready to deal with the joys of being a landlord in return for tenant funded equity and perhaps even a tidy income stream.

 

Most will ace this.  Bonus points, can you identify the crazy one here? 😉😁

Edited August 1, 2023 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[CChinn]

Person 3 who is everyone on this forum!😀

[Pfeil]

Rule # 1. It's not what you drive, it's what you drive home to.

[39BuickEight]

1 minute ago, Pfeil said:

Rule # 1. It's not what you drive, it's what you drive home to.

Or, it’s not what’s in your driveway, it’s what’s in your garage.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

1 hour ago, CChinn said:

Person 3 who is everyone on this forum!😀

Well yeah but I was thinking we are or should be getting a huge return in fun.  In my state at least, guy #4 is the crazy one!! 😉😁

[CarNucopia]

22 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

 

 

I guess we agree to disagree. To me the club situation is very important for the use of early cars. Unless an individual is quite wealthy and can buy in lots of paid expertise, then learning from more experenced early car people is one of the best ways to learn about early machines. And a early car focused club cuts to the chase. It's a very steep learning curve once you get involved with say pre 1925 cars. Similar in concept, but so very different from post 1925 cars. 

 Some can and do learn things the hard way...on their own.

I totally agree with you that there's a need to share knowledge and have a sense of community among specific car-type owners. What I think you might be missing is that this takes place outside of the “Club" setting. As much as I dislike Facebook, the car model specific groups on there contain a wealth of knowledge, are populated with people looking to help and are free. I own five cars that were never sold in the US. Parts availability can be challenging and most repair manuals are not in English. I'd be lost without Facebook. I can ask a question and get an answer or ten within a few hours. Instead of paying club dues, group members make a contribution by adding to the knowledge base available.

Edited August 1, 2023 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

While I generally agree that fb is just another (good) netwotking tool not unlike AACA, one needs to assess the "help" as it is sometimes expert and other times... well, less so.

 

A debate formed this weekend on a couple Mercedes R107 fb pages.  Maybe 10 or 12 participants "knew" the bumpers on these cars were chrome because they really shined nicely.  Really?  Dead wrong and people who know routinely polish or have deep scratches polished out professionally.  First detail that comes to mind, but you get the picture.  Just don't take timing chain advice from those "experts"...

 

I know it is more likely the rarer the car the more knowledgeable the owner is apt to be but fb should still be taken with a grain of salt, or maybe a pinch of salt... 

 

All that said, it seems to help the hobby overall for sure.

[Paul Dobbin]

On 7/28/2023 at 7:53 PM, avgwarhawk said:

Can't be any hotter than it is now! 

Yes it can  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul Dobbin]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:58 AM, Pfeil said:

Maybe you would like this 68 Pontiac engineering exercise.

  There was a body shop in St. Petersburg, Fl that built a "Transmino", which was more streamlined than this one.  The shop

   was D & G Collision.

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

  There was a body shop in St. Petersburg, Fl that built a "Transmino", which was more streamlined than this one.  The shop

   was D & G Collision.

Pontiac's first one,

The first two black and white pictures was 40+ years ago. Originally standard interior Catalina with a 280hp 2bbl 389, 4 speed Hydra-Matic. A parts chaser in the Pontiac Engineering garage after marketing/product planning got through with it. Something happened during the restoration as it turned into a 300hp 4bbl, 389 with a Bonneville interior.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Lahti35]

Didn't Haggerty send out letters a year or two ago urging people to increase their coverage? 

 

I wish someone would tell the owners of a few cars I'm watching advertised at 2x their value that they need to drop the price, maybe I'll send along the Hagerty info and see how fast it gets me shut down. 😁

[John348]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:25 PM, Lahti35 said:

Didn't Haggerty send out letters a year or two ago urging people to increase their coverage? 

 

I wish someone would tell the owners of a few cars I'm watching advertised at 2x their value that they need to drop the price, maybe I'll send along the Hagerty info and see how fast it gets me shut down. 😁

The insured coverage to repair a vehicle can easily exceed insured value with the cost of materials today. That was basis behind the letter. A vehicle is insured for $15,000 and might require $20,000 paint job which is common and it will end up getting totaled because of the difference. The insurance company then owns the vehicle and will auction it off to recoup their losses. Nothing personal, only business. 

Not about what it is worth, its about the agreed value to repair