How do you guys feel about "fixed up" cars?

[Rivguy]

I don't mean rat rods, or beaters, or something immersed in "patina." I guess these used to be called "works in progress." A guy buys a car that he wants and can afford, that needs work, and then he goes to work. Fixes what it needs to run safely, then starts to clean it up and make it look as presentable as he can. Most of these are almost always totally DIY.

The point is to improve the car over time, working with what you've got. Motors can be overhauled. Missing parts can be found and replaced. Old chrome can be polished, body work can be done, existing paint can be buffed out and touched up, upholstery can be cleaned up and repaired.

 

Most restorations start by completely disassembling a car then building it back from the frame up, with everything rebuilt, refurbished, and renewed. I suppose that this would be considered the correct approach. But a lot of guys know that they don't have the resources; time, money, space, enthusiasm, etc. and if they blow that car apart it will probably never be put back together. By them at least. Parts Car!

 

As long as they respect the car and don't butcher and modify the body. Or change the drivetrain, or throw out the interior and replace it with Toyota bucket seats, they have saved and preserved a car that they can pass on to someone who might want to go further in it's rehabilitation.

 

Is this just an old fashioned and unacceptable notion?

[58L-Y8]

"Is this just an old fashioned and unacceptable notion?"

 

Not at all!  It's still a completely viable approach for a substantial majority of old car enthusiasts to practice!  If more would take the "work-in-progress" approach rather than the ambitious project-complete disassembly of the cars, not only would there be more functional, presentable and usable old cars than the legions of disassembled failed project populating the sale sites such as eBay, Craigslist, et al. 

[Larry Schramm]

Your description is IMO the smart way to go.  That way you can learn about your car and keep improving it and enjoying the ride.

 

As for too many cars complete restorations start by disassembling the vehicle and it never gets put back together.   They are then sold for pennies on the dollar or as scrap, or parted out. 

 

Here is one that I bought and am currently in the process of putting back together because it is a 1908 2 cylinder Buick.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

15 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

Is this just an old fashioned and unacceptable notion?

Hope not, with a young family it’s all I have the capacity to do these days

[F&J]

47 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

and make it look as presentable as he can. Most of these are almost always totally DIY.

The point is to improve the car over time, working with what you've got.

This is what blue collar teens did back in the 50s and 60s.  We had way more fun with those patched up old cars than somebody who spends 100k+ on a resto then has to buy a big fancy truck and trailer to drag it to some distant show for "recognition". 

 

this fixer-upper approach may be the only hope for all those abandoned prewar projects that are flooding the market now that boomers are dying off or realize that they will never do anything with with them (and want to downsize/move to Florida, etc

 

These survivor cars and trucks in my area get way more smiling lookers that showcars do.  I think it may be that the onlookers can't relate to some showqueen, but the fixer-upper looks very appealing and more like ''reality"?  

 

nobody in my area drives stock prewars on the roads here anymore. 10 years ago there would be a few.  I live on a main road, and only saw one this year, but have seen many rods and modified cars.  At least I can get to see prewars out where they belong.  Rodders use their cars, that is just reality here where i am.

Edited July 10, 2022 by F&J (see edit history)

[CChinn]

Rivguy, I would hope that what you describe is the rule and not the exception. What one sees on those TV car shows of the complete disassembly/restoration of a car are more costly and time consuming for many on this forum.  Do those TV programs show reality or just “Reality TV”?

Edited July 10, 2022 by CChinn
Add Rivguy (see edit history)

[Rivguy]

Thanks for all the replies. I got the idea to post this thread because when I go to the "Cars for sale, not mine" forum there are often comments that disparage the idea of fixing up a car that will probably never be fully restored. I know that everyone has different expectations and tastes in this hobby, and that they do change with age and circumstance. Hey, it's a hobby and we are doing this for fun, I am supportive of new people coming into the hobby working at a level that they can afford. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

The need to even ask that question is insulting and indicates how out of touch some are.  I, for one,  NEVER WANT a perfect car.  Never owned a new one .  It is ok if some do.  

 

  Ben

[keiser31]

You mean to tell me there are cars out there that people own that AREN'T fixer uppers?

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 Never owned a new one .  It is ok if some do.  

 

  Ben

 

I just ordered a new Silverado 3/4 ton.  The first new vehicle that I have ever owned and I have owned a lot.  Should be in sometime this month.

[Pfeil]

How do you guys feel about "fixed up" cars?

 

This guy is from another planet.

 

[Frank DuVal]

I consider restored cars to be FIXED UP! The manufacturer did not do it, so it must have been fixed up sometime after it left the factory. What's the question?

[keithb7]

I’ve been fixing up my 1938 Plymouth since I bought it 3.5 years ago. I’ve put plates on it every year and driven it. Every winter I tackle projects. Its been a very fun and rewarding project. I’ve yet to touch bodywork and paint. Not sure I ever will. I have done a ton of other work to it.  I’ve learned so much. Approaching 3,500 miles since I bought it. The car has never been restored. The odometer just rolled over in June. Back to zero. I’ve personally rebuilt the engine, clutch & tranny. Drive shaft. Axles. Brakes. Cooling system.  Electrical and lots more. 

It’s been a wonderful journey. Anyone who has not personally rebuilt an old sick car is really missing  out. 

 

I’d say me and the car are pretty “close” at this point. 
 

Edited July 11, 2022 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

8 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

"Is this just an old fashioned and unacceptable notion?"

 

Not at all!  It's still a completely viable approach for a substantial majority of old car enthusiasts to practice!  If more would take the "work-in-progress" approach rather than the ambitious project-complete disassembly of the cars, not only would there be more functional, presentable and usable old cars than the legions of disassembled failed project populating the sale sites such as eBay, Craigslist, et al. 

I believe the "Work in Progress" owner had more money to start with and bought a better hobby car. There will always be project car builders that will never drive the finished car, but driving the car may not be their goal. 

[Digger914]

 

9 hours ago, Rivguy said:

A guy buys a car that he wants and can afford, that needs work, and then he goes to work. Fixes what it needs to run safely, then starts to clean it up and make it look as presentable as he can.

This is the way I started and this is the way I do it now. 

I've only done one complete ground up restoration, finished it in time to show it at MG 2001. In the spring of 2002, I was rammed by 40 ton of tractor trailer hauling rock in a construction zone and it was a couple of years before I could change my own oil again. 

The difference between the way I started and the way I do it now is that now I have more time, more tools, better tools, better work area. the internet and I know my limitations.

[Ford Fan]

I always thought the $100k + restorer was the lunatic fringe of the hobby.

"Piece them together with respect  and keep them running" has always been my operating principle.

While I'm out and about enjoying my cars, the nit-pickers are hovering over their 4-wheeled "investments", protecting them from the rest of the world. 

 Where's the fun in that?

 

 

 

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

7 hours ago, Rivguy said:

...when I go to the "Cars for sale, not mine" forum there are often comments that disparage the idea of fixing up a car that will probably never be fully restored. 

I've never interpreted any comments in that manner.

When the cars for sale don't belong to any forum posters,

people critique the car--pointing out rarity, or features they

like, or incorrect items, or sometimes saying that one isn't

worth restoration financially--but they don't oppose correct

improvements of its condition. 

[58L-Y8]

7 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I believe the "Work in Progress" owner had more money to start with and bought a better hobby car. There will always be project car builders that will never drive the finished car but driving the car may not be their goal. 

I know those fellows as well, perpetually working on some vehicle that was hopelessly rough to start with.  When ask if they can hardly wait to drive it, they admit they'll probably sell it as soon as its finished.  Apparently, they derive greater satisfaction from the restoration process than the prospect of driving the car when fully restored.

[kar3516]

6 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

I know those fellows as well, perpetually working on some vehicle that was hopelessly rough to start with.  When ask if they can hardly wait to drive it, they admit they'll probably sell it as soon as its finished.  Apparently, they derive greater satisfaction from the restoration process than the prospect of driving the car when fully restored.

My dad always liked designing and building tools to work on his early V8 Fords as much or more than he liked actually working on the cars...

[Buffalowed Bill]

IMO the idea that everything had to be restored is an outmoded concept. It was the predominant philosophy during the two decades that predated the 90's. A period of time that I like to call the Golden Age of the hobby. That idea began to die out during the 90's, as we the Baby Boomers began to age, and the cost of restoration began to escalate. As the boomers (the last car crazy generation) continued to age, they began to walk away from the hobby. That led to a plateauing of the value of most antique cars. Cost of restoration vs car value was suddenly turned upside-down. 

 

For the last two decades+ we have been dealing with the reshuffling of the goals of the hobby. As part of this process the history of the car, and that of a particular car, have become an important precept as dictated by real world considerations. Thankfully, preservation of the original car has gradually became a more important part of the hobby. History, the story of how, when, where and by whom, has allowed those of us who cherish originality, a place of refuge from the restores, restomoders, customizers and ratrodders. 

 

I hope that I don't come off sounding too smug, when I say I'm thankful that I live in the mild  part of the Pacific NW where the need for AC is not an imperative. Coupled with a large surviving supply of original cars, it makes enjoying the original car easy to do. 

[hidden_hunter]

22 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Cost of restoration vs car value was suddenly turned upside-down. 

It seems to be a lot more common in the US having shops do the work compared to here 

 

What I’ll never understand is people having shops do the work and then make it sound like they personally did it - each to their own I guess 

[marcapra]

I bought a 48 DeSoto back in 1980.  The engine had never been rebuilt and the car had never been re-painted.  The car had such a bad engine it wouldn't start about a week after I bought it.  So I rebuilt the engine in an afternoon auto shop class.  Then I made the bad decision to do a ground up restoration when I didn't have the time, money, or expertise.  Now I'm retired and have the time and the money and a good helper.  We took the body off because I didn't think I could do the work on my back.  Making good progress now.  

[marcapra]

[Dandy Dave]

This old truck is the epitomy of the subject at hand. Worth a total frame off restoration? No. Absolutely not. No profit at the other end if one did. It is a rolling piece of preservation that turns more heads at a show that a 100 shiny ones all lined up. Now that equals fun in my book. 😁 The trend is headed this way more and more from what I've seen in the recent past. Dandy Dave!

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Guest]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:00 PM, Larry Schramm said:

...Here is one that I bought and am currently in the process of putting back together because it is a 1908 2 cylinder Buick...

 

 Not to be sarcastic, But,

What I see is a inventory of parts that are in storage.

 You will never see it running if you don't going and do something.

 

(Meant to motivate you! 😁) Good luck!

 

 

On 7/10/2022 at 5:00 PM, Larry Schramm said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

33 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

 

 Not to be sarcastic, But,

What I see is a inventory of parts that are in storage.

 You will never see it running if you don't going and do something.

 

(Meant to motivate you! 😁) Good luck!

 

 

 

 

This is a picture from last fall.  I have a lot more attached to the chassis, but the problem is if I do not have the part, I have to have it made which takes time.  I hope to have the chassis running this summer.  Kind of close, but no cigar yet. 

 

I will try to post a more current picture later.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

5 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

This old truck is the epitomy of the subject at hand. Worth a total frame off restoration? No. Absolutely not. No profit at the other end if one did. It is a rolling piece of preservation that turns more heads at a show that a 100 shiny ones all lined up. Now that equals fun in my book. 😁 The trend is headed this way more and more from what I've seen in the recent past. Dandy Dave!

 

I've shown this car on here before but it fits the original question. It's a poor man's Packard, a 1940 110 Business Coupe. It had 40,000 original miles on it when I bought it (47,500 now). It had an amateur repaint years ago. The engine has had a valve job. The brakes have been rebuilt. The running boards have been restored. The wheels were restored before the new radial WWs were installed. The cost of a frame-off restoration would be double it's completed value. It gets as much attention or more at shows than many high value restorations/ restomods. I have a couple of trailer queens and have owned a trophy winning fire truck. The Packard is the most enjoyable.

[ejboyd5]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:00 PM, Larry Schramm said:

 

This photograph may well have been purposefully posed to illustrate the divide between today's youth and older cars.

[TexRiv_63]

I drove nothing but "fixed up cars" from age 15 to age 35 when I bought my first new family car which was primarily for my wife. I continued to drive fixed up cars for the rest of my work years and still do with my hobby cars today.

[Larry Schramm]

2 hours ago, ejboyd5 said:

This photograph may well have been purposefully posed to illustrate the divide between today's youth and older cars.

 

Actually that is my son who came to the shop to help me with the car assembly.  We were just taking a break.  Currently his interest is in the 1915 Buick truck.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

This is a picture from last fall. 

 

 Ah! that looks much better, keep it up. Soon you will be  ☺️

[Larry Schramm]

3 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 Ah! that looks much better, keep it up. Soon you will be  ☺️

 

Here are some updated pictures from today.  You can see that the valve train is in, exhaust system, Intake maniford, carb, new chain except master link, etc...  It is getting there.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[nick8086]

😙 Most cars need work.. Just FYI..

[zdillinger]

I don't have actual numbers on this, but I'd be willing to bet that the "work in progress" model represents a vast majority of restoration projects for "regular" guys, i.e. those that can't drop a car off at a restorer and write a six figure check.

Edited July 21, 2022 by zdillinger (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

It didn't take me long to figure out the fixer uppers.

 

The mechanics drove the reliable cars that showed up all the time and went anywhere. But had the 20 footer paint job and no inner door trim panels.

 

The body shop guys drove the bright shiny car that had usually taken three spray jobs to get right. They had a puddle of water under the radiator and needed a jump when it was time to go home. Oh, they also puff out the crankcase breather pipe.

 

The real heavy classic stuff with patina and ran modestly well were inherited from their father.

 

Pretty much defines the average car ... that makes up 90% of the hobby. The other 5% are the exceptions.

[Buffalowed Bill]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:34 PM, hidden_hunter said:

It seems to be a lot more common in the US having shops do the work compared to here 

 

What I’ll never understand is people having shops do the work and then make it sound like they personally did it - each to their own I guess 

I can't speak to the second part of your comment, but to the first part-it may not seem important how a car is saved/restored or by whom, but it's all part of the car's history. For me it's all about the car. The owners age and skill level is the great equalizer when it comes to preserving an iconic vehicle. For some of us who have done it both ways, we are just running out of time. Only if we make the effort now will anyone know or care about who did the work. Regardless the car will live on because of what was done to it. The story is that additional level of interest that so many of us love. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

I am not the smartest car guy that knows everything about a vehicle including all of the nuances of restoration, BUT I am not afraid to ask when stalled.  Thankfully there are people out there that are a great help.  I thank them.

 

On the other hand anytime someone asks me for help where I have the knowledge and talent to answer their question I am always happy to help them.   I look at this as paying it forward for those that helped me and also to help keep the knowledge base being passed on to the next generation.  IMO, just common sense.

[Tonz]

Personally I dislike the word "patina", and worse still I cringe at fake patina paintwork.

My 26 Chrysler is not being restored, but as you described being "fixed up".

As a retirement project my budget is fairly limited to essentials like new tyres, windscreen, suspension, brakes,radiator, engine (all the stuff you can't see). Thus the $100 Dulux Birch Green duco.

I reckon that being the fourth owner of this 100yo car, the fifth owner can splurge $15k+ for the new ragtop, upholstery, showroom paintwork and chrome.

Btw, in AU, these old cars restored often only sell for between $20k and $30k so there is no profit here.

The work that I am doing is good quality and will ensure the car's survival years after I'm gone🤔

[hidden_hunter]

38 minutes ago, Tonz said:

Btw, in AU, these old cars restored often only sell for between $20k and $30k so there is no profit here.

The work that I am doing is good quality and will ensure the car's survival years after I'm gone🤔

I suspect we have very few people paying shops here because our labour has been so expensive for so long 

[TAKerry]

Jack, I like your philosophy. One exception being the line about hiring out skills. I have restored a few cars, and trying to get one done now so I can get the next started. At times I enjoy working on them more than driving. I am just shy of 60 and have been working with my hands since I was 13, so most of the skilset kinda comes natural to me. My take on hiring out. I was in the family construction business. I enjoyed building high end furniture in the evening and weekends as a hobby. One person got word and I was making a piece to sell. Then another, then another. It became a profitable side business but thats exactly what it was. Another job. My hobby was no longer fun. I have had more than a few fellows that have seen my work I have done to my cars and have asked me to do something for them, a paint job, int. or the such. I have no intention of doing it for pay (at this time in my life anyway) as I know the fun of that will be gone too. Maybe someday when I slow down, but for now I rebuild to the level of perfection that suits myself.