Mascot or no mascot? - (radiator caps)

[pmhowe]

There is one aspect of radiator mascots that needs to be considered: Remember the first time you drove your car, with the mascot in place. Or, take your wife, son, daughter, niece, nephew, friend, whomever for a first ride in your car. Later, ask them what they remember. You will find that they will remember seeing the hood ornament as an important part of the experience. They may not remember how the gearshift was used, or the fact that it has mechanical brakes, or a host of other things you and I hold important, but they will remember looking through the windshield, viewing the long hood, and seeing the mascot leading them down the road.

 

Of course, you may encounter the occasional Philistene who says, “Geeze, what a rattletrap”.

 

Phil

[edinmass]

11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I, for one, am pretty sick of civilians looking at my Lincoln's greyhound and saying, "Hey, nice Jag!"

They probably thought it was a jaguar because there was oil on the ground, or a tow truck next to it.

[Matt Harwood]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

They probably thought it was a jaguar because there was oil on the ground, or a tow truck next to it.

Yeah. Both are true:

 

 

 

[alsancle]

I really need to find the article on this particular mascot.   It is a great story.     The seller was joking so I don't have to give it back to him if I'm not keeping it on the car.   Ed, of course, is not joking but I can ignore him.

[BillinMd]

12 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Yeah. Both are true:

 

 

 

Hey Matt

That maroon Jag looks great!😄

[TAKerry]

As an owner of 'later' model cars, I think anything with an exposed radiator cap should have one. Something I almost expect to see on a pre war car.

[Mark Wetherbee]

I’m with Matt’s assessment too, keeping it on the car all the time is a bit tricky. About the same time I was getting my car on the road again, an archer mascot was stolen right off a car at Hershey in a crowd and when the owner was there from what I heard… since then I keep mine on more sparingly than I might have. I don’t know if my car originally had the flat cap or a mascot fitted but I had the mascot to put on a reproduction cap for use and hunted down the original flat cap. Then there’s my go-to accessory which I use most which has recently been given the name “Pudgy” (because let’s face it, following man’s best friend around is a little nicer than staring at a naked guy’s butt)

It’s definitely a decision made by the circumstances of that day…

 

[rocketraider]

Lincoln Greyhound 

 

Jaguar leaping kittycat

 

Only similarity I see is both are leaping forward.

 

But to the ign'ant, I suppose they all look the same.

 

These stories of bold theft disturb and distress me. I have always liked to believe we as car people are better than that. I guess not.

[Mark Wetherbee]

Glenn, my dad and I setup at Hershey for several years and every year something went missing that we noticed when we were repacking. Since we setup together but both had different stuff we were pretty good at keeping track of what sold so we knew who had more $$$ to spend on something else we’d see. We also kept an eye on the better quality stuff for that reason.
 

Whenever you have large crowds and lots of cash changing hands you’ll always find some of those people who are dishonest scum… 

[alsancle]

Funny Jag came up.   I wonder if it was an option on the 150?  I saw one and thought it looked out of place.

 

Here is with and without.

 

 

 

[Cookie Man]

Here is the story AJ

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, Cookie Man said:

Here is the story AJ

 

Darryl thank you!    The story references Mark Young and Peter Woyen at Hershey.  Mark passed earlier this year and was such a great guy and wonderful asset to other Stearns Knight owners.

[alsancle]

I found my copy which is a bit easier to read.

 

 

[Gunsmoke]

I've always been a fan of radiator "mascots", but only sitting on a shelf as display curiosities and examples of car owners penchant for wanting to personalize their car, sometimes destroying the style and intentions of the original design. TexRiv said "Prewar cars with exterior radiator caps were designed for mascot type ornaments". I disagree with this view, in fact most initial design concepts right through to production did not have "mascots". For example the 1931 Chrysler 8's were designed to look long low and sleek, even to the point of a body colored radiator shell, and the modest rad cap was low with a couple of very modest wings to imply streamlining and ease removal. Mid year, some marketing genius decided to create the "Gazelle Mascot" as a dealer installed accessory, and they became a popular add-on. But they were problematic, easy to steal, prongs broke off easily, and pitting often hurt their appearance. Very few originals survive in decent condition. I plan to use the original winged cap on my Roadster, think it is all that is needed on a great looking car.  

[Guest]

My $.02 the wings without the gazelle detract.

[BillinMd]

1 hour ago, Gunsmoke said:

I've always been a fan of radiator "mascots", but only sitting on a shelf as display curiosities and examples of car owners penchant for wanting to personalize their car, sometimes destroying the style and intentions of the original design. TexRiv said "Prewar cars with exterior radiator caps were designed for mascot type ornaments". I disagree with this view, in fact most initial design concepts right through to production did not have "mascots". For example the 1931 Chrysler 8's were designed to look long low and sleek, even to the point of a body colored radiator shell, and the modest rad cap was low with a couple of very modest wings to imply streamlining and ease removal. Mid year, some marketing genius decided to create the "Gazelle Mascot" as a dealer installed accessory, and they became a popular add-on. But they were problematic, easy to steal, prongs broke off easily, and pitting often hurt their appearance. Very few originals survive in decent condition. I plan to use the original winged cap on my Roadster, think it is all that is needed on a great looking car.  

That '31 CG in the Sotheby's Monterey sale looks terrific with the ornament.

Gorgeous automobile as well.

[1935Packard]

That's a cool story, AJ.  If you have the one original one, that's worth using it (but watching it carefully!).

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:

That's a cool story, AJ.  If you have the one original one, that's worth using it (but watching it carefully!).

Orin,  mine is a reproduction.  I'm not sure who has the original one.  I'll have to ask Peter.

[Cookie Man]

Mark had the original a few years ago.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, Cookie Man said:

Mark had the original a few years ago.

If it gets offered for sale, I would be interested.

[marcapra]

I think the difference between a mascot and a hood ornament is the radiator cap on the former.  Chrysler always had the wings as their ornament lasting even to today as a logo at least.  And Dodge got the ram sometime in the early 30s.  Desoto had the flying goddess until 1948, and Plymouth had the Mayflower ship.  

 

 

 

[yachtflame]

I have an original numbered Goddess on my 1930 LaSalle. I keep it on all the time with the exception of shows. I made a replacement unit using a JC Whitney reproduction that I switch to when in crowds. If it gets stolen, I’m out the cap and a $75 reproduction.

[60FlatTop]

On the Jaguar comments, I bought a 1951 Jaguar Mark VII Saloon in Federal Way, Washington and had it shipped to my home in western New York. It had very little badging and the hood ornament was inside.

 

The driver said he had never hauled a car that attracted so much attention. Everyone asked what kind of car it was so he told me he started asked people what they thought it was.

Standing in my garage at 1 AM after a harrowing cross country trip and obviously drained the driver said "Most people thought it was a Bentley...... What's a Bentley?"

[Brass is Best]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:39 AM, tcslr said:

Duesenberg would look odd - to me- without its mascot.  The think the standard winged 8 on 30-31-32 Buicks looks quite nice - clean.

The winged cap on 29-30 Chryslers looks very nice and clean - to me. I like the impala but like the minimalist wings better.

Bugatti elephant is a bit much but certainly iconic.  I think it looks 'better' without it.

Bentley, Jaguar, Hispano Suiza stork - that is cool.  better with.

Not so much the quail on Model As.

The Duesenberg Model J was designed without a hood ornament. The idea was if you didn't know what the car was then you were not in the know. In other words, you were a moron. But owners complained about having to constantly tell everybody, everywhere what kind of car it was. So, they made a hood ornament. Gordon Buehrig designed it. The requirement for the design was it had to be cheap and easy to make. 

[PONTIAC1953]

I bought my 1953 Pontiac Chieftain Custom Catalina in 1973, when I was just 17 years old, the lighted hood ornament was as shown in the image of the 1953 Pontiac Dealer's showroom album, but after 20 years of weather in Santa Monica, Calif. the ornament was completely dull, pitted, the amber head was riddled with stress cracks or crazing, and the twin tailfins were gone, but it still lit up when I turned on the park lights or headlights, I loved see the lighted hood ornament head at nights, whenever the fuse might blow and the light went out, I had to stop asap and replace the blown fuse, had to keep seeing the hood ornament lit up like it was my guide, leading me down the road.

[alsancle]

42 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

The Duesenberg Model J was designed without a hood ornament. The idea was if you didn't know what the car was then you were not in the know. In other words, you were a moron. But owners complained about having to constantly tell everybody, everywhere what kind of car it was. So, they made a hood ornament. Gordon Buehrig designed it. The requirement for the design was it had to be cheap and easy to make. 

 

I was going to mention that I much prefer the 1929 version of the Model J front end setup to the 1931 version that every car has been restored to.

 

The black car is the way every Duesenberg was delivered in 1929 (minus the dumb driving lights).  The green is what every one of them was restored to including the added supercharger pipes.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Going back to the original question; though I like the knight mascot, I think the car looks better without it...

[Gunsmoke]

The desire of owners to place "mascots" on their cars may have stemmed from car companies often being very timid in denoting what the vehicle was. Perhaps no better example than the ID badge on the 1931 Chrysler CD8, a very expensive car (about $1500-$2000 for a Roadster compared to $500 for Ford/Chev), but utilizing this tiny Chrysler badge, that can only be read from about 2 feet away. It is lightly larger than a quarter dollar, and lettering is not highlighted in any way. As indicated previously, the "winged rad cap" had been a Chrysler standard for years. From the rear, the only identifier was CHRYSLER in the stop/taillight. I'm sure many of you also have very pricey cars that had very little ID marks on them, sometimes only on hubcaps. Chrysler used a cryptic C on theirs up to 1931, and later Chrysler Eight..

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[mrspeedyt]

7 hours ago, marcapra said:

 

 

here's the 41 de soto hood ornament... similar to your slightly newer one.

[TexRiv_63]

30 minutes ago, Gunsmoke said:

The desire of owners to place "mascots" on their cars may have stemmed from car companies often being very timid in denoting what the vehicle was. Perhaps no better example than the ID badge on the 1931 Chrysler CD8, a very expensive car (about $1500-$2000 for a Roadster compared to $500 for Ford/Chev), but utilizing this tiny Chrysler badge, that can only be read from about 2 feet away. It is lightly larger than a quarter dollar, and lettering is not highlighted in any way. As indicated previously, the "winged rad cap" had been a Chrysler standard for years. From the rear, the only identifier was CHRYSLER in the stop/taillight. I'm sure many of you also have very pricey cars that had very little ID marks on them, sometimes only on hubcaps. Chrysler used a cryptic C on theirs up to 1931, and later Chrysler Eight..

 

 

Are you sure that emblem is not missing a backing plate?

[Captain Harley]

Reference the theft of hood ornaments.  Some years back I read about a Mercedes owner (modern version) who was tired of people steeling his ornament.  So he devised a new ornament with "razor blade" add on's.  He eventually found blood all over his ornament one day.  A lawyer friend told him to stop or he could get in big trouble.🫢

 

Capt. Harley😉

 

"Skirts are for Women and not Car Fenders"

[Gunsmoke]

TexRiv asked "Are you sure that emblem is not missing a backing plate?". Yes, the small badge is all that these cars wore in 1931. Here is photo of the bits, the badge has a square boss on back side that goes thru square hole in shell and keeps it level, the square holed washers go on inside of shell to bring flush with end of boss, and screw and lock washer go in from inside of shell. In order to remove badge, the radiator has to be removed from shell. The larger badge you show with the blue oval background was used on early models, but not in 1931 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

5 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

I know of another collection that has very limited tours today for the same reason.

I was told by an AACA tour group that I should expect some damage after a very rude woman broke a mirror off of one of my cars. After I asked her not to squeeze into the place she was squeezing into. Now I limit the size of groups. I also give a talk about car etiquette before letting groups come in.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Brass is Best (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

1936 DeSoto

[60FlatTop]

When A Cadillac Goddess is connected to the hood latch I can't open one without a big approving smile.

[CHuDWah]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:39 AM, tcslr said:

Duesenberg would look odd - to me- without its mascot.  The think the standard winged 8 on 30-31-32 Buicks looks quite nice - clean.

The winged cap on 29-30 Chryslers looks very nice and clean - to me. I like the impala but like the minimalist wings better.

Bugatti elephant is a bit much but certainly iconic.  I think it looks 'better' without it.

Bentley, Jaguar, Hispano Suiza stork - that is cool.  better with.

Not so much the quail on Model As.

 

The quail was a Ford-authorized accessory to symbolize the quick acceleration of the Model A.  If you've ever flushed a covey, you can understand.  And the car is pretty quick for a low-priced 4 cylinder (up to about 30 mph ).

[jeff_a]

Here's a radiator mascot that's more of a motometer ornament. It was only supplied to Peerless dealers with high sales records, according to a Canadian auction company. As you know, auction catalogs never exaggerate. I find this tasteful, circa 1924.

...

 

Here's a circa-1927 original Peerless Eagle radiator mascot. American Arrow used to make a repro in stainless steel of very high quality, and a firm in Irvine, CA has a bronze version slightly less detailed than the original. By 1926....there was a "radimeter" on the instrument panel and a motometer was redundant.

 

...

 

Here is the bronze version:

Edited August 1, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)